Powered Monitor

[Perry]

Any experience with powered monitors for mandolin and acoustic guitar. I have a ToneBone Pre-Z and often feed a Fishman Loudbox Mini. But the Fishman has it's own set of EQ and a pre-amp...seems redundant and perhaps not the best to feed an amp with an already EQ'd and pre-amped signal?

For acoustic instruments is it better to have a clean power speaker with a horn enclosure?
Who makes a good one? QSC8? Mackie has that DLM series. Anybody try a DLM8 with a mandolin?

The DLM series has built in digital mixer...again too many stages of EQ?

Any suggestions on just a good clean acoustic instrument friendly powered speaker with no bells and whistles? Does NOT have to double as a PA speaker and ease of portability and light weight is a factor.

[mandowilli]

Perry, I use the Tonebone as well and send the main signal through the xlr connection to the mixer and my stage monitor signal through the 1/4 " connection to my Ultrasound amp as the manual suggests.

I like having the additonal eq on my amp onstage separate from the FOH so that I can react to the situation on stage without altering what is going out the mains. This results in no additional gain stage or eq on your main signal.

I have two JBL EON 612 powered speakers that I use for the groups stage monitors and I have tried hooking up one of them to my tonebone rig but found the sound sterile and unadjustable, not to mention that 1000 watts of power is extreme overkill for a stage amp.

[Willie Poole]

To me powered monitors is "Over kill" I have a mixer with separate channels for the mains and for the monitors, each has its own EQ settings so I can adjust each one apart from the other one on the stage...I have played on shows where the sound man had way too many speakers and amps and he just caused a lot of confusion when trying to adjust for my band...

Willie

[almeriastrings]

As a rule, concentric (or coaxial) powered monitors tend to be preferred. For mandolin/guitar primarily and 8" or 10" model will easily suffice. I have some of these:

http://www.directproaudio.com/loudspeakers/powered-monitors/db-technologies-flexsys-fm8-8-inch-coaxial-active-floor-monitor/

These are fed by the Aux outputs and can be individually EQ'd, etc, from the console.

[Dave Sheets]

Check out the QSC K or K2 series, or the RCF powered speakers. Super clean and lots of headroom.

[pops1]

While they call your preamp a preamp, it is not really a preamp. If that makes sense. It is more an impedance matching device. Going into an amp without a preamp and just a power amp is not what your tonebone is designed to do.

[mandowilli]

From the manual:

160827

[almeriastrings]

While they call your preamp a preamp, it is not really a preamp..

It is a preamp, in fact. It has several stages. 1) Hi-z buffer 2) EQ 3) Balanced/unbalanced line drivers

It can indeed directly feed a power amplifier, as in an active stage monitor.

[pops1]

It is a preamp, in fact. It has several stages. 1) Hi-z buffer 2) EQ 3) Balanced/unbalanced line drivers

It can indeed directly feed a power amplifier, as in an active stage monitor.

Thanks almeriastrings, so this would have the same type of signal similar to what is after the preamp of a PA? I think of a preamp signal as one that would go to a line in, not an input of a PA as it would be too hot.

[Tom Wright]

I think all the modern powered monitors are not pure power amps, but have their own preamp section, many have mic preamps.

A traditional power amp like a Crown DC300 would not be fully driven by outboard preamp pedals.

[almeriastrings]

The outputs are standard 600 Ohm, balanced XLR at mic level and the vast, vast majority of modern stage monitors (or powered speakers) now have input stages that can accept everything from mic level through to 'pro' line level. Sometimes (as on the QSC K-range) you have a switch to select the appropriate level, on others it is continuously variable. The only ones that might not will be some older designs. Even the cheaper end of modern powered speakers, such as the Alto are fine as they adopt the continuously variable approach.

If you ever encountered a system that was using older monitors, or even passive monitors, all you would need to do is send the signal from the preamp/DI into a 'flat' channel and route that straight to an Aux that feeds it at the correct level, or via a power amp.

[mandroid]

Reading some Setups use a dual source, say s Piezo pickup, to your monitor, notching out frequencies that feed back,
and a Mic with the accurate, full sound spectrum, to the house..

[almeriastrings]

Yes. Sam Bush uses that method, I believe.

[Brian Harris]

We just picked up a Behringer powered floor wedge. (https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/F1220D) The winery we play gets a little rowdy after 8pm (yeah, older crowd. Crazy by 8. Gone by 9:30). It was cheap. It sounds ok... like the $200 speaker it is. It's not bad, but not a joy to listen to like the QSC monitors.

[wxfloyd]

I was going to ask if your Loudbox has a line-in or effects loop you could run into from the tonebone, therefor bypassing the pre in the amp, but it doesn't look like your model of the Loudbox has any such option. Is there a reason you aren't running straight into the Loudbox? The 1/4" jack on channel 1 has a 10MOhm input, which is more than enough impedance matching for piezo pickups.
Edit: I re-read and saw that you use two instruments, which makes sense now using the tonebone. That being said, the tonebone has a pre-EQ XLR out. You could take that "dry" signal to the channel 2 xlr input on the Loudbox and use the EQ/gain settings on the Loudbox. Additionally (based on the Loudbox manual) you can run the output of the tonebone post-EQ ("wet") and set all your EQ settings on the Loudbox to the "12 O'clock" setting", effectively taking those EQ's out of circuit.

[Perry]

Thanks; that's what I essentially do...I've decided that I like the Red Eye pre-amp better then the tone bone. Less bells and whistles yes..but just a better tone easier to dial in.

My question remains though..is it better to hear a mandolin through a enclosure that has a horn and speaker or just an acoustic based amp? Almeriastrings answered yes.

The AER Alpha (twin cone speaker) has been intriguing me..anyone play a K&K equipped mandolin through one?

[pops1]

I have never liked a horn in monitors. A horn is a long throw device and a monitor is only a few feet away. I have built my own monitors and have used piezo tweeters, and soft dome tweeters. The soft dome needs a crossover and it took me 5 times with different values to get the sound I wanted, but well worth it. I know piezo sounds cheap, but doing sound for a festival and one of the bands wanted to use their Bag End monitors, they had an afternoon set and used my homemade monitors and decided not to use the Bag Ends.

Play thru what you are interested in using and make up your mind by how it sounds.

[almeriastrings]

There are horns... and horns..

Some can sound quite nasty. There can also be directivity and time-alignment issues. Designs differ. Ideally, for close working with a stage monitor the closer it is to a point source, the better. Co-ax designs do offer some advantage in that respect, but you can certainly get good results via other means too.

The Schertler TEDDY (https://secure.schertler.com/en_IT/shop/amplifiers/teddy) seems to be a recent addition. I've not seen or heard one, but they look interesting (if a tad on the expensive side).