Mandolin Banjo

[MandoNina]

Hi everyone!

So I purchased my first ( and second:) ) mandolin last year, and instantly fell head over heals. Ive hardly looked at my guitar for about six months.
And now I have the possibility of picking up a Mandolin Banjo, or Banjolin as I think it also goes by, and I must say that Im a bit excited. I am afraid though that my excitement is more due to how good I think this particular Banjolin looks than how good I think it will sound.

I wont have a chance to try the instrument before bying it, and the few clips Ive seen of Banjolins on youtube havent necessarily been overwhelmingly convincing.
Ive also heard that they are hard to keep in tune.

Does anyone of you have any experience with Mandolin Banjos, and know what some of the pros and cons might be?
(a link to a good sounding one might also be nice)

Any advice would appreciated



Hofner 545
Puglisi Reale & Figli 1913

[MikeEdgerton]

The only issue I've ever had with one was keeping it in tune.

[Ranald]

I too spend a great deal of time tuning and retuning the banjolin.
The advantages and disadvantages are two sides of the same coin. It's much louder than a mandolin, which can be good or bad depending on the circumstances. Everyone will hear it at a jam, but that includes hearing your mistakes. To some degree, it's a different instrument than a mandolin, in that it sounds more like a banjo -- twangy, loud, and a bit harsh if you're not Bela Fleck. Again, this may be good or bad, depending on what music you're playing. Personally, I find it suitable for particular tunes, mostly older music (e.g., very old blues, ragtime, late 19th & early 20th century American folk music), though I'll likely find some contemporary tunes that go well on it. That's a matter of taste though.

I'm fairly new to Mandolin Cafe and to the banjolin, but suspect there are older threads with contributions with people far more experienced than me. I recall people saying that some old models weren't made to last, though my 1924 Little Wonder is great. Good luck.

[pops1]

First thing when you want to play a mandolin banjo is to remember "it is a banjo". Banjos don't have heavy strings. Lighter strings makes a world of a difference in how brash it is, and how it stays in tune. I usually use two sets of tenor banjo strings, even then you could go lighter. It is something you can play lightly and carry a room full of other instruments, even with light strings. They are a fun instrument, but won't replace your mandolin.

[Ranald]

I too spend a great deal of time tuning and retuning the banjolin.


Just to clarify, I don't have to keep changing tuning to different notes on the banjolin, as on a banjo (unless you want to get fancy), but the GDAE strings slip out of tune far more easily than on my mandolin.

[pops1]

Just to clarify, I don't have to keep changing tuning to different notes on the banjolin, as on a banjo (unless you want to get fancy), but the GDAE strings slip out of tune far more easily than on my mandolin.

Do you have a skin head? They will move more than faux heads that have more stability. Also the more tension on the head/heavier strings/ the more it will sag. As you tune the tension changes each time you tune a string and causes the head to sink or lift effecting all the other strings. It takes longer to really get in tune with more strings and at more tension than a 5 string. Some people loosen the head to warm the sound and that can complicate things too, the head should not sag under the bridge feet. You may try lubricating the nut, if you tune a string and press the string between the nut and tuning post does it go sharp and stay there? If it does a little work on the nut would help. A simple graphite pencil helps lubricate the nut slots at each string change. You may know all this already, but info the OP may use.

[liestman]

I think the best in this genre is to use either a mandolin banjo that was built for having only 4 strings or one that was converted from 8 to 4. I have a20's Yosco (Yosco originated the internal resonator so it is a thick deep wooden rim with a second internal wall, no metal tone ring at all) converted from 8 to 4. I think of it as an octave-higher Irish tenor banjo. I actually never use it but it sounds way better to my ear just having 4 strings and of course is much easier to keep in tune (Renaissance head and good banjo tuners helps too). The wood rim and wood tone ring make it surprisingly mellow but still really loud. From my understanding the ones built for 4 strings are called either tango banjos or melody banjos but have a mandolin scale length.

[gtani7]

Banjos in general are complicated, you have to look at the neck joint especially and check the dowel stick or lag bolts are set at right angle and right height, the pot hasn't been delamed /deformed because people will compress it to lower action. Then there's lots of things you can replace pretty cheap: nut, bridge, tailpiece, head, strings.

aso recommended string height, 1/8" at 12th fret for banjo, is waaay to high for mandolin, but get a decent steel ruler and measure that

If you post pictures of those (neck joint, pot, tonering) maybe we can spot obvious defects

Googling banjo buyer guide: https://banjo.com/banjo-buying-guide-written-experts-banjo-com/

http://thehub.musiciansfriend.com/folk-instrument-buying-guides/banjos-how-to-choose

[allenhopkins]

1. Give us more info about the instrument you're considering. There are several varieties of mandolin banjos, with different designs, and within each type there are a number of different manufacturers. You can go from the "European" style, which often have smaller heads and shorter scales, to instruments that are nearly as "full size" in terms of their shells, as standard tenor and five-string banjos.

2. Mandolin banjo ≠ banjolin. The latter is a four-stringed instrument that came in a variety of sizes. Many people call mandolin banjos "banjolins," but that's more for verbal convenience than accuracy.

3. An instrument whose vibrating surface is a flexible membrane, like a banjo head, is going to be more persnickety in terms of holding tuning than one with a solid top like a standard mandolin. Changing the tuning of one string alters the pressure of the bridge on the head, affecting the other strings, so you can keep bouncing from string to string retuning. If the head's adequate tightened, there may be less of this.

4. Mandolin banjos are inherently more "raucous" than regular mandolins; one reason they were invented, was to provide mandolin players with the acoustic volume banjo players enjoyed. As such they work best if you "pick your spots" for playing them -- ragtime, jug band, certain types of old-time music, Dixieland-style jazz, even klezmer can sound fine on mandolin banjo. I work regularly in a Celtic quartet with a mandolin-banjo player; he has a large-head resonator instrument that avoids some of the shrillness of the smaller models. Sounds like this. (http://www.allenhopkins.org/music/jigmedley.mp3) (I'm playing mandola; there's also hammered dulcimer and guitar.)

5. One can mute any banjo by inserting some absorbent material (cloth, sponge) between the dowel stick and the head surface, inside the shell. There are also many adjustments that can be made in head tension, string composition and gauges, and playing technique to get the sound you want. I own a Vega Little Wonder and a no-name mandolin banjo, and while I don't play them often, I have no hesitancy to use them in the right situation.

[mandroid]

I have had a Vega Little Wonder Mandolin banjo for decades.. lovely maple throughout..
8 strings ..

another name for the 4 string is melody banjo... but trying to tune friction pegs
with such a short scale and steel strings ,makes you long for a reduction geared tuners...

[foldedpath]

I had one in the house for a few years, babysitting it for the owner who was traveling. It was a vintage model, don't remember the name. It was very heavy, and stayed reasonably in tune with a skin head.

The tone was nasty.... to my ears anyway, so this is just personal opinion. It had all the worst qualities of a banjo, sounding brash and plunky, without any of the better full-scale banjo qualities like ring and sustain.

I couldn't imagine wanting that sound in anything but a RagTime-oriented string band, or maybe a strolling Dixieland band at Disney, or a Riverboat Casino gig. It looks the part anyway. It wasn't a sound I could use in any of the music I play, so I didn't make my friend an offer on it, and gladly handed it back when he came back to town.

There aren't many instruments I'm glad to see leave the house, but that topped the list. YMMV, just personal opinion of these nasty little things.
:)

[catmandu2]

Every time I considered getting one, or a reso mndln, I always ended up - "nah," I can do everything with my tenor banjos. I liked the small size (and raucous volume), but I packed a little 17-fretter that provided much the same when needed..

For what I was doing - kind of a minstrelsy thing - it would've been fun. But were I to do that now, I'd just do it with a fiddle...still small, light, loud.

[Steve Davis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9EBtU55peI It's good for ragtime music.

[Jim Nollman]

If you play in a jug band or lean towards ragtime, and you need a loud and explosive percussive sound, this is your best choice. Kind of like claves with strings. But I didn't play in a jug band when I bought my 1920s vintage Gibson banjo mandolin for very little money on EBay. I quickly learned that playing it wasn't just a difference in degree from my other mandolins, but a difference in kind. My wife wouldn't let me play it in the same room as her. The good news for me is that I sold it for a good profit.

[pops1]

I have had several and used them for playing acoustic dances. Plenty of power without working hard. All mine stayed in tune quite well, some had skin heads some fiberskyn. Works good for old time too, also bluesy songs.

[MandoNina]

This site is seriously amongst the finer things online. 24 hours later and I suddenly have loads of "experience", several nice links and plenty of food for thought:)
Thanks a lot everyone!

So this is a pic of the instrument in question. Im being asked for around a $150.

165821165821


Hard to say from just one picture Im sure, but assuming that there is nothing nasty going on that isnt shown in this image, what do you guys think?
Obviously it isnt worth half of that if it doesnt play, but well...

[Jim Garber]

The only mandolin-banjo I have ever liked is the only one I own, a Weymann style 25 which I bought probably over 40 years ago. It has a 7 inch head and has its original compensated bridge. It has a skin head on it and when it plays it almost sounds like notes. :)

A friend of mine has a no-name MB and has it strung with Aquila Nylgut mandolin strings and it actually sounds pretty good. Weymann also made a melody banjo that is just about the same except for 4 strings.

165823

[allenhopkins]

The front-mounted bracket nuts, the resonator design, and the slotted headstock indicate to me European, quite likely British, origin. It appears, from the unusual angle of the photo, to be in good condition. Often the British-made instruments are smaller, with smaller heads, and thus a bit "plinkier" than the larger US models.

I wouldn't go higher than $150, for sure, and would perhaps try to bargain to somewhere between $100 and the asking price. Mandolin banjos are not in high demand, especially ones not from recognized makers like Gibson, Vega, Paramount etc.

Good luck!

[Ranald]

I'd also like to thank everyone for their input and suggestions. I value the voice of experience.

[pops1]

The smaller pot should keep it from being too obnoxious, I have a mandouke or melody 4 string with a small pot that is really sweet. this looks to be in good shape. They can be fun little instruments.

[pelone]

I concur with Folded Path with his assessment as the tone is "nasty." I have a 1921 Gibson 8 string that is a challenge to stay tuned and there are very few opportunities to use it in any socially approved settings. I have been willing to pass it on to anyone interested but there are few interested in this monster.

[David L]

I use my 8-string banjolin on a regular basis. It is my instrument of choice for the weekly Irish music session. It is also a good lead instrument for acoustic rock and roll and blues at the weekly general jam session. Mine has a real skin head, which gives it a distorted sound with many complex overtones. Just like an over-driven guitar, it is good for single-note lines, but chords are hard to control. I don't find it all that much harder to keep in tune, even though I use ultra-light mandolin strings on it.

[Beanzy]

MandoNina that looks similar to my John Barnes one, but with a better headstock than mine.
Great fun, good for playing dances without having to smack into it for volume.
Definitely a smiley face instrument, you can’t take yourself too seriously if you’re picking on a skin with eight strings.
And if you ever need to clear rodents out of the house or the barn the jobs a good’un if you whip that out.

I’m actually considering having a new one made so I can retire the old one which is a bit tired now.

[MandoNina]

Thanks guys!

If I had read all of this before initiation the purchasing prosess I would probably not have been looking to buy a mandolin banjo haha. But it is ending up costing me less than $50 (excluding shipping) and I think think its enough of a curiosity to deserve being in my "collection".

Not to mention that in 20 years time, when Ive finally acquired an f-shape, mandola, mandriola, octave mandolin, piccolo mandolin, mando cello, mando bass and a bandola, I would have to start looking for a mandolin banjo anyway...
Basically Im just thinking ahead:-)

[Ranald]

Enjoy your mandolin banjo, Nina.
I personally don't want to make mine sound too sweet, as I like to play old jugband and blues music on it. :)

[ajh]

Used to have one....the people I play with started calling it "The Mother Of All Evil". Obnoxious little beastie.

[Mandobart]

I ended up really warming up to my old Stahl Banjolin (https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?135250-Mystery-Banjolin) (scroll down to the bottom to hear it).

[pops1]

Used to have one....the people I play with started calling it "The Mother Of All Evil". Obnoxious little beastie.

When I had mandolin strings on mine it was obnoxious too, much much better when I put banjo string on.

[Roger Adams]

Used to have one....the people I play with started calling it "The Mother Of All Evil". Obnoxious little beastie.

Yep, the mandolin Banjo may be the perfect vision of hell.:)) None of the best of either instrument, and all of the worst of both!;)