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mandoman15
Jun-28-2005, 10:26pm
Here's a good place to post pictures of the best part of any florentine style mando.

LKN2MYIS
Jun-29-2005, 6:37am
I'll post a front and back of my scroll. Not the best 'scroll only shots', but you'll get the idea.

LKN2MYIS
Jun-29-2005, 6:40am
And the last.

Love scrolls Should be a formal name for the disease
(S.E.A. - scroll envy acquisition?)

Scotti Adams
Jun-29-2005, 7:24am
..heres mine

sunburst
Jun-29-2005, 8:29am
Here's my most recent completed one. I've already changed the shape very slightly, so the next ones will be different. It seems like it just takes me a while living with a design to see it completely. Anyway, despite the dusty, questionable quality digital photos, here it is.

sunburst
Jun-29-2005, 8:30am
and the back

Darryl Wolfe
Jun-29-2005, 9:00am
fabulous SUNBURST, sunburst

jasona
Jun-29-2005, 11:51am
fabulous SUNBURST, sunburst
Agreed Darryl--I think its critical to be able to see the grain through the stain. Is that a french polish over varnish?

Lefty&French
Jun-29-2005, 12:53pm
Waoh!! Sunburst, it's a fabulous sunburst, really. This scroll isn't in the same category, but will be mine (some weeks).

testore
Jun-29-2005, 1:02pm
A scroll non the less! Just after first color coat.

sunburst
Jun-29-2005, 1:28pm
Thanks, Darryl.

Thanks, jasona. It's shellac over varnish, but I sprayed it, not French polished.

Lefty&French, That's fine carving! A good clean crest, and great binding miters - with two pinstripes!

testore, now that's a scroll. Our's on mandolins are actually "ionic volutes", so I hear.

Lefty&French
Jun-29-2005, 2:04pm
Lefty&French, That's fine carving! A good clean crest, and great binding miters - with two pinstripes!
Thanks a lot, Sunburst, I'm glad someone notices it. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Skip Kelley
Jun-29-2005, 4:04pm
Nice work John!! It just doesn't get any better than that. Perfect scroll and sunburst!

amowry
Jun-29-2005, 4:48pm
John- I like how the scroll ridge is pushed way to the outside-- it's a nice look.

Stephanie Reiser
Jun-29-2005, 7:14pm
Here's the one I'm currently working on. I took the pic tonight. It still needs to be cleaned up and scraped, but I wanted to post it before the thread gets too buried.

Stephanie Reiser
Jun-29-2005, 7:16pm
dummy me forgot to attach the pic

mandoman15
Jun-29-2005, 7:44pm
hey i noticed stephanie reiser dosen't have a web page, is there anywhere else you can see some of your work??? it looks great
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

mandoman15
Jun-29-2005, 7:54pm
word is Arches is building an f style mando.... might we see some preview eye candy??? please... if it's anything like his normal stuff i'm sure it's nothing short of perfectoamzingfabulosio...

Stephanie Reiser
Jun-30-2005, 4:24am
no website, john. I need to get better at building first. I do thank you for the nice words, though.

Stephanie Reiser
Jun-30-2005, 4:28am
John Hamlett, that F-model is stunning. I so love the color and the finish. Great workmanship, as always John. And lefty's scroll is textbook perfect, something to certainly strive for as I learn this craft.

Darren Kern
Jun-30-2005, 7:44am
Amanda, wow... you really are getting good! Your first ones look great too but I can see that you're learning and getting better http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I hope I can do the same once I get started.

Dan Adams
Jul-01-2005, 6:09pm
One of my favorites; triple bound WBW and you can see the grain of the maple from the back, even in the scroll. Good shape for a scroll, and excellent workmanship.

Now that's a strap holder! Dan

Jim M.
Jul-01-2005, 10:56pm
Paul Newson F5:

Jim M.
Jul-01-2005, 10:58pm
From the back:

Yonkle
Jul-02-2005, 12:36am
Holy Scrolly! Scrolly Mackeral! Who's going to be in the "Super Scroll" this year?

Albert Whiting
Jul-02-2005, 1:10am
Lebeda Premium Plus

rose#1
Jul-09-2005, 1:47pm
#32 a decent scroll

Scotti Adams
Jul-09-2005, 2:51pm
..doesnt get much better than that..great job Darby

ellisppi
Jul-11-2005, 1:21pm
#70

Lefty&French
Jul-12-2005, 9:10am
Two weeks!!!
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

jasona
Jul-12-2005, 10:05am
Wow Tom, that is a beauty! Et votre mando aussi Phil!

JDSmith
Jul-12-2005, 12:34pm
I couldn't help myself when I saw the topic. This one is a BRW - #48. Enjoy!

Lefty&French
Jul-12-2005, 1:33pm
"Merci beaucoup", Jason. I said "two weeks", but for the luthier, it means six coats of lacquer and polishing...

Scotti Adams
Jul-12-2005, 7:52pm
..not the best pic..but..

mandoman15
Jul-12-2005, 8:30pm
nice, what model/builder ??

Scotti Adams
Jul-13-2005, 6:43am
nice, what model/builder ??
Darby Boofer Rose Mandolins

Jonathan James
Jul-13-2005, 10:39am
Tom -- that has to be one of the most gorgeous scrolls I've ever seen! Fantastic work and if she sounds 1/10th as good as she looks, that is a keeper.

french guy
Jul-15-2005, 2:19am
My latest

phynie
Jul-15-2005, 4:22pm
French guy, your work is stunning as always. nice!

mandoman15
Jul-21-2005, 2:43pm
heres a awesome specimine of a loar scroll, this one is scratchy, I er....borrowed it from another post here on the cafe, and have been using it as my desktop for a month... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif thanks danhttp://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/79833_scroll_front_db.jpg

mandoman15
Jul-21-2005, 2:45pm
lately for some reason i've been seeing pictures of these guitars etc with scrolls made by various makers...whats the deal with those, and are there any pics, sound clips? thanks:D

MANDOLINMYSTER
Jul-21-2005, 9:00pm
Heres my 1921 F4

FrankenMouse
Jul-21-2005, 11:51pm
The new builders look so good, maybe it's time to trade in the old stuff...








http://bigbench.com/images/scroll2.jpg

FrankenMouse
Jul-22-2005, 12:01am
Look how they totally messed up on the innermost curve. Ugh... I can hardly bear it... truly a mandolin massacree!

And hey, doesn't MANDOLINMYSTER's picture, if you look closely, show the glaring fault? Oh the humanity.

http://bigbench.com/images/scroll5.jpg

Jim Hilburn
Jul-22-2005, 9:10am
The old Gibson scrolls always look "right" to me, even when the binding wasn't done perfectly. Remember, they were the only game in town with no others to compare.

sunburst
Jul-22-2005, 9:13am
...and they were as good as the standards of the day. The standards for detail have risen a lot in recent years.

Jonathan James
Jul-22-2005, 9:14am
2002 Newson

Jonathan James
Jul-22-2005, 9:15am
2004 Pomeroy

FrankenMouse
Jul-22-2005, 5:23pm
Clearly, I'm going to have to break down and start using emoticons: the sarcasm didn't come through in my earlier post! I love the scrolls on the old Gibsons, and think the quirks and minor faults add to their charm. Reminds you they were made by real human hands!

Edit: Not to take anything away from the modern builders shown here, all of whom have more talent than I could dream of.

mandoman15
Jul-22-2005, 5:44pm
i've noticed that there are three distinct types of scroll, round ones and enlongated ones and ones in between (i.e. longer up and down like john's and round like scotti's there ones like brentrups, that are in between these figures. it seems to be personal preference as the the scroll shapre, i prefer round tight scrolls, followed by the in betweens and lastly the enlongated ones. is there a name or classification for these types of scrolls or would they just be considere as varying degrees of tightness? What makes a good scroll??? am i crazy or are there really different types of scrolls. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

FrankenMouse
Jul-22-2005, 5:50pm
Sure there are different types. For example, Monteleone's scrolls are quite dramatically elongated. I too prefer the tight, round, Gibson-style.

sunburst
Jul-22-2005, 6:51pm
If you look closely at hand made violins, the scrolls are different. They are the mark of the maker, and vary from one instrument to another even from the same maker. I think mandolin scrolls are similarly the mark of the maker, even within the old Gibsons.

There is also context to consider. The same scroll that looks good to me on an F4 doesn't necessarily fit as well on an F5.

What happens to the crest of the scroll as it goes onto the body and how it ends are integral parts of the design, IMO, and that part has been left out of a lot of these pictures here. The height and general position of the crest within the scroll are important to how it looks too, as is the amount of taper, and the shape of the taper as you wind around the scroll from the body to the button. (Or other terminus.)

The shape of the fingerboard extender and heel button work together with the scroll as a design element because of the proximity between the two. The length of the neck, the size of the headstock, the position and shape of the body points are all design features that affect the context of the scroll.

In short, the scroll has to fit the rest of the design of the mandolin, and it needs to look appropriate viewed from every angle.
So...why do Fs cost so much more than As? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

mandoman15
Jul-23-2005, 7:26am
thanks sunburst i never thought that that much planning went into forming the perfect scroll, thats really neat, and i now have alot more respect for all the builders of F styles, they're amazing:)

HoGo
Jul-25-2005, 6:37am
My latest...

Hans
Jul-25-2005, 12:44pm
Scroll on Doug's M22V...oops, didn't see the lint in the navel. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

mandoman15
Jul-27-2005, 10:18am
perfect hans as always...even with the lint...:p

Kent Barnes
Aug-08-2005, 9:25pm
Harlan #3 front
http://www.kentium.net/mandolin/mando3pics/complete/harlan3topscroll.jpg

and back
http://www.kentium.net/mandolin/mando3pics/complete/harlan3scrollback.jpg

Aug-24-2005, 6:24pm
www.davismandolins.com ##61
Made in the blue ridge mountains of Virginia.

mandoman15
Aug-24-2005, 8:39pm
wow buddy that's an awesome looking mando, the finish looks ultra thin, and the binding is really nice. I'm also posting to send a mesage to arches to get a pic of this newly finished F-4 scroll out here... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif looking great

Aug-25-2005, 9:52am
Top side #61 www.davismandolins.com

Blueglass
Aug-25-2005, 11:37am
Does anybody else feel like a mando geek after they relize this post is an interesting one?

danb
Aug-25-2005, 1:16pm
Here's my favorite scroll.. the Schultz Loar:

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/76547_scroll_angular_shot3.jpg

mandoman15
Aug-25-2005, 9:06pm
you gotta love those crisp lines, i personnally think that they look better with the ridge slightly worn, so you can see the crest, really nice pic too. btw, i would like to put in my formal suggestion for a spell check option on teh quick reply bar...if my spelling got any worse i'd dye

JimRichter
Aug-26-2005, 8:36am
I'm a lousy photographer, but here are a couple of my Kimble F. #This was the second one he did (#18). #It was easy to see why almost 4 years ago he was a guy to watch. This is one of the few where Will followed a bit of the Gibson formula. Red spruce top/eastern hard rock maple back and sides (think I have the maple right).

Alan Perdue of IIIrd Tyme Out had this one for awhile until the cult of Gibs*n brainwashed another wayward soul.

Jim

JimRichter
Aug-26-2005, 8:37am
2nd Kimble

Brier
Aug-26-2005, 12:12pm
#3 volute.
Peter.

Chris Baird
Aug-29-2005, 3:18pm
By request...

Chris Baird
Aug-29-2005, 3:21pm
BTW, That Shultz Loar scroll is where its at. Thanks for the pic Dan. Makes for some good study material.

sunburst
Aug-29-2005, 3:53pm
I waited for several minutes for my dial-up modem so I could see how that scroll turned out, Chris.
I can tell you did your homework. Fine job.

mandoman15
Aug-29-2005, 8:17pm
that kimble looks pretty wicked love that color and high volute line

Jim Hilburn
Sep-02-2005, 8:12am
Here's about as good as I've been able to accomplish.

Jim Hilburn
Sep-02-2005, 8:14am
I picked that shot from some thumbnails and just realized that was an "in construction" photo.

Jonathan James
Sep-02-2005, 8:52am
Beautiful work Jim!

Mteresko
Sep-02-2005, 11:00am
Here's my Wiens #16
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/miter/Wiensscroll.jpg

Mteresko
Sep-02-2005, 11:01am
And the back
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/miter/010.jpg

Jonathan James
Sep-02-2005, 11:52am
Wow, that's perfect Michael!

good_ol_al_61
Sep-02-2005, 5:16pm
Eastman 615 Blackface.

Hans
Oct-06-2005, 2:27pm
Stretched scroll...

sunburst
Oct-06-2005, 3:03pm
Hans, what did you use to stretch that with? Would it work on sides that are too short?
Or, is that just what happens if you hang it from the strap too long?

Hans
Oct-06-2005, 5:24pm
Accidently sprayed it with plasticiser while it was hanging upside down. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
You think it's difficult to make a regular scroll look good, HAH! Getting this to flow into the rest of the body was a real experience! I actually made mockup scrolls out of 1/8" maple and bound them to get the template right. Template still needs a tiny bit of tweeking...oh, well, that's why they call them prototypes.

amowry
Oct-06-2005, 10:03pm
What a teaser Hans! I can't wait to see the rest.

Here's one of my latest with the first few coats of varnish.

amowry
Oct-06-2005, 10:06pm
...and the back.

ShaneJ
Oct-06-2005, 10:09pm
Andrew, that looks about as perfect as it could get. Very beautiful! If I can ever get binding miters to look like that, it'll be a miracle! Congrats! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Bill Halsey
Oct-06-2005, 10:28pm
Good, honest work...no binding to hide problems. They sawed this one all the way around.
F-2 #19347 (1914)

troika
Oct-07-2005, 2:51am
Lordy, that may be the nicest scroll I've ever seen, and to think it was done by hand and mind. How about the front eh?

Hans
Oct-07-2005, 6:09am
Nice scrolls yerself Andrew! Bill, that's a very good looking F-2 scroll. I might suggest that binding and purfling don't hide problems, they create them. It's a lot more difficult to visualize the scroll without binding, cut the ledge, and bind it than to just cut the scroll out. Just my opinion. # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Darryl Wolfe
Oct-07-2005, 7:51am
Billbows F2 picture shows a Gibson trait that hasn't been talked about much. #The scroll gap is fairly uniform except in that part near the body/neckblock. #In other words, when installing a strap, there is a little tight spot, then it moves easy in there..this anomoly is present until well after the Loar period. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

sunburst
Oct-07-2005, 8:40am
You mean...maybe it wasn't designed to be a strap hanger?

amowry
Oct-07-2005, 9:22am
It's also interesting how asymmetrical the neck block area is-- you can see how much it has been thinned on the scroll side to make room for the scroll. I think that became less pronounced later, didn't it?

Darryl Wolfe
Oct-07-2005, 9:29am
This photo of the Shultz Loar depicts the same anomoly in a different fashion due to the binding

mando archive shot (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_image.pl?3641)

sunburst
Oct-07-2005, 10:11am
It's also interesting how asymmetrical the neck block area is-- you can see how much it has been thinned on the scroll side to make room for the scroll. I think that became less pronounced later, didn't it?
I thought the same thing, so I took the binding from the Loar and superimposed it over the F4. Turns out they're a lot different. The neck block isn't much different, but the scroll is, and I guess it's the context that makes the head block look much more asymmetrical in the F4. (I've always liked the 2 and 4 scrolls better than the F5s.)

mandoryan
Oct-07-2005, 11:08am
Wow, those are a lot different. Were they made with different molds? I remember Darryl saying that the sides were sanded down and could get pretty thin. Is that what happened here?

Bill Halsey
Oct-07-2005, 11:50am
Lordy, that may be the nicest scroll I've ever seen, and to think it was done by hand and mind. How about the front eh?
Hand, mind, experience and the right tool. I was recently posting w/friends about this subject and will copy an interesting detail here:

...in the mando area Gibson had a wonderful old 36" Tannewitz bandsaw with a 1/8" blade, dedicated to sawing out headstocks and scrolls. It had a foot brake, and bore a sign: "SAVE YOUR FINGERS, USE THE BRAKE!" It was so heavy and well-balanced that it would coast forever after being shut off, and you couldn't tell that the blade was still moving with the factory noise and all.

>>How about the front eh?

It's a blackface in fine condition; it needs just a tiny bit more work before I set it up. I'll be happy to post some pix when it comes together.
BTW, a friend owns it's sister, #19346 (another b/f /F-2), in similar condition.

Bill Halsey
Oct-07-2005, 12:15pm
Nice scrolls yerself Andrew! Bill, that's a very good looking F-2 scroll. I might suggest that binding and purfling don't hide problems, they create them. It's a lot more difficult to visualize the scroll without binding, cut the ledge, and bind it than to just cut the scroll out. Just my opinion. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Executing a good binding job on the scroll certainly presents its challenges, Hans, without a doubt. Well taken; been there, etc. I was referring to hiding miscues with the bandsaw.

sunburst
Oct-07-2005, 12:41pm
...in the mando area Gibson had a wonderful old 36" Tannewitz bandsaw with a 1/8" blade, dedicated to sawing out headstocks and scrolls. It had a foot brake, and bore a sign: "SAVE YOUR FINGERS, USE THE BRAKE!" It was so heavy and well-balanced that it would coast forever after being shut off, and you couldn't tell that the blade was still moving with the factory noise and all.
I have a Yates Aerican 30 inch band saw from 1927. I've posted pictures of it before. When I'm getting ready to cut scrolls, especially peghead scrolls, I give it a fresh set up with a 1/8" blade. I just did that a couple of days ago, with new Lignum Vitae blade guides. Here's the piece I used to check my set up.

Bill Halsey
Oct-07-2005, 12:44pm
Wow, those are a lot different. Were they made with different molds? I remember Darryl saying that the sides were sanded down and could get pretty thin. Is that what happened here?
Gibson had several mandolin moulds that were all cast from the same pattern. However, they were machined and finished by hand, so they bear several individual traits, esp. in the area of the points. The outer scroll, waist and body outlines are fairly consistent within a somewhat generous tolerance.

Although an interesting and useful tool, superimposing photo images has its own set of problems; in Sunburst's example (thank you for that, BTW) I see problems in scale, planar rotation, a slight Z-axis mismatch and perspective differences due to focal length. Don't count on indexing on the button; they're all over the place. Summarily, these can amount to a whopping difference in outline.

Bill Halsey
Oct-07-2005, 12:51pm
... a fresh set up with a 1/8" blade. I just did that a couple of days ago, with new Lignum Vitae blade guides. Here's the piece I used to check my set up.
That's great, John...what kind of blade?

sunburst
Oct-07-2005, 1:11pm
Actually, I've been trying to remember where I got those blades because I'm going to need new ones soon. I had to have them made because you can't buy 1/8" blades long enough for a 30" saw off the shelf. (Fun handling those things too! They'll flip inside out in the blink of an eye.)

I don't suggest that the outlines of those pictures are indexible. One pic was almost straight on from the back, the other was not. I had to rotate one slightly (in photoshop) and resize to get them to superimpose. I just did it for my own curiosity, and thought others might be interested. Thanks for pointing out the possibility of errors. I probably should have added a disclaimer with the pics, but I was assuming nobody would think there was any real accuracy there. I assume too much sometimes.

(Give me enough time in photoshop, and they'll be the same shape, or whatever you want, but I didn't reshape anything for that picture.)

Oct-07-2005, 3:46pm
Long time lurker, first time poster...

Without further adu, it gives me great pleasure to present Hutto #39.

http://bellsouthpwp.net/g/a/gabgm/Hutto39.jpg

\Yeah, it's been played a little...

Bill Halsey
Oct-08-2005, 1:32pm
Long time lurker, first time poster...
Same here, Hutto...beautiful wood & color...any more images?

Bill Halsey
Oct-08-2005, 1:56pm
An interesting feature of many 'teens scrolls is how the front surface of the eye of the volute is tilted toward the same plane as the fingerboard...

Bill Halsey
Oct-08-2005, 2:00pm
...while the back surface is parallel with the ribs. This seemed to change in the '20s, when both front & back were more often parallel with the ribs...

sunburst
Oct-08-2005, 3:05pm
Here's what I see. The button is parallel to the fingerboard (more or less). Perhaps that surface was planed for the fingerboard while the top blank was still full size, and the scroll button was continuous with the fingerboard gluing surface before the wood in between was carved away.
Later, (20s) a separate piece of wood was used as a fingerboard extender, so the milling process would have changed. The fingerboard surface was no longer milled into the top blank, so they did the button parallel to the sides then. (?)

Oct-08-2005, 4:17pm
Long time lurker, first time poster...
Same here, Hutto...beautiful wood & color...any more images?
Yeah, that picture really doesn't do it any justice. Here is a better look at the one piece back...

Bill Halsey
Oct-09-2005, 11:30pm
Here's what I see. The button is parallel to the fingerboard (more or less). Perhaps that surface was planed for the fingerboard while the top blank was still full size, and the scroll button was continuous with the fingerboard gluing surface before the wood in between was carved away.
Later, (20s) a separate piece of wood was used as a fingerboard extender, so the milling process would have changed. The fingerboard surface was no longer milled into the top blank, so they did the button parallel to the sides then. (?)
Brilliant assessment, John...makes sense to me. Thank you for your insight. One more piece of the puzzle...

RI-Grass
Oct-10-2005, 10:53am
Simple yet elegent.
(Weber Bitterroot Custom - The Banjo Killer)

mandoman15
Oct-11-2005, 6:04am
Ri Grass the scroll is obviously not bound but teh top's edges look rounded have they been routed or something, is this common in webbers?

RI-Grass
Oct-11-2005, 9:32pm
mandoman15,

I think this is the common edge technique for their non-bound mandos such as the Gallatin and the backs of the Bitterroots. I chose this mando because I wanted a good quality instrument that would be a little more forgiving of the outdoors. No binding to come unglued, no gloss finish to crack. I still get a button (something missing in the Gallatins) and the color and burst on this mando is really cool. Plus, the truss-rod-cover is engraved "Banjo Killer". Who could ask for anything more?

Sal

mandolooter
Oct-12-2005, 12:01pm
This is a different look...

Daniel Nestlerode
Oct-12-2005, 1:38pm
Not quite as different as previous image, but a little different than the standard scroll is Rosta Capek's version of it. The altitude of the ridge is not the same on both sides. The inside of the ridge is carved more deeply. Skillfully done, but not to everyone's liking.

Daniel

mandoman15
Oct-12-2005, 4:20pm
sick volute!

G. Fisher
Mar-03-2006, 1:09pm
Here is my new Fletcher Brock

G. Fisher
Mar-03-2006, 1:11pm
Brentrup Eclipse

John Uhrig
Mar-11-2006, 10:38am
This is my 1970's Aria

John Uhrig
Mar-11-2006, 10:42am
and the front