NewToy

[J. Mark Lane]

Arrived today.

[J. Mark Lane]

Top.

[Eric F.]

A mando that ate too many Kripsy Kremes?
A cittern?
Proof that you have terminal MAS?

[J. Mark Lane]

Back.

[Eric F.]

Oh, you're such a tease.

[J. Mark Lane]

He he he.

OK, it's a...uh, it's a...uh...beats me.

Honestly, I don't know what it is. But it sure is cool.

I had Doug Dieter of Kennaquhair Instruments make this thing for me to my specs. It uses his version of a mandola body (large), but with a smaller soundhole, to emphasize bass response. It is a 17 inch scale. Then ten strings are tuned CGDAE (makes it easy for idiots like me who can't think beyond one tuning). It's a mandola, and a mandolin, all in one. A...mandolalin.

I had Doug put a zero fret on it, because I like the sound that gives. The back and sides are East Indian rosewood, the top sitka. The binding is also rosewood (subtle). Doug used his signature bridge/saddle (bone insert) and tailpiece (ebony on bronze). I requested "no dots" <g>. The guitar tuners are a nice extra when you go with a large enough headstock. I was really pleased that Doug bound the soundhole, too.

The sound? BOOMING! It is loud, it is clear, it is sweet. And it plays beautifully. Really, Doug set it up just right. I had asked him to make the neck as narrow as reasonably possible for a ten string, and he did it nicely. There's a very slight radius on the board.

Man, this thing is fun. I think it will become a daily player.

And yes, I have terminal MAS.

[Daniel Nestlerode]

I had Doug put a zero fret on it, because I like the sound that gives.
I have recently thought about zero frets and their mandolin application. I think it's a great idea:
1) Zero frets are easier to build than nuts because the location of the nut is no longer an issue. The nut becomes a string spacer.
2) Intonation and action at the low frets are more consistent with the rest of the neck.
3) Tone itself is more uniform as even the open strings will sound fretted. Which could lead to interesting chop chords!

If I had the disposable income right now, I'd commission an oval hole A with a zero fret. I just dying to see how it works out.

What do you think of it Mark?

Best,
Daniel

[J. Mark Lane]

I have had two guitars built with zero frets. I like them. Not on every instrument, and not for every sound. But for some things, I do like them (I have a Martin with a normal nut that I also love).

I'm not sure it would work well on a mandolin, although an oval hole A might work well. It gives a nice, ringing tone. I like it for that "Celtic" sound, in particular (although I'm not really sure what that sound is)....

Mark

[Dale Ludewig]

I've thought of doing a zero fret instrument for some time, as a test of sorts. Problem is that I buy my fingerboards preslotted and they're cut off at the nut end. I suppose I could glue some ebony on it front and then cut the slot. So much to do. Mark, I'll bet that is one wild thing to play.

[J. Mark Lane]

It really is, Dale. It just jumps into life. I am truly not worthy.

I am thinking Dan's idea of an oval-hole A with a zero fret might be interesting. Hey, Dan...and others...let's commission Dale to make a bunch of them. I'm in. Who else? You up for it, Dale?

Mark

[Mark Robertson-Tessi]

JML

Cool. I have one of his OMs and it a killer instrument. Yours looks real sweet. whats the lowest gauge string...

Cheers
Mark R-T

[Mark Robertson-Tessi]

JML

Cool. I have one of his OMs and it a killer instrument. Yours looks real sweet. whats the lowest gauge string...

Cheers
Mark R-T

[Daniel Nestlerode]

I'm not sure it would work well on a mandolin, although an oval hole A might work well. #It gives a nice, ringing tone. #I like it for that "Celtic" sound, in particular (although I'm not really sure what that sound is)....
Hmmm. That seems counter-intuitive to me. On a zero fret instrument every note sounds fretted because every note is fretted. That's why they work so well on jazz guitars like the ones that Harvey Leach makes. So I figured it would stand to reason that a zero fret would work equally well on a mando with F holes on which one would play a lot what MandoHack calls FFcP chords.

And I might indeed be up for a chance to commission a zero fret instrument early next year, especiallly if the price is right. Bu I won't know for a few weeks.

Dale, if you're getting your fretboards from Randy Allen just tell him I told you to ask him to leave a little wood on the top. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

And maybe we should take this idea over to the Builders/Repair forum?

Best
Daniel

[JEStanek]

Maybe its a Mando-Lane? It doesn't look mando-lame. I bet it sounds sweet.

Jamie

[J. Mark Lane]

Early next year? Dan, clearly you are not living with the same kind of MAS I have. I'm thinking of...early next week?

Jamie, yes, it really sounds great. I am frankly quite stunned. I expected good, but I didn't expect quite this good. Not for the kind of money Doug charges. I have played a few Sobells. I loved them. This thing is every bit the equal of those, imho.

[otterly2k]

Beautiful, Mark~! You'll have to fill us in further as you get used to playing the handful!

[GVD]

Why Mark why? Why did you have to post it where I would see it? Just when I thought I had my MAS under control you have to show me something cool like that. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

GVD

[Bob DeVellis]

Mark - very, very nice. The one challenge, it seems, with a 10-string is making both the lowest and the highest strings sound and feel right, so that the tone is full across the whole range and the string tensions are acceptable (high strings not breaking and low trings not flopping). How successful was this instrument at meeting that challenge? How did you arrive at the 17" scale?

[J. Mark Lane]

Yeah, I posted this just to taunt you guys. <g>

Bob, that is indeed the challenge. I spent a fair amount of time with Doug planning this instrument. Doug is very knowledgeable about things like scale lengths, string tensions, what's needed for a particular pitch, etc. This one goes 44, 30, 18, 13, 09. It works nicely. I was concerned that the .09 would be too small and get no volume. Doug explained that volume isn't necessarily just a function of string gauge. In fact, the volume is excellent, and it feels good across the board. It is balanced very nicely across the strings.

I have popped a couple of E strings, but it appears that was because of a slightly sharp edge on the nut just behind the zero fret. I think I've got that under control.

For me, the hardest part is figuring out how to play the thing <g>. I need to start thinking "larger" than GDAE, and I need to work up some chords that use the full range available to me. What a fun challenge!

[TommyK]

There is a South American instrument that vaguely resembles that, a Bandola or maybe a Banjdola. I saw it on a harp-guitar site. I'll go look for it.

[ira]

i don't know much about this stuff, but i have a mando from doug, and he even has some type of string tension thing on his website ( i can't make heads or tails of it), so he is really into figuring that stuff out.

[TommyK]

Arrived today.
Here 'tis BANDOLA (http://www.harpguitars.net/iconography/icon-gibson.htm)

Scroll down to the pics of "THE HERNANDEZ BROTHERS" #It has the same body. #It appears those Columbians like to hang long tassels (horse tails?) from their headstocks. #There's a couple - three pics. #The farthest right appears to be a program from a performance which names the instrument. #By my count in the pics, though, it is a 18 or 20 string instrument. #South American stringed, instruments, tiples, charangos and the like, have been known to be wholely of partially of triple courses. #... so maybe yours isn't a bandola, but the body shape is about right.

[Dale Ludewig]

Dan- I've been getting my mandolin fingerboards from StewMac- simply habit. I've gotten some mandola fingerboards from Randy. You're right- in fact, I think the mandola boards had wood in front of the nut "slot". Thanks for the idea. (Forehead slap here)

[meskalito]

Lovely.

[flairbzzt]

Living proof that there is no cure.

[mikeyes]

Mark,

I think that by default it is a five course cittern with a 17" scale since the term 'cittern' is so vague. If it had four courses and was tuned GDAE it would be an octave mandolin. But if you were in England it would be a tenor mandola but on this side a 10 string mandola. On the other hand it might not be. Come on, you are a lawyer, you're supposed to be able to figure these things out.

The reason I am so reluctant to be clear is that if you put that question on the CBOM list you would ignite a flame war. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif I don't want to be on a hit list.

[TommyK]

NOW WAIT JUST A CONCARN MINUTE MARK!
You, Mark, commissioned this blunderbuss. #I think it is upon you to give it a name... What is her name?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

A Markdola? #or a Mandolane? or, given it's voice you so eloquently described a Boomertwang! #It's up to you.

[ira]

hey mark,
what does doug call it???

[J. Mark Lane]

You guys are too much.

Anyway, Doug tended to refer to it as a "mandola" in our correspondence. But in the original discussion about designing it, I think he spoke of it as a cittern.

Truth is, it's probably best referred to as a cittern. As Mike says, a 17 inch cittern (doesn't cittern imply 5 course?). Whatever it is, it's a remarkable instrument. Doug had made somewhat similar instruments in the past. I think that guy has made about every combination of scale length and tuning imaginable. He's the guy to see if you want something "custom".

Oh, I do like "mandolane." I had it delivered to my office (no wife at the office, he he he), and that's what one of my partners called it. Suits me.

Mark

[TommyK]

...#I had it delivered to my office (no wife at the office, he he he),...Mark
Time was a man would have to hope his wife didn't show up at the office and see the secretary... But hiding instruments is hilarious. How are you going to explain that Markdolane and any others squirreled under the desk when you retire or get down sized?