Help with strings, please

[Louise NM]

I have a 30-year-old, F style, handbuilt mandolin. It has a lovely sound—full and rich. Until the strings die, anyway. When I got it last spring, there was a spare set of D'Addario J62s in the case, and, figuring the previous owner knew what he was doing, I've stuck with the J62s.

Until last week. Following a suggestion that the EXP74s have a longer life, I put a set on. The instrument now sounds like it's stuffed with wet gym socks. Looking through old threads, I don't see much discussion about this. Is this just a quirk of my instrument? Will the strings play in with a little time and sound better? Is the problem the coating, the weight, or both?

We were out of town for the weekend, so I didn't have chance to go talk to the guys at my local shop. By violating speed limits on various highways under state, federal, and tribal jurisdiction we managed to pull into a Guitar Center in a city on the way home, five minutes before closing. They had J74s but not J62s, so I bought a set of Martin M400s, same weight as the 62s.

Do I waste the time installing the Martins, having never tried them? (This coming week, the time is a bigger deal than the $6.) I can't find any mention of Martin strings on the Café—are they just beneath contempt? Hold out until the weekend (I have an absurd week coming my way) and get a set of 62s? Open the case and find that a miracle has occurred with the EXPs?

[Beanzy]

Strings which are too heavy can choke a top by not letting it respond to the input.
No miracle will likely occur with the heavy strings, they’re not going to get any lighter.
I have played sets of Martin strings on my basic mandolin and they worked fine for the 4 months they were on.
They wouldn’t win a place in my long term favourites list, but they’re definitely better than something that is stopping your top from moving.

[Jim Garber]

I don't know. I would not think that heavier strings would choke the sound. In most cases it would probably make the mandolin sound louder. EXPs are coated and phosphor bronze on the wound strings vs. 80-20 brass on the J-62s. Very different sound. Also the nut and bridge slots might be too small for the heavier strings. In any case, if you like the J-62s you should just stick to them.

[UsuallyPickin]

Setup ... technique... pick ... strings. As JG pointed out Nut and bridge slots may be too small. The top of your instrument has to move to sound good as Beanzy pointed out. You are used to a lighter string and a few thousandths heavier will make a noticeable difference. It takes more energy to drive a heavier string. A heavier pick is helpful in doing so. How you play ... where you pluck on the instrument impacts how much action / vibration you impart to the string as well as changing the tone. Any stringed instrument and player will have a set of strings that work best for them. Some strings do take some time to settle in. Experiment and enjoy the process. R/

[Tobin]

If you've already put on the EXP74s, give them a chance first before getting rid of them. Any new set of strings is going to sound different than the ones that just came off, even if they're the exact same set. A lot of times, I hate the sound of new strings when I first put them on. I hate them for the first week, even. It's not until I've really played them in for a week, maybe 10 days, that they develop the tone I like.

Granted, in my case it's usually that they're too bright sounding and I like for them to develop a warmer sound. In your case, if the volume has been reduced drastically and the tone is muffled, it may just be that those strings don't work well for your mandolin. But still, play them for a week or two and make sure. The strings may just need to settle in, and your ears may just need to adjust to the different sound. If you still hate them after they're played in, then by all means change them out. If nothing else, you will have really learned to listen to the way they behave and change as they settle in. And you'll know better what you want to hear when you go back to the J62s.

I know the general rule is that heavier strings are supposed to increase volume. But I have had at least one mandolin where it killed volume and made it sound stuffy like you describe. Probably it has to do with nut and saddle slots not being cut for that gauge, and not getting good bearing. Or it could have to do with the internal bracing, graduation, etc. For whatever reason, some mandolins just don't like heavier strings. The only way to know for sure is to keep trying different gauges, brands, etc., until you find the one that you love. It's part of the mandolin experience.

Lastly, don't forget that pick choice makes a big difference too. Sometimes you'll hate a set of strings until you try a different pick, and all of a sudden you'll love it. That pick may not work as well with other strings. It's fun trying to find the right combination that maximizes your tone and volume on your mandolin. But it takes a long time, and a lot of money in strings and picks to get there!

[sblock]

The knowledgeable folks on the MC have already covered this pretty well.

1) D'Addario J74s and EXP74s are great strings, and I love 'em, but they might not be the best strings for every F5 model and every player!

2) Transitioning to heavier strings may well require slightly large slots in the nut and bridge, depending on how these are cut. You need to check the fit and setup.

3) Transitioning to heavier strings may require some adjustments in your playing technique, and therefore some getting used to.

4) Transitioning to heavier strings may require some adjustments in your pick, especially if you use a thinner pick. You might consider a heavier pick and more appropriate bevel.

5) Yeah, by all means, try those Martin strings! They will, in all likelihood, be a bit more like what you're used to in sound, coming from J62s. But once this week's crisis is over and you have more time to experiment on your hands, I would definitely give the EXP74s another shot, taking care in the setup and pick selection as well. Once you get used to these, you may find that you like the extra volume you get, and the woodier tone. Or not! YMMV.

[mandroid]

Heavier strings resist the pick force so you can hit them harder.. the .11 is a .115" and the 15 is a 16,,

for a lighter touch the string pick would be thinner 10, instead of 11, and the other 6 a bit thinner too..

Physics: a thinner string reaches pitch at a lower tension.

[Louise NM]

Interesting replies, thank you all.

As Tobin says, my experience (violin/viola strings) is that they usually are too bright and almost grating at first, then settle out in a few days. Different strings, though.

I have tried different picks with the EXPs, and some do sound better than others, but at its best now it still sounds worse than the dead J62s did. I hate to waste the EXPs, but I think the Martins are going on it tomorrow.

[Mark Gunter]

The local music store here has only Martin mandolin strings, and that's what I used starting out. I had no problem with those strings, but later found that the EXP74CM drive my mandolins the best. Good luck with your string change to Martin, hope it works out for you.

[George R. Lane]

I have been using Mapes strings and find them to be less bright. And at $5.00 a set, you can't go wrong.

https://www.mapesstrings.com/product/mandolin-strings/

[Louise NM]

Those might be worth a try sometime, too. I love the sound of the instrument with the J62s---I just can't get to where I can buy them before I need the mando sounding decent on Wednesday. I know, buy more than one set!

[George R. Lane]

Remember you can build your own set, just like the J62's

[Billy Packard]

Hi Louise!

My initial response is this, start with light gauge. Typically they are chimier, easy to play and loud enough for you at this time of your development. Be sure the action is adjusted by a tech that knows and loves mandolins.

My favorite company is Mapes. You must order direct from the makers at this email...

https://www.mapesstrings.com/product/mandolin-strings/

The light gauge is fine for your immideate needs and ether the Mapes phosphor bronze or 80-20 brass will bring your mandolin to life. You could start with the Phosphor Bronze then try the Brass and see which you like best.


Billy

ps for picks I only use Blue Chip, they are unique and perfect. Start with the CT55.



billypackardmandolin.com

[Ivan Kelsall]

D'Addario J62 strings are now called EJ62,in line with D'Addarios attempt to save the planet. I just did a search & they seem to be pretty widely available :- http://www.stringsandbeyond.com/dj6280brmast.html
http://www.juststrings.com/daddariomandolin.html

If (E)J62 strings sound good on your mandolin,stick with them. Unless they cease to be available,why change ?,
Ivan

[Eric Platt]

Another vote for sticking with the EJ62 strings. Had a handmade acoustic guitar that was designed around light strings. Tried some mediums on it and not only did it sound worse, but the top started bellying up in short order.

Just saying it's possible the original builder designed that particular mandolin for light strings and that it will just sound best that way.

[Louise NM]

Does anyone know what kind of strings were the standard in the '80s when this particular mandolin was built? Has there been a move to heavier strings over the last 30 years?

I bought the instrument in an antique store, so got no information with it. It had an extra set of J62s in the case, so my assumption is that that is what the former owner used. The former owner probably bought it directly from the luthier, from what I have been told about the luthier by people who knew him, so it's a good guess that the instrument was built for similar strings. Maybe?

The Martins will go on when I get home from yet another orchestra rehearsal tonight, with hopes my mandolin will return to it's usual gorgeous self.

Ivan, I'm a big believer in buying locally, and the shop I prefer does have the EJ62s. I'm just totally boxed in time-wise this week, between a full-time job and a collision of musical commitments, and can't get over there to pick up a new set. Hence the emergency purchase of the Martins Sunday night.

The hope was that the EXPs would offer a longer life—changing eight strings at a time hasn't hit my list of favorite activities yet—but this seems to be a case of the road to hell being paved with good intentions.

[Jim Garber]

Does anyone know what kind of strings were the standard in the '80s when this particular mandolin was built? Has there been a move to heavier strings over the last 30 years?

As far as I can remember, J-74 and J-62 were available and popular in the 1980s and before. I don't think there was any trend toward heavier strings back then. It was just one's preference and perhaps (like today) what works best for the musician on his/her particular instrument.

Way back in the 1930s or so, I believe that heavier strings were often used to get more volume especially when playing acoustically.

[Louise NM]

Ahhhhh, the Martins are on, no more wet socks. The volume is back, the clarity is back, the resonance is back. I'm thinking this instrument just doesn't care for the heavier strings.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Louise - I don't know of any Cafe member who actually 'enjoys' changing strings - but they all sure as heck like the results !!.
As soon as you get time,visit your local store & buy several sets of EJ62's. A set of strings will usually last up ro 3 months before they really go down hill - depending on how much playing they get & possibly the acidity of your skin.

Some folks like 'coated' strings,some don't - i don't. They feel 'greasy' under my fingers,as though i'm not fretting them securely.

A point - I use GHS A270's medium strings on my Ellis "A" style & they sound superb,they're a very 'musical' string. GHS make a light gauge set, the A250's. Some time in the future,you might care to try a set of those to see (hear) how they make your mandolin sound. It's always worth trying out 'similar' strings to give you an alternative,
Ivan