I took the Tone-Gard off my mandolin. And a Lloyd Loar tidbit.

[Brian B]

It's been on my old Gibson A5-L for about a month non-stop. I removed it out of curiosity, thinking that after a solid month of playing with it it would be interesting to revert to the way the mandolin sounded Before Tone-Gard.

I kept it off. For about half a minute, anyway. The I put it back on, where it'll stay. No comparison.

I know there are lots of threads about Tone-Gard "believers" etc., and I'm completely non-plussed. The back of the mandolin, when in contact with the body, is dampened. When it's not in contact, isn't. How this is a matter of believing in it or not is hard for me to understand. My mando sounds infinitely better when the back is allowed to resonate.

In any event, I'm not trying to rehash any of the stuff in earlier posts, but to say that the TG, on my mando, is no longer optional. It's truly a wonderful ergonomic enhancement. It doesn't improve the mandolin, it just allows it to play at its potential no matter how you hold it. And most mandolin holding I do puts the back in contact with me. I can't imagine settling for the way lesser tone of the mandolin without it.

Related: this picture of a Vivitone mandolin — designed by Lloyd Loar — seems to try to accomplish the same thing the TG does with that raised lip around the back.

160292

[Bertram Henze]

How this is a matter of believing in it or not is hard for me to understand.

Those who keep choppin' away at the perimeter of a jam, anxious to remain inaudible, might never hear a difference ;)

Then there are those who never touch the back of their mandolin due to playing position/lack of belly.

[Beanzy]

I know there are lots of threads about Tone-Gard "believers" etc., and I'm completely non-plussed. The back of the mandolin, when in contact with the body, is dampened. When it's not in contact, isn't. How this is a matter of believing in it or not is hard for me to understand. My mando sounds infinitely better when the back is allowed to resonate.

Many players hold the mandolin so the back does not touch their body, so is not damped.
The tone guard is a very effective way for those who don't do so to compensate for their hold.

[Bertram Henze]

I know a mandolin player who, by the shape of his body, has no option of holding the mandolin away, except he'd be holding it above his head. If I had a mandolin for a main instrument, I'd probably get a toneguard, too.

As it is, I am playing an OM I have sitting on my right thigh, held away from me by means of a dish towel folded around a bottle of Dr Duck's AxWax and stuffed into my right pocket. :redface:

[multidon]

Another example of an acoustic instrument that uses a similar device is the mountain dulcimer. Some dulcimer players utilize a device known as a "possum board". I have no idea how it got that name! But it is basically a sort of cradle that holds the dulcimer's back clear of the player's lap so that the back can vibrate freely.

Violin shoulder rests serve a dual purpose, improving the player's hold and playing position while at the same time getting the violin back off the shoulder so that it can vibrate freely.

Both of the above devices make an audible difference, not just to me but to many. Therefore, it is logical that a tone guard would, also. That said, I don't use one, my playing position enables me to hold the back of the mandolin away from my body. I have no experience with them, nor do I know anyone who uses one, but when players who anchor the back of a mandolin against their body say it makes a difference. I absolutely believe it.

[Mandobart]

I usually play standing up when performing. This makes it more difficult to keep the back of any mando, OM, guitar, etc. away from my chest/belly. Tony P. custom made tone gards for my octave mando and mandola. You can get one for any instrument you want. I'd sure like to see more guitar players use them - never can hear those guys in a jam.

[dhergert]

As I've mentioned in other TG threads I use these devices on both of my F-style mandolins and am convinced of their value. In my experience with TGs, if you can feel vibration against your body as you play, there's a potential sound savings with the TG.

I'd love to get one for my wife to use with her D-41. I'm pretty sure it would work the same for her, however we've just never pulled the trigger yet. She however doesn't have a belly like I do, so maybe she is one of those who holds the instrument safely away from her body while playing.

All of my main playing banjos have resonators of one sort or another; these tend to serve as a TG, although also having a TG on a resonated banjo would be interesting. You can feel vibration through the resonator while playing though, so having the resonator insulated by a TG could potentially change things -- whether noticeably or not is up for grabs.

I also play a little bit of squareneck Dobro; mine is a late '60s aluminum bodied one made by Rudy himself in his private Mosrite workshop. I can feel significant vibration as I play, so there again is a potential sound savings.

I wonder if a Sousaphone would benefit from a TG. Lots of body contact.

[BrianWilliam]

Mileages vary....

I agree that for some mandolins, tone is noticeably improved with the tone-gard.

[Jeff Mando]

Hate to be a party pooper. And, no doubt it works -- as so many people swear by the device......but, my gripe is that it isn't organic, looks like an ad-on, and just plain ugly! Think about it for a minute, skilled craftsmen spend countless hours taking beautifully figured wood to create something sleek and flowing, AND THEN, somebody clamps this bracket thing on it! Huh? Really?

Kinda like putting training wheels on a Harley, IMHO. Might be a great idea, but ruins the flow.........daddy-O! :cool:

[Bertram Henze]

...Think about it for a minute, skilled craftsmen spend countless hours taking beautifully figured wood to create something sleek and flowing, AND THEN...

...someone the shape of Jabba the Hutt wraps his meaty hairy fingers around it, sending Aesthetics running screaming in horror. :))


Kinda like putting training wheels on a Harley, IMHO

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/7b/7f/d0/7b7fd05830daa62acfe49d46cffd4e0d.jpg

[Mike Snyder]

Mine. Fairly elegant, I think, for a hunk of stainless.

[Ron McMillan]

I am firmly in the camp that thinks it is too blummin' ugly to entertain using it.

[John Garcia]

I am firmly in the camp that thinks it is too blummin' ugly to entertain using it.

Honestly, are you thinking about the way the Tonegard looks when you watch something like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXDL6_3gFu0

[Caleb]

I don't care for the look either, but to each his/her own. I used to own a mandolin where the former owner used a TG. When he removed it it ripped the finish off all the way down to the bare wood where it connected. This might not be typical and probably isn't, but I only mention it as a heads up.

[Brian B]

Honestly, are you thinking about the way the Tonegard looks when you watch something like this?

Hear, hear.

[Brian B]

I wonder how that happened. There are tons and tons of stories of people not taking them off for years and there being no damage. I wonder if perhaps the tubing around the brackets that cushions them was off. Or was this some kind of adhesion?

[Brian B]

I thought it was going to be ugly, and it's not at all. Do I wish the mandolin could play as well without it? Yes, I'd prefer not to have a metal bracket on the back. But the TG is exceptionally well made, a real piece of craftsmanship, strong, thin metal with a fine black coatand once it's on, it's not the eyesore one might expect. The most unsightly parts are the little brackets, like the one you see on the Chris Thile video John Garcia posted downthread, but they are just not a big deal.

For me, it's about getting the mandolin to sound as good as it can. Looks taking a front seat to sound? Not for me.

[Brian B]

Skilled craftsmen spend countless hours taking beautifully figured wood to make an instrument that sounds good and that is also sleek and flowing. If it's just sleek and flowing but doesn't have good sound, it doesn't matter how good it looks unless it's going to be a hat rack.

A models, anyway.

[Editors note: F players, please turn your Snark-O-Meters up.]

[Mandobart]

I am firmly in the camp that thinks it is too blummin' ugly to entertain using it.

Lucky for me I don't have eyes in my gut, and my instruments are opaque enough to block the audience's view through the top and back in order to see my tone gard. I guess superman (or anyone with those comic book x-ray specs) would get an eyeful of my ugly tone gard - but the rest of the view (me through my clothes) would make the TG the least of their worries....

[jesserules]

You're not supposed to hold the mandolin clamped firmly against your torso. At most the bottom third of the back is touching your body (or your suit jacket) -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEhEQOljqHo

Nothing against tone-gards! But maybe TG enthusisats could ease up on the "What's wrong with you non-tone-gard-users???" comments.

[Marty Jacobson]

The next instrument I'm building has a second back. The internal one should be doing the acoustic "work", the outer arched back will hopefully prevent the back from being damped from body contact. From a usability perspective, if you need an aftermarket accessory to make the instrument sound its best, then that's a design flaw. Of course we're also adding mass to the instrument, so that will change the tone. But presumably it doesn't change it anywhere near as much as muting it by body contact so...

[Macabre]

Mine. Fairly elegant, I think, for a hunk of stainless.

Mike that thing is awesome!! Where did you get one with the spider web shape?

[Brian B]

You're not supposed to hold the mandolin clamped firmly against your torso.


I hope Thile, Grisman, Statman and the other top players figure that out one day so we can stop being subjected to their Tone-Gards.

[Brian B]

The next instrument I'm building has a second back. The internal one should be doing the acoustic "work", the outer arched back will hopefully prevent the back from being damped from body contact. From a usability perspective, if you need an aftermarket accessory to make the instrument sound its best, then that's a design flaw. Of course we're also adding mass to the instrument, so that will change the tone. But presumably it doesn't change it anywhere near as much as muting it by body contact so...

Wow. I just looked at your site for the first time, your mandolins are beautiful. Looking forward to hearin and seeing the new design.

[Jeff Mando]

Skilled craftsmen spend countless hours taking beautifully figured wood to make an instrument that sounds good and that is also sleek and flowing. If it's just sleek and flowing but doesn't have good sound, it doesn't matter how good it looks unless it's going to be a hat rack.

I disagree. Did you ever wonder why the "prettiest" part of the mandolin, the book-matched and figured back wood, doesn't face the audience? It is for the owner to enjoy. To glance down, and say to oneself, "I own this gorgeous work of art!" :cool:

Or said another way, why does everyone need to be so loud? Why does every vibration need to be transferred into volume? It's OK for a little vibration to be "wasted" against the owner's belly, IMHO. Kinda like a reassuring pat on the tummy! Nice! :mandosmiley:

[Mike Snyder]

160351
I have lost his card. Welding instructor at technical school in Tulsa. Maybe some other cafe member has contact info. Stainless solves some problems.

[Macabre]

160351
I have lost his card. Welding instructor at technical school in Tulsa. Maybe some other cafe member has contact info. Stainless solves some problems.

That would be awesome!

[Brian B]

I disagree. Did you ever wonder why the "prettiest" part of the mandolin, the book-matched and figured back wood, doesn't face the audience? It is for the owner to enjoy. To glance down, and say to oneself, "I own this gorgeous work of art!" :cool:

Or said another way, why does everyone need to be so loud? Why does every vibration need to be transferred into volume? It's OK for a little vibration to be "wasted" against the owner's belly, IMHO. Kinda like a reassuring pat on the tummy! Nice! :mandosmiley:

All fair points, but the beauty isn't at all obliterated by the TG, you still see it. You are also protecting that back, if the preciousness of it is the main concern, and lastly,
It has nothing to do with being loud. In fact,
I prefer to play quietly, and that's where the difference is greatest. Nice, fat tone without having to go for volume.

Have you ever tried a TG, or are you just opposed in principle? Honest question, I'm curious.

[Tobin]

Or said another way, why does everyone need to be so loud? Why does every vibration need to be transferred into volume? It's OK for a little vibration to be "wasted" against the owner's belly, IMHO. Kinda like a reassuring pat on the tummy! Nice! :mandosmiley:
Is that a serious question? Do you ever play with a group of people, like in a jam? Mandolins do have to compete for volume against fiddles and banjos.

[Jeff Mando]

Is that a serious question? Do you ever play with a group of people, like in a jam? Mandolins do have to compete for volume against fiddles and banjos.

Reminds me of that line from Trading Places, "nothing you've seen in your life can prepare you for the unbridled carnage you're about to witness." :))

[Beanzy]

I often get the feeling that people can get too hung up on being for or against some bits of kit.
I like what these let people do and how they can overcome issues people have with letting the back of the mandolin become damped due to their hold. My personal preferences tend towards eliminating any unnecessary clutter and bolt-ons from my mandolins. These just wouldn't have a purpose with my hold, just like a strap wouldn't make sense for me to use. But I'd no more be set against their use than against someone using a stick to help them get about. Heck if it overcomes an issue without having to relearn how you hold use the mandolin then it's surely worth using if you can get the instrument singing out better. I see these being about leting the instrument resonate as musch as it can rather than volume. The small complex overtones that give a fuller sound seem to be the first to go if you damp the back, getting them back is like night & day. I'm just happy I don't need to use one and that they aren't necessary to achieve that, even though they are a quick fix way to get it.
I wonder what comments the guy adding a second string to the earliest mandola had to endure, surely doubling up on strings would have looked like the weirdest & most wasteful addition ever, until the first strum & that sound came out.

[JeffD]

I am pretty good at holding the mandolin effectively away from my body, sitting or standing, for a period of time. But after a while, (it takes longer when sitting) I get tired, but still want to play.

After say two hours playing, less if it is a rip snorter of a jam, the tone gard becomes essential to me.

[Macabre]

160351
I have lost his card. Welding instructor at technical school in Tulsa. Maybe some other cafe member has contact info. Stainless solves some problems.

Anyone know who makes these?

[mandroid]

Another player had added another clamp -leg to his, Tone guard..

It holds down the set cue card, to remember songs and key its in..

[mandroid]

I am firmly in the camp that thinks it is too blummin' ugly to entertain using it.




Who spends that much time admiring the back of their mandolin, or, do they, instead of playing?

I know the classifieds sellers like to show the back figure, and un marked condition..


~o)~o)