Playing Melody in Irish Sessions

[Mike Scott]

I got the Irish bug about a year ago and went into the woodshed to learn some tunes. I now have several I can play up to tempo on, but when I try to play with other instruments after a couple of notes, I sort of just freeze up. Doesn't matter if it is a slow or fast tune. At bluegrass jams this isn't an issue as you only play melody solo or with other mandolins. I have tried playing along with CDs and YouTube with the same brain freeze. Anyone else have (or had) this issue? Anyone been able to solve? If so, how? :crying:

[derbex]

Maybe try playing at a slower tempo first, there are some backing tracks that start off slow and work up, or you could use a program to slow the music down. It might get you over the hump.

[Jill McAuley]

Being able to play up to speed on your own and playing up to speed in a session are two different things I find. Once you add the new variable of other players (and the distraction of other players!) I find that the pendulum swings back a wee bit and I need to play at a slower speed than I would when playing at home (meaning seek out a slower session!). The more regularly you play in session/ensemble settings then that gap begins to close and the speed comes back. Just my experience. Here's a resource I've been enjoying as it allows you to slow down tunes to play along with and then you can incrementally increase the speed: http://wellington.session.nz/current_tunes/

[Bertram Henze]

Your awareness of the "other melodies" being played is distracting you, apparently. Accept the beat from them for timing and ignore the rest. Listen to your own playing, and let the others be your luxury metronome.

[Beanzy]

I learn the chunks not the tunes.
So my mandolinning work looks at the stock phrases and melody pieces. The same runs and turns come up over and over. The whole tune thing is a bit like an exercise in re-setting those chunks in as many ways as possible. So I just have those on the shelf waiting to drop in as I go.
But my learning of the melodies is done mostly by iPod. Drilling them into my head.
I find that once I know the tunes to whistle or 'diddly dum' along to, then they just happen on the mandolin.
If I set out to learn a whole tune I take ages to remember it. It's also easier for me to remember if I learn them in sets. They just stick better.

[mandroid]

In the US, the ITM sessions are, perhaps in Bend Too, more strictly, 'authentic' ,

than I found Pub Crawling on my Bicycle tour along the Irish west coast, years ago..

Small village pub jams were pretty laid back .. Publican supplied the Player's pints, too.



...

[foldedpath]

As an armchair diagnosis, it sounds to me like you don't actually have the tunes completely under your fingers yet.

To join with others in unison playing, you have to know each tune so well that you're on "autopilot" and not thinking about making mistakes. Your own playing can then recede into the background of your consciousness. More of your ear/brainpower can be dedicated to listening to the group's rhythm pulse and tempo, so you can lock into the group sound.

If in fact, you do have the tunes completely under your fingers and not thinking about mistakes when you play, and this is still happening, then it may just be a question of learning to train your ear to hear and participate in a unison melody group. And not specifically Irish... the same thing would apply to an OldTime jam. That's not a skill we're born with; it has to be developed. If you haven't ever played in any other unison melody group, like maybe a high school orchestra or marching band, it may just take some time to get comfortable with that process.

Keep going to sessions. Join in where you can, and sit out where you can't. You'll get there.

[catmandu2]

Right, when you get into playing with others, time is everything. Everyone becomes a 'drummer' - in that everyone is playing rhythmically - at that point, and if you haven't the tunes yet to be able to play what you know with good time, it gets a little hairy.

[liestman]

I agree, everyone is acting as a drummer and you may well being playing each tune very "straight" whereas your local session may impart more "swing" to the timing. I would suggest practicing your tunes straight and then practicing them with some swing. Or listen to the local session without playing and figure out if they tend to swing a certain tune, or emphasize the 1 and 3 or the 2 and 4 beats - and this probably depends on the specific tune. Anyway, try practicing the same tune all these different ways and you should be better prepared for what they throw at you.

[sblock]

You probably need to practice more. Hard to hear, but true. Try playing with a backing track, like Garage Band, or alongside a recording. Get used to hearing more than just yourself playing. It will come.

[Mike Scott]

Thank you all very much for your comments, suggestions and advice. I think I need to clarify my OP. I am old. I started this mandolin journey almost 9 years ago. It has been a love hate relationship from the get go. I have never enjoyed playing the mandolin in bluegrass jams because most of the time you're just chopping along. I have always liked playing notes better. That may have been the impetus to try ITM plus I enjoy listening to it. At one point I bought a mid priced Anglo concertina took some lessons and enjoyed playing it a lot. One day it occurred to me that I would never be able to play it up to tempo before I return to dust.....I have only gone to slow sessions with the mandolin. I noted at the last one the aforementioned problem. As an example, I have been playing John Ryan's Polka (a really easy tune) two or three times a day for about 5 years. Even at the slow session I'm good for about 3 notes before brain freeze sets in. The session leader says play it alone for us. I do so and am told I am OK. Then as a group we start in and 3 notes in, I'm done. Last night I thought I would try it with a YouTube track-same thing. Then I tried Ashoken Farewell with a guitar version. I figured it was slow and I've been playing it 8+ years. About a third of the way through I'm done. Very frustrating.

So, I guess I am a no talent hack. I just purchased a very superb mandolin, but to be honest, I am thinking of blowing it out along with my A4, just keeping the beater for "just in case". Just play guitar for my own pleasure and maybe for accompanyment at ITM sessions and call it good. That's about where I'm at. I was curious if my issue is a common one or not. Just didn't want to bare my sole in the original post......

[sblock]

Well, I am more optimistic than you about this, and I firmly believe that you can get there with practice. If you are physically capable of playing the tune up to normal tempo in a given setting -- in this case, playing at home alone -- then you are fully capable of LEARNING to play the very same tune, at the very same tempo, with other musicians! What you describe as "brain freeze" is in your head, not in your arms and hands. This is not about coordination and muscle speed. We already know from what you've written that you have the physical capability, even at your age (hey, I didn't start until my 50's). This is about psychology, and not getting thrown off by the sounds of the other musicians, or the pressure of performance in the setting, and so on. You can learn to cope with that. Realize that it's in your head, and you will be on the path to dealing with it. Practice relentlessly, and play with recordings, backing tracks, and other people as often as you can. Hang in there, because YOU WILL GET THERE!! :mandosmiley:

[Mike Scott]

I guess you are most likely correct except I am a no talent hack. :grin: I will put the mandos away for a couple of days and then redouble my efforts trying out the slow tune link provided by Jill. Tonight is the regular session- I'm taking a guitar and will hopefully be able to keep up.......

[RickPick]

I have to agree with sblock. You just need to keep at it. I started fiddle and mandolin in my mid-sixties, and every day, I kick myself for not starting at 5 years old. But I didn't, and I'm stuck with what I've got, even though it is far short of what I'd like it to be. I experience many of the same problems you outline when playing in sessions, although in my case, it is usually more clear that I'm just way too slow for the group. I keep hoping to run into a slower group, but none has landed in my lap. So I keep playing a lot by myself (which probably reinforces my slow playing, as my preferred pace of EVERYTHING -- driving, walking, talking, chewing gum.... -- is slow), but I force myself to attend bluegrass and ITM sessions only because I believe that is the only way I will ever have a chance of being able to feel joyful when I play with others. Mostly, I just feel like an impostor who should just be listening, not playing along. But the groups are generous, and no one has ever asked me to stay home and wash my hair on the night's they meet. The great thing about musicians is that at some time, they've all been where you are.

[Paul Busman]

Keep at it, get to as many sessions as you can. If necessary, quietly play chords, adding in bits of the melody as they come to you. I do that frequently when they play a tune I don't know.
It's lousy posture, but try bending over with your ear close to your mandolin. It'll help you focus on YOUR sound and drown out the background sound a bit.
I agree that playing along with videos may help too. Don't quit-- the rewards are well worth the effort.

[Randi Gormley]

I don't know how many people attend the session you're at, but if it's anything like the sessions I've been at (minus the slow/beginner session we run every Monday), there's so much noise going on that an individual mistake isn't actually heard. Your messing up or freezing up may not even be noticed except by you. Just a thought. Another thought is, if you start to get lost, just vamp a bit on the A string (or play a G); you'd be surprised how often that works. I've certainly been playing along and gotten distracted and lost the melody for a few beats -- nobody really notices. I just pick it up the next time around. Another thing you can try is closing your eyes. At least for me, it helps me to separate out the beat from the background distraction (or the third guitar fingerpicking the wrong chord). Just some thoughts.

[Mandoplumb]

No one has asked but do you use a metronome when you practice, if so do you play through even if you flub a note or play a wrong note or do you wait for the beat and then start back. A jam doesn't wait for you to regroup so you shouldn't even in practice. Also just for the record there are many things you can do in a bluegrass jam or even a band than pop chords like Mr Monroe--- gotta go here comes the bluegrass police.

[Jim Garber]

I agree with Randi and sblock and others — it sounds like you are perfectly capable of playing the tunes that you know but don't want to play if you make mistakes. The reality is that even the best players will make mistakes and no one else beside the player will notice. Also, I would not just practice at home until you are perfect on a tune— I would consider the jam to be your practice in playing at the jam. The more you play with others the better you will get in blending in. Keep at it. And stop that talk about being a hack. That is complete BS. Stick to it and it will get easier and better. I guarantee!

[Mike Scott]

I probably shouldn't, but I will weigh in one more time. My issue is not making (a) mistake or many mistakes. Well that's always an issue, but when that happens I continue plugging along. The issue is (even before I get to the mistake phase) I start off OK and then just plain freeze up and forget where I am, where I am going. No one cares probably because no one can even hear me amongst all the other instruments. All this is at slow, beginner sessions. I did go to a full speed session last night, but took a guitar-no issue there.

Again, my question is- is this freezing up common?

Once again, thanks for all comments suggestions and advise!

[Mandoplumb]

Don't know how common freezing up is, it happens. I do know that it's self fulling, if you think you will freeze up chances are pretty good yup will. Keep plugging, keep trying, keep telling yourself you can and you will.

[Jim Garber]

If you learn from tab or notation then take your written notes with you for the tunes you know. Even if you preparing by ear, maybe jot down some notes about what frets/fingers you start parts of tunes.

[BJ O'Day]

Again, my question is- is this freezing up common?
Happens to me quite often. I'm sure it's nervousness. Sometimes it is tunes I can play well at near session speed. But I get a little worried about flubbing up and just stop, it's like my right hand freezes.

I have found it better when there is a strong lead player. I try to tune into just the lead and ignore the others. This helps quite a bit for me.
BJ

[RickPick]

Freezing up doesn't happen to me, but many other "psychological" things do when I play with a group (or for an audience). But there's only one ultimate solution, and that's for you to break through this barrier. That's why there are courses on public speaking, so folks can "get over" what freaks them out about talking to an audience. Some performers probably never totally get over some version of stage fright, but the only thing that will get them past its most debilitating form is to perform in front of an audience. That's why kids' piano and violin lessons usually have a recital component. It is a common psychological barrier students need to learn to break through. Your hurdle is more specialized, but you'll get over it. Just like everyone (who wants to) finally figures out how to ride a bike.

[lonestar_shawn]

I've seen people who are decent players but they have some timing issues where they add extra beats and things like that. It could be a situation where you can play the melody along with a metronome and do ok, but maybe there is an extra beat you are adding or something off with the timing. Then when you try to play it with others (live or recording) you notice you are off and freeze up. If you don't already do it, record yourself playing along with the backing track and make sure you've got the tune down correctly.

The other thing that happened to me when I started was that I learned a set arrangement, and I could only play that arrangement from the beginning. If I missed a beat I had to wait for the chord changes to come back around again so I could start over. Eventually I had to learn how to miss a note or two and then pick back up again. Something similar may be happening to you.

[Bertram Henze]

I tend to go with the "timing" chorus, by now. Many starting out alone and playing tunes in their own private timezone will fall apart in the suddely rigid timing of other players.
Get a metronome and get used to playing your music along with that. You'll feel the wonders of temporal delusion at first, at a much lower price than a DeLorean.

[noah finn]

It sounds like you are not freezing but instead you' re getting "lost" when you are playing with others.

You say you can play tunes to decent speed on your own but when you play with others things fall apart.

It seems to me that you do have the tunes under your fingers but you are used to practising them in such an exact way that when you play with others you are thrown off.

It's about getting used to playing melody with others and not rehearsing the tunes. I've played in many, many sessions here in Ireland and while everyone adheres to playing the tune together in the same spirit everyone also plays subtle variations. Hearing these variations unexpectedly as you are playing can be off putting.

Stick at it and work through it. As Betram said earlier use the other players as your metronome but concentrate on your own melody playing.

When I started I took classes from a comhaltas group. There was a recital one evening. when I turned up, I was early so I took a seat. when the other players came in, to my surprise, they were girls and boys aged between 6 and 10. I had no way out that stage. I started a tune and once the kids joined in I crashed and burned. At the end the kids parents clapped and told me well done like I was six myself (I was in my early 30's)....If that embarrassing experience didn't stop me nothing will :))

Seriously keep at it. It's worth it.

[Br1ck]

I once met a gentleman who was very knowledgeable on pedal steel, an instrument that pretty well defeated my ability to play it.bthis guy knew many chord forms, music theory and had a high level of technical ability. He just couldn't translate all that to making music. It was puzzling he couldn't follow a I IV V progression. It was confounding. But I refuse to believe with instruction he couldn't turn it around. I'd find a teacher with your specific goal in mind.

Myself, I've been more comfortable in a band setting or alone. Never liked jam situations. I like working things out to be tight an precise. Of course there are those who can do that on the fly. I hate them.LOL

[Jon Hall]

I'm also old-er (69 this summer). I refuse to set limitations on my potential to improve unless there are physical limitations. Slowing down the tunes I'm learning is always a good plan for me. Practicing with a metronome (tunes, tremolo, scales, etc) is also part of my daily practice. Something that is very helpful for me is that in addition to practicing by myself and participating in jams, I get together with small groups of friends to practice. Sometimes it might be one other person or three or four but we are always willing to slow things down for each other and work on tricky parts of the tunes. These group practices are very beneficial and build great friendships. If you enjoy the mandolin don't give up on it. However old you are, you're not too old to pursue your musical aspirations.

[Bill Cameron]

I dont agree with anyone. ha ha. I bet you can play with a metronome just fine if you try. I would suggest that you need to work with a friend, aka a "teacher". There are all kinds of things going on in a session, and you have clearly described the point where you get hung up--where you try to play along with multiple people who are all doing their own thing their own way. So back up and try playing a tune in unison with -one- person. Just figure out who you know who is both talented and patient, buy some beer, and invite them over. Try going through some of your standard session tunes and see what happens. If you can learn to get comfortable playing a few tunes at a moderate tempo with that one person, then go to your session, sit next to the same player--hopefully others there will know what you are shooting for and have mercy on the tempos-- and see what happens. If it still doesnt come, try some more one-on-ones and if its starting to happen, maybe have two friends over the next time. Just one rule: you're not playing the guitar this time...OK two rules...have fun.

[Mike Scott]

Once again, thank you all very much. I really appreciate it. I believe, using a lot of your suggestions and also using some logic I have found my problem which has led to a not so quick solution. I downloaded the link provided by Jill (thanks very much for that), pulled out the tab to John Ryan's and discovered I was playing not at tempo but at 75% of tempo. So, losing it at full tempo. Ditto for a few other tunes I tried. Having the tab available helped the first few times through then wasn't needed. I played it maybe ten times. Now to work my way up to full tempo slowly then on to the next one and so on. Not all our session tunes are on that link so I'll revert to the hated metronome for that to gradually get up to tempo. So l guess it's back to the woodshed for Mikey! In the meantime I started playing around wth DADGAD on the guitar and will just do accompanyment till I am ready to do at least a few tunes at tempo. Slow session tonight for working on the DADGAD.......

I never would have figured it out without all of your help. Thanks again.

[Mark Wilson]

The deal where all are playing melody at same time throws me off. Occasionally someone will say "all together" on a bluegrass tune and tbh it is not as easy for me to play along with several variations going at jam speed. If it's a tune I just learned it makes me wish I had a bare bones version for the occasion.

[Bertram Henze]

Embrace the metronome. It is the one player who will never accuse you of derailing him with your playing, nor will he tell you to go home and practise. A more steadfast friend you'll never meet.

[catmandu2]

Embrace the metronome.

+1

[dhergert]

Sounds like the freeze-up is a symptom of stage fright. Don't ask me how I know. :cool:

The solution that works for me for stage fright is knowing the fingerboard and picking hand work well enough that I can play with my eyes closed. Then I literally do that -- close my eyes, listen carefully to what's going on around me, and picture in my mind what my left hand is doing.

There are other real benefits to being able to play without looking, so it's worth while even if it doesn't work for your current situation.

That takes care of stage fright for me most of the time. But if the venue or environment is too intimidating, sometimes it will still break through.

If you're getting vibes of intimidation at a jam -- which does happen sometimes -- you might just want to find a more casual, comfortable jam. Jams are supposed to be fun. Life is too short.

:mandosmiley:

[Bren]

Can you find just one other person to play with, practise tunes together, and then go out to the session together?

That was an easy way in for me. What's more, the two of you can then start a set at your own preferred pace.

[Mark Wilson]

I have a book I refer back to a lot that has a chapter on how to measure your 'true' level of mastery over a song.
For a 4th year player - it was an ego buster, but good to know. Not knowing the tune deeply enough is 95% the cause for my clams at jams. But tbh there's good in that for me. Gives me a little push to play again

[Paul Busman]

Come to think of it, I sometimes experience just the opposite. When it's my turn to start a tune at a session I always pick something I know really well, but when I start it (either mandolin or penny whistle) I often flub it a bit at the beginning. Once the other musicians pick up the tune, I'm fine. Since we moved to a new area not long ago I've been to several new sessions where I've picked a tune they don't generally play. I ask about the tune and if they don't know it they invariably ask me to play it so they can hear it, which leaves me right out in the open. Once I get the tune going, I do a lot better, even playing solo.

[Randi Gormley]

So this probably has nothing to do with the OP, but it is something I've noticed in people new to our session. We've had two people come to our beginner/slow session within the past three or four months who have learned a smattering of tunes, mostly from a teacher or on their own, but have not had much experience playing with a bunch of other people on diverse instruments. One is a box player and the other, who came last night, was a fiddler. We're hardly an intimidating bunch and we're not only extremely welcoming to newbies but we go out of our way to make sure they get to play their tunes at the speeds they're comfortable at.
That doesn't stop them from completely freaking out when we ask them to start something, of course, but we do try to be friendly and encouraging.

I've noticed two things. The first is that the ability to listen to the tune while playing it seems to be missing from their skillset. It's not so much the speed-up-on-the-easy-parts/slow-down-on-the-difficult-ones that everybody who plays by themselves is guilty of (since few people like playing with a metronome). It's sort of being deafened by their own instrument to what's going on even beside them. Nerves play a part of it, of course, but it does seem to be more than that. It's not something most beginners notice about their playing since they're concentrating so much on playing the notes correctly, but it definitely can mess up playing with a group.

The second thing is slightly different: not being able to hear the other players at all, especially if there's not some wildly dominant player who overplays everybody anyway. The beginner is sawing away or whatever oblivious to the pacing of people around the circle; they often end up either on a different part of the tune or half a beat ahead or behind. Again, this is a learned skill that takes time to recognize is needed. It's the part of group playing that you really can't do by yourself or playing with a backing tape or along with a CD or something. Playing live with other people means accommodating rhythmic pulses, changes in tempo and the occasional screw up where somebody forgets to repeat a part or moves to another tune without alerting the other players.

[Beanzy]

Randi that sounds a bit like it's that tunnel vision (hearing) that comes with anxiety. Everything zooms in on the immediate task and everything else gets excluded.

I definitely like Brens suggestion of finding one other to play with.
I've been at that for three years and we head off to sessions now and kick off a few sets no problem.
I'm lucky my friend is a very talented trad and folk player with about 60 years playing in public under his belt.
What I've found is that even if he's not there I can kick them off as if he is; Kind of like a trad "Harvey"
155090

[Mike Scott]

Well, OK. Last night was our slow/tune learning session. 13 attendees. I took a guitar. I always thought (and still do) that melody instruments should be dominant and diverse in number, but the count was 7 guitarists, 5 fiddlers and 1 tin whistler. Hmmm! I also learned my nickname there is "Mandolin Mike" so I guess I'm stuck-lol. We also talked a bit about my issue and my plan to correct it. Appears all will be good going forward plus it looks as though I am the lone mando player vs a ton of guitar slingers. I would have thought there would be more mandolin players given their number at the local bluegrass jam, but I guess not. Also odd that in the three sessions I've attended, no tenor banjos. Although at the regular session there was a pipe player and a couple of bodhrans.

[catmandu2]

...the count was 7 guitarists...

Yikes. That's quite another layer to this problem. Seven guitarists - each playing their own version of 'rhythm' - is like the antithesis of a metronome! This is not an easy situation, and not the best way for a beginner to acquire skills (which is why I recommend working with a metronome, rather than collective 'jams,' to develop rhythmic acumen) - but I'm particularly sensitive to good rhythm, so my opinion here may not be true for all.

My usual advice in this context: find the best rhythm player/playing and glom onto that. The muddle and cacophony of 7 'accompanists' is a lot to overcome.



...and a couple of bodhrans.

Even worse..
.

[mandomurph]

Being able to play up to speed on your own and playing up to speed in a session are two different things I find. Once you add the new variable of other players (and the distraction of other players!) I find that the pendulum swings back a wee bit and I need to play at a slower speed than I would when playing at home (meaning seek out a slower session!). The more regularly you play in session/ensemble settings then that gap begins to close and the speed comes back. Just my experience. Here's a resource I've been enjoying as it allows you to slow down tunes to play along with and then you can incrementally increase the speed: http://wellington.session.nz/current_tunes/

This is a great learning tool. Anything like this for Old Time and or bluegrass?

[foldedpath]

Egad! Seven guitar players? That's either the dreaded "acoustic jam" or a poorly run Irish trad session in my opinion.

This can happen when there isn't a designated leader of a session, usually the local Alpha fiddler, who can keep things on track. You end up with a "tragedy of the commons" where too many guitars and bodhrans are thrashing away, and killing any sense of cohesive melody and rhythm pulse.

Here's the thing, and it's just my opinion but I think it's right: :)

The rhythm pulse in a good Irish session is established by the melody players, not the backers on guitar and bodhran. Backers should be listening and following along with the pulse of the melody players, not establishing a bedrock rhythm on their own, like you do in American genres like Bluegrass. Most guitar players don't get that. Add more guitar players and it just gets worse.

The other side of the coin is that the melody is fixed in Irish trad while the harmony is improvised. It's the opposite of Bluegrass, and most guitar players don't get that either. So when you have two or more guitar players trying to improvise chords at the same time, it's a train wreck.

I'm fortunate in that the several Irish and mixed Scottish/Irish sessions in my area have an informal (but gently enforced) rule that there should be only one guitar player at a time, and one bodhran player at a time. When more than one show up, they're encouraged to trade off instead of play simultaneously. Otherwise you get the chaos of clashing chords and clashing rhythm feel from different backers.

If this is the only beginner-friendly session in your area, you may be stuck with it. But if there are others, I'd suggest scoping them out. Find the ones that are beginner-friendly, but know how to keep a lid on the guitar army.

[mandomurph]

I struggle with tunes when I can hear my own instrument in a group dominated by fiddles and banjos. I learn tunes mostly by ear but I have to hear myself above others or I'm lost.

[Mike Scott]

This is it for ITM in Bend. And this was an unusual mix. It is billed as the tune learning session. We have 2 of these monthly and one "regular " session monthly. And yes there is an alpha fiddler. She is the leader of the whole shebang. She gives the "instructions " primarily to the fiddlers and other melody players. 7 guitarists are way more than usual, but there is always at least 3. As I was one of those, I played really quietly. Won't be bringing it again. Next time I'll bring a dobro (not really). Let's just say it was not an optimal situation for anyone.....

Mando Murph-that's been a big part of my issue to. That's why the metronome may be part of the solution to that.

[Billy Packard]

Mike, this is all such good counsel!

Years ago l found this about myself--Once I learn a complex choro or polka and then take it to the next level, i.e. playing it with my musical partners, it is almost like starting over. Hearing the tune 'in context' changes everything and presents a whole new paradigm.

I've not seen anyone here at the cafe mention "Band In A Box" but I have been using this program for years with great success. Once I can play the tune along with BIAB I can play it anywhere. And I don't suffer my bandmates the stumbling and bumbling of me learning the tune in ensemble. From the time of introducing a new tune to performing it takes way less time AND I don't feel bad about looking and sounding bad!!LOL

I think of BIAB as a glorified metronome that also plays chords!

Billy

billypackardmandolin.com

[catmandu2]

Yep, the radio/cd works too; most everything recorded has been QCd for meter.

(I'm with f-path - I think you're better off conspiring with one of the [better] guitar players and working on the music. Wading into a sea of rhythm players is not for the feint of heart, and may not be the best route to developing - sounds more like an acoustic 'jam' than an Irish session)

[BJ O'Day]

So tonight it happened again where I froze up. A tune I know well but was being played a bit faster than I'm used to. I had to really focus on releasing the tension in my hands, stop worrying about flubs and relax with the tune. I was able to start really playing along about halfway through the third time around. Oh well,...next time.
BJ

[JeffD]

I have rarely been to a jam, OT or ITM that had fewer than three guitars. Often more.

[JeffD]

I went to these huge ITM sessions in Edinburgh Scotland, where there would be maybe 20 musicians, and something like half of them would be playing bodhran. The drums the drums the drums the drums.

[foldedpath]

I have rarely been to a jam, OT or ITM that had fewer than three guitars. Often more.

Oldtime, sure. If it's Irish or Scottish, you're going to the wrong session. :)

And yeah, I know we don't get to pick and choose depending on where we live. I'm lucky... every session I go to in this area has a one-guitar-at-a-time rule because it just doesn't work otherwise.

Late at night, after the backers have left and it's just the melody players? That's where the magic happens.

[Jim Garber]

I have rarely been to a jam, OT or ITM that had fewer than three guitars. Often more.

Come to our OT jam here in Yorktown Heights, NY. Actually, more accurately we have a few string guitar players but sometimes they don't show up. I am one of them and I usually lead on fiddle. Another one prefers to play fiddle. There are a few others who play very softly or sit way back so we can't depend on them either. Luckily one of our regulars plays moderately strong bass and she has been getting better all the time. She holds up the bottom end. When she is there often I pound away to keep the timing steady. Very important esp the larger the jam gets.

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Late at night, after the backers have left and it's just the melody players? That's where the magic happens.

Yes!! I know what you mean esp with ITM.

[Bad Monkey]

I went to these huge ITM sessions in Edinburgh Scotland, where there would be maybe 20 musicians, and something like half of them would be playing bodhran. The drums the drums the drums the drums.

Bodhran player; that's we call the guys who like cheap beer and hanging around musicians.

as bad as a flock of guitar players or bodhran players are fistfulls of fiddlers who all are using screwball bowings and ornaments all over the place. what an aural mess. Sometimes it really seems like some players are competing with each other and have stopped listening. For me that's like my mom yelling out the door back in '70 "boy, the streetlights are on!" Time to scram.

I'm pretty sure I don't have any new advice for the OP that hasn't been mentioned several times: metronome, playing with CDs, youtube videos, with/without written music. playing with one or two other musicians, etc.

[Bertram Henze]

I went to these huge ITM sessions in Edinburgh Scotland, where there would be maybe 20 musicians, and something like half of them would be playing bodhran. The drums the drums the drums the drums.

Those are not musicians. They're just tourists who've been watching too many pipes&drums marching bands.

[Paul Busman]

BTW-- are you sure that it's playing with other melody instruments that's throwing you off, or simply playing mandolin melody in public? That's a whole other issue.

[Randi Gormley]

You mean, mandolins play something beside melody?

for the OP, the fact that you caught up in enough time to play part of the third way through is a win. You've just proven to yourself it can be done!

[Dave Sheets]

So tonight it happened again where I froze up. A tune I know well but was being played a bit faster than I'm used to. I had to really focus on releasing the tension in my hands, stop worrying about flubs and relax with the tune. I was able to start really playing along about halfway through the third time around. Oh well,...next time.
BJ

I think that's actually really good news. Matters will start to improve now, maybe not right away, but you have probably turned a corner here.

If you haven't already seen thesession.org, have a look at it. They have MIDI files of many ITM tunes you can download and practice with. Adjustable tempos!

[fatt-dad]

to the OP: Ever walk around in your yard playing mandolin tunes up to speed? It's the enhanced version of walking and chewing gum!

No joke, it's a fun challenge, 'cause you have all sorts of other things going on and playing just has to remain present. It really calibrates your mind to adapt to distractions.

f-d

[Mike Scott]

I am the OP. I sort of thought we were done after post number 30. Then Mr. O'Day posted number 48. Don't mean to be obtuse, but now it seems we are somehow both OPs in people's minds in this thread. As for me I am forging ahead with the metronome (painful at best,but very worthwhile) and the link provided by Jill way back on page 1. Nice to know (although too bad for the others) that I am not alone in this problem............

[Bertram Henze]

The OP is not in control of the thread. Starting a thread is like raising a gremlin and then feeding it after dark.

[Beanzy]

But sometimes staying on topic can be a bit......
155551

[Mike Scott]

The OP is not in control of the thread. Starting a thread is like raising a gremlin and then feeding it after dark.

True enough. No intent on starting a flaming war, so I will go "quietly into the night".

[JeffD]

No need to go. Its like bowling, once you let go of the ball, but its better than bowling because you can jump in and change the ball's direction.

Excellent question BTW.

[Lowlands Blue]

to the OP: Ever walk around in your yard playing mandolin tunes up to speed? It's the enhanced version of walking and chewing gum!

No joke, it's a fun challenge, 'cause you have all sorts of other things going on and playing just has to remain present. It really calibrates your mind to adapt to distractions.

f-d

I too find that once I've memorized a tune, the best way of getting a true hold on it is by playing while distracted. I'll turn on a news channel, walk around my living room or stare out of my window while playing.

Recently I went to my first Irish Session, and although I was a little intimidated and didn't know most of the material, I found it a great learning experience. Playing with others instead of alone really is a different discipline. I tend to listen to the other players and lose track of what I'm doing, and it requires a lot more attention. But hearing myself play the music the way its intended with others (despite the occasional fumble) gave me a real sense of satisfaction that I can't create just playing by myself, no matter how clean or good I play a part.