K&K vs Dean Markley pickup

[Chughes423]

I play an Eastman 315 at home. I don't play in a band, tour or anything like that. Occasionally I play at my church and I get a mic in front of me. It sounds okay until the choir, church members, band really get going. So at this point I feel its needed for me to get a pickup. I am looking for something under the $50 range. I want something that easy to take on and off.

My local music shop at the Dean Markley transducer acoustic pickup. I have also noticed online the K&K "big shot" & "hot spot" pickups. I figure that those cheap $5 piezo pickups are not really worth it. But out of the two pickups I have mentioned, which one should I purchase or does anyone have a suggestion for something around the same price.

Church stuff is not playing hard and loud so I'm trying to figure out which way to go.

I also want to mention that I don't feel safe trying to drill a hole in my mandolin for an internal pickup.

[Ben Vierra]

I have had good success with K&K pickups. I once installed a Twin Spot pickup in my mandolin internally very much for use in a church setting, and it did the job fine. I also own a Hot Spot and have used it with success. The thing you need to keep in mind, though, is that any of the passive piezo-style pickups benefit greatly from use of a preamp to boost the signal. Combined with the K&K Pure preamp, my Twin Spot was very effective, and the Hot Spot did fine too. Without the preamp, the church sound guy would complain about the weak signal and try to set me up with a microphone instead.

No personal experience with the Dean Markley pickup. Good luck finding the right product to suit your needs!

[Groundcoat]

I have K&K pickups in both my guitar and mandolin and I recommend them highly. I plug my instruments into a Fishman amplifier and do not need to use a preamp in order to get a strong signal. The amp has a XLR output that I use to send the signal to the mixing board. I installed the mandolin pickup myself and it was easy. Best of all, the K&K pickups sound great.

[Mandobart]

You won't get a decent pickup and preamp for under $50. And you do need a preamp unless you're plugging into a high impedance (HI Z) input channel on an amp or a PA. I post this frequently because this comes up so frequently, and few avail themselves of the very good search feature here on the cafe. This and relative humidity are the most frequently misunderstood topics on this board. The dreaded "piezo quack" is most often caused by a mismatch between the piezo's high impedance output and the low input impedance of the PA or amp. The preamp is more for impedance matching and improved tone than for boosting the pickup signal.

I've used K&K and JJB pickups in over 15 instruments over the past 9 years. You can get the PPS-200 (http://www.jjb-electronics.com/PPS-200.html)for $23. It is equal in every way but price to the K&K internal twin. You can get the Behringer ADI21 (https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ADI21?adpos=1t1&creative=175866238716&device=t&matchtype=b&network=g&gclid=CLD7vv3M-tECFc62wAodcKgDoA) for $ 30. So for a few bucks over your $50 budget you can get gear that I have played professionally with. If you can't install the pu yourself it will cost additional to have someone install it for you.

[pops1]

The JJB pickups, according to their site, are the same for everything, guitar, mandolin, uke etc., etc. The K&K twin for mandolin are not even close to the K&K for guitar or banjo pickups. They are physically larger, thicker and designed just for mandolin. They are the only pickup in the K&K line that are like this. The JJB pickups are recommended for everything. The K&K mandolin twin is only recommended for mandolin. I know that they may work ok, but so will any transducer work ok. I spent two years and considerable time trying just about everything from custom making a MISI to work with a Fishman bridge to magnetic pickups to a lot of transducers. The K&K mandolin twin is the best I have found so far. I don't work for K&K, but have put so many pickups in mandolins trying to find what works best. It's been a couple years now that the K&K has been in my mandolin, it really sounds best. Yes it costs a little more, but it is designed for mandolin, ONLY MANDOLIN, it is not just one pickup that works for everything. Sorry Bart I know we have been here before.

[almeriastrings]

The internals of the K&K, JJB (and several others) are really just standard piezo discs..... you can get them in different sizes. Absolotely NONE OF THEM , to the best of my knowledge, are originally manufactured "for" mandolin, guitar or even for instruments. They are manufactured in China (occasionally Japan or Korea) for general purpose use - as sensors, alarm buzzers, sounders and so-on. This is a huge market, tens of millions a year, and it is "why" they are made. They are then adapted by being "potted" (encapsulated) in various ways and wired up to suit instrument use.

153773

Raw disc:

153774

Yes - getting the impedance right is the biggest factor in making them work well. A very high 'headroom' also helps as these little things kick out quite a healthy voltage, especially on mandolin or on a banjo head.

[Mandobart]

No offense taken Pops. As you know I don't work for K&K or JJB. I've tried a couple of soundhole pickups, a K&K mandolin twin internal, and many JJB's over the past many years and in many instruments. I've installed 15 mm and 20 mm JJB's, 2 and three head models, in 2 violins, 2 violas, 2 mandolins, a mandola, 2 OM's, 2 mandocellos, 3 guitars, a banjo and an upright bass. I'm a gigging musician and these JJB pickups sound good in everything. There is no difference in quality, performance, sound, durability, or anything else that I have been able to detect between K&K and JJB. There is nothing wrong with K&K, although as an electronic tech I have some doubts on how different a piezoelectric transducer for a mandolin really is from a piezoelectric transducer for a guitar. Whenever any of us find what works for our needs I think that's great. But when a guy says he wants to spend under $50 I'm not going to recommend the product that costs $100 when I know from personal experience the $23 product works just as well.

[Shelagh Moore]

I've used both and would definitely suggest the K&K. I have them on several of my instruments and have installed them on many others with good results.

[Nevin]

Just to back up a bit. Why do feel the need for a pickup? Is it that you hare having feedback issues? In that case a pickup can be a big help. Is it getting lost in the mix? In that case you need to talk to the person doing the sound and see if your volume can be adjusted without causing feedback.

[pops1]

Bart and almeriastrings, According to Dieter at K&K the mandolin pickup is thicker than their other pickups, I am sure the technology is the same, size and thickness of the pickup itself is different and was experimented with just for mandolin. During the time they were experimenting with this so was I, and was in contact with Dieter several times. Wanted them to change the preamp for mandolin and violin family by changing the bass to work at 250 cycles instead of 100, but they didn't change the preamp.

Nevin, I like the pickup, it allows me to play easier. With a mic I have play harder and with arthritis in my wrists the pickup makes it easier. I also allows me to move around and not be tied to a mic and stand.

[Steve Ostrander]

I have experience with both. I tried the Dean Markley first. It works OK, but the only advantage to me is that it is removable and I can use it on any of my instruments. Then I had a K&K Twin installed in my Breedlove. It is far superior to the DM in tone and volume. I run it straight into my Fishman Loudbox Artist--no preamp needed as the Fishamn has a built-in preamp. Works great, and my acoustic guitar player duplicated the setup when he bought a Fishman Artist. He already had the K&K installed in his guitar, and I liked his sound, so I went with the K&K.I highly recommend it.

[Chughes423]

It looks like K&K might be my best option. I really like Behringer pedals mandobart. I use the bass version to run through the sound system at church and it really makes a big difference. I will look into the acoustic pedal. I really appreciate everyones help.

[Mike Conner]

Looks like you are converging on a solution, but just to weigh in and confirm what Mandolbart stated. I have installed at least 10 JJB Prestige pickups with included endpin jack (20 mm piezo) in archtop guitars, GOM and two guitele (6 string ukes). All with really good results. The inexpensive Behringer ADI preamp is a good match when you need higher input impedence, and equally helpful in worship situations with long cable runs and questionable grounding.

With the JJB you won't need to use multple layers of double-side tape, etc. I get really good result using gel superglue. The optimal position is in front of the bridge feet but that can be a tricky reach. You can go for the ends of the bridge feet inside the front plate and get a reasonable result.

Happy to help you if you are anywhere near upstate SC - over 40 years in music ministry and I appreciate your challenges.
//mike

[Chughes423]

Thanks Mike. I guess I need to consider lots of options. Music ministry is where I keep landing with my mandolin so maybe I need to figure that out a little better as well.

[almeriastrings]

Bart and almeriastrings, According to Dieter at K&K the mandolin pickup is thicker than their other pickups, I am sure the technology is the same, size and thickness of the pickup itself is different and was experimented with just for mandolin..

The discs are not all absolutely identical because they manufactured by a variety of factories. Some are dirt cheap... some are made to higher specs (for use in more critical sensor applications). Also, the way in which you encapsulate them has a big impact on how they sound. There are hundreds of design variants available...

https://www.bjultrasonic.com/shop/10x2-piezoceramic-discs/