Please help me identify my mandolin

[edwardd3]

Hi All,
I recently acquired an 8 string bowl back mandolin which is ornately decorated in what I understand to be mother of pearl, and has a heart shape cut out at the top of the wooden headstock. However there are no identification markers present. The sellers believed the mandolin is from the 1900s and suggested it could have been made by Pietro Ruffini, however I have searched online but cannot find a mandolin similar to the one I have.

I came across your forum and believe you may be able to help me find out more about it.
It would be highly appreciated if you are able to help me identify my mandolin.
Many Thanks! 157444157443

[allenhopkins]

The headstock is shaped like the one on this Ditson Empire mandolin (https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?100599-c-1910-Ditson-quot-Empire-quot-Bowlback-Mando&p=1221807&viewfull=1&styleid=10) that Jake Wildwood showed on the Cafe in 2013. That's a bit helpful, but not dispositive, since Ditson was a dealer who commissioned instruments from a variety of manufacturers (C F Martin, for one).

Jake's theory is that Ditson's Empire mandolins were built either by Vega or the Larson brothers, with his opinion leaning toward the Larsons. You might want to PM him and discuss his ideas. Yours is extremely ornate, which usually implies a top-of-the-line instrument.

There are Martin mandolins from the period 1895-1920 that have very similar headstocks (Mike Longworth, Martin Guitars: A History, pp. 80-83), but I don't see one depicted with a pickguard shaped like yours; Martins had a pretty standard "batwing" pickguard, at least as pictured in their catalogs. And the higher-model Martin mandolins, which might have had as much body decoration as yours, also had headstock inlays, which yours lacks. Martin also built mandolins for Ditson (Longworth, p.112), but there are few records of their design.

So I'm guessing American made, 1895-1920, rather than Neapolitan. The Ruffini mandolins I've found via Google don't have the same headstock or pickguard profiles, though they do exhibit a variety of ornamentation that's similar to yours. Do you know why the sellers thought it might have been made by Ruffini?

Hopefully, one of the real bowl-back experts will chime in soon.

[edwardd3]

Hi Allen,

Thank you for your reply. I will contact Jake Wildwood to see if he is able to shed any more light on who possibly made my mandolin and its history. I was hoping it would have some kind of identification marker on it but unfortunately I cannot see anything on the inside of the mandolin nor inside of the case.

The sellers did not have much knowledge about the mandolin, they were told by a friend/ potential buyer that it could possibly be a Ruffini mandolin. However I have googled it and like yourself have found that although Ruffini's are quite ornate, they don't have the same headstock or pickguard profiles. I have actually struggled to find a mandolin with a heart shape cut out on the headstock.

I look forward to finding out more about my mandolin, and will keep you posted!

Regards
Danielle

[brunello97]

This is a curious one.... I disagree with our good friend, Allen. I don't think this is a Ditson / Vega made mandolin. Some things look very Italian (double row of inlay around the top) and the curved treatment of the fretboard as it meets the soundhole. The later is rarely seen on US mandolins--and when it is it seems to be from the very ex-pat Italian hands.

The tuners are worm-over....which is rarely seen on Ditsons or Vegas, etc. Ditson tended to spec inset tuners. Okay, they could have been somehow flipped. But they look like Italian tuners--with a rivet rather than a screw. The general countenance--dark rosewood bowl, general shape, unveneered neck, etc. certainly do look American, as Allen no doubt sussed.

I think the bridge is simply mislocated rather than being the "Vega (aka Ditson) smoking gun". Lord help me, it is not a Larson. So please, please don't go there....

I agree with Allen, it doesn't look like any of the Ruffinis I have in my files which feature many iconic Neapolitan features..in particular the very thin fretboard and classic body shape.

Like Quasimodo, I have a hunch in that it is US made by a very recently arrived Italian mandolin maker--maybe working in someone else's shop. Of course, I'm often, okay, very often, wrong. I'd be interested in what my esteemed colleagues think.

Mick

[edwardd3]

Hi Mick,

Thanks for taking the time to look at my mandolin and for your suggestions.

With regards to the tuning pegs, I may be mistaken but from what the seller said I think a previous owner may have replaced them at some point in an attempt to try and restore it.

I agree, after searching google for any type of information I could acquire about my mandolin, I think it could be Italian made, or like you say made by an Italian luthier who was based in the USA hence the mix between some Italian and American features which I find interesting.

It's a shame there are no identification markers present but it all adds to the intrigue around it. It may be the case that we never know who actually made it, but it's very ornate, especially with the mother of pearl and tortoise shell decorations and it looks really nice.

Any more suggestions will be more than welcome!

Danielle

[Bruce Clausen]

Nice looking find, Danielle! I can't help wondering though (like Mick) about that bridge. It isn't sitting where we expect to see the bridge on a canted top. Does the mandolin play in tune? And is the action comfortable? If so, it's in keeping with the builder's design and everything is fine. But sometimes people will move a bridge. Twelfth fret should be very close to halfway from nut to bridge. If it isn't, there may be a structural problem that caused someone to move the bridge down past the crease in order to lower the action. In that case tuning gets worse as you go up the neck.

Yes, it's surprising how many beautiful old mandolins are completely anonymous. If only they could talk...

[Edit: looking at photo again with a ruler, bridge position looks correct. No, incorrect; those dots were confusing me!]

[edwardd3]

Hi Bruce,

Thank you! The moment I saw the mandolin the ornate mother of pearl decoration just appealed to me!

I actually play the guitar and ukulele, this is my first and only mandolin which I only purchased a couple of days ago so I will be teaching myself how to play it.
I have tried to tune the mandolin as best as I can, and most of the strings are relatively in tune but I have a feeling I need new strings. The action is comfortable, I prefer low action on my guitars and the action feels ok on the mandolin.

It is in good condition despite its age, which the general consensus agrees on over 100 years old. However it needs a good clean, but I'm afraid I will damage it so am quite reluctant to attempt anything! Maybe you, or anyone else on this forum could suggest something I could use to clean and patch it up?

Yes, if only it could talk, I'm sure it must have had quite an interesting history!

Danielle