View Full Version : Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups
Charlie Bernstein
Oct-16-2017, 6:39am
At some point, I'll probably want a better pickup for my mando. There are a lot out there, but the two I'm most interested in are the Baggs Radius-M and K&K's Twin.
Which do you like better? What's the trade-off between internal and external pickups? (Baggs's is external. K&K offers both.)
Thanks!
onassis
Oct-16-2017, 7:33am
I had a Baggs that I used a few times on my Jade. I ran it straight into a Crate acoustic amp, then later used a Para DI as a pre-amp, but I could never get a sound out of it that I could live with. Never managed to EQ out the pick knock and handling noise. I ended up going with an AT Pro 35 clip-on.
My current axe (Northfield) came with a K&K twin already installed with an endpin jack. Much better sound right out of the gate. It sounds pretty good running straight into an amp or the board with very little EQ work. I have a Redeye pre-amp that seems to sweeten the sound even more. I still prefer the clip-on, but the K&K provides a fine substitute when I need to plug in.
I haven't tried one, but JJB makes a piezo equivalent to the K&K at an even lower price. I can't remember exactly what I paid for the Baggs, but you could probably buy a JJB and have it professionally installed for about the cost of the Baggs alone. And I would go for internal with an endpin jack. No muss, no fuss, you'll never forget and leave it at home. And to my ears it has no effect on the acoustic sound. And it's mod that is easily reversed if desired.
MontanaMatt
Oct-16-2017, 9:08am
The radius can be internal too.
It's what I use with a Triton Piezo bigAmp. It is great. The right impedance is vital to it's function. Baggs pre amps sound too (cheap capacitor tinny) thin to me, thus the boutique pre for me.
almeriastrings
Oct-16-2017, 11:03am
I would go with the K&K. Very predictable. Easy installation. Not too fussy about impedance (circa 1M is fine). Only modest EQ normally required.
I am not a fan of the Radius. Even though I have several ultra-high impedance preamps available (including the Triton, and the Headway EDB-2), I find it tends to require a lot of LF rolloff to remove 'thump' and I simply find it harder work than the K&K's.
Charlie Bernstein
Oct-16-2017, 2:28pm
I would go with the K&K. Very predictable. Easy installation. Not too fussy about impedance (circa 1M is fine). Only modest EQ normally required.
I am not a fan of the Radius. . . . I simply find it harder work than the K&K's.
I have a K&K spider bridge pickup in my squareneck, and it's very well-behaved.
BrianWilliam
Oct-16-2017, 6:19pm
I would go with the K&K. Very predictable. Easy installation. Not too fussy about impedance (circa 1M is fine). Only modest EQ normally required.
I am not a fan of the Radius...I find it tends to require a lot of LF rolloff to remove 'thump' and I simply find it harder work than the K&K's.
This
9lbShellhamer
Oct-16-2017, 7:05pm
I'm interested in this as well. I was hoping for better reviews on the baggs because I love the boost feature on the Venue DI preamp that you can use with it. Any suggestions on a boost DI preamp that would work well with the K&K? I've read that you should stick to the same brands....
Charlie Bernstein
Oct-16-2017, 7:16pm
I'm interested in this as well. I was hoping for better reviews on the baggs because I love the boost feature on the Venue DI preamp that you can use with it. Any suggestions on a boost DI preamp that would work well with the K&K? I've read that you should stick to the same brands....
I think brand consistency is more important with some makes than others. My preamp/DI is a BBE Acoustimax, which for boosting has a "Sonic Maximizer" button with a bass and a treble knob so you have a bit of control over the frequencies you boost.
The pickups I run through it are a K&K spider bridge pickup, a Dean Markley single-coil guitar soundhole pickup, and a stick-on Dean Markley transducer for mando. The BBE doesn't seem to care.
One reason I don't want a Fishman pickup is that they always seem to match up all their gear so you need to buy long, expensive chains of whatnot.
Now it's starting to sound like Baggs is the same. Not a great selling point for my purposes.
Happy with the K&K in my dobro. It's starting to look like I should start saving up for one for my mando, too!
I'm interested in this as well. I was hoping for better reviews on the baggs because I love the boost feature on the Venue DI preamp that you can use with it. Any suggestions on a boost DI preamp that would work well with the K&K? I've read that you should stick to the same brands....
I have used Baggs para, Orchid, K&K and FireEye. I have a K&K pickup and the FireEye is by far the best. It has a boost that is adjustable and needs very little EQ adjustment. I don't believe there is any reason to stay with the brand.
almeriastrings
Oct-16-2017, 8:54pm
As long as the specs match up you can mix any brand. Not a problem at all.
MontanaMatt
Oct-16-2017, 9:42pm
I would go with the K&K. Very predictable. Easy installation. Not too fussy about impedance (circa 1M is fine). Only modest EQ normally required.
I am not a fan of the Radius. Even though I have several ultra-high impedance preamps available (including the Triton, and the Headway EDB-2), I find it tends to require a lot of LF rolloff to remove 'thump' and I simply find it harder work than the K&K's.
AL strings..I have yet to take the time to post a reply sound sample re:Baggs...but the one you posted a few months ago, I agree, sounded bad...
I consistently have well versed musicians and mandolin specific players complement the open natural sound of my rig. Baggs to Triton piezo big amp to mackie dl to qsc kw speakers. I'll grab a board recording next gig and post.
I've spent some time moving around the sensor on the outside in preparation for permanent installation, and there were definitely bad placements, I assume it's on a node or in an area of extreme movement, but the sound Sierra Hull gets live is all from the Baggs, no mic, and it's pretty fantastic too.
almeriastrings
Oct-16-2017, 11:41pm
AL strings..I have yet to take the time to post a reply sound sample re:Baggs...but the one you posted a few months ago, I agree, sounded bad...
I consistently have well versed musicians and mandolin specific players complement the open natural sound of my rig. Baggs to Triton piezo big amp to mackie dl to qsc kw speakers. I'll grab a board recording next gig and post.
I've spent some time moving around the sensor on the outside in preparation for permanent installation, and there were definitely bad placements, I assume it's on a node or in an area of extreme movement, but the sound Sierra Hull gets live is all from the Baggs, no mic, and it's pretty fantastic too.
I am not saying they can't sound fine - but that I find they take a lot more work to get 'dialled in' than many other options. I rarely use a pickup at all myself (I have an AKG C411, 'just in case') but I do install quite a few for other people. They seem ultra-sensitive to placement, and seem to work better on some mandolins than others. The K&K's are less "fussy" in terms of placement, don't require an ultra-high-z input, and you can dial them in on the board very easily, which is why I tend to suggest these as a safe bet.
Gabriel Wiseman
Oct-17-2017, 6:45am
I second the K&K with a fire eye or red eye preamp. K&K is very easy to set up and dial in no matter how what you seem to plug into. I have had literately no issues what so ever with any situation I have had to plug into.. The fire eye boxes are also just top notch. all hand made in Texas by some guys who know what they are doing... You can pretty much plug any pickup into any boost box you want and it will boost.... thing you want to look for is dependability and the sound, I've tried a lot of these things including TC eelctronic, which I like, LR baggs, Fishman and so on and truly, nothing beats the red eye in my opinion.
Victor Daniel
Oct-17-2017, 6:51am
I own both and switched to the K&K after years of being annoyed with the radius. I agree with the points above, the K&K is easier to achieve good sound with. The last thing you want to be doing at a live gig is constantly trying to “dial in”your pickup.
Charlie Bernstein
Oct-17-2017, 9:19am
. . . I consistently have well versed musicians and mandolin specific players complement the open natural sound of my rig. Baggs to Triton piezo . . . .
My friends with Baggs gear, a Celtic/Maritimes duo, are real happy with what they have. And they sound good, too.
They might be more into tone tweaking than I am. I'm a plug-and-play type.
danielpatrick
Oct-17-2017, 10:06am
I absolutely love the K&K twin. It really does sound pretty natural sounding. I did have an issue though with it and the Fishman Platinum Pre. I kept hearing distortion when chording. It tuns out that the pickup is so strong that the input impedance on the Fishman (10M) was too high and thus the cause of the distortion. I ended up buying the red eye which sounds great. The only bummer is there is no mute on it.....not that I ever have to tune...LOL.
pops1
Oct-17-2017, 11:15am
RedEye will change your boost switch to a mute, or you can use the effect out and in to do the same thing. I went inside and put a tiny toggle switch in for a mute so I could keep the boost. If you use your effect to mute you can still keep the boost.
Gabriel Wiseman
Oct-17-2017, 12:40pm
Like above, I use the red eye effects out loop to go into a TC electronics polytune When you turn on the tuner, it mutes everything and you can tune, unplug etc. without a "pop". The TC tuners can be used in strobe mode as well which is nice. But really, you can run into any tuner you like and they should all mute while the tuner is engaged.
Gabriel Wiseman
Oct-17-2017, 12:41pm
https://www.fire-eye.com/red-eye-1
Here is the one I'm using. Again, very well built stuff and made specifically for acoustic. Very natural.
pops1
Oct-17-2017, 12:52pm
https://www.fire-eye.com/red-eye-1
Here is the one I'm using. Again, very well built stuff and made specifically for acoustic. Very natural.
That's the same one I am using too. I was able to put a micro toggle above the battery, just for a mute. I have to reach down and flick it and not just step on a switch, but easy and works well. My effects will still work too.
Gabriel Wiseman
Oct-17-2017, 2:00pm
Did you just wire the switch into the battery line?
Did you just wire the switch into the battery line?
No I wired the switch into the effects, if I remember I shorted the effects out and with nothing going in it mutes the preamp. This could be done externally also.
almeriastrings
Oct-18-2017, 12:56am
Never try to mute anything by using the power lines from the battery. Horrendous 'bang' or 'pop' will result that can damage your speakers (and your ears). This is done by placing a resistor or resistor/capacitor combination across the signal feeds, or by using a solid-stare (transistor) muting circuit.
Gabriel Wiseman
Oct-18-2017, 10:35am
got ya. I assume that the switch works for the XLR out as well.....
pops1
Oct-18-2017, 12:22pm
You shouldn't change anything on the balanced output, if you are using phantom there is voltage on there. As almeriastrings has said switching voltage, including phantom, will make a pop in your speakers. Shorting the effects out without putting anything back into the input shuts the pre signal down as the input for the effects should be before the output of the XLR.
almeriastrings
Oct-18-2017, 6:43pm
Phantom muting arrangements:
http://www.shure.com/americas/support/find-an-answer/mute-switch-with-phantom-power
You can buy examples ready-made:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/520595-REG/Rolls_MS111_MS111_Mic_Switch.html
Loubrava
Oct-18-2017, 7:21pm
Phantom muting arrangements:
http://www.shure.com/americas/support/find-an-answer/mute-switch-with-phantom-power
You can buy examples ready-made:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/520595-REG/Rolls_MS111_MS111_Mic_Switch.html
Great info. I'm getting a K&k installed & never played with a K&K. I'm playing a Godin A8 and use the volume control to mute and sometimes while playing I'll need to adjust volume as I'm playing in a semi/loud band. I'm a little worried that I will really miss that volume control at the instrument. No sound man & almost always playing through a Fishman LB. So my thought is to get a volume pedal anybody have suggestions for a good pedal ? In my situation it seems to make the most sense unless I'm missing something.
Thanks
Seems like the RedEye works well and it has a boost that you can adjust so for solo's you can hit the boost if you don't have enought volume. Seems to sound very nice without a lot of EQ and has minimal adjustment so not complicated to operate.
Gabriel Wiseman
Oct-19-2017, 6:29am
Thanks for the info guys... I was not planning on installing a switch on my redeye.... just curios as to if the switch cut the output for the XLR as well when engaged. I run a tuner and other pedals through the effects loop in my redeye so I just engage the tuner when I need to mute.
Loubrava... As far as what your looking for (above).... The redeye will definitely work but really, any boost pedal will work as well... I like TC Electronic stuff as well.
Loubrava
Oct-19-2017, 9:02am
I looked at the redeye on line and the one I was looking at with the volume boost will increase the signal impedance but since the Fishman LB has preamp built in I'm sure if I need that or not how that would work. Also I'm wanting to control the full range of volume from off to full on. It looks like the redeye has a button you step on that will cut/increase volume to a set level where a volume pedal would give full range control without moving from where your playing. Am I looking at the right redeye pedal or not understanding how it works.
Thanks
Gabriel Wiseman
Oct-19-2017, 9:15am
I use a fishman loudbox with the redeye and have no problems at all... you are right though... The redeye will have a button that is either on or off... when off your playing is at one level and when you step on the boost button it jumps up the level, which you can adjust with a knob on the redeye... A volume pedal will allow you more intricate control over that volume so you can ease up or down as you wish. The redeye is more ment for setting the level you want when boosted and just leaving it there. Hope this helps
Charlie Bernstein
Oct-19-2017, 3:13pm
... A volume pedal will allow you more intricate control over that volume so you can ease up or down as you wish. . . . Hope this helps
Hm. A volume pedal. How come I never thought of that?
Yup, it helps!
I like less things in my signal chain, I set the mandolin fairly high so when I chord, which is seldom, I play very light and/or mute slightly with my forearm. Single notes should be ok without playing too hard. The boost is for those occasions when it gets a little louder and I don't want to play harder. I don't set it very much louder, just enough to get me thru a solo with the band getting louder. Should I need more I turn up on the PA after the song and I am back to where I was with my safety net. It is rare that I need the boost, but appreciate it when I need it.
Loubrava
Oct-19-2017, 3:54pm
I use a fishman loudbox with the redeye and have no problems at all... you are right though... The redeye will have a button that is either on or off... when off your playing is at one level and when you step on the boost button it jumps up the level, which you can adjust with a knob on the redeye... A volume pedal will allow you more intricate control over that volume so you can ease up or down as you wish. The redeye is more ment for setting the level you want when boosted and just leaving it there. Hope this helps
That's what I thought. My bands volume will change sometimes between sets sometimes during so having that volume control is what I'm after. With that said any recommendations for a volume pedal that would be good for the output of the K&k ? I'm thinking any pedal that would work on a guitar would work but not sure and if there is a mono in stereo out would be ideal.
Thanks
Loubrava
Oct-19-2017, 4:07pm
I like less things in my signal chain, I set the mandolin fairly high so when I chord, which is seldom, I play very light and/or mute slightly with my forearm. Single notes should be ok without playing too hard. The boost is for those occasions when it gets a little louder and I don't want to play harder. I don't set it very much louder, just enough to get me thru a solo with the band getting louder. Should I need more I turn up on the PA after the song and I am back to where I was with my safety net. It is rare that I need the boost, but appreciate it when I need it.
Thanks pops Playing the Godin A8 I really can't get the nuances of what I can on the acoustic that's probably why Godin had the volume slider built in. I've never played the acoustic with the band so maybe your idea would work. I just became so dependent on that volume control I couldn't imagine not having it. My mandolin is being built right now so I can't try anything out until January next year.
Charlie Bernstein
Oct-19-2017, 4:08pm
I like less things in my signal chain . . . .
Me three. What I want is instruments > ABCD box > preamp (with mute and boost) > PA. No effects, please! I have electric guitars for that.
Actually, I'd rather mic my instruments, but no one I play with likes that. So I'm putting a rig together. Have instruments and preamp, seems like all my friends have PAs, and the ABCD box in backordered.
I might have to resort to EQ boxes for some of the instruments. Hoping not. Time'll tell!
If you use a volume pedal it would have to be after the preamp so impedance would be matched and I use phantom power to power the pre soooo.... Could maybe try the effects and use the volume there, but really don't need it at this point for me.
Charlie Bernstein
Oct-19-2017, 5:52pm
If you use a volume . . . .
Can't see using one when I have a boost switch on the preamp. Too much gear = too many variables. I just want to play.
Might like it with electric though, for swells. Loved that sound ever since Lovin' Spoonful's "Daydream."
j. condino
Oct-19-2017, 11:44pm
K&K pickups with Baggs pre-amps for almost all of my gigging setups!