Purchase of Tunings pegs suggestion(s)!

[Adamas]

Good evening.

This is my first post since I'm new to this forum.

I'm about to receive my Rogue RM 100A Mandolin from Musician's Friends and want to give it a proper set-up. (I've read that no set-up is made when the unit is shipped). This is not a 1,000$ Mandolin so any parts I can improve by changing right away I will do right away.

- new strings;
- change the tuning pegs;
- change the nut;
- hydrate the fret-board.
- Piezzo Pick-up

I have everything except the tuning pegs. Any help/suggestions regarding brand/model/style and web site would be appreciated.

[colorado_al]

Welcome to the cafe!
I wouldn't spend money upgrading the pegs on the Rogue. It'll cost you as much for the tuners as the entire mandolin.

Rob Meldrum's ebook is a good one for mandolin setup.
https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?98399-Mandolin-Set-up-E-Book-by-Rob-Meldrum&p=1196418&viewfull=1#post1196418

[Jess L.]

I bought a new Rogue RM-100A a little over 2 years ago, and the tuners work great. :mandosmiley: They turn very smoothly, they hold and don't slip, the gear ratio seems about right, no complaints. No reason to change them, IMO. :)

I've seen my share of useless junk tuners on *other* instruments I've had over the decades though, nearly always some old "vintage" thing that resists attempts at resurrection. ;) My ancient Favilla mandolin has tuners so hard to use that some of them require pliers to turn them - neither teflon nor oil did anything to improve the situation, they're bent & binding somehow. The cheap Kay mandolin I started out with as a kid, had similarly awful tuners that were nearly impossible to turn. So I know how discouraging it can be to have a bad set of tuners.

But I don't think you'll have to worry about that on the Rogue, at least if the one I received is any indication.

IMPORTANT: As you might already know - particularly for new instruments, many issues perceived to be caused by tuners, are actually caused by strings binding in the nut slots (or sometimes the bridge saddle). The Rogue does have a cheap plastic nut which IMO can bind or 'grab' the strings more than a harder material, but you can help that along by rubbing graphite (I use regular oldfashioned pencil lead) into the nut slots underneath the strings.

Appearance:
You might or might not like the appearance of the Rogue 'chrome'-plastic buttons on the tuners. Personally, I like the chrome look. :grin:

(However, I did not like the glossy finish on the instrument itself, so I worked it over a little bit with some 0000 steel wool, :)) yup totally the wrong way to achieve a 'satin' finish, :whistling: but at $2 for a box of steel wool it was sure cheaper than the alternatives.) :)


... Rob Meldrum's ebook is a good one for mandolin setup.
https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?98399-Mandolin-Set-up-E-Book-by-Rob-Meldrum&p=1196418&viewfull=1#post1196418

Yup. Good advice for all brands, including Rogue. A Rogue can be a serviceable instrument when set up correctly, mostly a matter of adjustments rather than buying new parts. :)


------------
My Rogue RM-100A in action: :grin:

"The Birdfeeder Waltz (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18pgXfPk-DQ)", mandolin melody + mandolin harmony + CGDAE mini classical guitar 'bass' line, for MandolinCafe Song-a-Week 455 (https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/group.php?discussionid=6157&do=discuss) (original melody composed by MandolinCafe member John Kelly).
"Down By The Brazos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IEoLkhSzUE)", one mandolin track + MIDI backing-app track. If I ever re-record this, next time I won't pick so close to the bridge, the tone is a little thin there... you get better tone further away from the bridge (i.e., nearer the fretboard).
Mandolin tracks above recorded using a low-cost Dean Markley stick-on piezo pickup, plugged into an old Roland Micro Cube amp set to "acoustic" mode with a little reverb, then line-in to Audacity on laptop computer. Note: OP had asked about piezo pickups, I like the aforementioned brand *but* I get hum unless I ground out the metal plug against my body while playing/recording - same deal with all the pickups I've tried so far (and on the Markley ones the wires are fragile and they can break after a year or so if not handled very delicately), not sure if the hum is coming from pickup, or amp, or what... happens even when the amp is running on batteries so it's not an AC thing, and we don't have flourescent lights... in this house we do have nearby dimmer switches but we didn't have dimmers in the other house which also had hum...

[pit lenz]

Rob Meldrum's ebook is a good one for mandolin setup.
https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?98399-Mandolin-Set-up-E-Book-by-Rob-Meldrum&p=1196418&viewfull=1#post1196418

Welcome to the café, Adamas!
When I recieved my first (cheap) mandolin, I followed Rob‘s instructions to set it up properly. That made a huge change in playability and sound. Besides that it gives you a good guide to understand your instrument. Highly recommended..👍👍

[Adamas]

Thank you.

Found Rob on the net already via youtube and got the document sent to me. Nice guy!

[Adamas]

Thanks but I'm a guitar tech so I already know the trick(s) of the trade. A sharp pencil always come in handy! :-)

and as I already told "Colorado" I got the document sent to me already. Rob is a nice guy.

Will consider your advice about the pegs.

[Adamas]

are you into Birds as well?

That Brazos piece was it done with a Rogue?

[mandroid]

yea, like a Swear jar, every-time you think of upgrading parts, put that cost in the jar
to save for a more expensive mandolin..

[MikeEdgerton]

You need to know two things when replacing mandolin tuning pegs. You need to know the distance between the posts center to center and you need to know if the gears are worm over or worm under. One might ask what the normal spacing is on modern mandolin tuners and the answer would be .906 inches or 23.01 mm. That will be the spacing on darn near every modern mandolin except a few years ago Kentucky started using an off sized set of tuners on their KM-150. That tells me that there are some off sized inexpensive tuners out there. I have no idea what the sizes are on the Rogue but as it is an inexpensive mandolin there's a chance they might have used the same tuners. You need to measure. Looking at the pictures of the Rogue mandolin on Musicians Friend it looks like they are using a worm over tuner. That's not surprising. I do believe in hot rods. If you want to change those tuners have at it but if they have the right spacing you're going to spend as much on new tuners that probably aren't going to work any better than what you have as you spent on the mandolin. It's not going to make the mandolin worth twice as much. The Rogue is a decent starter mandolin and a great instrument to learn setup on because it's cheap. Carry on.

[rfd]

a rogue rm-100a is a good starter as long as it can deliver good playability. i wouldn't mod out anything on it, leave it be as is. it will more than likely need some help with at least a good setup for action and intonation. if yer not sure of how to properly do a good setup, that's where to spend the money, rather than on new tuners or adding a pickup. you wanna have it setup first and foremost for ease of playability. getting the action reasonably low for easy string action. caveat - getting the string action down low enuf for that easy playability *may* require a fret level and crown. above all, have fun :)

[Adamas]

You wouldn't even change the plastic nut for a Buffalo bone?

[rfd]

You wouldn't even change the plastic nut for a Buffalo bone?

ever hear the term "you can't polish a turd"? apply that to the rogue mando.

yer sole goal with a beginner mando is NOT tone/sound - it's good to excellent playability.

[Jess L.]

are you into Birds as well? ...

No, I really don't know much about birds, aside from the starlings that tried to invade the attic a few years back (solved by repairing the screenwire over the attic vent holes). But "The Birdfeeder Waltz" came up as the MandolinCafe Song-a-Week recently and I liked the tune well enough to learn how to play it, so for the video I wanted to try to stay in the theme of the tune's name... so I put the bird pics & bird video clips there (the aerial drone footage is supposed to be like a "bird's eye view" on the way from one birdfeeder to the next). I had no clue which types of birds might be appropriate, so - lacking any other ideas - I just picked some cute and colorful ones. It was a fun project! For most of my other videos I just show me playing the instruments, but once in a while I like to try something different with the visuals.


... That Brazos piece was it done with a Rogue?

Yes. The same Rogue RM-100A in both those videos.

[OneChordTrick]

You wouldn't even change the plastic nut for a Buffalo bone?

I’m an advocate of the “if it ain’t broke don’t mend it” school of thought.

Other than spending time (and money!) on upgrading a beginners instrument spend that time learning to play and enjoying playing. Then if you decide to continue on the mandolin journey you can buy a better instrument that hopefully won’t need the upgrades. I’ve never seen, let alone played a Rogue but my understanding is that whilst it can be set up to play easily, it will never have a great tone. I’ve just moved off my beginner mandolin and no amount of tweaking would bring its sound close to its replacement. But it served its purpose; I learnt the basics and it made me realise that I enjoyed it enough to want to continue playing.

[colorado_al]

If you already have the bone nut, I'd change it out.

[rfd]

please allow me to repeat: the immediate goal of a mando beginner is playability, not tone or sound.

a new nut would only be required if there was an issue with the existing nut that couldn't be corrected via nut slot cutting or drop filling/cutting. changing out the nut for "better tone" is a waste of time and money. even if you were a chris thile clone, and your mando sounded like the angels on high, if it didn't play well for you then it ain't worth squat until it could be technically corrected. good playability allows one to master the instrument and improve technique - good tone does neither. yes, tone IS important, but not for a beginner. the tone of a rogue mando is more than sufficient. really good tone comes later, as your ear for mando music gets educated. just make sure yer piggy bank is adequately loaded when you do go mando tone shopping. ;)

[UsuallyPickin]

Welcome to the lovely world of tuning in fifths. Enjoy your Rogue starter kit. After some adjustment it should serve you long enough to get you started on your mandolin journey. Play with replacing pieces as you will keeping in mind that it will make little difference in the overall tone and that you won't get your money back at resale. It's akin to hot rodding a Ford Pinto ..... yes it can be done ... but why? R/

[rfd]

there are a few things about the rogue that you can DIY if yer a bit handy. first is to ditch the nickel strings and put on a set of phosphor-bronze strings, maybe in the bit lighter 10 gauge, too. while the strings are off, take a good length of 50 to 80 grit sandpaper and lay it over the top, about where the bridge was located, hold down the sandpaper whilst you sand the bottom of the bridge to best fit the contour of the top. much more than these things will typically require pro tech help. life is good.

[Seamus B]

I think the version of this in the UK is the Stagg Mandolin, which I first bought back in 2009 to see if I liked playing, and generally got along with the instrument. After a couple of years I decided to commit and got myself an Eastman MD305, which is basically the cheapest 'good' model of mandolin. I don't think I would even really consider changing up anything on my Eastman, and I certainly would not have spent another penny on my old Stagg.

My intention is to wait a couple of years, get better, and maybe get a more expensive Eastman or similar, and then I might consider changing pegs. But I don't see much point trying to find small ways to improve a Rogue or Stagg. Your money might be better spent on a really good set of picks, a well-made strap, a good tuner (a Snark maybe), some J74s and some lessons!

But each to their own - if you want to mod the Rogue you certainly should.

[mandroid]

learn the music first

don't try to make a low cost mandolin into something it will never be.


the tuners can be taken off run in* and oiled then put back on..

* an electric screwdriver can spin the button knob and break in the gears. quickly..


but if you must stew mac has adequate tuners....

[Bill Cameron]

Greetings fellow Canuck. Since you have an obvious affinity for the LaSiDo line (and perhaps a discount opportunity?) you might want to try out a Seagull S8. They are an innovative design which actually makes sense-and wont need a setup or tempt you much to upgrade parts which are non-standard—its something that is good to go out of the box, and holds appeal for a lot longer than the Rogue will (by which I mean certain of us wizened old geezers quite enjoy them). Retail about $400 Cdn in Ontario.

Not sure why you’re in a hurry to add a piezo pickup, which might not be the best hundred bucks or whatever you’ll spend this year, for your starter instrument—you might want to go with something not built-in, and mandos mic very easily compared to guitars for that matter. Have fun anyway.

[Adamas]

S8.........strange design! It's a Godin! Wasn't familiar with that model. For your comment regarding the piezzo........it's not expensive and one of the reason I've purchase a Mando is to do some recordings. I like to mix piezzo and microphone. I do that to all acoustic guitar recordings.

[Jeff Mando]

You wouldn't even change the plastic nut for a Buffalo bone?

Fitting a nut is not a job for the inexperienced. It is one of the more important parts of a mandolin, because it has a lot to do with the action and ease of playing. It has to be done right. It is not a 5 minute job. Even with the right files it could easily take a couple hours. The proper file set could cost $60-100. Bottom line -- if you don't know what you are doing, changing the nut could very easily make it play worse.

[mandroid]

He says :" Thanks but I'm a guitar tech".. guys like to tinker. just accept it..

good luck , at least its a cheap mandolin, to bodge, bugger with or up.



:whistling: