Semi-Hemispherical Fret Ends

[Inklings]

Hi All,

I did a search and didn't come up with any forum threads dedicated to this topic, uniquely.

I'm at the point in my Lutherie course (mainly guitar, but I think this crosses over) where I'm tailoring fret ends. I'm hearing a lot about Semi-Hemispherical, lately, and my instructor advised me to do some research.

Two questions:
1. Is there a real definition of what a "Semi Hemispherical" fret end looks like, or is it mostly in the eye of the luthier-beholder?

2. Is there an efficient technique you have found to accomplish them? I have seen a couple of approaches, but wanted to lean into the profound experience of the friendly folks here.

[sunburst]

Two questions:
1. Is there a real definition of what a "Semi Hemispherical" fret end looks like, or is it mostly in the eye of the luthier-beholder?

I did some research on that term a few years ago, and it seems that there is no word in the English language to describe the 1/4-of-a-sphere shape, so we're left with "semi-hemispherical", which can be roughly translated as half-half-spherical. Ideally, it would be exactly 1/4 or a sphere.


2. Is there an efficient technique you have found to accomplish them? I have seen a couple of approaches, but wanted to lean into the profound experience of the friendly folks here.

No efficient technique that I'm aware of. Some people shape the fret ends before installing them, some diligently file them to as close to 1/4-spheres as they can after installation. I've done it both ways and see no reason for either. It is difficult to keep the fret ends lined up, people sight down the neck and see fret ends that are not perfectly straight and say: "Hey, what's up with that?!" or words to that effect, if the fret ends are not perfectly aligned.
It takes an inordinate amount of time for what I consider no gain in comfort or functionality, it's mostly for looks and bragging rights.
If you look at my mandocello thread you might notice that the three short frets at the end of the fingerboard extender have the ends pre-finished before installation. They are close to 1/4 spheres, but they don't have to line up straight, so I could do that without worrying about having each fret end up exactly (within a few thousandths inch) of the right length.
The picture of the other fret ends in that thread doesn't show well because of shadows, but my preferred shape for fret ends is sort of an unfinished 1/4 sphere that leaves a small "flat" in the center of each fret end. That flat is left from the process of filing the frets down to the edge of the fingerboard and it assures that the fret ends are lined up as straight as they were when filed straight. There is no detectable difference in the feel (at least to me) between that and fully "semihemishperical" fret ends.
Here's a pic from a re-fret (so you know that is not my binding work :) ) showing the shape I prefer for fret ends.
161483

YMMV, just one luthier's opinions.

[Tavy]

John's answered this comprehensively, but basically the golden rule is "no sharp ends". If you're a player, then you may find some fingers more or less sensitive to incompletely filed ends, so experiment a bit ;)

[Inklings]

Thank you, John. What you're showing in that picture is exactly what my Instructor described to me. He concurs that there is probably an advantage to having the fret ends back from the edge of the binding/fingerboard a bit. As the wood in the 'board moves between Summer and Winter, there's no jagged nasties to open-up otherwise well-sealed fingers. Tavy, your point in that regard is well taken.

In terms of technique, the only "efficient" things I've seen all refer to doing the frets off the instrument. Your point about sighting down the neck and seeing varying lengths is an important one, that I hadn't considered. Even 1/32" is going to show when the straight edge of the 'board is right beside it. The approach of then running a file down the line may produce a flat, as you say, but in the picture you show it doesn't catch my eye as out of place. The result of having uniform ends is well worth it.

I will insert this video in for conversation, although I'm not sure what I think of the approach. I respect this Luthier's creativity, and he seems to be getting precise results. My mileage would vary widely, I fear:


https://youtu.be/moxUw3Ke2Q0

[sunburst]

I skipped through the video (Why do people who make these things talk so much?!) and he is basically doing it the usual pre-installation way only he's using a power tool rather than a hand tool; Dremel rather than file. The results would be roughly the same, and the difficulty of keeping the frets ends aligned remains the same.

FWIW, I though of a very fast way to do it before installation, but it doesn't work with the Evo Gold fret wire that I now prefer, so it's just as well that I didn't tool up for it. As of now, I see no reason not to continue to shape frets the way I currently do it.

[Marty Jacobson]

I don't see what the big deal is. If you start with 400 grit and work up to 3500, using a medium felt backer pad, you naturally get quasi-hemispherical fret ends with very little effort. It takes less care to get a good result using that method than almost any other part of the build process. IMHO.

[Drew Streip]

As noted in my other thread, I'm doing my first full fret job, and by the time it took to watch that video, I could have carefully filed a handful of frets.

It might be the cheapo in me who doesn't already own a dremel (and the fact that I'm not a professional) but it seems like a stretch to buy a power tool, buy two or three different bits, buy 20 sanding discs, run through safety checks, and take 3 other tools to make 1 ultra-specialized tool.

I appreciate his ingenuity though. I have had to come up with "hacks" of my own throughout this process.

[Dale Ludewig]

I've only done one of these fret jobs. It was a refret. The owner wanted the fret ends set in from the outside of the binding by about 1/32". Then domed, rounded, etc. The way I approached it, and it was painfully slow, was that I put the frets in normally. Then flushed them to the outside edge of the binding. And then (!) clamped a straight edge to the top of the board as an edge guide and used a file to take the ends of the frets in a perfectly straight line so they were back from the edge. Then I did the dressing and tried to not dig into the binding. It was lovely when it was done but it took hours. And hours.

[mtucker]

I didn't read any of the responses so maybe I'm repeating but believe you're generally referring to 'crowning' the frets. No?

[Graham McDonald]

No! Crowning usually referees to levelling the tops of the frets and then reshaping the cross-section into something close to a semi-circle. The discussion here is just about shaping the ends of the frets into a quarter sphere shape, and greater waste of time I cannot imagine. BTW there is someone out there who claims he owns the sole rights to such things. A name something like Sylvia, but male. He turned up on the Australian luthier forum a couple of years ago, claimed ownership and kindly offer to teach people, for a charge, how to do the fret ends that way. He was rapidly rebuffed in a typically vulgar Australian fashion and was not heard of again

Cheers


I didn't read any of the responses so maybe I'm repeating but believe you're generally referring to 'crowning' the frets. No?

[fscotte]

I don't make em round, but angled flat. I really don't like the look of rounded fret ends.

[mirwa]

http://www.mirwa.com.au/HTS_Spherical_Fret_Ends.html

How I do it

Steve

[Tom Haywood]

I've always heard them called bullet-end frets. I prefer the feel and look of them, and generally do them on bound fret boards or whenever I notch the tang before installing. There is a refret video on my Facebook page that shows how I do it with a file. Looks like it takes less than 1.5 minutes per fret to cut the tang and shape the ends. It is not difficult to achieve straight alignment, but I usually have to re-cut 1 or 2 frets to get it right. I especially like how they look and feel with EVO gold wire.

[Inklings]

As of now, I see no reason not to continue to shape frets the way I currently do it.

John, you've touched on an important part of why I'm asking. As a beginner, I'm interested in setting up process that is repeatable, efficient, and gives the customer a predictable, great result. It sounds to me like the traditional bevel method is the proven winner in that regard. I'm getting the sense that the semi-hemi technique might be a "back pocket" one. I'll have an instrument in the shop that I've done with this method, so I can show someone what it looks like, if they specifically request it. Otherwise, the traditional bevel will be the go-to.

It's because folks like you take the time to answer these questions so thoroughly that us newbies can get on our feet. Thank you!


It takes less care to get a good result using that method than almost any other part of the build process.

Marty, I think that's an interesting "compromise option" - apply some finesse to a traditional method until you get a shape that's pleasing.



The discussion here is just about shaping the ends of the frets into a quarter sphere shape, and greater waste of time I cannot imagine.

Graham, succinctly and insightfully put!



Re: Semi-Hemispherical Fret Ends

http://www.mirwa.com.au/HTS_Spherical_Fret_Ends.html

How I do it


Thanks, Steve! Wow - your sight is a real fount of information, and well laid out.



I prefer the feel and look of them

Tom, do you find your repair/refret customers are giving you good feedback about them?

[Tom Haywood]

Here's a set being made for a new mandolin a couple of years ago.

161593

I think folks generally prefer what they are accustomed to, so repairs replace what's there, refrets get a choice, and nicer new mandolins get the bullets unless otherwise requested. Most comments are a surprise that these don't feel much different from beveled frets, and that they give a little bit more tactile information about where you are on the neck.

[Inklings]

Good feedback! I think your philosophy about replacing like with like unless otherwise requested makes a lot of sense.

[j. condino]

"Semi - hemispherical" fret ends look nice and tend to be featured in all the fancy boutique shop instruments advertising. It will double the cost of a good fret job just from the amount of work it takes....but......how often do you play that part of the fret except when trying to duplicate the single string Monroe double stop chirp from back when he clearly needed some fretwork???

[Inklings]

the single string Monroe double stop chirp from back when he clearly needed some fretwork???

I solemnly swear I have never attempted the above, on any part of a fret.