moving sound post = big difference

[dan in va]

There's a nifty store in my hometown of Staunton VA, by the name of Fretwell's. It changed ownership not long ago (Jerry knows basses quite well), which gave me pause because my plywood upright needed a set up after getting a new modified bridge and neck reshaping in a different shop. The E string lost too much volume after the sound post was reset...no fault of the luthier, as this is't what he does for a living, and not many luthiers will mess with an upright.

Talking with the new owner, it was obvious he knows his business in depth and is a good bass player. The thing sounds better than ever now - not losing much volume on the E and tonally in pretty good balance. i wasn't expecting too much, as the neck angle is way too shallow, and it's a little smaller than 3/4 size. He pointed out some things that i hadn't noticed and did found the best place for the sound post. i'd say he got pretty close to making chicken salad with chicken poop.

So if you're ever in Staunton and have a little time, stop by Fretwell's on Beverly Street. Travis Weaver is the owner and all the folks there seem to be to know something about strings and give good customer service. There are 15+ basses, and a variety of string instruments.

Aside from some banjos, guitars and fiddles, one of the KM-500's seemed to have the edge over the other, the Eastman scroll models and decent sounding Eastman oval A.

[DHopkins]

Are you talking fiddle or mandolin. I've never heard of a sound post in a mandolin (or was I out sick when they covered it in Mandolin 101?).

[Jess L.]

Are you talking fiddle or mandolin. I've never heard of a sound post in a mandolin (or was I out sick when they covered it in Mandolin 101?).

I believe he's talking about an upright bass:


... basses ... my plywood upright ... good bass player ... smaller than 3/4 size ... 15+ basses ...

[Willie Poole]

Dan, I wonder if he is any kin to the Weavers that at one time had, and may still have, "Weaver`s Violin Shop" here in the DC area?....They were the place to go to for bass fiddle repairs.....

JL277z, some people read the posts on here but don`t comprehend what they just read.....

Willie

[Roger Moss]

I believe he's talking about an upright bass:

I think an upright mandolin would be quite revolutionary.

[gtani7]

You'd be interested in Chuck Traeger's book, mostly about double basses, includig ideas like attaching Kevlar or Carbon fiber cloth or something to ends of soundpost (sorry it's been awhile)

https://www.amazon.com/String-Instrument-Setups-Louder-Better/dp/1495064999/

[dan in va]

WP, i'll ask if the Weavers are kin next time i'm in the store. Weaver is a pretty common name in the Shenandoah Valley.

gtani7, the Traeger book sounds interesting; will have to look it up.

RM, the upright mandolins out there interest me, but are too spendy to satisfy my curiosity.

DH, i do like the tone of a finger plucked fiddle and am interested in the concept of a 4 string nylon mandolin. Might be tempted to change fingerboards on the right project fiddle someday...have always liked the inlay of some of the Hardanger fingerboards; maybe it would be possible to go fretless with the right inlay layout.

Mandoplumb - PM reply sent.

[dhergert]

... ideas like attaching Kevlar or Carbon fiber cloth or something to ends of soundpost ...

Before I bought it, my ca 1930s Alcoa (aluminum) double bass had some welded repairs to the top around where the sound post hits the top, with the treble side bridge foot on the other side; in fact to do the welding repairs a trap door was installed in the driver-side "C". The welds were showing signs of flexing, so I was concerned about all of this.

In order to better support the top in the repaired area, I built and installed a new sound post with an attached aluminum platform with 6 wooden "feet" that spread the pressure inside against the top over a larger area, thus avoiding putting too much pressure on the welds there. It provides support for both bridge feet and for about for 4 inches both above and below the bridge. All of the sound post and feet length and tension settings are adjustable by moving washers around so there is no rattling or movement and any possible sliding is prevented by velcro pieces placed on the top strategically around the outside feet.

It almost looks like an aluminum Virzi Tone Producer and it does affect the tone of the instrument, in some nice ways. The E and A bass strings are louder and more clear, and sustain is better. And aside from the volume and tone, the welds are very stable now.

Here's what this looks like:

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Original Sound Post -- New Sound Post top ------ New Sound Post Side
167846 167847 167848

Of course most basses wouldn't be able to have this kind of thing because there's no way to build it in place, but the fact that this bass had a trap door installed gave me access to making this change inside.

That said, there are some interesting sound post technologies being sold now that will work on "normal" basses, including both fixed-length and adjustable-length carbon fiber sound posts. The fancier adjustable ones can be pretty pricey, but owner reviews are very good for them.

[dan in va]

Don - Thank you for contributing an amazing post with great pics. The system with the door knobs seems counter intuitive and it's wonderful that it works and improves the sound! Gotta love that bridge and tailpiece, too. Are those gut or synthetic strings?

[dhergert]

Don - Thank you for contributing an amazing post with great pics. The system with the door knobs seems counter intuitive and it's wonderful that it works and improves the sound! Gotta love that bridge and tailpiece, too. Are those gut or synthetic strings?

Thank you Dan.

Those are Superior Bassworks Deluxe "dirty-gut" color strings, a nylon / kevlar-core string. They are spiral-cut to help simulate the look and feel of gut and also to make them suitable for arco. They're really just fancy weedwackers, but they really sound good on this bass. I went this direction specifically because I wanted low tension strings for this bass (and for my fingers). Just about everyone I meet who is familiar with gut strings asks if they are real gut.

Here's a very unfinished snippet including this bass from a new album that we're working on... Voices and mandolin will be added this weekend.

167851

[ccravens]

Any fiddle player understands the importance of sound post placement.

[Jess L.]

Any fiddle player understands the importance of sound post placement.

Yeah I remember when I was a kid I somehow knocked over the soundpost in one of my fiddles, I managed to get it set back upright in there 'somewhere' (didn't realize at first that the location was important), thought that was good enough until I heard the sound.

Then I spent a long time of trial-and-error trying to determine just the right spot where the soundpost should go, to make my playing sound less bad. (Given my skill level at the time, I wouldn't call any of the sounds I produced then "good", but "less bad" probably covers it.)

I learned something from that though, because prior to that, I thought that the soundpost's only function was to hold up the top. :))

(Had the same views of cake - I figured a cake's only purpose was to hold up the frosting.) :grin:

Something I found today on Australian violin maker Ilja Grawert's website (http://www.grawert.com.au/the-sound-post-soul-of-the-violin/):


"It takes years and years of experience to be able to put the sound post in the right place, fitting to the inner surfaces, under the right tension at the right spot. Many inexperienced people have tried to move it themselves or fit new one without the right tools and knowledge and have destroyed the inner surfaces of their valuable and irreplaceable Master violins."

Eek. :disbelief: I hadn't known that. The "tension" thing especially, I vaguely recall just wedging the soundpost in there snug enough it wouldn't fall over again. ~:> Good thing my fiddles were cheapy rejects, and not "master violins". :)) Never did see any damage on the repositioned-soundpost fiddle, but I only had it for a few more years after that, who knows what happened to it later... I might need a new nickname, "Inadvertent Destroyer of Fiddles". ;) :))

[dhergert]

Yea, it's worth mentioning that my successful work on my Alcoa's custom sound post shouldn't be considered an endorsement to make random changes to sound posts on "normal" wooden double basses. An Alcoa bass, especially one that has had extensive top repairs like mine, is a completely different animal than a "normal" wooden double bass. And, just to be sure, I double-checked my work with the eminent aluminum double bass expert here in the USA.

Although it may just look like a big dowel, sound post makeup, length, shape and location on a wooden double bass is every bit as sensitive and critical as it is on a violin. If you have a double bass and are wanting to make it sound its best, taking it to an experienced double bass luthier to have the sound post setup properly is essential.

[Jim Garber]

From the first post:

The E string lost too much volume after the sound post was reset...no fault of the luthier, as this is't what he does for a living, and not many luthiers will mess with an upright.

Honestly, if a luthier doesn’t have a clue he/she should refer the customer to someone who does know.

BTW James Condino is a mandolin maker near Asheville,NC who also is an expert bass luthier.

[jim simpson]

I think an upright mandolin would be quite revolutionary.

Or evolutionary, lol!

[dhergert]

... BTW James Condino is a mandolin maker near Asheville,NC who also is an expert bass luthier.

And James is also the eminent expert on aluminum basses that I spoke of.

[dan in va]

A little more info on the bass work. In addition to being a very fine luthier, his primary instrument to play is the upright. Both he and John Hamlett build mando family inst, guitars and banjos and have done similar work for me...guitar neck resets, new fretboards, lots of misc stuff that involves finish touch up, and the like. All the work has been on with the same high level of craftsmanship.

The good folks at Fretwell's don't operate a full service luthiery but do bass set ups very well and some repair work. i have no doubt that i made the best choice to get the work done by my luthier and the sound post adjustment done at Fretwell's. The bass was set up otherwise and all Travis had to do was move the sound post.

It's very hard to find anyone who will work on bases in my area, and i'm not interested in driving the thing to another state. The bass is very happy now and so am i. My luthier of choice did me a great favor to do the work and a beautiful job in every way. He doesn't generally do bass work and his work on fretted instruments is no less excellent because setting a bass soundpost isn't his niche. i'm just very grateful to have such outstanding instrument folks within a 30' drive.