Flying Fourth Finger

[Sherry Cadenhead]

I'm working on holding left hand fingers closer to the fret board. My fourth finger is rebelling, however. I think it would rather be doing something else and so is out of control, just flying around every which way except when needed for a note. Anyway, I'm wondering if others have had this problem and how they may have overcome it.

[HonketyHank]

I've got it too. I would say that it has a mind of its own but for the fact that the way it waves around makes little sense.

[Dale Ludewig]

It's like a teenager.

[bennyb]

It's multitasking. It likes to dance while the other fingers are playing music. Yeah, I got it too. Every so often, I've tried a couple of things which I think might work: (1) play really slowly, and (2) play tunes with just 3 fingers(middle, ring and pinky). I think the first one actually works, but might require half hour a day(in my case) to have a lasting effect - I usually get tired of doing it after 10 minutes or so. By playing slowly, I mean really slowly, slow enough that I can control the movement in that finger. Try it and let me know if a half hour a day actually works?:)

[James Rankine]

There’s an anatomical reason thar your little finger is able to have a mind of its own. It’s not tethered to the adjacent finger in the way that the middle and ring fingersare. In other words straightening the little finger doesn’t affect the function of the ring finger on the fretboard which is some consolation. The only other finger to have independent straightening is the index. It’s obvious why this is an evolutionary advantage as finger thumb opposition is so important to manual dexterity. Why the little finger also has this function is less obvious but if you look at the way an Orangutan holds onto a branch you’ll realise that when you want to let go it is important that your little finger is able to get out of the way so it doesn’t snag on the branch. None of this helps with your problem but is a rather interesting anatomical explanation of why you can play the mandolin with your little finger doing it’s own thing. Not really a problem then until of course you want to use it and it’s not where it should be.

[James Rankine]

This is the party trick demonstration of independent index and little finger straightening. Try to separate your index ring and little fingers in turn. The bending in of the middle finger robs the ring finger of the ability to straighten. Bending the ring finger into this position doesn't have the same effect on the little finger. Everyone is different though and the ability to straighten the little finger will depend on your own anatomy and how far down the evolutionary scale you are!

167482

[HonketyHank]

And then, after standing around as useless as the referee in a pro wrestling match, it decides to snag on the e-string and produce a fortissimo left hand pizzacato snap-twang. Just to alert the nodders.

[FredK]

I've struggled with this, too. Finger-buster exercises have help a lot. That pinky is a tough little bugger to tame.

[Bill McCall]

lots of focused, slow practice is the key. Scales, arpeggios, basic stuff. Do them slowly, then go slower, making sure your fingers stay down and the pinky behaves itself. Think of violin players with good left hands, then emulate. Won't be a quick task, or at least is hasn't been for me.

And when you jam, you'll probably revert to your bad habits for quite a while as you play faster than you practice.

[DavidKOS]

and just for laughs, try playing a simple melody on one string using only finger 4.

[Sherry Cadenhead]

I've struggled with this, too. Finger-buster exercises have help a lot. That pinky is a tough little bugger to tame.

Finger buster exercises?

[ajh]

There’s an anatomical reason thar your little finger is able to have a mind of its own. It’s not tethered to the adjacent finger in the way that the middle and ring fingersare. In other words straightening the little finger doesn’t affect the function of the ring finger on the fretboard which is some consolation. The only other finger to have independent straightening is the index. It’s obvious why this is an evolutionary advantage as finger thumb opposition is so important to manual dexterity. Why the little finger also has this function is less obvious but if you look at the way an Orangutan holds onto a branch you’ll realise that when you want to let go it is important that your little finger is able to get out of the way so it doesn’t snag on the branch. None of this helps with your problem but is a rather interesting anatomical explanation of why you can play the mandolin with your little finger doing it’s own thing. Not really a problem then until of course you want to use it and it’s not where it should be.

I dunno....when I am falling off a branch, that is the last thing that has saved me a lot of times (way too many actually)...just hanging on because my pinky snagged. Sometimes that would have been a really long drop.

That said, I got around that issue by turning my hand slightly under, pointing my thumb more parallel to the neck. Then going slower and slower until I got it. Still can't go fast, but my pinky doesn't fly anymore.

[MikeZito]

I haven't seen them in many years, but magicians have excellent finger exercises that help them to master independent finger movement . . . I am willing to bet that you can find them on YouTube.

[HonketyHank]

Finger buster exercises?

Think "I am the very model of a modern major general" in Eb, for one.

[FredK]

Finger buster exercises?

Sherry, I've taken the Mike Marshall training on ArtistWorks since I started mandolin last year. He has some good exercises to strengthen each finger and help with reach which he calls finger-busters. One of the videos is on YouTube. Use a search engine for Mike Marshall Finger Buster Exercises. He even has a book out on these, too, called Mike Marshall's Mandolin Method-The Great Book of Finger Busters. Elderly has it on their site. It's helped me quite a bit.

[FredK]

and just for laughs, try playing a simple melody on one string using only finger 4.

Challenge accepted :grin:. We'll see if I'm still grinning after I give it a go.

[Simon DS]

One exercise I like is to place the fingers gently on the strings diatonically and then gently raise all or some one at a time. You’re really looking for any movement that doesn’t flow smoothly, or any finger that moves without needing to and work on that. Slide whole hand smoothly, in slow motion up to next position ten times, relax, then super fast once.

I also have a middle finger that wonders about a bit, across to the second string, hesitates then back to the first. It doesn’t cross the other fingers’ frets but even so I’m often left wondering where it actually is when I need it to do something. It’s the most rebellious of my fingers. The little finger isn’t so bad now, a bit lazy maybe, a dreamer, but willing when it wakes up.:)

[Sherry Cadenhead]

Lots of good suggestions here. They'll have to wait until I return from New York. James' suggestion I'll try on the plane, though.

[Sherry Cadenhead]

Think "I am the very model of a modern major general" in Eb, for one.

Huh?

[pops1]

Guess I have never noticed whether my pinky flies around when I play. As long as it hits the note I need when I need it to I say, let the freak flag fly.

[HonketyHank]

Sherry: Here -----> https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/group.php?discussionid=6246&do=discuss

[UsuallyPickin]

I have found that the more relaxed I keep my left hand the less flying finger and fatigue issues I have. R/

[Bruce Clausen]

One exercise I like is to place the fingers gently on the strings diatonically and then gently raise all or some one at a time. You’re really looking for any movement that doesn’t flow smoothly, or any finger that moves without needing to and work on that. Slide whole hand smoothly, in slow motion up to next position ten times, relax, then super fast once.


This sounds like the right approach to me. The problem isn't one of finger strength, but of left hand position and relaxation. As a guitar teacher I saw lots of this with students who held the guitar too low, or pointed the neck forward, or put their thumb over the neck.

Try this: place your four fingers on A-B-C-D on the G strings, with no downward pressure on the strings. If you can keep your hand and fingers facing the fingerboard with all four fingers standing perpendicular (not diagonal) to the strings and equally curved (!), you'll find you can gently lift any finger the necessary few millimeters with no tension at all. Then try the same exercise on the other strings. It gets a little harder as you cross to the E's, but easier as you move up the neck to higher positions.

For me (as a guitarist), the second finger faces the thumb through the neck, but this may not be the ideal position for everyone. Players coming from violin made need another approach.

Hope this helps!

[Mark Gunter]

Guess I have never noticed whether my pinky flies around when I play. As long as it hits the note I need when I need it to I say, let the freak flag fly.

:)) Gold comment.

[Mark Gunter]

Sherry, I think Henry was just saying that he considers that to play the melody for I am the very model of a modern major general in Eb is a finger buster.

A "finger buster", as used in this thread, is an exercise that most folk would find difficult for their fingers. Stretches, string crossings, etc. that are generally considered 'difficult.' Those are finger-buster exercises. As mentioned above, Mike Marshall is famous for using that term and has written what he calls Finger Busters which is mostly exercises to play on mandolin.

[Mark Gunter]

and just for laughs, try playing a simple melody on one string using only finger 4.

That's fun, tried it with Tennessee Waltz using 4th finger only and tremolo on 4th string.

Just for laughs. I don't expect it to help tame the flying pinky; I have a worse case than most, I think.

[MikeZito]

I have always tried to be 'different' when I play - and now I see that I am . . . I just watched my YouTube videos and noticed that it is not my fourth (pinky) finger that flies when I play, it is my third (ring) finger.

[Simon DS]

I did some more finger placement exercises today and then played some tunes. Great. It was so relaxing to have my fingers descend smoothly and precisely down onto the fretboard, for ten to twelve minutes it was great. Then not so great. 🙂
...back to the exercises.