F Styles uncomfortable?

[Pittsburgh Bill]

Are there others that find F Style mandolins uncomfortable to hold and handle or is it just me? I have owned only one, but have played many F styles, and have found that they do not rest well for me when playing from a setting position. I also suspect that the points, scroll, and ornately carved headstocks are more vulnerable to damage.
Perhaps this is just part of my eccentricities. I have many.

[CarlM]

That is the reason why Gibson built the famous A-5 Loar Mandolin for Mrs. Griffith.

[DavidKOS]

Are there others that find F Style mandolins uncomfortable to hold and handle or is it just me? I have owned only one, but have played many F styles, and have found that they do not rest well for me when playing from a setting position. I also suspect that the points, scroll, and ornately carved headstocks are more vulnerable to damage.
Perhaps this is just part of my eccentricities. I have many.

You are not alone, although we are not common. I have never bonded with those long-scale high string tension archtop instruments and prefer lightly strung short scale Italian/European style instruments.

But like I say, we are a minority.

[dadsaster]

Joe Walsh seems to only play A style mandolins.

[BrianWilliam]

My points are chipped :)

[Willie Poole]

When I sit down to play I raise the headstock up just a bit so the points don`t dig into my leg, and I also find that is a nice way to hold the mandolin even when standing...Buzz Busby used to raise it up by his ear and play it but he never owned an f model either...

Willie

[LastMohican]

I am completely comfortable with my playing position while sitting but I struggle mightily with trying to play while standing and strapped up. I just can't figure it out. I know a contributing factor for this is that I'm on the rotund side!!

[Dave Sheets]

I've had this happen with guitars, I had a really nice Gibson ES-335 that sounded great, but I have never been physically comfortable playing it. I just didn't fit my body. A-body mandos are great for me, teles are effortless...

[jesserules]

168169

Another Buzz Busby style option. See the cover of the recently released John Duffey tribute album for the same positioning of an F style.

[Bill Kammerzell]

I am completely comfortable with my playing position while sitting but I struggle mightily with trying to play while standing and strapped up. I just can't figure it out. I know a contributing factor for this is that I'm on the rotund side!!

David Grisman holds his mandolin higher than anyone I've seen in some time. Chest high, not quite at his shoulders, but still pretty high. At least that was where he held it when I saw him with Del McCoury at Ryman, in Nashville. I need to look at a video from when he was the younger, skinny, pre-rotund Grisman, to see where he held it then. I was wondering if his girth had anything to do with his positioning when playing.

Well I just took a look at a clip of Grisman with Stephane Grapelli and he held his mandolin much lower. Waist high.

[Mandobar]

I prefer A’s for the same reason. I have never found a strap that has made an F style as comfortable to play as an A.

[Pittsburgh Bill]

I am completely comfortable with my playing position while sitting but I struggle mightily with trying to play while standing and strapped up. I just can't figure it out. I know a contributing factor for this is that I'm on the rotund side!!

I used to be rounder but loosing weight has not increased my comfort level playing a F style. I continued to find an A style more comfortable to play and handle seated or standing but much more noticeable while seated.

[pops1]

While I have owned an F years ago, it was A's before and after for me.

[Andy Miller]

At last year's Marshall Mandolin Summit, Mike Marshall advised the F-players to put their left foot on a footrest like a classical guitarist so the leg is elevated for the mandolin to rest on. Or to do like Chris Thile and use your right foot as a footrest for your left! Apparently that's how the instrument was designed to be held, way back when people got together in large groups and sat up straight and played lots of mandolins together.

[Roger Moss]

David Grisman holds his mandolin higher than anyone I've seen in some time. Chest high, not quite at his shoulders, but still pretty high...I was wondering if his girth had anything to do with his positioning when playing.


I've always held instruments pretty high when playing (I've always played seated). Now that I'm more...err...physically robust, I play with my mando up around diaphragm high with it (by necessity) looking up at me.Totally comfortable to me that way now.

[T.D.Nydn]

I'm on the side for the F model,,I don't have any problems sitting or standing,as a matter of fact,I kind of love them....

[soliver]

I'm an A fan myself, not necessarily just for comfort, but I've played very few F's that I liked, 1 of which was a Gil... if I can't afford a Collings, I definitely can't afford Gil.

Tim O'Brien,... just sayin' :grin:

[Bob Clark]

I'm an 'A' or two-point player, or an A/N flat-top. I know that F's have their fans and that's great, but overall they just don't do it for me. I like that we have multiple styles to select from.

[renoyd]

I prefer A’s as well.

[yankees1]

I find no difference in playing a F or an A as far as comfort. Although I stand and sit while playing I prefer sitting.

[Upis Land]

When I first learned on a A, and tried the F, it was not comfortable; but then I spent more time with an F, made adjustments, and now like the F better.

What I have found is that the F wants to balance about 4 inches to the left on the lap, compared to the A (while seated). So it makes sense that people might find one or the other more comfortable. I have come to appreciate utilizing the points to keep the instrument stable in my lap.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I use a strap all the time,sitting or standing. I have the mandolin so that the lower point,is above my belt height,so that there's no chance of the buckle scratching the back. It is a tad higher than most players seem to use,but it suits me fine,& i'm a little closer to all the notes i'm playing,
Ivan

[dhergert]

... so that there's no chance of the buckle scratching the back. ...

Hmmm, I wish I still had to worry about that. Over the last 20 years or so, I seem to have grown in my mid section enough that my belt buckle is never a problem anymore. I remember having to wrap a square of leather over the belt buckle. Things change.

I also wear the strap all the time, sitting or standing. And for me, the strap goes over my neck and right shoulder, pretty solidly positioning the mandolin. When sitting the points of my F-style mandolins seem to all be in the right place, and the scroll provides a nicely balanced place to anchor the strap.

I also wear the strap over my neck and right shoulder with my other main playing instruments, although I have to sit while playing my more heavy banjos or my Dobro, due to balance and lower back issues. Happily, my classic banjo is light enough for me to stand with.

[Mark Miller]

I haven’t played an F much, partly because when I’ve tried, the neck just wants to drop so bad I have to hold it up and my left hand becomes captive to that. I understand you can lock it into position in your lap but that doesn’t work standing up (for me). My A just stays at the angle I put it.

[Teak]

Add me to the 'A' list. I don't like that huge chunk of excess wood (the scroll) getting in between me and the fretboard. An A is so nice and symmetrical. I also like the two-point shape which can be symmetrical or slightly asymmetrical (e.g., Sorensen Sprite).

But that chunk of wood = ugly.

[Roger Adams]

I can not warm up to the A style. It will not "stay put" when playing seated for me. Feels like a football! I find no difference between the two when standing and playing.

[itstooloudMike]

I have both an A-style and an F-style. Before I got the F-style, I thought I would like the way it hangs on a strap better, because of the scroll. With my A-style (Weber Bitteroot), I tie a leather strip around the base of the neck, under the extension, and attach my strap to the leather strip. It actually hangs very nicely, and feels balanced. My F-style (Summit) actually feels less balanced, and seems more "neck heavy". I don't like the headstock diving when I let go of the neck, which only happens on the F-style. I think it has more to do with the headstock mass than anything else. The typical F-style headstock must weigh significantly more that a typical "snake-head" type headstock. So, I actually feel more comfortable playing my A-style, which I would not have predicted. But in the end, I play my F-style more often. The look just fits the bluegrass music. That said, I'm not getting rid of my A-style anytime soon.

[Bob Clark]

I can think of a number of different instruments that don't have nearly the heterogeneity of styles that mandolin-family instruments offer. Lucky for us that we have all this to choose from.

There really are no right or wrong answers here. The choices are all good, depending on the indivuals' preference, and perhaps genre of music. The world of mandolins sure has a lot to offer and we are each lucky to have found these instruments. I count myself lucky, that's for sure.

These choices also give us a lot to debate here on the Cafe. Again, lucky us.

[Russ Jordan]

..........." heterogeneity of styles".........

whew, I bet you don't hear "heterogeniety" over on the banjo forums! (g)

[Teak]

I have both an A-style and an F-style. Before I got the F-style, I thought I would like the way it hangs on a strap better, because of the scroll. With my A-style (Weber Bitteroot), I tie a leather strip around the base of the neck, under the extension, and attach my strap to the leather strip. It actually hangs very nicely, and feels balanced.

Exactly the same way I strapped up my A and it hangs perfectly. Even seated, one can hang the mandolin and not have to worry about having points that dig into the legs. :mandosmiley:

[mandolin breeze]

Yes, I often find F styles uncomfortable . . . especially under my left butt cheek where my wallet sits . . . ouch!

[Timbofood]

As long as I get to play, I don’t much care. The talking about it takes more effort that playing.

[mandopops]

I have both A & F body style Mandolins. Love them both. I played for many years before I warmed up the the F style.
I have played both seated & standing. I don't find either body style "Uncomfortable". Now, I tend to keep straps on even when seated. It just evolved over time. With the F style sitting, I like the lower body point as a leg rest.
My aesthetic observation is, I think A's "look" better played while seated & F's "look" better played while standing.
Joe B

[pheffernan]

I prefer A’s for the same reason. I have never found a strap that has made an F style as comfortable to play as an A.

Has anyone? I was gifted a beautiful hand-tooled leather strap to go on my F5, and I find myself wrestling with it a lot more than the Long Hollow Softies I use on my A-styles. Similarly, I struggled with braided straps in the past. I'd be curious if anyone has found a better solution.

[Steve Sorensen]

You realize that you do have other options (http://https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?134837-The-new-Sorensen-Stealth&highlight=Sorensen+Stealth) . . .

:cool: Steve

[Mark Wilson]

I have only owned A5s. I like them plenty but only prefer them for the price.
IMO, if F-style mandolins were half the price of comparable A styles there would be no viable market for A style mandolins.

[Phil Goodson]

I must admit that if I had no sight, I'd never buy an F style. But.... I LOVE the beautiful curves of the F style.

I agree with Steve; a nicely designed 2-point is also a thing of beauty!!!!:)

[pops1]

No F/A content.

As a few others have said, but here it is again. If you stand at all, wearing a strap while seated means keeping your instrument in the same playing position for either. I always use a strap while standing or sitting.

[Roger Moss]

Yes, I often find F styles uncomfortable . . . especially under my left butt cheek where my wallet sits . . . ouch!

How can you play with your mandolin back there?

[Teak]

How can you play with your mandolin back there?

When he does it that way, he's providing the percussion. :))

[Timbofood]

When he does it that way, he's providing the percussion. :))

Is that where the breeze comes in?

[George R. Lane]

Hmmm, I wish I still had to worry about that. Over the last 20 years or so, I seem to have grown in my mid section enough that my belt buckle is never a problem anymore. I remember having to wrap a square of leather over the belt buckle. Things change.


I took care of that problem and now I wear suspenders.:grin:

[JeffD]

My favorite, though, is the two pointer. Especially an asymmetrical two pointer.

[Jim Nollman]

One issue seems missing from this discussion. F hole mandolins focus sound 4-6 feet in front of the instrument. My own F hole mandolin is strapped on to me at about waist high because that's most comfortable. But when I perform in a string band quartet, I often bring the instrument up to chest high, just to hear my own playing better. It seems to be a rather common phenomenon among mandolin performers.

[Cochiti Don]

I forget who it was that helped me at the mandolin store , Brian?, anyway I bought a nice strap from him when I bought my MTO. He strung the neck end in between the top two and bottom two pegs on the head. It made it sometimes awkward to tune but it was very well balanced. When I get my f style soon, I’m going to strap it the same way and to heck with what everyone else thinks.

[Mark Gunter]

I had two F styles, both cheap instruments (pressed top Ibanez, and Eastman 315), and when I first started, it was important to me for some reason to have the look of an F style. Now, I only have a couple A styles, a Washburn and a Collings, and I like them way better than either of the F's I had.

+1 for using a strap both sitting and standing.

I run the straps under the fingerboard extension and around the heel. On the F's I used the traditional "strap hanger" approach. Was happy with all of that, and I don't think I'd be happy tying a strap anywhere near the headstock. Used to do that on guitars, don't like it. I'll put a button in a heel before I do that.

[Mark Gunter]

I've had this happen with guitars, I had a really nice Gibson ES-335 that sounded great, but I have never been physically comfortable playing it. I just didn't fit my body. A-body mandos are great for me, teles are effortless...

Are you still on the subject of sitting, or was it not comfortable either way, sitting or standing?

I'm just curious if it was sitting, do you rest the waist of a guitar on your right leg? I used to do that, and I know very well that most folk musicians do that (folk used widely here, basically non-classical), but a few years back I began resting the waist of a guitar on my right leg, in the classical position, and find it way more comfortable for different body styles. Took a while to get used to it, but IMO well worth it. I can't play a guitar on my right leg anymore, puts my body in a weird position.

[Randi Gormley]

I've tried out a variety of F styles just to hear them and I've only found one (a 1913 Gibson F oval hole) that didn't immediately feel like it was going to take a header off my left hand onto the floor. I'm probably just unlucky, but I find the Fs awkward and badly balanced on my lap -- I play seated 99 percent of the time. I think they're lovely looking instruments, but they've just never been comfortable to me.

[Roger Moss]

Are you still on the subject of sitting, or was it not comfortable either way, sitting or standing?

I'm just curious if it was sitting, do you rest the waist of a guitar on your right leg? I used to do that, and I know very well that most folk musicians do that (folk used widely here, basically non-classical), but a few years back I began resting the waist of a guitar on my right leg, in the classical position, and find it way more comfortable for different body styles. Took a while to get used to it, but IMO well worth it. I can't play a guitar on my right leg anymore, puts my body in a weird position.

I don't understand what you mean. You seem to be saying that you switched from resting the guitar on your right leg to resting it on your right leg. Am I wrong?

[Kevin Stueve]

I think he meant he went from right leg to left leg which is the classical guitar approach

[Mark Gunter]

Yep, it was a senior lapse or something when I wrote from right to right. I rest the waist of a guitar on my left leg when seated. After I changed to that technique, I found it a bit awkward to sit in a jam circle being the only guitarist needing more room on the left side - but ergonomically, I think it works better for the human body - which is probably why that was the classical way.