View Full Version : 1922 F-4 converted to F-5 M.M. in ads
https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/112047#112047, as linked on the homepage
So let me get this straight (as the text in the ad is a bit unclear): the neck and 'face' (is this the mandolin top?) come from a 40's F-5, the rest from the 1922 F-4 (which, by process of elimination, would be the back, sides and perhaps hardware). Is this what you all see/understand here?
MikeEdgerton
Jun-17-2017, 2:06pm
The tuners are worm over F style tuners. They are from well after Loar left the building. That's one of those things I'd want to be able to hold in my hands and look at. I wonder who did the work?
William Smith
Jun-17-2017, 2:11pm
https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/112047#112047, as linked on the homepage
So let me get this straight (as the text in the ad is a bit unclear): the neck and 'face' (is this the mandolin top?) come from a 40's F-5, the rest from the 1922 F-4 (which, by process of elimination, would be the back, sides and perhaps hardware). Is this what you all see/understand here?
Thats how I took it Alan, I contacted the guy and he sent me some videos of him playing it, he said some well know person looked at it years ago and someone who knows old F-5's could verify it?!?!? and honestly it does sound pretty darn good, dry and old sounding but there is no documentation about the top/neck whatever else from a 40's F-5, the back wood sure isn't like a loar era F-4 as the serial # dictates. The peghead inlay is wrong for a 40's F-5, most all have Gibson straight with the fluer-de-lis, I've seen a few examples of the Gibson at slant with a fern but that was on an F-4,Carters has a 41 thats been modified and it has the Gibson at slant with a crude fern-I think this is a later inlay job also,so does another well known player/collector. Maybe if one had it in hands to really go over it but why the heck would ya sand off the 40's burst if it indeed was a 40's F-5? Phishy my friend Phishy-Just my thoughts on it.
I asked to see some close ups of the guard/hardware to see what year that stuff is but yet have seen it?
Timbofood
Jun-17-2017, 3:08pm
This raises as many questions as a coon hound has fleas! Not the least of which is "What is the asking price?"
Bob A
Jun-18-2017, 11:33am
Frankenmando.
If it was really cheap, that could overcome all the questionable aspects, assuming it was playable with no questionable structural issues. One can only wonder why it was put through all those changes.
William Smith
Jun-18-2017, 12:06pm
Frankenmando.
If it was really cheap, that could overcome all the questionable aspects, assuming it was playable with no questionable structural issues. One can only wonder why it was put through all those changes.
I hear ya, the video's he sent me show a great sounding mandolin! It does sound old but like I said without documentation? Who did it, I don't think its a John Duffey long lost F-2 conversion that I heard he did! Possible maybe but how would one tell! Something like that would be mentioned unless someone has something they have no clue about!
I strongly doubt the top and neck were fitted from 40's F-5. The top would not fit even between two mandolins from same batch after a decade or so withut significant gaps. The shape of scroll would be completely different AND 40's F-5s had WBW top binding whereas this one looks like sidebound with no wood missing on the scroll....
The ugly butchered f holes (partly hidden behind the srap) suggest rather crude DIY conversion...
William Smith
Jun-20-2017, 5:49am
I strongly doubt the top and neck were fitted from 40's F-5. The top would not fit even between two mandolins from same batch after a decade or so withut significant gaps. The shape of scroll would be completely different AND 40's F-5s had WBW top binding whereas this one looks like sidebound with no wood missing on the scroll....
The ugly butchered f holes (partly hidden behind the srap) suggest rather crude DIY conversion...
Right on, I agree-heavy modified:)
William Smith
Jun-20-2017, 6:16am
Right on, I agree-heavy modified:)
It still could be something but without documentation:disbelief: It also takes a trained eye to notice the difference so good call HoGO-Adrian. I know you've seen a few old ones;), love your signed F-5 plans/blueprints I got from Uncle Dick Smith. Now if only I had time to build one-now thats funny! All you great builders out there would have a kick out of my first attempt, BoyO' thats a funny piece of wood, real happy there is no pix and almost no proof of its existence:)) Yeh not good! inlay work wasn't bad though.
I still say it does sound pretty good! Wish I knew how to go into my files and first find the video's and post em!
"What is the asking price?"
Inquiring minds (hardly) want to know....
Jeff Mando
Jun-20-2017, 8:48am
This raises as many questions as a coon hound has fleas! Not the least of which is "What is the asking price?"
bluegrasser78 in another thread said he contacted the seller and they were asking $12K/best offer................
Timbofood
Jun-20-2017, 5:50pm
bluegrasser78 in another thread said he contacted the seller and they were asking $12K/best offer................
Hmmm, Thanks?
Something still seems "off" about the whole thing to me, for 12K I'd sure as shootin, buy one of several other wonderful pieces from some of the members.
I missed that price, thanks. I'm with Timbo....no how, no way.
William Smith
Jun-20-2017, 6:58pm
I missed that price, thanks. I'm with Timbo....no how, no way.
I'm with ya man, he said make an offer? It does actually sound pretty good but not 12G good for what it is with no real documentation!, Looks like a Birch back, I do know John Duffey did redo an old F-2 and put a top on her and the soundholes look exactly the same as Uncle Dick's John Duffey F-7 that John converted in the early 60's to play and record with. But I highly doubt it's the same horn!
For $12k you can buy nice vitage F-2 AND have it converted by Randy Wood or any other top luthier.
And perhaps even for less than 12k.... and you'll have some vintage parts to sell...
William Smith
Jun-21-2017, 6:17am
I'd rather go for an F-7 and have Randy do the work, no top needed, just new neck and a re-grad if ya want one. Some 7's sound fine as is but better with just neck or the works. I believe same size body as F-5 of the period-I've never measured. If the 7 was super clean I don't think I'd mess with it, my 3 all were played big time and show the age so it didn't bother me to have the work done. And then you have a Kool Great sounding pre-war F-5 sound for way less than half the price of a real F-5 from the 30's, well anyway from the production run of 7's from 33-39 I think.
Jeff Mando
Jun-21-2017, 9:03am
I'd rather go for an F-7 and have Randy do the work, no top needed, just new neck and a re-grad if ya want .................................................. then you have a Kool Great sounding pre-war F-5 sound for way less than half the price of a real F-5 from the 30's, well anyway from the production run of 7's from 33-39 I think.
Well...........not like you find a bunch of 30's F-7's around, and when you do they certainly aren't cheap.....???? And then to use one as a building block for more expensive labor???? I'm trying to follow ya, really, and I like crazy modified stuff, but personally I'm not sold vs the amount of cash outlay required -- A LOT, IMHO. I guess we are talking relatively speaking and hypothetically, right?
Cheaper than a Loar, certainly. In the days if John Duffey, sure things were dirt cheap back then, why not do some hillbilly modifications? The stakes are higher now. Same with Clapton buying THREE 50's strats in Nashville in the early 70's and taking them apart to make one GOOD one, you could do that back then when they were $150 each and nobody wanted one........and you can do a strat with a screwdriver and a soldering iron....
Cool stuff for sure, and if it helps you make great music even better! Reminds me somewhat of the guys who make the "General Lee" clones and GTO lookalikes from similar bodied "passenger" cars..........
I do give ya points for "going vintage" and trying to "unlock" the F-5 myth and still keep things Gibson, more or less.....
Jim Hilburn
Jun-22-2017, 10:42am
Doing conversions made some sense back when there were more players than good mandolins to go around. But what do you gain today? No way to add value by changing an old instrument, it's still not an F5.
William Smith
Jun-23-2017, 5:29am
I agree with last 2 posts completely, my conversions, the original 7's I got on the cheap years ago because they had wear etc...not pristine, I wouldn't convert an old one that was nice. and for some reason they sound great, while a lot of low and higher end mandolins came they also went. Just didn't sound as good as my 7's. Even the 36 fern I just got sounds great it's not as good as my one 7 in volume, tone is different also but we all know tone is different in all of em. I've got a lifer mandolin in my one 7 and I'm completely happy with it.