Reverse MAS?

[Mike Scott]

Is there such a thing? Or........is it just MAS in disguise? For example, I jonesed after a Silverangel F for several years. I finally "pulled the trigger" on mine earlier this year. A fine mandolin it is too. However, I am really a hack and just don't feel worthy playing it, especially at a jam or something. So I've been thinking maybe I should sell it and get a lesser mandolin-say a Collings MT or Weber Gallatin A or something (probably won't, but.....). So, reverse MAS or MAS? You make the call.

[William Smith]

Keep it my friend, its paid for and I love the looks of those silver angels, for sure the ones with carving and the angel pix on the mando back! Awesome!

[George R. Lane]

Mike,
I am like you, a hacker or advanced noodler. I have a Weber Yellowstone that is far more mandolin that I need. I will always keep it because my good friend Bruce Weber went far and above to build a fantastic instrument for me. It has a very sentimental attachment for me and even though I can't bring out all of its' potential, it will be with me for the rest of my life.

I say enjoy your Silverangel and make as much music with it as you can. Just remember we can't all be like the Dawg or Thiele.

[sblock]

Yeah, I agree with everyone. You should keep it! It will remind you to grow into it. It will inspire you to practice and play more...and better. Nothing like owning an playing a great instrument.

[Austin Bob]

I also vote for keeping it. I've sold too many instruments over the years, usually because I wasn't playing them enough, or to finance other projects. I always ended up regretting it.

First of all, it's a hassle. No matter how fairly you price it, someone will inevitably offer you half that as a lowball. Then you have to pack it, insure it and ship it, and finally hope the new owner wants to keep it within the return period.

Even if all that works, you'll still most likely lose money on the deal. At the end of the day, the money in your pocket won't seem worth it, and you'll most likely miss her at some point down the road.

[Tobin]

I'll never be a good enough player to do justice to my Ellis F5. But am I going to sell it? Hell no! That would be crazy talk. Don't be a crazy talker.

[Mike Scott]

Thanks for the replies. I knew that my "I'm not worthy" example would elicit replies related to the example....... I read all this stuff about MAS and g@d knows I suffer mightily from this incurable disease. Just got me to wondering if selling off a more expensive mandolin for a lesser instrument would be reverse MAS or is just another form of MAS. I have done this before and later end up buying something more expensive all over again.

[Astro]

I'll make you an even swap--Your Silver Angel for my 300 dollar beater. Then we'll both be happy.

But seriously, re-read your last post. I believe you answered your own question.

[Jess L.]

... I am really a hack and just don't feel worthy playing it, especially at a jam or something. So I've been thinking maybe I should sell it and get a lesser mandolin... So, reverse MAS or MAS? You make the call.

I'd say "Neither".

Sounds more like a temporary case of self-doubt.

The solution?

Play it more! :mandosmiley: :grin:


... keep it! ... It will inspire you to practice and play more...and better. ...

Yup.


... I have done this before and later end up buying something more expensive all over again.

Well, I can see voluntarily downgrading to a lesser instrument if a person feels that they've acquired sufficient technical skills already, and they've hit a plateau and they're bored and they want some new challenges (definitely challenges!) - so the new challenge with a *lesser* instrument would be trying to tickle it just the right way to compensate for its tonal deficiencies to try to make the cruddy-sounding thing sound marginally acceptable after all. :))

I personally enjoy that type of challenge, :whistling: but I sure as heck would not have liked it when I was first starting out.

The problem with lesser instruments, particularly for new or relatively inexperienced players, is that there's no way for the player to know whether or not a particular problem is because of the instrument itself, or because of something needing improved with the player's technique. That kind of uncertainty and doubt really impedes learning, IMO, because the player is always blaming themselves for problems or bad tone or whatever, when in fact it might be a limitation of the instrument itself. But inexperienced players wouldn't necessarily know the difference and they'd get discouraged and want to give up.

That's why I think it's important, *especially* for new/intermediate players and anyone else who perhaps isn't confident with their own playing, to have the best possible instrument.

Knowing that your instrument is working *for* you, not against you, is just that little extra boost of encouragement that makes it easier to keep at it and keep practicing/playing.

Just my two cents' worth.



Quickie tutorial: Everything you need to know to start writing your own music and tab (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwnO-OfJUnA).

[Charlie Bernstein]

For me, this question is so easy there is no question: If you want the money, sell it. If you don't, don't.

[JeffD]

One of the issues might be performance anxiety. You show up at the jam. Your mandolin is recognized as a great one. Perhaps better than some of the other mandolin players attending.

You take it out, and everyone waits to hear what kind of magnificence you can dish out.

Pffffffffffffffffffffffftt.

Just take it out and play it. However good or not you play, most people don't know one mandolin from another, and those that do will be happy for you, appreciating what you have.

There is no "deserving". As soon as I owned a mandolin with good intonation all the way up the neck, and solid tone, some volume to it, I had a better mandolin than I "deserved". I have never been as good as my mandolin, from my second mandolin to this day.

We are not blues guitar hacks, who try to get the most out of the least, so the (low) quality of the guitar adds credence to the down and out blues song.

Get the best instrument you can afford, and play the peanuts out of it.

[CWRoyds]

Nope.
Keep your nice mandolin.
If you don't feel worthy of it, then practice and try to become more worthy.
It is easier to become a better player on a great instrument, IMHO.
Just play it and enjoy it.

I have many friends who are not at the same level as their instruments.
I just doesn't matter.
I am a believer in getting as good a mandolin as you can afford from the very beginning.
A better instrument inspires one to pay more.

[Eric Platt]

As a person who has sold many instruments because they were "too good" for me, will add my voice to say keep it. Over the years have gotten rid of many guitars and mandolins that I really should have kept.

[jdchapman]

Or, you can trade it and try something new. That's what I do. I more often lose a little money than make anything, but it's kept the hobby fun for me. I've gotten the chance to play and know a lot more instruments than if I'd insisted on holding on to them all. And every once in a while, I do make a little money, and that I spend on my wife.

[Mark Wilson]

A fine mandolin it is too. However, I am really a hack and just don't feel worthy playing it, especially at a jam or something. So I've been thinking maybe I should sell it and get a lesser mandolinIf it's easy to play and sounds good I'd keep it. Most pickers I've met understand the difficulty and don't pass judgements over someone having a nice instrument while still on a steep curve. If I suspected they did it would only make me more determined.

At one of the first jams I attended, a good picker asked if my Pava was a chinese brand. TBH I was embarrassed to have a nice mandolin at the time. I told him it was a $100 mandolin. He played it and said 'damn I gotta get one'

[dhergert]

Sell it and get a closet full of nice shoes.

159829

Come on... What do you really want out of life?

:mandosmiley:

[Narayan Kersak]

Remember, a good instrument is not just for making music, although that's even better if it does. A good instrument is also a work of art. I have way more instruments than I need, yet I do enjoy just admiring the quality. And that counts for some too... Although I've also found that really awesome instruments do encourage us to play them more. Maybe you'll find yourself getting lost for a few hours in the tone alone, before you know it, your a better musician even! If your going to have something, get the best you comfortably can, and love it as a music maker and as a work of art by a master artist in it's own right.

[catmandu2]

Yes, if you're going to maintain possession of some thing in this world, there are worse things. :)

[Mike Scott]

All great replies and thanks for the encouragement! Sorry to say my question really wasn't should I sell the SA and buy an Eastman 505 or something. I could make that decision on my own. Should not have even made the example part of the thread, although it did stimulate a good discussion.

So, to clarify, my question really was, "Is there such a thing as actual reverse MAS or do you think it is just MAS masquerading......? My opinion is that it's the latter.

[LadysSolo]

I think there is a "finding 'the one' and selling all your 'lesser mandolins,' " I don't know whether that's reverse MAS or just being finally satisfied with "the one." I personally will never live up to my Pava and Weber, but I will not part with them either, I enjoy them. But I still listen to great players and feel inferior, and keep trying....... :mandosmiley:

[Jess L.]

... At one of the first jams I attended, a good picker asked if my Pava was a chinese brand. TBH I was embarrassed to have a nice mandolin at the time. I told him it was a $100 mandolin. ...

:grin: :)

Luthiers are missing out on a business opportunity, ;) instead of doing the old-school thing of making counterfeit Gibsons, they could make counterfeit bottom-of-the-barrel instruments instead, peghead logos and all. The instruments would look intentionally awful, but sound fabulous. :grin:

If nothing else, there'd be fewer worries about it getting stolen. Might even get an insurance discount! "Yes, it's actually a $15,000.00 mandolin, but it was designed to look like a garage-sale reject with top sinkage that the dog's been chewing on after it fell off the edge of the boat and got water damage and dried out kinda disassembled and warped-like so we used it for a flowerpot out in the backyard for a while before junior here glued it back together and put strings on it..." :disbelief: :)) ;)

[F-2 Dave]

I've owned instruments far superior to my playing level for almost 40 years. You get used to it after a while.

[MikeZito]

If I had to get rid of all the instruments that I was not worthy of . . . I would be playing a shoe box with rubber bands on it . . . .

[Mark Wilson]

So, to clarify, my question really was, "Is there such a thing as actual reverse MAS or do you think it is just MAS masquerading......? My opinion is that it's the latter.Reverse MAS would be net fewer mandolins and extra cash in your pocket. Trading down one for one is a strain of the virus I'm not familiar with but I suspect in the end it's still just MAS. :)

[Bertram Henze]

The solution is SAS (skill acquisition syndrome), aka "practising" ;)

[Ivan Kelsall]

Mike - Keep it & enjoy the dickens out of it !. All 'good' mandolins 'sound good' & that in itself can be an inspiration to play. Collings & Weber instruments are good in their own right,but the ones you specified won't be quite as good as your Silverangel,& i'd bet that you'd regret selling it as well,
Ivan

[Michael Neverisky]

Maybe you'll find yourself getting lost for a few hours in the tone alone

This is the right metric. The only sensible thing is to own an instrument whose sound compels you to play. Ignore the name on the headstock. You might find more iinspiration elsewhere... even in a "downgrade" to a Collings.

[Mandoplumb]

You have MAS. In your first post you stated what you would do if you sold it and freed up some money. You would buy more mandolins. That is MAS. Reverse MAS would be if you would try to not acquire another or more mandolins. I don't think such an illness exists. The other part of your post is something that has bothered menfor some time, the idea that that we shouldn't own something we're not worthy of. That my friend is Marxisum, from each in his excess to each in his need, a concept I oppose. If you can afford it you are " worthy" of it IMHO

[jdchapman]

When the cases in the corner accumulate to the point where I have to make an effort to play them all, I clear a few out. Reverse MAS, I guess. Makes me feel virtuous.

Then I spend the money on something new.

[Caleb]

In high school I had a friend that sold his Mustang GT for a Nissan 240SX. But we are talking about mandolins....

Since mandolins are not ubiquitous like guitars, I've often thought the best mandolin is probably one I've never played. If I could get in a room with, say, 500 mandolins, and somehow I could spend time with them all, it's entirely possible that the "best one" (for me, my hands, ears, etc.) would be something I'd never expect.

I own a Collings, but it's entirely possible that out there somewhere is an Eastman, a Kentucky, a Mid Mo, or something I've never heard of that I would like better: but I will likely never come in contact with it. If that did happen, and I found an instrument that I genuinely liked better, I would not consider it reverse MAS or downgraded to get it. I would consider it common sense to get it.

[Loubrava]

To the OP, if that SA doesn't float your boat sell it and get something does. I'm not sure about MAS or reverse MAS or how a dollar value can be put on what you should be playing vs. your skill level IMO those 2 things don't matter. If you enjoy playing and it's your passion find a mando. you can't put down because of the tone and how it plays. I got lucky and it only took me 2 mandos to find it & I'll never sell it unless I stop playing. For the last year and I've been trying to find another mando. I'll like as much & I've bought and sold 2 more and test drove a few I guess thats MAS. Anyway don't let some clown at a Jam influence what type of mando. you play. I'd keep looking as it sounds like the SA isn't "the one" for you & if you downgrade and find "the one" let me know !

[UsuallyPickin]

An instrument that is better than I am a player constantly encourages me to make better use of it through diligent practice. It is always there to reward my improvement and ready to spur me on to greater effort. Somewhat like a good friend... one that doesn't drink your beer..... R/

[barry]

If everyone suddenly decided to only own instruments equal to their playing proficiency, the high end market would go into full meltdown.

[Br1ck]

If we had to pass a proficiency test to move up in quality, Ellis would go broke.

[Willie Poole]

There are folks that buy and sell instruments to try and make a profit so if you do decide to sell it price it real high and some sucker, er I mean buyer will pay it and then you can become a dealer in buying and selling instruments...I have always wished that I could get back every mandolin that I sold in the past but what would I do with all of them?.. A work of art? Maybe but they are made to be played, so PLAY IT...

[Mandoplumb]

I'll say it again MAS is mandolin acqurisition syndrome. If you want, long for, or constantly think about getting another mandolin you have MAS, no matter if that move is considered upgrade or downgrade. Those terms are just what money it takes to acquire it, has nothing to do with your perceived "value" or your disease.

[mandolin breeze]

And don't forget the "excuse" that works well in my tiny head . . . a good mandolin is going to appreciate in value over the years, so I'm just making a good investment and have the added benefit of actually using and enjoying my "investment" while it appreciates in value. I think I'll name it MIS.

[Mandoplumb]

And don't forget the "excuse" that works well in my tiny head . . . a good mandolin is going to appreciate in value over the years, so I'm just making a good investment and have the added benefit of actually using and enjoying my "investment" while it appreciates in value. I think I'll name it MIS.

I like that MIS,but in my case it would be musical investment syndrone. I own a variety of instrument that I really can't play but I mess around on them a little but I justify them as an investment, some or even worth a couple dollars more than I paid for them 10 or 12 years ago. If I can possibly live long enough they are going to make me some money.

[catmandu2]

The solution is SAS (skill acquisition syndrome), aka "practising" ;)

And subsumed in just *MusicAS* ... if it makes music - in any way or manner - why try to justify further? In many areas of the world instruments are treated much like furniture (itself of course a highly meaningful object) and other special and revered objects. My family always had the en vogue piano in the front room, though they didn't play, visitors occasionally played. Musical instruments are a very special item, tool, object d'art, etc, and folks value them across the spectrum: from eminent mythologic icon to the merest implement to accompany dance. I'm only part Scand but my house is like you might find in some tribal outland; mine are like furniture - theyre all around awaiting use. Get a fiddle and a box and when folks come over make a cajun sound. Get a steel guitar and as David Lindley says, "get you an amp..." make some fun!

*I should say, the rustic feel is restricted to only a small part of the house ; the rest of it is much more gentile, as my wife prefers ;)

[Sothoth]

After looking at the images on the back of those Silverangels, I'd be less worried about being a newbie in a jam and more worried about God thinking my fingers were unworthy to touch it or that if I had any bad thought the Mandolin would channel them straight to God's ear if I was holding it. :)

Just have fun with it, it's a beautiful instrument. You don't need to be a pro to be worthy of it. And like everyone else keeps saying, keep playing.

[mrmando]

MDS:LSE (Mandolin Divestment Syndrome: Low Self-Esteem)

May we all end up with better mandolins than we deserve, and work hard at improving our skills until we do deserve them (at which point it's time to get a better one).