Wurlitzer

[BoydWood]

My wife has a blond Wurlitzer A-type, a very short scale. #It has no other identification. #It was bought early in the 1900's, but we don't know the date.

Does anyone know anything at all about Wurlitzer mandolins?

[Eugene]

Wurlitzer was a retail chain based in Cincinnati, Ohio. They commissioned instruments for their own house brand from a number of different makers, including Martin. If you post a picture, a number of characters here might be able to guess at a maker.

I suspect this instrument might not be what I would categorize as "A-style," but might be a flat-backed mandolin with a canted spruce top. Is the back plate arched or flat? If it is what I suspect it might be, keep light strings on it. This breed of mandolin handily predates bluegrass and the heavy strings it popularized; these old flat-backs were built for a different breed of strings.

[BoydWood]

Right you are. #It is a flat top, with a split back. #The back is flat, and the top is canted, as you say.

I couldn't figure out how to attach more than one picture, so I just sent one.

The small scale makes it very difficult for me to play; it sounds beautiful, though. #I do have light strings on it, and the scale makes them even lighter.

[BoydWood]

http://members.cox.net/boyd_wood/DSC00005a.JPG

[Jim Garber]

Boyd:
How short is that short scale? I imagine it is about 13 inches? Can you post a full picture of the mandolin? Does it have rosewood back and sides? It is interesting because it seems to have a pearl-bordered pickguard.

Jim

[BoydWood]

It is 13 inches, and probably is rosewood in the back and sides. #Again, the back is split. #Here it is - sorry the quality is poor, I have no flash: http://members.cox.net/boyd_wood/DSC00007a.JPG

[Paul Hostetter]

Short scales can take heavier strings without peril. Sure looks like a Harmony.

Small photos fit the screen better:

[Eugene]

Short scales can take heavier strings without peril.
Short scales can, but depending, old-school necks and cants sometimes can't. #All other things equal, short scales are under less tension than long. #This was made before J74s came to be. #I wouldn't recommend string sets to go above 0.010" on e", and I personally would probably use sets down to 0.009" on e".

Can you get a shot up of the back too, Boyd?

[JGWoods]

I am getting to be a big fan of the short scale mandos. It doesn't take long to adapt to the somewhat tighter spacing and they sound real nice. I can switch back to the Gibson scale in a minute or two.
I play one often in a jam with 7-8 people playing banjos and fiddles and guitars- I can't hardly hear myself- but the guy across from me hears me fine so I know it makes a fair amount of noise/music.
I have a few with lots of cracks, finish all crackled, tuners wobbly etc. yet they hold tune, sound sweet, cost little and look beautiful in their aged condition to my eyes.

best
jgwoods

[BoydWood]

Not only will I put up a picture of the back tonight when I get home, but I will gladly make the picture smaller, if someone will tell me how.

As far as I can tell, the only way to put up an image is to FTP it out to a web site, and attach it as an image. #Being a jpeg, it has no real size.

Thanks, and thanks for your comments so far!

[Paul Hostetter]

Eugene - I'm mostly with you, but steel mandolin strings in the old days were much heavier than most of what's available now. All those old Gibsons, the bowlbacks from L&H and Schmidt et al, all the old Martin As and bowlbacks came with really beefy strings in the first third of the 20th, .012 - .040" at the very least, and largely were much higher carbon in the steel core so their tension was even higher than modern strings of the same gauges.

To me the string of choice for a Martin A or any reasonably sturdy 13" mandolin is J-74, which have about as much tension on that scale as lighter strings have on Gibson's longer scale. You obviously have to use some judgment when it comes to evaluating how a particular instrument is holding up the the load, but having a light gauge instrument doesn't directly equate to light gauge strings.

[Eugene]

However, I've seen far too many with severely warped necks and collapsed cants, especially of the mid-range models of Chicago-made flat mandolins. The usual culprit cited fo this damage is use of heavy, post-bluegrass strings. Didn't the near-ubiquitous classic Black Diamonds clock ca. 0.009"-0.010" on e"? I really don't know, but their reissue strings are pretty light. For me, I very much prefer Lenzner's efforts to emulate historic strings or the Dogal "Calace" carbon steel set RW-92b which seem to clock in the neighborhood of 0.0095" on e".

[Paul Hostetter]

JG - I will gladly make the picture smaller, if someone will tell me how. As far as I can tell, the only way to put up an image is to FTP it out to a web site, and attach it as an image. Being a jpeg, it has no real size.

Jpgs always have a size. Your original is 1152 pixels wide by 864 pixels tall. I rotated it and made it 255 pixels wide by 644 pixels tall. You can rotate and resize images with any decent graphics program; I use an old free one, Photoshop 4. With it one can also tweak the contrast and color balance a bit too, to save dark images.

You can either FTP your image (I usually prefer this) and link to that, or you can attach an image straight from your hard drive, by hitting the button on the Cafe website here that says "Add Reply" which looks like this:

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/Skin/Default/images/t_reply.gif Bottom right side of this page.

That opens a new page that has a place for you to browse to the image on your hard drive, no FTP uploading needed. The drawback is if you do that, the image is stuck at the bottom of your post and you can't add text below it.

http://www.lutherie.net/bugs.mandolin.jpg

And sometimes you want to say something more.

Eugene, the 12-40 specs are off a set that remains on a Style D Alright since the day it left Kalamazoo in what?, 1915? They're Mapes or Black Diamond. And they are ferocious piano wire strings too, pre-bluegrass were heavier than current strings. I know a lot of those little flatbacks didn't hold up to the strings of that day, but it was the strings of that day, not the modern ones, that did them in. That, and bad engineering. Reasonably sturdy means well-engineered! The Alright is a flat top mandolin, ninety years old and counting. Still totally playable with original telephone cable strings and long scale.

So do you think this pretty Wurlitzer was made by Harmony?

[Paul Hostetter]

I have ancient sets of Martin (and other) strings, both mandolin and guitar, plus a Martin string catalog from around 1928 which was a real eye-opener, as they advetised hex cores for their then-innovative new phosphor bronze strings. Their guitar strings came with a choice of a plain or wound .018 for the B string. Eek! That was in medium gauge strings of that era, which are today's heavy gauge. They didn't even offer light-gauge strings then.

With all the really old instruments, including mandolins, that I've ever encountered with obviously original or period strings on them, the gauges were extremely heavy. Part of Martin's well-earned claim to fame is that their engineering and construction was good enough to take those strings. Remember their ill-fated foray into the OM guitar, and why that resulted in the 24.9" scale?

The Alright Style D from ca. 1915 is a Gibson, not a Martin. The usual Gibson 13.9" scale, just a very dolled-up Army-Navy.

[Eugene]

So do you think this Wurlitzer was made by Harmony?
I think it's quite possible. #The fingerboard terminus is almost identical to some Groehsl mandolins I've seen (i.e., proto-Stromberg/Kay). #The soundbox profile looks similar to the that of the Leland mandolins by L&H I've seen. #Another more remote maybe is the Larson bros., but I think this is less likely than any of the previous. #I think this piece is most likely by some version of proto-Kay or proto-Harmony.

How are you certain the heavy strings are stock from the 1915 Gibson shop, Paul? #(Oops: I'd read "style D" and originally glossed over "Kalamazoo" and "Alright" to glom onto my fondness for Martin). #I have handled a number of old bowlbacks with rusty and broken strings that seemed considerably lighter, although I've never subjected any to the micrometer.

To Martin's engineering credit (and contributing to my continued fondness for the shop), I can't recall having seen a collapsed cant on an old Martin.

[Paul Hostetter]

http://www.theratx.com/html/nate-jan/assets/images/horsecart.jpg

[Philip Halcomb]

Paul, I've been enjoying your pictures lately, especially the one of Bugs playing the mando. You should start a new art exhibit and call it "Picturing Lutherie" http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Eugene]

On carts before horses, indeed. I posted referring to Martin in error, attempted an edit but was shut out by mysterious cyber spirits for phantom html tags that weren't really there, and finally ended up reposting as Paul was in the process of replying to my error. Simple, eh?

[BoydWood]

Here is the back, as promised.
You can't see the triple stripe on the back, or the "Wurlitzer" stamped on the headstock.

[Eugene]

An extended back plate serving as a heel cap, like in some Spanish guitars, was an odd quirk of the Larson bros.' flat mandolins. #I really don't think this one is a product of the Larson shop; I'm beginning to think such a back plate was also a quirk of the flat mandolins from the Groehsl shop. #Given the odd way the Larson shop operated, I wouldn't be surprised if one of their regular retailers commissioned a line of flat mandolins from the Larsons, and they just happened to refer to a Groehsl as a prototype.

[Paul Hostetter]

I know theirs weren't flat per se, but Gibson also lapped the backs over the heels of their necks. Violins and viols are always made like this and it's a hugely good idea for neck stability. It seems like the obvious inspiration for this feature. In violinese, that little tab of the back is called the button.

http://www.lutherie.net/hold.da.mandolin.jpg

[Eugene]

You said you "wouldn't be surprised if one of their regular retailers consigned a line of flat mandolins from the Larsons..." I assume you meant commission instead of consign, yes?
Of course. Now edited to correctness. Yesterday seems to have been a good day for hasty reply and typographic error.