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View Full Version : so heres what happens when you choke on a gig.



stevedenver
Jun-17-2018, 9:04am
<Removed by Moderator per OP's request>

pros and amateurs .......

AlanN
Jun-17-2018, 9:22am
What happened? I could only last 7 seconds on this.

Mark Wilson
Jun-17-2018, 10:08am
What happened? I could only last 7 seconds on this.
+1

Off the rails at 1:38 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0QiZoXUL40)

Steve Ostrander
Jun-17-2018, 10:26am
Hey, that dude has a Weber . . . Grill . . . .

Dale Ludewig
Jun-17-2018, 11:24am
I was hoping someone was going to pickup the saxophone, just to round things out.

AlanN
Jun-17-2018, 11:25am
Shoot, I knew I shouldn't have looked...

JL277z
Jun-17-2018, 11:56am
<Removed by Moderator per OP's request>

Y'all's expectations are too high. :)

At least that band has a sign-language interpreter for the hard of hearing, unlike most bands (so people can 'see' the lyrics, which is presumably important for gospel music).

Curiously, the OP's video's guest band, "MicroGrass", seems to do considerably better in this other video which has fewer musicians, better vocals, a different/better bass guitar, and overall better sound - this sounds pretty good to me anyway:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U35O-aowICI
(or direct link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U35O-aowICI))


Re a different video:


... Off the rails at 1:38 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0QiZoXUL40)

Quick recovery though. :mandosmiley: That's the important thing.

Bertram Henze
Jun-17-2018, 12:22pm
This not being my genre *, I noticed that...
-there is nothing really convincing from the start, ambiguous rhythm (some have the beat on 1 & 3, some on 2 & 4), the singer's voice is on the strangled side...
- whatever happens at 1:38, the audience is none the wiser because the rhythm is stubbornly kept running (that's what I call professional)
- we don't get to see the best part, which is the musicians' talk among themselves afterwards.

(*) but I have a Weber grill, so that might change everything

Dale Ludewig
Jun-17-2018, 12:44pm
Bertram, the 1:38 reference is to the link in Mark's post, a different video. In that one, the group is pretty darn good all in all. And it is a quick recovery. We've all been there and done that.

MikeEdgerton
Jun-17-2018, 12:50pm
I'm not sure I need to be reminded. :cool:

Mandobar
Jun-17-2018, 12:51pm
Lots of bands I’ve seen sound like this. While I aspire to something a little higher some folks seem to think this is acceptable. Perhaps it is.

Bertram Henze
Jun-17-2018, 12:51pm
Bertram, the 1:38 reference is to the link in Mark's post, a different video.

Ah, OK, that is is really a quick recovery.

However, it is also approx. the time into the OP's video when everybody seems to be at a loss who is supposed to do what. Singing stops, no solo, just awkward rhythm.
Maybe we're on to something - is 1:38 the magic time musicians' concentration is best before?

Dale Ludewig
Jun-17-2018, 2:12pm
Actually in the OP's video, I think you could pick any moment. Perhaps the crowd was intimidating. The sheer numbers. I've been there too. I play best with my friends in the kitchen, or late at night at a bluegrass festival when the spirits have been flowing and channeled.

Teak
Jun-17-2018, 3:23pm
<Removed by Moderator per OP's request>

Are you the mandolin player? I saw nothing wrong with the mandolin solo; but was wondering what you are using for an in ear monitor.

My trio played for a "walkathon" fund raiser on Friday, one hour. Most people were at different booths playing games or walking around, of course. Some were sitting and talking. We had to play up on a stage, which I don't care for, and got only scattered applause. Last year we were ground level and closer to the sitters, thus, easier to engage them between songs.

I was a bit bummed out afterwards, probably like you were. It has mostly to do with expectations; getting the sound right in a noisy situation takes practice and experience. I am now looking at in ear monitor choices since part of my problem is trying to sing without hearing how I sound.

Anyway, it is hard to put what one considers to be a "choke" out there for others to criticize, but I didn't see any tomatoes being tossed so I suspect the crowd has mostly forgotten about it. :D

stevedenver
Jun-17-2018, 3:37pm
yup


those were straight earplugs, which helped me to hear myself on the harmonies.

stevedenver
Jun-18-2018, 11:13am
Thanks mike

journeybear
Jun-18-2018, 4:31pm
Dang! Wish I'd tuned in soon enough. Now I'm not sure whether or not to share one of my (many) examples of, ah, substandard playing. :confused:

If you's like to sens me a link so I can assuage my curiosity, I promise it will not go further.

Teak
Jun-18-2018, 5:25pm
Dang! Wish I'd tuned in soon enough. Now I'm not sure whether or not to share one of my (many) examples of, ah, substandard playing. :confused:

If you's like to sens me a link so I can assuage my curiosity, I promise it will not go further.

No, journeybear. Trust us. You don't really want this. ;)

ToyonPete
Jun-18-2018, 10:44pm
Dang! Wish I'd tuned in soon enough. Now I'm not sure whether or not to share one of my (many) examples of, ah, substandard playing. :confused:

I saw the original and I'd love to hear the rest of the story. Maybe Steve will fill us in. He mentioned pros and amateurs. It looked like a large venue and large crowd like you'd have for a big name act. Some of the musicians were from Steve's band I think. My sense was they couldn't hear each other on stage. Steve did a good job under tough circumstances. The crowd was diggin' it, apparently not noticing any challenges on the stage!

I've had moments like that when I thought I was just awful and then ask around and no one noticed. We're often our own worst critics!

Ivan Kelsall
Jun-19-2018, 3:25am
I think that the band in Mark Wilson's post is pretty good - 'New Old Timey' - but that's no Weber mandolin,unless it's been highly modified inc.removing the Weber name,
Ivan

Bertram Henze
Jun-19-2018, 5:17am
Dang! Wish I'd tuned in soon enough

Nothing you missed out on, especially nothing spectacular - and I think that is indeed the main problem. The band choked on that piece of music like a rattlesnake trying to swallow a cow: slowly and excruciatingly.

vetus scotia
Jun-19-2018, 7:02am
I think that the band in Mark Wilson's post is pretty good - 'New Old Timey' - but that's no Weber mandolin,unless it's been highly modified inc.removing the Weber name,
Ivan

From the YouTube video: "Mason's Apron (Big Fat Gap, Mandolin Orange, Hammer No More the Fingers)
I've Been All Around This World
Shakori Hills Grassroots Festival of Music & Dance"

The mandolin he is playing in the video leads down quite the rabbit hole of old Cafe threads....

AlanN
Jun-19-2018, 7:39am
(Big Fat Gap, Mandolin Orange, Hammer No More the Fingers)


Dey's all local bands, pickers from around here. Is the mandolin picker in that video the guy from Mandolin Orange?

vetus scotia
Jun-19-2018, 7:51am
Yep.

stevedenver
Jun-19-2018, 12:20pm
BTW

The REAL band is multi platinum selling.
We are not. LOL. ......it IS a "convenient amalgamation" of players with certain abilities....nothing more or less.......


Concert was a sell out. 5000 in the audience as I understand it.
I have to say, it reminded me of mountaineering, when you turn on a ledge and it dawns upon you that can spit down 1000 ft between your legs.....it gets your attention.

Ive never played to more than a hundred or two, tops.


I simply posted as a bit of humor and self deprecation about MY choking, which has been a topic on the forum from time to time, especially at jams.

The song is a simple I-IV-V with a minor, typical BG style. Which is why we were asked to sing vocal backup. our harmonies are actually pretty good, but, I couldn't hear any of us on the recording, but that's a digression.

Frankly, I thought everyone else did great.

fwiw, I had worked out a pretty decent melody based break, and ended up, as a result of arenaline pump and wishing to try a more 'driving' type break, chose to try doing some 'foggy mtn' double stops and some off the cuff runs. It was a bit difficult to hear, which is why I kept my earplugs in, as, I could hear my own harmonies over the bassist. My timing issue was, my fault, possibly simple tension. No excuses. I caught the groove half way through, imho.

The crowd was more than gracious when I finished. They cheered and hooted. One lovely blonde, who I had been sitting next to, when I came back to my spot, decided I was worthy of a couple of beers and my wife a large glass of rose'.....

It has been enlightening for me to see the responses thus far. Frankly the main band, and the front man is, imho, brilliant. But, that's me. I see for others, it aint no part a'nuthin'. I get that too.

I asked Mike that the video be removed because I believed, at the time I posted, our videographer had obtained the necessary permission. I can say that since press passes were issued, etc., this wasn't a bootleg, unauthorized, to my understanding.

That later became unclear due to subsequent communications.

So, I erred on the side of caution, and asked that it be removed until I hear further re permission. I asked Mike to help out, and he obliged.

all the best,
steve

Liadan
Jun-19-2018, 2:39pm
Worst choke I experienced during a gig - played a show one time where we ended up deciding to use a drum track (bad idea from the start). I was on electric bass. The acoustics in the place were terrible and we were all having a hard time hearing that track. Our singer came in at the totally wrong place, and because of a time change coming up, we had to just hang her out to dry when that happened. Me and the 2 guitarists just kept looking at each other like, what are we going to do?! Moral of the story: using a drum track is a terrible idea.

Teak
Jun-20-2018, 6:47am
My worst gig, to date, happened two years ago. Me and a piano player had been playing without any amplification up to that point. She was asked to provide free music at a cancer treatment fund raiser in a church basement. Yup, tile floor, low ceiling, concrete walls. There was one mic on a mic stand.

I was trying to mic both the mandolin and my voice which means you hold the mandolin way up high when playing a break. Well, in trying to adjust the mic downward a little bit, the clamp broke. What to do? I wound the mic cord around the boom and let it dangle straight downwards. Thus, I had to bend over to sing into it and still try to maintain my composure. I didn't. I messed up nearly every solo and ended my portion of the set early.

Lesson learned? Do not depend upon the "house" to provide adequate equipment. I bought my own Carvin PA, mic stand, mics (x2), and now will either not use the house or else send my PA's signal to the house after I set the mix on my PA. Life is too short to either give up on playing out (that was one option) or trust in someone else's equipment.

stevedenver
Jun-21-2018, 8:09am
Dang! Wish I'd tuned in soon enough. Now I'm not sure whether or not to share one of my (many) examples of, ah, substandard playing. :confused:

If you's like to sens me a link so I can assuage my curiosity, I promise it will not go further.

Done

journeybear
Jun-22-2018, 8:45am
Thanks for sending me the link so I could see what all the fuss was about and join the converstion. Also, as a longtime (and apparently dedicated) blunderer, I thought my expertise in the area might be useful. ;)

I didn't hear anything terrible, other than a somewhat rocky start. You may not have played what you had intended or hoped for, but the solo was solid and fit in well. There were worse aspects at play, particularly the mix, which had the bass singer and guitarist too high, and the overall blend rough.

A little sef-deprecating humor is always fine and welcome, even encouraged - don't want to get above your raising, as the song goes - but there's no need to beat yourself up. This time, anyway. ;) Thanks for sharing. Perhaps a thread could be started in which people may offer examples of meandering mandolinning, for humorous and instructive purposes. :mandosmiley: I'm sure many of us have plenty to offer along these lines. :grin:

MikeEdgerton
Jun-22-2018, 9:26am
I have more than enough videos of me screwing up on stage. A few weeks ago I started a break, changed my mind and was standing there striking drone strings (actually half of the double stops I was trying to play) until I could catch up with myself. Amazingly enough it didn't sound too awful. Screwing up just keeps getting easier for me. It's developing into an art form.

JL277z
Jun-22-2018, 10:20am
... Screwing up just keeps getting easier for me. It's developing into an art form.

Hey that's one of my specialties too. ;) :grin: You know what 'they' say, half the battle in any art is just figuring out ways to cover up one's mistakes. :))

But back to the original topic, I'd agree with others who said that it seemed like the band members couldn't hear each other (or even their own instruments/voices).

Seems to me that any problems noted were probably caused by technological issues with the amplification and monitors etc in such a large venue, rather than a musical-ability issue.

Kinda hard to make stuff sound right when one has to rely on pure muscle memory only, when unable to hear anything on a stage that has lousy sound. "Been there, done that", long time ago, no video record of it though.

In the OP's video, as I remember it from when I saw it a few days ago, the live audience seemed happy and enjoying the music, and that's really all that matters anyway. :)

journeybear
Jun-22-2018, 2:15pm
Screwing up just keeps getting easier for me. It's developing into an art form.

It sure does, and is. And I actually prefer hearing someone mess up - well, briefly, with a quick recovery - than play absolutely flawlessly, because for the most part, other than if you are listening to an extraordinarily accomplished musician, it means the performer is either playing it safe or sticking to some tried-and true, over-practiced routine, rather than engaging in making a foray into unexplored territory, that is, being innovative. I will grant that there are benefits to practicing your part in order to achieve a level of expertise, but you don't want to fall into the pitfalls of precision to the extent that your playing becomes rote.

I played in a live jam/variety show last night, and was having an awful time getting going. This was with some guys I've played with a bunch of times, one of whom I'd had a band with that broke up about three years ago. So though I knew the material - except for one song, which I mostly laid out on - I was pretty rusty. I had to find time to run each song through my mind in the brief moments between songs so I could at least hit the ground running. Still, I was messing up way more than I'd like to have been, even on simple songs. When a song came up that I knew my participation would be unneeded, I took a quick break, got a beer, and returned for the next one. That helped immeasurably. I got the inner critic to shut up a bit, got a little looser, and bolder, and things got a whole lot better. The second set (after the second beer ;) ) was even better. Well, it also helped that the female singer from the old band came on board, and we were on surer ground. But sometimes you just have to cut yourself a break and let the chips fall where they may. :mandosmiley:

journeybear
Jun-22-2018, 2:42pm
Here's what I mean. This is the last song of the night, by which time I should have been at my peak. :whistling: This is a Tom Waits tune we've revved up a bit. I know this inside and out. Still, I got a little off track toward the end of the first pass. I jumped right in for the second round - since you automatically get to start with a clean slate ;) - ending with what I often do when I'm a bit unsure - go the other way, fast and furious. :mandosmiley: If it's all a blur, they can't tell what's going on for sure. :cool: Right? ;)