What if?

[DataNick]

This post from a different thread has elicited many conflicting emotions within me:


A Loar ('24, with a Virzi) was recently purchased for 20 bucks at a California flea market...
...and no, I'm not kidding.

WHY?

Because I am now officially in the ranks of starving musician, having fallen from the grace of IT Analyst and having been forced to take 2 part-time jobs at a local AutoZone, and a gas station mini-mart.

Apparently the possibility of happening upon a Loar still exists, so I am conflicted with my hypothetical response. In my present financial situation a Loar would certainly solve just about all my problems, even selling one at a bargain basement price. Would I do that and buy a Gil, Nugget, Red Diamond or a real good 20s Fern or 30s F5 or would I stubbornly try to ride out the present financial hole and hold on to the Loar.

There's no bad answer, if you feel like sharing, I'm curious what you'd do.

I'm a pretty stubborn guy so I'm leaning in the direction of keeping it if I was the lucky chap to happen upon one at a flea market.

As always, YMMV

[fscotte]

Uh... riiiight.

I'd be hard pressed believe that happened. $20 for anything old with the name Gibson is far fetched.

[jaycat]

The only thing I've ever found for $20 at a flea market was a beat-up Hagstrom electric guitar that wouldn't stay in tune and had more knobs and switches than a flying saucer.

PS - sorry to hear about the job loss.

[DataNick]

I know Bruce personally, and I really don't think he's lying; especially when he emphasized ..."I'm not kidding"

[guidoStow]

Sorry about your change in circumstances. I hope things go your way soon!

[DataNick]

Sorry about your change in circumstances. I hope things go your way soon!

No worries! There's a lot of folks worse off than I am; and in a weird sort of way, I'm kinda OK with being in the ranks of financially struggling musician...kinda adds authenticity to my craft...I don't expect this to last too long...

But the bigger question I'd still like to hear opinions on, is would you keep the Loar?

[Upis Land]

My opinion?.... who has time to scrounge through the landfill fodder of flea markets. If you really buy into that type of lottery mentality, then you can just waste your money on lottery tickets. Better the satisfaction of having something of value that you know you earned.

But if I did happen upon a Loar I would feel through the decision then. 'Cause really there is no way to know how you would handle the situation until it becomes real.

So yeah, I would keep it.

[V70416]

"From my cold,dead hands"...

[FLATROCK HILL]

Hi Nick, As I'm sure you noticed in that other thread, I'm curious about the details of that story. Certainly not questioning the honesty of Spruce/Bruce. Without knowing the details of the real story, only the scenario I've imagined in my own head, I have given it some thought.

First of all, I'l like to think I'd be decent enough not to take unfair advantage of a private seller, you know...the little old lady who finds a L.L. in the closet. In the case of a flea market however, I'd say all bets are off. Sellers in that situation should know what they're selling. If they don't, shame on them. The mere mention of the fact that the item might be slightly under priced might lead to the seller having second thoughts about the sale. Also, in the flea market situation, you either snooze or you lose. So, I guess I'd buy and keep quiet. Maybe be generous to the seller later on, after the deal is final and the dust has settled.

Then Nick, I'd take my sweet time deciding whether to keep it or sell it for the reasons you mentioned above. I've been in your situation a time or two. Things will work out. The last thing yould want to do is regret some hasty decision.

Good luck and best wishes with everything...including that flea market find!

Clark

[mtm]

jobs come and go... a 24 Loar? Not so much...

[NursingDaBlues]

First of all, I commend you for grabbing hold of your boot straps and doing what you have to do to support yourself. (And don’t worry. I’m not going to hijack this thread to editorialize on what I think of people who would rather not work at all than take a job that is “beneath them.”) I wish you luck and success in finding the vocation that you truly desire.

Now, on to your question: If I were to be in possession of a flea-market find Loar, I would do everything to keep it…unless my family needed to be fed, I was in danger of losing my home, or a loved one needed some type of medical treatment, and my musicianship just wasn’t sufficient to take care of expenses of this nature.

Why try to keep it? Because, for me, an LL is iconic. Right, wrong, or indifferent, it’s the mandolin that Bill Monroe chose to play and create mandolin history. It’s the mandolin that set the standard for all the other F5 designs to this day. It’s the instrument that stimulated modern day interest in mandolins –if nothing else through the well-known artists that play an LL F5 and its successors. And in a roundabout way, it’s what brought me into the mandolin fold. I’d love to have that kind of history in my hands every day.

[dhergert]

Yes, very sorry to hear about the job misfortune Nick. Are you looking elsewhere for work more consistent with your career path yet?

Regarding the $20 Loar... Having spent some time in my naive young adulthood in the '70s with a very aggressive instrument bargain hunter, I tend to feel sorry for the storied folks who sold this particular instrument for $20. I'd like to think there's a way to deal with this kind of thing that is more fair and equitable to both the seller and the buyer. And just because it is being sold at a flea market doesn't mean the seller isn't grandma whose hubby left it for her under their bed.

I may not be able to pay full market value for something like this, but I'd like to pay enough so when the seller realizes what they had, they don't feel like they got cheated.

Can you imagine how you would feel having something worth $200K in your junk pile and selling it for $20? I've seen the faces of people who have had that happen, it isn't pretty.

These days, more likely what I'd end up doing if I fell upon some seller with an item like this, is to let them know what they really have, and try to line them up with a fully qualified buyer who could pay the seller what the item is really worth. That way I could walk away without feeling guilty.

That's just me, I'm not trying to set any guidelines here.

[JeffD]

I would never keep the Loar. Assuming it was not compromised and sounded good, I would play it for many months and take tons of pictures, but I would sell it at the first opportunity. I would then buy a couple of highest end mandolins from modern makers, and with the rest of the money buy a small country.

I don't want to own anything with that much publicized value. I don't want to worry about theft, or damage, or even normal wear. I would have this big sigh of relief every time I put it back in its humidity controlled lock box.

The only thing that kind of makes sense is to keep it, insure it to the hilt, and rent it out to first class musicians on tour or recording. I would get to meet a lot of great musicians who I wouldn't otherwise, and if I planned it right, the money would cover the insurance, routine maintenance, and other costs and maybe even make a little profit for my efforts.

[T.D.Nydn]

I'd sell it in a heartbeat....

[Beanzy]

Well I'd never dream of buying one at the kind of price they seem to sell at nowadays, but I'd probably stretch to $20 to see what it's like :D
I'd play it for long enough to get used to it, then decide if I liked it more than what the money could deliver.
It takes time for me to really find out the ins and outs of an instrument.

[Steve Ostrander]

Geez, I'd be tickled to find a Strad-O-Lin at a flea market for $20....

[Tobin]

I'd keep the Loar and play it, unless I just had to sell it to put food in my mouth or keep a roof over my head.

I think that over time it would just be a mandolin. People tend to glamorize these things when talking about them from a distance, but if you owned one, it wouldn't take long before you realize it's just a mandolin. You won't be mobbed by hordes of attractive young women when you leave the house with it, and you won't have paparazzi hanging around waiting to take your photo. It won't glow and produce the sound of singing angels when you open the case. Your neighbors likely won't know or even care about your high-dollar mandolin. Even the folks you play with will eventually get used to it.

For obvious reasons, you'd want to be careful as to where you take it, what you do with it, how you store it, and so forth. But it's an instrument that's meant to be played, and if you like the sound of it, there's no reason not to do so.

[NursingDaBlues]

You won't be mobbed by hordes of attractive young women when you leave the house with it, and you won't have paparazzi hanging around waiting to take your photo. It won't glow and produce the sound of singing angels when you open the case.

Darn.

[Bill Snyder]

I would sell it and share the proceeds.

[sgarrity]

I'd keep it and play the heck out of it but I'd have given them $100! :mandosmiley:

[JeffD]

You won't be mobbed by hordes of attractive young women when you leave the house with it, and you won't have paparazzi hanging around waiting to take your photo. .

Having a Loar will stop all that? Then I would definitely sell it. :)

[Spruce]

I wish it would have happened to you, Nick...

Meanwhile, I'm a little uncomfortable for bringing it up, as it ain't my deal...
But I'm sure we'll all hear the story in due time...

[Mark Gunter]

No way to be sure how that would play out, Nick, but my first thought is to sell it, buy a couple really nice instruments, and invest the balance elsewhere. But I really like Jeff's idea of renting it out.

All the best to you, Nick.

[Jeff Mando]

From my perspective.......
I have spent most of my life searching for collectibles/antiques/rare stuff/instruments......because I think it is fun, a good way to kill time, and usually the stuff I buy is worth more than I pay for it and even if I wholesale something, I am still making a profit. I think the first record price guide came out when I was 14 or so, picture a time before the internet, also picture listings of records with print much smaller than the newspaper or even a bible.....I think I all but memorized that price guide. Why records?, well, compared to instruments, you can almost daily find a record for 25 cents that is worth $100 or so. It is almost impossible to find instruments with that same rate of gain. My first mega-score was an Elvis promotional 45 that was in the price guide for $700 and I found it at the local Goodwill for 15 cents. Well, buying and selling are two different things, and I didn't get $700 for it, but I DID get $140 for it. Well, I was hooked..............

Over the years I have found countless items that I quickly resold to pay the rent, etc. Probably sold quickly so I wouldn't have a chance to bond with them, and also because the fun for me was the search, not the selling. And, being a person a average means, I had to keep what money I had in circulation. Keep in mind, to do that you have to work on it daily with extreme focus. To this day, if I run to Walmart, I will stop at 5 pawn shops, a music store, a thrift store and a flea market on the way, you know, multi-tasking. Fast forward 45-50 years and while I did great, I never got the big score that would set me up for life! I was always hoping through connections, etc., I would "find" a house priced for a song.........I found many "maybe" type deals, but never the one. When it came to buying a house, I paid retail, like everybody else. Disappointing, IMHO. Nice house, though.

OK, here's my take on the flea market. It represents a "series of filters" that an item must go through before it is offered for sale to the public. As mentioned before, the Gibson name is a pretty good filter that even most non-musicians have heard of. Let's say the flea market seller was inexperienced and never heard of a Gibson, highly unlikely, but let's say. Let's say he bought the mandolin at an auction. Another filter for the item to pass through. First, the auctioneer is certainly experienced and would know brand names, the chance of an auctioneer never hearing of a Gibson is probably about zero, IMHO. Second, the audience at the auction is another larger filter, what are the odds, that even if some of them had heard of a Gibson, that it would go cheap? OK, the flea market seller wins the auction and takes it to the flea market to resell. WHAT IS THE FIRST THING HE IS GOING TO DO? He is going to look it up on eBay or the internet to get a price, right? Would a search tell him ANY Gibson F-5 is worth only $20? No, of course not. So, not to say it doesn't happen, but it is unlikely he would sell it that cheap, unless he was not motivated by normal healthy human greed! OK, let's say he didn't buy it at an auction. He got it at a yard sale. Another filter would be the person selling it would remember how much they paid for it originally and how dear it was. Assuming, he sold it for $20, he would have to buy it for LESS THAN $20 at the yard sale, again an unlikely scenario. Other options are he found it on the side of the road, for free. Again, unlikely. A co-worker gave it to him. Possible. It was in his family. Again, possible. I do believe Spruce and I believe that weird, unlikely things do happen -- in fact, I live for those moments!

While I never found anything as great as a Loar, I have basically made a living flipping instruments and collectibles. I found a limited edition Elvis model tribute guitar at a pawn shop for $100 and sold it on eBay for $2500. I found a Haynes silver flute at a flea market for $35 and sold it for $3200. I found a rare rockabilly 45 for a dime and sold it for $1600. (I say a dime, because I bought a box of 300 for $10 and it was in there, along with several other $100 records!) So, it happens, but you have to work at it. I have bought many, many instruments for $1000-2000 and doubled my money on them, but somehow that just isn't as much fun as getting something for pennies on the dollar, at least in my way of thinking. When I was in college there was a pawn shop on the road to my parents, and I can't tell you how many times I bought a $100 guitar there and later resold it for $250-300. Again, you have to work it pretty hard. It becomes what you do. I also have told myself, EVERYTIME I get a great deal, it makes it that much harder to find one at that price again. Just common sense.

What would I do with a Loar? I would play it for a month, then remind myself I'll never be a Thile or Monroe, and sell it having known that I got to briefly own a cool thing! Again, this is me at my age. The money would go into a retirement account. Now, if I was 20 and just starting my "so-called career" in music all over again, I would keep the Loar! No doubt about it.

I'm like you, Nick those stories are frustrating to hear. And, I'm saying that as a person who has spent a lifetime trying to be at the right place at the right time. But, I'm thinking there is a 99.9 percent chance that the $20 flea market Loar will come up for sale again, no, not for $20, but at current retail and probably offered by one of the advertisers here.

Good luck with everything, Nick! :mandosmiley:

[MikeZito]

I think JeffD began to hit the nail on the head . . . the real question is 'What kind of condition is the Loar in?'

About 10 years ago the music store across the street from where I work (yes, it is VERY dangerous to your bank account to have a music store directly across the street from where you work), got in a Loar A-style mandolin. Naturally, I had to run over there as fast as I possibly could to see and play the thing. To be concise - it was a piece of junk! It played like a beast, even at the first few frets. The price on the mandolin was astonishingly low, but I have no doubt that it would have cost a small fortune to have it restored. I actually did consider selling some stuff to buy it, and using it as a display piece, just to say that I had a 'Loar' - but quickly thought otherwise . . . especially since it was essentially unplayable. Needless to say, the mandolin was gone the very next day.

So, the long answer to the short question is - yes, I would keep the Loar (even if it was a junker) until things got to the point that I absolutely HAD to sell it.

About 3 or 4 years after that incident, I did get to play a Loar f-5 (that formerly belonged to New England bluegrass legend Joe Val) and it was sweet. That was my last brush with a Loar . . .

[wooq]

I'd sell it. It should be in a museum or the hands of a much-more-talented musician than I. Then I'd use the money to buy a whole truckload of less-collectible musical equipment.

[LadysSolo]

I would probably sell it. I do not play well enough to keep a Loar, and it should go to someone who would. That said, I like to go to auctions on occasion, just to see what I can get for a bargain, and I bought an absolutely WONDERFUL sounding violin (that I also don't play well enough to deserve) for $150.00. The daughter of the person whose property was being auctioned demonstrated, and when I got it home, it played much better and sounded much better than my original violin, so it was all good. So I would have just a little guilt for getting a Loar for $20, but not too much. It is kind of on the seller to do their "homework."

[EdHanrahan]

What was that line? You know, the one that went something like:

"He once had a fortune but spent most of it on wine, women, and mandolins. The rest he just wasted."

[FLATROCK HILL]

I think JeffD began to hit the nail on the head . . . the real question is 'What kind of condition is the Loar in?'

About 10 years ago the music store across the street from where I work (yes, it is VERY dangerous to your bank account to have a music store directly across the street from where you work), got in a Loar A-style mandolin. Naturally, I had to run over there as fast as I possibly could to see and play the thing. To be concise - it was a piece of junk! It played like a beast, even at the first few frets. The price on the mandolin was astonishingly low, but I have no doubt that it would have cost a small fortune to have it restored. I actually did consider selling some stuff to buy it, and using it as a display piece, just to say that I had a 'Loar' - but quickly thought otherwise . . . especially since it was essentially unplayable. Needless to say, the mandolin was gone the very next day.

I'll take a leap here and assume you meant 'Loar period A-style'.

Beat to death, unplayable or not...the next "Loar A-style mandolin" you come across might be of interest to some of us.

[Tobin]

I'd sell it. It should be in a museum or the hands of a much-more-talented musician than I. Then I'd use the money to buy a whole truckload of less-collectible musical equipment.
Seeing a Loar-signed F5 go into a museum, never to be played, would be a tragedy. Not as much as it being destroyed or lost, but it would still be a loss to the musical world, in terms of it not being out there playing music.

Chris Thile has the right attitude on this, as he mentioned in an interview a few years ago. These are meant to be played, not stared at! Get them repaired, restored, get the fret spacing corrected, and make music with them.

[JEStanek]

If some dude was just selling an actual Loar signed instrument at a Yard sale for $20 I would likely buy it but, I'm not sure. Some little old lady, I would probably tell her what she had. There's zero chance I would keep it. I would turn it into as much cash as possible to pay for kids' college and travel for my wife and I.

Jamie

I always feel bad for wanting to buy it for $20 and likely wouldn't. I would likely have to tell the person because that's the right thing to do... stupid morals.

[DataNick]

Friends, Romans, and Countrymen:

First off thank you for all the well wishes. I am not destitute, just a little humbled, but thankful nonetheless. I have pretty good health, lots of friends, family, etc. and most people have a lot worse life than I do in SoCal. As an example, I just ran into a former co-worker from 3 years ago who at 6'4" and about 235 lbs rode a Harley, etc. Well he's developed Parkinsons and it's not pretty as he shuffles while ambulating, tremors, etc. so I really do count my blessings! I didn't mean to stir the sympathy pot, just was being honest in regards to the hypothetical situation, which would be different if I was grossing $85K.

Secondly, finding a Loar at a flea market was not my raison d'etre...I believe I said if you happened upon a Loar, so please don't restrict you thoughts to a flea market scenario. This is kinda like the kobayashi maru, there is no wrong response from my vantage point. Also I have been assured by Spruce that this really did happen, he's just being sensitive to the person involved to respect their privacy.

My further thoughts on the flea market scenario is that I would buy it for $20, but if I kept it, I would pay the seller some kind of honorarium fee monthly, or if I sold it, a percentage of the profits.

Carry On with the responses!

[Mark Miller]

I wouldn't end up keeping it, that's for sure. Not because I wouldn't want to, but because my family has greater needs than for me to have a 175k mandolin. I would play it a little, not enough to get attached, and then sell it and buy a real nice mandolin and a real nice banjo and put the rest towards paying down the mortgage so we don't have to sell our house when our son enters college. Unless it was a total piece of junk that was in such bad condition it was only worth a couple hundred dollars (which, for a Loar, would probably mean that it was basically just a few pieces of wood held together by duct tape and chicken wire.) Then I would keep it just to own a piece of history.

The real question, as several people have said, is what about the person who is selling it. If they seem anything other than really well off, I would have trouble not telling them. If they looked pretty darn comfortable, well....I would probably fail the ethics test.

[billkilpatrick]

Ah-ooo-lord ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WCFUGCOLLU

[MikeZito]

Sorry Flatrock (and everyone else):

I need to learn to re-read my posts more carefully - especially when I get called away in the middle of it.

Anyhow - I was told by someone who (obviously) didn't know mandolins that they had an A-style Loar in the shop across the street - which is one of the reasons why I ran over there ASAP to see if it was a one-of-a-kind rarity. The mandolin that I played was an actual Loar-signed instrument . . . and in HORRIBLE shape.

[Charles E.]

Ah-ooo-lord ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WCFUGCOLLU

Good old Steve, rhymes "Texas, taxes and facts is". Ah-ooo.

Nick, to your question, I would play the Loar (if playable) for a bit and then sell it. I have the mandolins I want at the moment but could use the cash towards retirement.

[William Smith]

Well buddy, I feel your pain, I used to own a restaurant then after a mysterious illness being misdiagnosed for 10 years, My body is shot! Finally after open heart at 36 y,old getting better but pry never be right I'd for sure keep that elusive find and keep on a truckin. $ is just something that gets in the way.
Like you said some folks are in far worse shape, I agree, I was on the verge of death a few times, no joke seriously and while I do have some decent horns I thought about selling but the thought of what the next day might bring kept me from it, was in my womans hand anyway if it got that bad, happy I stuck it out. But whatever my finances were if I came across a Loar or something close I would've kept it and enjoyed it with whatever time I had. There is always an upside to everything. Keep that head up, good things always come back around.

[DataNick]

Uh... riiiight.

I'd be hard pressed believe that happened. $20 for anything old with the name Gibson is far fetched.

Sorry, but you're way off base on this one!


Bruce sent me a PM about it and here's Bruce's response from another thread:


Within the last month or so...true story.
I'll let the person(s) involved tell the tale with all the details, if they so wish...
...or not.

I can guarantee you, it's the ultimate dream of everyone here...

[JeffD]

I wouldn't end up keeping it, that's for sure. Not because I wouldn't want to, but because my family has greater needs than for me to have a 175k mandolin..

That is a great point, and perhaps the most important point. I didn't think of it, but you are right on.

I don't have the kind of life where $200,000 can be tied up in a mandolin. Or to say it another way, the changes in my life that a infusion of $200,000 would make would be gigantic, and much (much much much) more important to my health and happiness, to say nothing of my continued musical life, than the mandolin could ever be.

Keeping a $200,000 mandolin is the same as spending that amount on a mandolin. And keeping it means that really, you have had enough financial success that an infusion of another $200,000 would not make as much difference as acquiring the mandolin. Or to say it another way, given the cash, free and clear, you would spend it on the mandolin.

In which case you are successful indeed, and I want to interview you.

[DataNick]

That is a great point, and perhaps the most important point. I didn't think of it, but you are right on.

I don't have the kind of life where $200,000 can be tied up in a mandolin. Or to say it another way, the changes in my life that a infusion of $200,000 would make would be gigantic, and much (much much much) more important to my health and happiness, to say nothing of my continued musical life, than the mandolin could ever be...

To be fair Jeff, if you've been following this thread So what is the real value of a Loar in today's world (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?127085-So-what-is-the-quot-real-quot-value-of-a-Loar-in-today-s-world), the Loar cognoscenti have determined the current real value closer to $100K; still not chump change, but not $200K either...Carry On...

[Ivan Kelsall]

Whether we'd keep or sell such a find depends on several things IMO. Firstly,it's condition. 1) Does it require work done on it to make it playable ? = lots of cash outlay to start with. If it does,we either fork out the cash or sell it on 'as seen' & leave it to the buyer = end of problem. If it's already in decent playing order,we simply ask for more cash. 2) If we decide to keep it,are we going to be comfortable with owning a mega-buck mando. ?. Some folk don't care to own high value items simply because of the risk of theft etc. 3) Are we good enough as a mandolin player to warrant having such a valuable mandolin ?. Some folk might keep it even if they could hardly play,others might decide to sell it & buy a mandolin more suited to 'their' talent.
Other factors such as financial situation comes into play as well - but let's say that the finder is financially sound.

If it was me - i honestly don't know !. If the mandolin was in good,playable condition & maybe only needed a relatively small amount of cash spending on it,i'd keep it for a while & try to make a sensible decision. I wouldn't hesitate to take it 'out to play',but i wouldn't be broadcasting to all & sundry that i owned a ''Lloyd Loar'' mandolin,for most folk,''a Gibson is a Gibson'',until you tell 'em different.
It would have to be something very special to make me keep it it think. If it really was so much 'better' than any other mandolin i ever came across,then 'maybe' i would keep it & enjoy it. If not,i'd sell it & buy another mandolin - a nice Gibson F5L would do,
Ivan;)

[dang]

If I had the money to take it to a good luthier and get it playable, sure I would play it.
Since that would cost so much I would probably have to sell it to get the cost back in the long run, but it would be fun for a while...

[William Smith]

Another thing, I believe they are still out there just like some of the elusive models like prewar F-7's,10's and 12's. Many uncounted for by certain #'s in some recent mando books, and look at the Loar serial #'s, there are some missing in relating to a bunch of #'s then maybe skip one and start up the sequence again with Loar F-5's! To me stands to reason one # missing in order would be a missing Loar? I may be wrong.
In about 2000-2002 there was a Loar found almost in my back yard at an estate sale in Northeast PA, thats in western PA about 35 miles from my house, close to Erie PA! that was sold for 800bucks!, I know it was a 23, don't know serial# without looking in archive to find it. It was in some widows husbands gun cabinet as the story goes, someone got a Krazzzzzzzzzzy deal!! I talked with a well known collector who bought it from whoever found it but he paid quite a bit more, whatever they were going for at that time, my guess 60G?

[Timbofood]

Well, I think, should the opportunity arise (:grin:) for me.... Buy, enjoy, sell, enjoy something else.
As for "underemployment", After "being retired" from a profession which, in the time I have been away has changed so much I'm not sure I would really want to go back into it. I have spent the last several years looking for gainful employment and had lousy luck.
It has allowed more time to pick though!

[Tobin]

Keeping a $200,000 mandolin is the same as spending that amount on a mandolin. And keeping it means that really, you have had enough financial success that an infusion of another $200,000 would not make as much difference as acquiring the mandolin. Or to say it another way, given the cash, free and clear, you would spend it on the mandolin.

I disagree. Getting a $200,000 mandolin (or $150,000) for virtually nothing is not the same as spending that money. If it didn't cost you anything but chump change at a flea market, then that's what it really cost you. Just because you *could* turn it into cash doesn't mean you're being irresponsible with your money. There is no universal grand onus on you to immediately dispose of it, unless you're in dire straits and living the kind of lifestyle that isn't sustainable.

The real question is whether you are living within your means, and whether you are on the right course with your debt, retirement plan, etc. If you have an established budget and have your finances under control, there's no reason to feel guilty about holding on to a high-value instrument that didn't cost you anything close to what it's worth.

I mean, it would obviously be up to each individual to decide whether it's in their best financial interest to liquidate that asset and use the funds for something else that would make their lives more comfortable and secure. But I think we tend to want to punish ourselves, or deny ourselves nice things in our musical hobby, because we all feel the burden of responsibility for taking care of our families first. I get that. But I would stop short of equating the mere possession of a high-dollar instrument with the actual spending of high-dollar money on it.

I'm not wealthy by any means, but I do feel comfortable enough with my finances where an extra infusion of $200,000 in the form of a Loar F5 would not be "life changing". Sure, I could pay off my mortgage and find something mundane and utilitarian to do with the rest, but I don't think I'm living the type of lifestyle where I absolutely NEED to do that. I'm comfortable with my debt load and am on track to have my house paid off in the next few years, and my retirement is on track as well as my personal savings. I'd just keep it and play it.

[T.D.Nydn]

I wonder what else was at this flea market?

[Denny Gies]

If I could eat and have a place to sleep I'd keep the Loar. But then, I have been off my medication for awhile now.

[lflngpicker]

Nick, the question is provocative and I must say, I would love to entertain such an opportunity to "steal" a great instrument at such a price. I was compelled though to say I was sorry to hear of your misfortune, neighbor. You are a talented guy and I know you will be snapped up when the right position comes your way. Dan

[mandolindude04]

I couldn't in good conscience buy something worth that much for twenty bucks. However, having said that, I probably wouldn't spend over $500. for any mandolin. I have a Breedlove crossover that I got from GC online that cost me about $300. and I'm perfectly happy with that. I also wouldn't spend $35. or more for a pick. I'd rather spend my money on other things like food and rent. In one of my more foolish moments, I purchased a $2000. Acoustic guitar a few years ago. It sits in my closet most of the time. I enjoy playing my $200. Electric guitar more. I don't have to worry about if it gets scratched up or not.

[Hudmister]

I assume for the purposes of this thread that the $20 Loar mandolin is in fact a verified Loar. As a lad I purchased a Gibson Hummingbird guitar from a guy. Beautiful translucent red color with that iconic pickguard. I got a real nice deal, $175 w/HSC. It was a fake I came to find out and really not a very good one, but it had Gibson on the head stock and a Gibson label.. I would never believe that a flea market Loar in any condition was anything but a fake. Still, for $20 I would buy it if I had the chance. $20 is a good price even for a wall hanger.

[MediumMando5722]

I'd sell it and pay off my house and as much of our student loans as possible. My dad has plenty of nice instruments I can play, so I'd take the lifestyle change over a new instrument.

[Willie Poole]

Just let it happen to me and then I would let you know what I did with it, I do believe that if I was unemployed I would sell it and in vest in a Gil and live off of the rest of the money until a good job came along...

[JeffD]

the Loar cognoscenti have determined the current real value closer to $100K; ...

Yea, take a "much" or two off of my hyperbole.

[Jeff Mando]

I do believe that if I was unemployed I would sell it and in vest in a Gil

Better not let Dave Ramsey hear you say that! Just kidding, I think all unemployed people should have a little ol' Gil around the house to bang out a few chords on and kill some time with! (while looking for a job...) :grin::));)

[JeffD]

Seeing a Loar-signed F5 go into a museum, never to be played, would be a tragedy. Not as much as it being destroyed or lost, but it would still be a loss to the musical world, in terms of it not being out there playing music..

I get it, but there is a continuum. Alison Stephens acquired a 1764 Vincentius Vinaccia. As I remember the story she had it copied as exactly as possible by a master luthier, and then the mandolin was put in a museum, and she played the amazing copy. I am not sure that is a bad decision.

And even if played, as they were designed to be, perhaps they don't need to be played by me. Chris Thile playing a signed Loar F5 likely pleases the mandolin more than would my playing it. :)

[Clement Barrera-Ng]

Also chiming in to say that I would absolutely sell it in a heart beat, use the proceeds and invest in something, and when the amount doubles, I may begin to start considering getting a ... Gil :) I would also give the seller some added compensation once I was able to sell it.

Wishing you well Nick and hope all is well with you. If you're down my way let's get together for some food and tunes (though you'll probably have to do most of the playing)

[Spruce]

I would also give the seller some added compensation once I was able to sell it.


Unless, when you bought the Loar, you didn't have a clue what it was... ;)

[FLATROCK HILL]

...I would never believe that a flea market Loar in any condition was anything but a fake...

Yeah but I think I could cope with the disappointing news when my $20 Gibson Loar turns out to be just a Wiens copy.

[NursingDaBlues]

What if it was a white-top Gibson A (not an A3) with two broken tuners picked up at a garage sale for $25? And the seller just wanted to get rid of it, wouldn't accept anything more, and was going to give it to Goodwill if he couldn't sell it?

[Jeff Mando]

Unless, when you bought the Loar, you didn't have a clue what it was... ;)

From experience, I can tell you most attempts at "added compensation" after the sale will BACKFIRE and most likely confuse and often will embitter them toward you. Most people do not have any experience with buying and selling on that level. Imagine handing someone a check for $50K and reminding them you bought a $20 mandolin from them last summer. The first question they will ask is, "what did you get for it?" If you are honest and say, "$100K and I'm splitting it will you!" They WILL NOT be grateful and will want the entire $100K. They will ask for your name and address and write down your license plate number as you are leaving. They will get a lawyer and say you "stole" $100K from them. The reason is that they are suspicious about "what else" they may have given away over the years and you may become the scapegoat. Believe me.

A friend of mine was leaving town and she had some broken guitar pedals and an old amp that she was throwing out and asked me if I wanted the stuff. I said sure, and took it home. Most of it just needed some minor soldering and adjustment, so I fixed the pedals and the amp and sold the stuff on eBay. I got about $300 for the stuff. About a year later she was in town visiting and I heard she was a single mom now, so I figured she could use the money and gave her the $300. She had the strangest reaction, almost as if I had stolen from her. I'm not sure what she was thinking, but she certainly was not grateful to receive $300 in cash! So anyway, in my humble experience, attempts to set the world "right" often fail, regardless of the sterling intentions. Just a word to the wise, not that any of us are going to find a Loar for $20......

[Spruce]

Just a word to the wise, not that any of us are going to find a Loar for $20......

Can you imagine finding out that the ukulele you sold a few weeks ago for 20 bucks is worth 185K?
Now, that would suck.

[Austin Bob]

To me, Loars are something I've always admired and held with great respect, but I've never lusted after one, or even dreamed of owning one if I hit the lotto. So yeah, I'd guess I'd sell it as long as I could generate a chunk of money that made a real difference in my financial standings.

[Mark Wilson]

Since I know I would never buy one - if it fell in my lap I'd keep it til the thrill wore off completely. Might be a lifetime might be 3 weeks but my first instinct would be to play it til my hands gives out . A bit of money never made much difference in my life. Waking up to play a LL every morning just might be the stuff of dreams

[J Mangio]

Out the door it would go.

[Jim Garber]

Ah, we can all dream, can't we? OTOH you probably would have a better chance winning a state lottery than finding a Loar signed mandolin and buying it for $20.

BTW I know Spruce is respecting this new Loar owner but it would be nice to hear about the story and some, perhaps more general, details.

However, if that happened to me, and even if it was in poor condition, I would consider having it properly restored and it would be worth it to me to put a few thousand dollars into it to make it playable. I often feel that obligation for anything that has value as an instrument.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Jim - Winning a boat load of cash on the lottery,is a different situation as you know. In that case money is no problem. We could buy a Loar (or 2 ?) & not feel the pinch - but would we ?. Personally,unless you're really lusting after a Loar,i think that most of us would explore the mandolins of other makers - Gil. / Dude. / Heiden / Ellis etc. & buy our choice of those. Not everybody sees a Loar as the ultimate goal - but i'd be open to persuasion if i found one that REALLY rang my bell !. I'd also have my Ellis F5 'custom' as well,:grin:
Ivan;)

[Jim Garber]

Ivan, I was referring to the probability of that happening not really comparing the two situations.

[Tom Sanderson]

Having been lucky enough to play several and compare them to my Nugget F5, I would sell it , pay my house off, quit my job, and spend more time playing The Nugget.

[Jeff Mando]

Back to the original question, would you keep it?

Two thoughts come to mind. IF somebody gave me a piano, and I accepted, they really didn't GIVE me much. Basically they GAVE me about $400 in expenses of having it moved and tuned. Something to think about.

In the same way if someone GAVE me a 40 room mansion sitting on 10 acres, I couldn't afford to keep it. The taxes would be $100K a year, depending on your location, and it would require hiring housekeepers, gardeners, butlers, etc, probably costing another $100K a year minimum.....heck the electric bill would probably be $2K a month.....

Now with the Loar, you would only have insurance and maintenance to consider which wouldn't be too bad until something requires a major repair. You couldn't just have the high school kid at Guitar Center working on it, in other words -- you would have to overnight it to one of the known "Loar" guys to do the repair right, which would require keeping a contingency fund. At least, this is my way of thinking. On the brighter side, having the Loar is entrance to one of the most exclusive "clubs" in music. Quite a calling card, IMHO. Not to mention getting to play something that sounds really great!!! :mandosmiley:

[9lbShellhamer]

If in some bizarre twist I happened upon a Loar, I'm in the sell camp too. Assuming I got $175k from it's sale, I'd buy about $40k worth of mandolins on the used market. Probably a Heiden, and maybe an Altman, and Ellis A5 and a few others. I'd definitely keep my current Gibson and Collings. I'd invest the rest and pay off a few bills. I'm lucky to have the 2 mandolins I have currently, and with the team of the Collings and Gibson at home, I've been cured of MAS ever since acquiring the Gibson. They're a great duo and pretty different. I just want to keep working hard at pickin and get BETTER. At this point, no mandolin is holding me back. I just need a few more years in the saddle to pick my fingers to the bone to get to where i want to be musically. I'm seeing constant progress which is really rewarding but I still need more time, not more mandolins.

[Charlie Bernstein]

I'm willing to assume it's true. Shinola happens. Fairy tales can come true, it could happen to you, no matter how moldy and dessicated your feeble old ticker is. Would I keep it or sell it? What do I care? I don't have it!

It sounds like we might be getting ourselves in a twist over nothing. I mean, it makes sense to lose sleep over things that actually happen. We do some of our best thinking in the middle of the night. But losing hair over what I'd do IF I won the mando lottery just sounds like a cruel squander of primo Z time.

[Delaware]

Maybe it was a "The Loar"?

[FLATROCK HILL]

It sounds like we might be getting ourselves in a twist over nothing. I mean, it makes sense to lose sleep over things that actually happen. We do some of our best thinking in the middle of the night. But losing hair over what I'd do IF I won the mando lottery just sounds like a cruel squander of primo Z time.

Speaking strictly for myself, I haven't lost any sleep over this. It's just fun sometimes to say "what if?". You know...you use your imagination. It's actually kind of relaxing I think. A form of entertainment.