Why not cheap baroque mandoliins?

[FiddlePicker]

I am a violin player who got into mandolins as a way of exploring advanced concepts in playing the violin, especially playing chords on the violin -- broken chords of course, but charted like chords in such classics as in Bach's Partitas II, Sarabande and Chaconne.

Anyhow, I stumbled across some performances using the baroque mandolin and have really fallen in love with the instrument.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QajMEO7CI3g

I've looked around at where you get an instrument like this and they are invariably replicated works of art and you are looking at about $3500 for one to start. I can't even do that for a good violin so that's out.

But why does such an instrument have to be some replication of an old work of art? They are not strung with steel, but nylon, and they don't have to be bowl backed. The peg box looks difficult, but it seem like the lack of bracing for steel and the simplicity of the neck suggest a much cheaper alternative.

Ideas, comments anyone?

[Explorer]

Why not cheap baroque mandoliins?

...I stumbled across some performances using the baroque mandolin and have really fallen in love with the instrument.

But why does such an instrument have to be some replication of an old work of art?

Ideas, comments anyone?

The instrument in many of this guy's videos...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2m3TtXhhpQ

...costs less than $400.

www.mid-east.com/Strings/Roosebeck-Ukulele/Roosebeck-Tenor-Lute-kulele-Sheesham

http://www.mid-east.com/ultrl_front.jpg
http://www.mid-east.com/ultrl_pegs.jpg
http://www.mid-east.com/ultrl_back.jpg
http://www.mid-east.com/ultrl_case.jpg

They come in soprano and tenor sizes, so mandolin and mandola tuning.

Good luck!

[LadysSolo]

There is a restored bowlback in the classifieds right now for $550. NFI

[allenhopkins]

Baroque and early-music instruments are generally built by individual luthiers; I know of no "factory" producing them. As a result, you pay "artisan" rates for them; the tradeoff is that they're almost invariably beautifully constructed to individual specs.

Here in Rochester we have some lutenists and early-music plucked players, centered around the Eastman School of Music. Local luthier Bernie Lehmann (http://www.lehmannstrings.com) is a bit of an early-music specialist, either for construction or restoration.

Baroque mandolins are such a niche instrument, that it's unrealistic to expect any large-scale shop to be building them. Maybe if the music they play becomes more popular, Gold Tone will have them built; worked for the ukulele-banjo...

[Jess L.]

... they don't have to be bowl backed. ...

I'm wondering if anyone knows of any flat-back versions in the non-expensive price range? The suggestions so far have been for bowl-backs.

Another thought... I wonder how much modification it would take to turn a regular modern mandolin into something that would sound like the instrument in the OP's video. Nylon strings, and... what else? Would that even be possible? (To get the sound, not the appearance.) Oh wait, no that wouldn't work, I just noticed the bridge is glued on instead of floating... whole different structure and sound...

What about starting with one of the (South American??) mandolin-like instruments that already have the glued-on bridge, and proceeding from there to try to get that sound?

Now I'm curious. I think I'll put a capo on my nylon-strung CGDAE mini classical guitar (it has the usual glued-on bridge, of course) to make it have a short/mandolin scale-length and see if that produces a similar sound to the OP video, when flatpicked... er no wait another obstacle there, my guitar has no cutaway so fretting will be 'interesting'... Well I'm going to try it anyway. :grin: :))

[Explorer]

I'm wondering if anyone knows of any flat-back versions in the non-expensive price range? The suggestions so far have been for bowl-backs.

Another thought... I wonder how much modification it would take to turn a regular modern mandolin into something that would sound like the instrument in the OP's video. Nylon strings, and... what else? Would that even be possible? (To get the sound, not the appearance.)

The instrument in the video is tuned GBEADG.

A guitarlele is tuned ADGCEA.

So, $99 for a guitarlele to play in that tuning on nylon strings with no regards to appearance, $400 to play a nylon-strung 4-course DGAE mandolin with the appearance of an old lute.

[FiddlePicker]

The instrument in many of this guy's videos...

...costs less than $400.

They come in soprano and tenor sizes, so mandolin and mandola tuning.

Good luck!

That's really just what I'm thinking of. Now if only I could get the same thing in a dual string six course instrument as in my posted video instead of just four.


The instrument in the video is tuned GBEADG.

A guitarlele is tuned ADGCEA.

So, $99 for a guitarlele to play in that tuning on nylon strings with no regards to appearance, $400 to play a nylon-strung 4-course DGAE mandolin with the appearance of an old lute.

That's great, a guitarlele might be a good place to start being so cheap.

I'm not sure about your tuning. How do you know the tuning of the mandolin in my posted video? I figured it was some extension of the usual mandolin tuning of GDAE. You say it is GBEADG which is sort of like a guitar which is EADGBE.

I'm already trying nylon strings on my mandolin, but I'm having problems. See my post on the subject here:

https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?138857-Where-to-replace-the-E-string-from-the-Aquila-1M-Red-Series

[Martin Jonas]

The instrument in many of this guy's videos...

[...]

...costs less than $400.

www.mid-east.com/Strings/Roosebeck-Ukulele/Roosebeck-Tenor-Lute-kulele-Sheesham

[...]
They come in soprano and tenor sizes, so mandolin and mandola tuning.

Good luck!

When I last looked, the "Lute-kulele" (terrible name!) was available only in tenor size. That's an 8-string (4-course) instrument that can be tuned to mandola tuning. There is a soprano-size instrument in the same range, the "Baroq-ulele" (even worse name!), which is a bowlback ukulele with four single strings and the same scale length as the mandolin. That one is very easy to set up for mandolin tuning, using Aquila's nylgut ukulele strings in fifths. I can vouch for that personally as I own one of them. The tone is very nice when played softly, but the volume is pretty low and the tone goes south when you try to play more forcefully. I would greatly prefer them with double-string courses, but unfortunately they are only available with single strings.

They are, however, very cheap. Mid-East in the US seem to charge a premium compared to other distributors -- the entire Baroq-ulele/Lute-kulele range is made in Pakistan and sold cheaper in Europe. I paid GBP129 on Ebay UK a few years ago, and Thomann in Germany currently sell them for EUR 176 (Link (https://www.thomann.de/gb/thomann_baroque_ukulele_soprano.htm)).

To give you an idea of the tone, here is a recording of a Baroque sonata by Arrigoni that I made four years ago -- original instrumentation was Baroque mandolin, violin and basso. I played the mandolin part on the nylon-strung Baroq-ulele, the violin part on steel-strung bowlback mandolin and the basso part on tenor guitar:

olFYD-o7T9Y

Martin

[DavidKOS]

Why? Not enough market interest. Those inexpensive lutes and other early instruments made in Pakistan are one of the few alternatives to luthier-built more costly reproductions.

[catmandu2]

I too love the sounds and styles of early music forms and went down that rabbit hole shortly after getting into mndlns. My solution was oud - which you could easily tie frets onto with fishing line if preferred. Tune it up any way you wish.

A double-course uke will also provide some of the sound and feel.

These instruments will allow entree to the world of fingerstyle playing, if you're inclined. There's so much music to explore in centuries before us.

*Was also going to suggest charango (in 5ths) as a low-cost alternative, as I see someone mentioned this in the chrngo threads recently revived.