What Irish tunes should I learn?

[BluesPreacher]

So, I was at my wife's office Christmas party, getting a tad tipsy and chewing the fat with this guy who plays in a Celtic band. We got onto the topic of Irish sessions. He told me there's an Irish session that happens twice a month that's about a 45 minute drive from me.

I've been shy about going to an Irish session, because, well, I need to know the darn tunes, and as much as I love Celtic fiddle tunes, I don't know hardly any to be able to play my mando at a session.

My friend said I could play rhythm on my bouzouki, especially if I tune it G-D-A-D. Okay. That's good for a start.

I would also, in time, want to play the tunes in the session on my mando. Can you guys give me a list of, say, 10 or so tunes that I should know pretty well before I attempt to play melody in an Irish session?

[Bertram Henze]

Backing: takes some experience and/or knowing the tunes as well. Try how you do with recordings, e.g. on youtube.
Melody: the set of standard or must-know tunes depends on the session. Listen to what they play, ask for the names of tunes and start practising afterwards. Choosing tunes in advance is also good, but if you happen to be the only one to know the tune you start a set with be prepared to play 3 times round alone, everybody waiting for joining in the next tune they hopefully all know :whistling:

[Shelagh Moore]

Probably best to ask at the session. I've played at lots of different sessions and the repertoire usually varies at each although certain tunes do crop up fairly regularly (although this tends to evolve over time... some tunes that seemed common 40 years ago don't seem to get played so much now).

[Jill McAuley]

Agree with Richard and Bertram re: best to ask the folks at the session what tunes/sets they play. Regarding common session tunes (you're likely to come across some of these at a session), there is "Dow's List" from www.thesession.org, with 50-60 common tunes:

http://www.cheakamus.com/Ceilidh/Downloads/Dows_List.pdf

And also the well known Foinn Seisiún recordings (four volumes) from Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann, with tons of tunes. This link is from the CCE website but you can get them in the States via Amazon, or also on iTunes:

https://comhaltas.ie/shop/detail/foinn_seisiun_cd_volume_1/

[noah finn]

On the subject of backing ITM is interesting in that the backing is improvised while tue melody is set and played in unison.Dont under estimate the difficulty involved in improvising backing to ITM. IMHO Nothing ruins a session faster than poor backing musicians.

As for a list of tunes, every session will have its own list of tunes. In my expierence its near impossible to guess at what tunes are played in a particular session.

My advice (for what its worth) is go to the session without an instrument, have a drink, chat and record the tunes. Find out the names of the tunes if you can and work on them in your own time.

[Randi Gormley]

Some of the old chestnuts are so old that some of the modern sessioneers won't play them. And if there are a lot of flutes, they'll play flute-y tunes; pipes or Scottish-bending musicians will play stuff in odd keys .... Depends on the session. Couple sessions I attend, we'll play a whole slew of different types of tunes -- polkas, slip jigs, hornpipes, slides, the occasional waltz and, of course, o'carolan -- in addition to reels and jigs. Other sessions mostly play reels. Which is why I'll add my voice to others to say just drop down and listen. Ask if you can record the players and explain you're interested in ITM. They should be encouraging and may even invite you to drop by the next time they meet and bring your instrument. Listen to the backing instruments, too; as Noah mentioned, backing is a real art. You have to know the tunes as well as if you were playing melody, you need to be familiar with modes and you need to be alert to when the A and B parts are being played because they generally aren't in the same key, same mode or, occasionally, will sound like they're not even the same tune.

[Bertram Henze]

You have to know the tunes as well as if you were playing melody, you need to be familiar with modes and you need to be alert to when the A and B parts are being played because they generally aren't in the same key, same mode or, occasionally, will sound like they're not even the same tune.

Listen to her.

Plus, when you bring a bouzouki, everybody will expect that you are a proficient ITM backer already, because for what else would one need a bouzouki? A new guitar player will be forgiven, because they will expect him (and tell him) to get lost with his I,IV,V chords anyway, but a less-than-stellar bouzouki player is like a kid with a real-looking toy gun at a real bank robbery ~:>

Not meaning to discourage you :grin:, there are ways in, or else nobody would be playing this music. YouTube is your friend for trying to play along. If you can make it there, you'll make it anywhere. I have learned much of my backing skills that way: pick any tune you don't know and try to find good-sounding chords on the fly, which is very difficult at first, but will develop as your ears learn to soak in the harmony and structure of the tune. You'll find that most tunes fall into only a few harmonic categories, and one chord set will work for many tunes; then it's only about recognizing.

[lonestar_shawn]

There is also a phone app called "Tunepal." It's like Shazam for Irish music. It will listen to a tune being played, tell you the name, and even display the sheet music for that tune. It might be worth exploring that before you go to the session.

[JeffD]

Find out what tunes are popular with your local session.

Listen a lot, as much as possible, all the time. Get obsessed with the music.

Look at your feet. If you see an involuntary toe tapping - that's the tune to start with.

[Bertram Henze]

"Tunepal."

In my experience, this app reflects the ambiguity of Irish music regarding tune names and tune versions and downloads it onto the user, non-chill-filtered. It can't detect rhythms (i.e. cannot tell reels from jigs) and tries to classify by the melody notes contained in the tune. Good luck telling "Leitrim Fancy" and "Round the World for Sport" apart with that. I never got less than 20 suggestions on any given tune in a session, and often the real tune was not among them.

Ask the players, write down the names (of the tunes, not the players), and then go to thesession.org (https://thesession.org/) with that to check if you've got the right tune for a name (for there may be many tunes with the same name, and many names to a tune; but within a session the association is unique in most cases).
I have met players who have given up on the name business altogether and just play (nirvana mode): "do you want to start with this" (plays 2 bars) "or that?" (plays two bars)

[JeffD]

Don't worry about names. When I can't remember a name, I make it up, and then graciously allow myself to be corrected.

me: Y'all know the tune Large and Crumbly? It goes like this.

helpful jammer: Ummm..,. that's Maid Behind The Bar.

me: Oh yea. I knew she was large and crumbly. Lets play.

[Bertram Henze]

helpful jammer: Ummm..,. that's Maid Behind The Bar.

me: Oh yea. I knew she was large and crumbly. Lets play.

Now please take that R. Crumb cartoon out of my head :whistling:

[whistler]

To echo what everyone has said, there is no definitive 'top 10' of session tunes - top 200 or 300, maybe. There are many publications out there with selections of the more common tunes, but Dow's list (as mentioned above by Jill McAuley) is as good as any of them. From one of these books, or Dow's list, learn whichever 10 take your fancy and there is a very high chance that others in the session will know them. There is no guarantee whatsoever that any of those 10 tunes will be played - expect to sit and listen most of the time - but if you are invited to start a tune, play one of those 10 and you are alost guaranteed to have people join you.

I will also echo the comments about backing: Do not assume that, if you don't know the melody, you can get away with simply strumming chords. The chances are, there will already be someone providing accompaniment on guitar or bouzouki - or perhaps piano - and the chords they play will not necessarily be the same as those you are inclined to play. It is far better to listen. Immerse yourself to the point of near drowning; what doesn't kill you makes you stronger (...besides, death by trad would be a sweet way to go, anyway).

[Dagger Gordon]

Some of the old chestnuts are so old that some of the modern sessioneers won't play them.

I'm afraid that's true. There have been lots of threads a bit like this one over the years, but every time I see a suggested list with The Kesh Jig, Irish Washerwoman etc on it, I can't help but think that most Irish style session players will have played them literally thousands of times and frankly have probably had enough of them.

On the other hand, you've got to start somewhere.

I think, on balance, that you are probably better to listen as much as you can and try to learn tunes which you are personally most attracted to. If you started to play one of these, it is quite likely that a more experienced player might recognise it and help you through it, and you might well find that to be a more supportive experience. This is essentially repeating what Whistler just said.

The 'old chestnuts' will no doubt appear, and over time you will pick them up.

[jesserules]

You might try browsing the Discussion forum at thesession.org

Some of the posts there can be pretty cranky, but worth taking under advisement anyway.

[Jim Garber]

The hard part of breaking into celtic sessions vs. old time sessions is that in OT they rarely play medleys and often play the same tune over and over multiple times. Most of the ITM sessions I have been have sets of tunes and most are played maybe 3 times each (if that). OTOH you could ask to record some of those and get the tune names you have at least something to work on.

Definitely get a sense of the tunes at a session. Most people won't be too annoyed if you ask the names of tunesin the sets but do write them down so you won;t have to ask every time you come.

[Bertram Henze]

Most people won't be too annoyed if you ask the names of tunesin the sets but do write them down so you won;t have to ask every time you come.

...and when you come back, show them you've practised some of those tunes. Musicians like it when their circle is enlarged by promising new talents willing to learn.

[BluesPreacher]

Thanks so much for the great advice. I will do that: record the first session I go to then keep learning.

I have a copy of The Fiddler's Fakebook, and I was culling it for Celtic tunes and starting the list of the ones I like. I found every one on YouTube, which helps a lot too.

And I especially appreciate your counsel about backing, with it apparently being as particular and challenging as playing the tunes.

I'm on it. Thanks again!

[CelticDude]

One strategy is to learn some tunes that aren't so overplayed that everyone hates them, but are common enough that most seisun-goers will know them. It's also fun to have one relatively obscure tune in hand. Usually one or two of the experts will know it, and everyone else will be impressed that you can play it.

Here are my suggestions:
Jigs:
Connaughtman's Rambles - not totally overplayed yet
Langstrom's Pony - rarely played yet everyone seems to know it
Morrison's Jig - pushing the overplayed, but still acceptable to most?
The Gallowglass - here's the obscure one. A guy visiting from Ireland knew it, and the seisun leader sort of did.

Slip Jigs:
An Phish Fluich (the Good Wife) - great tune, but don't use the Gaelic name in front of someone's Irish grandmother. She'll smack you with a shillelagh.
Humours of Whiskey
The Butterfly - definitely overplayed, but still good to know.
Exile's Jig

Reels:
Wise Maid
Maid Behind the Bar
Gravel Walk
Musical Priest - okay, this is more one of my favourites
Beare Isle - really cool, never played, but everyone seems to know it

Others here may disagree, or add some, but I think it's not a bad start. Your idea to record the first seisun is good, but I've found that many of those I recorded and learned didn't get played next time. Still, any you learn, and then start at a seisun, you'll know that most there know it.

Good luck. I have somewhat mixed feelings about seisuns in the US. I'm lucky to know the leader, but they can be cliquish. The one time I was in Ireland, I found seisuns to be much more open and relaxed. They even played Ste Anne's reel, and a country song.

[BluesPreacher]

Thanks, again.

I got a $25 gift card for iTunes, so I bought a Kevin Burke album. (I also bought a collection of old-time tunes--wonderful--but that's another thread.)

Two tunes I've fallen in love with: "Rocky Road to Dublin" and "The King of the Fairies".

I've been working on "Congress Reel" also.

Now, to find a session. My experience--a "one-off", really--with a session (now defunct) was that it was, like you said, CelticDude, a tad cliquish.

The nearest session I've been able to find is an old-time/Celtic session that's a two hour drive from me. The next closest is 2 1/2 hours away. I might go to the first one every now and then. I've been warmly welcomed to join in, so there's that.

Thanks!

[Bertram Henze]

Congress Reel is a good start. King of the Fairies is a somwhat more rare barndance. Rocky Road to Dublin is a song you can stand out with, if you can sing it, that is. And it is not an easy one. ;)

[Bernie Daniel]

...I have somewhat mixed feelings about seisuns in the US. I'm lucky to know the leader, but they can be cliquish. The one time I was in Ireland, I found seisuns to be much more open and relaxed. They even played Ste Anne's reel, and a country song.

ITM players seem to have a reputation of being be more picky and prickly than some of the other common music genres we often mention here IMO. However the groups around this town seem very friendly and helpful! :)

Interesting to hear the opinions about the players in Ireland as compared to here. Maybe you were getting special treatment because you were a guest?

[foldedpath]

ITM players seem to have a reputation of being be more picky and prickly than some of the other common music genres we often mention here IMO. However the groups around this town seem very friendly and helpful! :)

I don't know about Ireland (haven't been there yet, really need to go), but here in the USA the "picky and prickly" sessions aren't always just being snobbish. It's more a question of self-preservation, in a country where there are armies of guitar players and others, who will barge into sessions thinking it's an "acoustic jam," with no idea of how the music works, and how different it is from Americana music. They get upset when told the melody players would prefer one guitar at a time, or one bodhran at a time, or that it's not a sing-a-long circle.

This doesn't happen everywhere, but it happens often enough that Irish trad sessions here in the USA often have this protective edginess, compared to looser gatherings of other amateur acoustic musicians.

I've seen one local Irish session killed off by being overrun with singer-songwriter guitarists and a shift towards OldTime. Nothing wrong with either genre, but it wasn't why the original crew got together to play Irish music. So the fiddlers left the scene. Happily, it returned to being a 100% Irish session a few years later, when the owner of the venue decided he wanted an Irish session. The fiddlers came back.

Not all sessions experience this kind of drama, but it happens, and maybe more often here in the USA with so many different acoustic music styles (and so many danged guitar players). The current sessions in my area are very open to newcomers, very welcoming to those with a genuine interest in the music. That said, you'll get a warmer welcome if you walk in the door as a newcomer carrying a fiddle, flute, or mandolin than if you walk in the door with a guitar.
;)

[liestman]

I would add this to all the advice above, all of which is great: Learn some of the tunes, show up at the session, explain nicely that you are new to this but really want to play this music and eventually play it up to their speed. Explain that you only know a few tunes and ask if you can start one, at your own pace. Most sessions I know will appreciate this attitude and will let you start (and complete) your tune at your tempo and you will have begun to join the session. If you instead show up and wait for your tune to be started by one of the regulars, first they may not play it at all and second they will probably play it faster than you are able, so you will end up just sitting there with your instrument in your hand. Try it and see if this approach works - it should get you on the path and get you started on being accepted.

[CES]

Threads like these make me want to ignore this music and focus on old time or pretty much any other musical genre out there. And I love this excrement...seriously...(excrement utilized to avoid getting bleeped, really do love this music)...

[Ryk Loske]

Chuck ...

I hear you. (I think much the same could be said about Bluegrass though ... "If you can't play at 220bpm you might as well fughettaboutit.") I'm wondering if it's primarily a problem in the Untied Snakes. Having spent a few years vacations in Ireland ... the exposure both Lynne and i have had with well established musicians that were at the very least semi-professional was very welcoming. We'll see this year since Lynne will be bringing her fiddle and i'll be bringing a guitar for the first time.

The music is just too rich to ignore.

Ryk

[Jim Garber]

I don’t think that ITM session players are particularly prickly. In my neck of the woods we have some serious sessions and we also have some slow sessions. Even at the serious sessions people are welcoming. You just have to know what the protocol is and understand that things work differently than say bluegrass, Old time, Cajun or Croatian or whatever.

[CES]

...

But, agree the music is awesome...

[BluesPreacher]

(I think much the same could be said about Bluegrass though ... "If you can't play at 220bpm you might as well fughettaboutit.")

The music is just too rich to ignore.


That's what makes me approach a session gingerly, and know I need to practice my tookus off before I attempt to actually play the tunes and try to keep up. Certainly, with a few exceptions, I find the tunes played REALLY FAST, especially on YouTube vids, so I know I have plenty of practice ahead of me.

And the music is indeed rich. And I'd say it has an earthy strength to it. (How's that for waxing poetic?)

[CelticDude]

Apologies; I didn't mean to turn this into a seisun complaint session. As it turns out, I've had some very good experiences at seisuns when I've traveled. I think that it's just my local scene that has jaded me some. Hopefully, your experiences will be different.

In any case, I think that the OP got his original question answered? Certainly a good bit of advice in this thread, from people more experienced that I am.

[Tim Griffin]

Find a session you can make every week. Listen and record the tunes with your phone. Work on the tunes and return with a few tunes or sets ready. It helps to remember who started the tunes or sets and when you see those folks at the session suggest playing the set you learned from them. Repeat. Arrive at the start time and stay the duration and you will discover who the regulars are and what is in their repertoire. This will take a commitment to be successful.

[foldedpath]

One more thing a beginner should know, is that in an Irish session it's perfectly okay to sit out a tune if you don't know it. Or don't know it well enough to keep up. You may want to stay at the periphery of the seating arrangement if you can't follow most of the tunes, but nobody will think less of you for sitting out tunes you don't know, and just enjoy listening to the music.

This is different from typical Americana jams like Bluegrass, OldTime, Folk, etc., where it may look like you're not having fun, or being too shy, if you don't bang away on every tune. There can be strong social pressure to join in on everything, and the music is structured in a way that allows it. In a Bluegrass jam, you're in chord backup mode for most of a song anyway, and that's not hard to pick up. In an OldTime jam, you may learn the tune on the fly, because everyone is in trance mode for 20 repeats of a fiddle tune.
;)

That doesn't work in an Irish session, where the whole point is playing unison melody. You may only get 3 repeats of a tune before the next one. Unless you're really good at picking things up by ear (some people can), that's not enough to learn on the fly. So it's perfectly fine to sit out and just listen, and that will be appreciated by the session regulars. Over time, you'll learn more of the local repertoire and join in. This won't happen overnight.

[Seamus B]

Going back to the excellent recommendation for the Foinn Seisiún CDs - all three double-CD albums are on Spotify, if you subscribe to it. 328 songs in total and an excellent resource for Irish jigs, reels, waltzes and many standards.

[Tim N]

I have recently started playing Irish bouzouki at an Irish session. We are very fortunate in Bonn (Germany) to have a monthly slow session, but it is certainly important to take it seriously and do the preparation. Not least because the players get free drinks! You've probably noticed, and it has been mentioned here, that chords seem to be far more flexible than notes! It's not much good for anyone if two accompanists are simultaneously playing different chords, so you have to find a way that works. My policy is to sit myself opposite the chap who is the regular, experienced accompanist. He is a guitarist, but so am I, so I can normally recognise what he's playing, and transfer that to bouzouki. I try to mirror what he's playing. It can get tricky when he plays modal chords way up the neck, but if you listen well, you can probably find a similar sound - although it's better to practice that quietly in between sets. I also spoke to him, in order to establish that I wasn't trying to compete with him, and he was fine with that.
Certainly learning tunes is the best preparation because its so encouraging when you recognise something you feel you can play. I took up mandolin primarily to help fix tunes in my head, and it's been a great help, and a lot of fun! Since, as is often emphasised, the TUNE is king, it seems to me important to have more than just an approximation of the melody in my head. However it is also true that accompanying is a real skill, and the main element is keeping a good rhythm and emphasis, approprite to the tunes in question. It's better to play nothing and listen than it is to just noodle along. And sometimes you can just play one ( or two) chord(s) all the way through, really concentrating on rhythm.
I hope you settle into session life and enjoy it. Like you, I am in my early days, and I know it takes a bit of courage - especially the very first time, It's so helpful if people are friendly, isn't it? BTW, I play in GDAE, which is also perfectly acceptable. I love the sound of GDAD, but just can't get along with the chord shapes....

[Rob Ross]

I find this thread timely, as last night I finally got to sit in at the Irish session at The Burren in Somerville, Massachusetts and my experience is a good example of what might be expected at a true ITM session for an outsider.

First, I need to explain that I doubt I'm ever going to be any better than intermediate in my skill level, though I keep plugging away. I'm lucky in that living in Minneapolis-St. Paul, there is an embarrassment of riches in the amount of bluegrass, old-time, Irish sessions (and more!) that occur in the Twin Cities. There used to be a long running beginner's slow session at O'Gara's in St. Paul I would regularly go to and now there's currently a somewhat faster but still not too fast session going on there. There's Keegan's, and Kieran's, and the Center for Irish Music, and lots more. So I've gotten to play a lot of Irish tunes, but my work schedule makes it difficult to show up enough regularly to get really good. However, that work schedule means I get to travel and check out sessions in other cities.

Therefore, when I'm on the road, I look up sessions (and jams) going on where I'll be, and try to find out as much as I can from thesession.org and websites for the venue's as to what level of skill is expected. If it doesn't look like I need to be an expert, I'll show up, introduce myself, explain my skill level, and ask if I might sit in. I am usually pleasantly invited to sit in. Some sessions are pretty open, and most levels of players will fit in. Some sessions are more advanced, and you'll need a higher level of skill and speed to hang in. Some sessions are quite advanced, and I know I won't fit in, and I don't even try. At one session, I once sat and listened across the room and in an hour of tunes played at a very fast pace, I only recognized 3 tunes, and those were Scottish.

My experience at The Burren was pretty much as I expected. The online description of the session described it as advanced, but all players were welcomed. I introduced myself, verified I played Irish tunes, and I was welcomed into the group. The other players all had pick-ups and plugged in, which was required for the exceptionally high noise level in the bar. I was able to play for a while on tunes I knew, but as things progressed I knew less of the group's tunes, and certainly wasn't going to be able to learn them at the tempo they were playing, so I bowed out after about an hour. While I really don't think I contributed greatly to the ensemble, I certainly did not drag it down (and I doubt anyone 18 inches beyond me even heard my mandolin over the amped fiddles and the bagpipes.) I had a nice, if brief, time, and I can highly recommend The Burren as a place to hear absolutely stellar ITM played at warp speed by exceptionally talented musicians.

I will reiterate what other's have said: each session has their own sets of tunes they play, and chances are good that most tunes will NOT be ones your session plays, nor will they generally overlap any other session you attend. Minneapolis, Philly, Boston, San Francisco, Denver, they all have different core tunes. Realize that "O'Neill's Music of Ireland" has about 1850 tunes, Breandán Breathnach collected over 7000, and over in Scotland "The Gow Collection Of Scottish Dance Music" has almost 600 tunes, plus many more recent additions to the genre. That's a whole lot of tunes you've never heard nor heard of, but someone else has, and can play them all quite well.

Do what the folks above have said: listen carefully to what the folks are playing, learn some of the tunes, be very reluctant to play chords till you've learned the tunes and sat in a bit, but by all means introduce yourself and give it a shot. It's very enjoyable music.