View Full Version : Lyon & Healy Style B on Reverb
I saw this listed on Reverb:
https://reverb.com/item/12682729-lyon-and-healy-washburn-style-b-mandolin
The seller says it's all original, save the bridge, but the neck doesn't look like other Style B necks I've seen (the shape, the binding, no extension). Did L&H styles A-C vary that much over the years?
Larry S Sherman
Jun-02-2018, 10:22am
That peghead looks totally wrong.
168200
rcc56
Jun-02-2018, 10:34am
All of the style B's I have seen had the "art-deco" peghead. I have seen 3 different peghead shapes on model C's, but none of them looked like the Reverb mandolin. The very earliest B's I have seen had a larger neck profile than those seen on most L & H's.
My guess is that the neck was either re-worked or replaced before the war. The peghead shape is more similar to Gibson than to any L & H I have seen, but I do not believe it to be a Gibson neck either.
The pictures are a bit fuzzy and dark for me to be able to say any more.
mrmando
Jun-02-2018, 6:26pm
That has obviously been re-necked ... it does look like someone was going for a Gibson-type look to the peghead.
Hubert's book does claim that the "stairstep" headstock found on the earliest Style C's was also used for Style B's from the same period. Here is a photo of a Style B with a stairstep headstock: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/40180621653693369/
Norman Blake's famous Style B also had the stairstep headstock.
The deco headstock is a middle-period design. The plain headstock found on style C's after 1925 is not found on Style B's because that's when the Style B was discontinued. The Reverb instrument has what Hubert calls the "1925 label," so it must be one of the last Style B's produced.
For that reason, and since the Reverb instrument has a serial number of 1499, I'll hazard a guess that it's later in the run and probably had a deco headstock originally.
Apparently, what I have always called the art-deco headstock is now being called the stairstep headstock.
So I will correct my statement above to reflect current terminology: All the B's I have ever seen had the stairstep headstock.
I have seen three styles on C's-- the earliest had stairsteps. The stairstep was in use on the C through at least serial number 420. These were subsequently replaced by the deco headstock. The plain head came last. I will add that I have seen both long and short scales used on the C's. Later models had the short scale.
Norman's current B is not the same mandolin that was used on his instructional video. The one in that video was a very early mandolin with a 2 digit serial number and the chunkier neck profile. He traded that one off many years ago.
His current B has a 3 digit number and the more common slimmer neck profile that is generally associated with L & H mandolins. It is set up with Stew mac #147 fret wire, and has the knee rest in the side. If he hasn't since changed it, it has an ivory saddle in the bridge which appears to be factory original. I know the mandolin very well because I was the previous owner. I purchased it from Gruhn's old store on Broadway around 1990 for about $1200. It is a great instrument.
It was a lot more fun in those days; the instruments were a lot cheaper. But L & H B's and C's are still a lot of mandolin for the money. So are the plainer Gibson oval holes.
I will note that the Reverb listing has been edited to say that the neck and fingerboard ". . . could possibly be replacements . . ."
Jim Garber
Jun-02-2018, 9:19pm
Someone (maybe the OP) must have contacted the seller because the description now says:
I've been informed that the neck and finger board on this could possibly be replacements although the work was very well done and done a very long time ago and I do believe the bridge to be a replacement as well although also very old.
I agree that it probably is a later one esp since the label says Washburn vs. earlier saying Lyon & Healy.
168216
1499 may be the highest serial number I have seen on a B. I have seen C's with numbers in the 2000's.
I will add that the consistency of L & H carved mandolins is impressive. I've seen quite a few of them over the years, and have rarely come across a weak one.
mrmando
Jun-02-2018, 9:37pm
Well, the tale I got from the Reverb seller was that this mandolin has a different neck because it was made to be sold by a department store, but I pointed out several problems with that theory.
rcc56
Jun-02-2018, 10:04pm
I have seen a C with a Ditson label.
I have not seen an L & H with that peghead shape, nor have I seen one with a MOP inlay in the head. I have only seen a flat "button" or "bottom" on the neck heel on the very early mandolins with the larger neck profile. At any rate, an in-hand inspection would be required to say much more about the origin of the neck.
It might be a pretty good mandolin, though . . .
ollaimh
Jun-03-2018, 3:57pm
nice sound on the video, but the head stock is too weird for those dollars. i would love to own a lyon healy someday just for fun. there was a style c on ebay a while back that went at full auction for 1850 ish usd. that seemed good to me, but i was a bit broke at the time.
Roger Adams
Jun-03-2018, 5:58pm
I used to collect Winchester rifles. I recall a quote from Col. Townsend Whelen that , "Only accurate rifles are interesting." Of course, I don't know a thing about L&H Mandolins, but that mandolin sounds pretty good! So what would be a fair price point for this instrument? Not buying, just curious! :)
rcc56
Jun-04-2018, 12:05am
We don't see many B's-- they only made them for a few years. When I see them, the asking prices usually seem to be $2500 to $3000 if they are in original condition, depending on who's selling it and how much wear is present.
I'll refrain from debating about a "correct" price for this particular instrument, especially without having looked it over in person.
The seller has a 7 day return policy. That's a considerably more relaxed policy than we usually see.
mrmando
Jun-04-2018, 12:56am
I have seen a C with a Ditson label.
Check out this Style A with a sunburst finish and a Regal label:
https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?136064-Curious-sunburst-Lyon-amp-Healy-Style-A-with-Regal-label
The presence of a standard mid-'20s Lyon & Healy/Washburn label in this Style B, with a high serial number, is one feature that argues against it being a department store special.
Jim Garber
Jun-04-2018, 6:27am
1499 may be the highest serial number I have seen on a B. I have seen C's with numbers in the 2000's.
I will add that the consistency of L & H carved mandolins is impressive. I've seen quite a few of them over the years, and have rarely come across a weak one.
Yes, consistency in manufacture but inconsistency in serial numbering. L&H restarted numbering on these a few times probably intending to confuse us future nerds. :)