View Full Version : How do Webers compare to Northfields?
guidoStow
Dec-11-2016, 9:41pm
Greetings,
I'm a newbie mando player trying to find a nice mid grade f5-style instrument. I fought enough bad guitars years go that I'd prefer to get a decent mandolin that will let me concentrate on playing music not fighting the instrument. There is a Northfield dealer in my area and I really like how their instruments sound and play. But I keep seeing ads in the classifieds for nice looking Webers in the same general ball park price and I wonder how they compare tone wise -- the local dealer doesn't stock them... I'm looking for a darker more rounded tone quality. The Collings instruments I was able to test had a brittle quality I really wasn't fond of. For those who have played both where do the Weber Yellowstone, Bitterroot or Gallatin instruments fit tone wise?
Thanks,
guido
atbuckner21
Dec-11-2016, 10:49pm
Welcome!!! :) I may be very partial, but I felt the need to respond. Over the last 2 years, I have owned 10 plus mandolins including, a Kentucky KM900, a Givens Ode, a Morris, a Bulldog, a Pava, and a Weber. While all of these mandolins were fantastic in their own way, the Northfield Model M that I just acquired is hands down my favorite. The fit and finish are incredible, the tone is unique and sounds, to my ears, what I have always wanted to hear. I hope you find something that speaks to you :)
Greetings,
I'm a newbie mando player trying to find a nice mid grade f5-style instrument. I fought enough bad guitars years go that I'd prefer to get a decent mandolin that will let me concentrate on playing music not fighting the instrument. There is a Northfield dealer in my area and I really like how their instruments sound and play. But I keep seeing ads in the classifieds for nice looking Webers in the same general ball park price and I wonder how they compare tone wise -- the local dealer doesn't stock them... I'm looking for a darker more rounded tone quality. The Collings instruments I was able to test had a brittle quality I really wasn't fond of. For those who have played both where do the Weber Yellowstone, Bitterroot or Gallatin instruments fit tone wise?
Thanks,
guido
Ivan Kelsall
Dec-12-2016, 5:04am
Unless you really ''have to have'' either a Weber or Northfield,forget 'brands' & try to play as many different makes / models as you can. Of course, play the Webers & Northfields,but don't neglect other makes either. 'Our' opinion of these makes may not be yours when you play them - it's a very individual choice,
Ivan;)
Johnny60
Dec-12-2016, 6:51am
Ok, purely to answer the Weber vs Northfield question, without bringing up other brands, here are my findings. I went through EXACTLY the same process a couple of years ago. Really liked the looks of the Webers and was also reading great things about Northfields.
A couple of years later, having played around 10 Webers and exactly 7 Northfields I feel I can give you some opinion, based purely on my own experiences. Your mileage may vary, as they say! Also, if you're in the US you may have access to a lot more of these instruments than we do here in the UK.
First things first - both manufacturers make really great, quality instruments so you can't go wrong with either. Fit, finish, workmanship, attention to detail is fantastic on both. The newer Webers I played all had radiussed fretboards with larger frets - just like the Northfields.
However, the sound was where the two brands differed quite a bit. I'll say this first - they ALL sounded great, with the notable exception of one particular Weber Yellowstone F5 which really needed to "wake up". You also have to understand that, just like with guitars, each instrument has its own individual voice. However, here's what I found about the "typical" Weber vs Northfield voice:
WEBER: loud, clear, great note articulation, good sustain and overtones, with the sound more focused in the mids and trebles.
NORTHFIELD: loud, clear, great note articulation, tons of sustain and overtones, with a "meatier" bass than the Webers, and sweeter trebles.
As I mentioned above, individual instruments do differ but, in general, I've found the Northfields to have a deeper, woodier voice. Both are great, though.
I ended up buying a Northfield F5S which I'm very, very happy with.
I'm sure that others with more hands-on experience than me will chip in soon enough.
Cheers
Johnny
yankees1
Dec-12-2016, 8:55am
Depends on whose ear is listening ! Only way to know for your ears is to play both.
guidoStow
Dec-12-2016, 9:08am
Depends on whose ear is listening ! Only way to know for your ears is to play both.
Which is a problem if there are no dealers around...
yankees1
Dec-12-2016, 9:17am
Which is a problem if there are no dealers around... You could buy on an agreed trial basis with the seller but you would be out a shipping cost if you don't like it. I have not played a Weber but I did own a Northfield and I don't think you would be disappointed with it. I had an earlier model with a lot of finish problems but the sound was very good--------to my ears ! :) Your ears may differ !!
Stephen Cagle
Dec-12-2016, 10:12am
johnny60 I have to agree that what your saying is pretty on target. I got to play Steffey's northfield several years ago when The Boxcars were in Suwanee Ga and I had a student that played a Weber Fern at the time. The Weber fern was very focused and terrific mids and certainly sounded good, the northfield was just really well rounded in all the categories. At the end of the day I would play a northfield in a heartbeat. It really had it all! Very meaty and woody mandolin. ~o)
WEBER: loud, clear, great note articulation, good sustain and overtones, with the sound more focused in the mids and trebles.
NORTHFIELD: loud, clear, great note articulation, tons of sustain and overtones, with a "meatier" bass than the Webers, and sweeter trebles.Interesting comparison. Unfortunately, there is a distinct lack of Northfields near me. If you were to add Collings and Gibson in, how would those to fit compared to the Weber and Northfield? Just trying to get a sense of Northfield and the brands I do know pretty well.
pops1
Dec-12-2016, 10:31am
Interesting, I was really wanting a Northfield M until I played one, didn't speak to me at all.
guidoStow
Dec-12-2016, 11:05am
Interesting comparison. Unfortunately, there is a distinct lack of Northfields near me. If you were to add Collings and Gibson in, how would those to fit compared to the Weber and Northfield? Just trying to get a sense of Northfield and the brands I do know pretty well.
To my ears i found the Collings instruments quite brittle very focused on the highs and mids with a dull low end. The only Gibson I have played was a used F4 that didn't have the richness I want....
Not intending to muddy your waters at all, and I'm sure Allan will give me a ham sandwich wrist slap any second now ;), but if you're after a bassier sounding mandolin, consider Silverangel as well. Ken really builds bass into those mandolins. I've got one of the Econo models from back around 2009 or 2010, and recently took a Collings MT in on a trade. The two mandolins are quite different tonally. I've been digging the Collings of late, but need to restring the SA with similar strings to fairly compare.
To my ear, the SA has excellent bass and midrange response. Trebles are very good, but it does lose a little something above the 12th fret (still very good, though). The Collings is more balanced and has a brighter, more "modern" tone. Both are different than the typical "dry" Gibson tone, IMO. I've only played one Weber mandolin, a Gallatin. It was very well made and sounded good, but not really a fair comparison given the different tone woods used in that model. My Weber Hyalite OM was well made and a nice sounding instrument, but, again, a different beast altogether.
Sorry I can't help more with the comparison you requested...good luck!
Br1ck
Dec-12-2016, 12:59pm
Yes, I can't imagine a more warm and woody sound than a Silverangel. There was an f style in the classifieds. You have to like distressed though. They go from lightly distressed to very distressed. The redwood top makes for a unique sound that is very resonant.
I'm looking for a darker more rounded tone quality.
To throw another complication at you - the type of pick makes a huge difference. A thinner pointer pick will pull a higher more brilliant sound, a heavier stiffer less pointy pick a deeper sound.
Test drive the mandolins you can with a range of picks and see if that helps.
In my experience, the type of pick makes a lot more difference in a mandolin than it does in a guitar. I have experienced the truth of this, but I am not sure why. The argument I have heard is that the mandolin is smaller, so "everything matters more."
pheffernan
Dec-12-2016, 5:57pm
Welcome!!! :) I may be very partial, but I felt the need to respond. Over the last 2 years, I have owned 10 plus mandolins including, a Kentucky KM900, a Givens Ode, a Morris, a Bulldog, a Pava, and a Weber. While all of these mandolins were fantastic in their own way, the Northfield Model M that I just acquired is hands down my favorite. The fit and finish are incredible, the tone is unique and sounds, to my ears, what I have always wanted to hear. I hope you find something that speaks to you :)
I'd be curious to learn how the neck profile of the Model M compares to your Pava, Andrew. And it looks like it's time, once again, to update your signature. ;)
pheffernan
Dec-12-2016, 6:00pm
Depends on whose ear is listening ! Only way to know for your ears is to own both.
Fixed that for ya! ;)
Which is a problem if there are no dealers around...
See above. :grin:
Bill Kammerzell
Dec-12-2016, 6:26pm
Never having done the taste test on the Northfield I can't do the comparison. I played numerous mandolins in Nashville over parts of a 2 day period this past June and the Weber River F14 I ended up with was the best sounding by far. As people say, "it spoke to me". It was a fantastic build also. Just beautiful. Kind of like the girl with beauty AND brains. (If you like that.) Plus it sounds better every time I play it. By far the best mandolin I have played or owned. Nothing close.
fscotte
Dec-12-2016, 9:01pm
Get a Nugget.
Ivan Kelsall
Dec-13-2016, 6:33am
I'd personally like to thank Johnny myself. Being a Weber owner,it's nice to hear what others think when comparing 'other' makes with a Weber. I'd agree with Johnny's assessment of the Weber 'bass' tone - it' isn't 'deep & woody',but it's most certainly there !.
Overall,my own Weber 'Fern' has what i'd term a 'modern' sound, crystal clear clarity reigning over a deeper bass tone. I wouldn't even describe the bass tone of my Ellis as ''deep & woody'' - beautifully rounded & clear yes,but D & W it ain't - that's where my Lebeda steps up to the plate !!.
All this is a ''matter of personal opinion'' & buyers must be aware of that. ''Our opinions'' are exactly that & they differ.
JeffD hit the nail on the head yet again - picks !. They can make a huge difference in the 'sound'
(tone / volume) that you get from a mandolin. 2 (or more) picks of different materials / thicknesses & shape can make a mandolin sound like 2 (or more) different instruments,so,even after making your choice of instrument,try out different string brands / gauges & different picks to see if you can optimise what you get from it.
I thought i'd hit the end of the rainbow when i put DR MD11 strings on my Weber for the first time,the difference was huge - then i bought some Dunlop ''Primetone'' 1.5mm thick 'teardrop' shaped picks, & the sound jumped up to yet another level !. You never know until you try & it's fun (mostly) doing it over time,
Ivan;)
Johnny60
Dec-13-2016, 2:05pm
Hi Ivan,
Thanks for the thanks!
As I said in my little review, they're both great brands and you can't really go wrong with either. At the end of the day, it's usually down to how you bond with the instrument "in your hands". And yes, picks and strings also make a real difference.
Interestingly, one day when the time is right and finances allow it, I'd love to get an A style Weber Gallatin (with f holes) to complement the beefy tone of my F5S.
atbuckner21
Dec-13-2016, 2:16pm
I feel like the Northfield has a small, rounded v neck. It's literally perfect for my hands, and I wouldn't change a thing about it :) I gotta change that again! :)
Luna Pick
Dec-13-2016, 2:58pm
I agree with the assessment of the Northfield M neck (I have one as well), although to me it's not particularly small, although that is relative. It's the most comfortable neck I've played, and luckily very similar to my other mandolin, so there's not much notice in that regard when switching.
Johnny60
Dec-13-2016, 3:24pm
Agree with Luna Pick, I don't think the Northfield neck is small in comparison to a Weber. I had an Eastman 505 and the neck on that felt tiny.
George R. Lane
Dec-13-2016, 3:37pm
When Bruce Weber owned the company you could request a particular neck profile, I have a soft v neck on my Yellowstone. I don't know if TOH still offers this option. I have only hear one Northfield,it belongs to BigSkyGirl and it is a really good instrument.
yankees1
Dec-13-2016, 5:15pm
To throw another complication at you - the type of pick makes a huge difference. A thinner pointer pick will pull a higher more brilliant sound, a heavier stiffer less pointy pick a deeper sound.
Test drive the mandolins you can with a range of picks and see if that helps.
In my experience, the type of pick makes a lot more difference in a mandolin than it does in a guitar. I have experienced the truth of this, but I am not sure why. The argument I have heard is that the mandolin is smaller, so "everything matters more." I couldn't agree more in regards to the pick !
Darren Bailey
Dec-13-2016, 5:18pm
Got to play three Northfields at a festival, one after another. If i hadn't got a wife waiting for me at home I'd have have walked away with one. Simply the most beautiful sound I've ever managed to produce from any musical instrument. Knowing they're out there is like a worm in my brain.
pheffernan
Dec-13-2016, 6:15pm
I feel like the Northfield has a small, rounded v neck. It's literally perfect for my hands, and I wouldn't change a thing about it :) I gotta change that again! :)
We might need some new videos as confirmation. ;)
Ivan Kelsall
Dec-14-2016, 3:25am
The one model of Northfield that has really grabbed my attention,is their NF-F2S,their version of a long necked F4 mandolin. When i first heard the one that Adam Steffey played in a YouTube Northfield mandolin demo.,it knocked me sideways !. I would love one & i wouldn't hesitate to use one in a Bluegrass band contect either,just for the ''difference''.
I don't kow of any music store close to me that stocks the Northfield mandolin,but i'd love to try one for myself. Making the 500 mile round trip to TAMCO in Brighton isn't on the cards just to do that. If i had the cash for an F2S ,that would be a different matter,
Ivan;)
PS - I posted this in another thread,but it won't do any harm to post it again.
https://youtu.be/x691vHh2rdg
Johnny60
Dec-14-2016, 8:14am
Hi Ivan - I got to try one of those out at The Music Room last year. It was amazing!
Fit and finish were great, as can be expected, but the sound was incredible and quite unlike any oval hole mandolin I'd ever heard before.
Not in the least bit tubby - it was LOUD, ultra-responsive, and had sustain that went on for days! But, the amazing thing was that it still had the power, focus and individual note articulation of an f-hole equipped A5 or F5. The guys in the shop were virtually drooling over it and, once I'd listened to it and played it, I could see why. Really punchy, full tone and cross picking sounded superb on it.
And it also had a really powerful percussive chop, and would have happily punched above its weight in a bluegrass setting.
Must stop now ... MAS is starting to kick in!
Ivan Kelsall
Dec-15-2016, 3:53am
Hi Johnny - That's just the way it sounded to my ears on the YouTube clip - anything but 'tubby'. I'm pleased to hear your own comments on how you think it would hold up in a Bluegrass scenario. If i had one,i'd get it out there & play the hades out of it with no hesitation, & let ''tradition'' take a back seat for once,
Ivan;)
Mandobar
Dec-16-2016, 9:28am
I have an F2s. It's a fine mandolin, but I wouldn't take it to a bluegrass jam. Old time jam or Irish session, yes, but it would not be my go to for bluegrass. This has nothing to do with tradition, just the sound and tone of the instrument.
bigskygirl
Dec-16-2016, 9:19pm
Greetings,
I'm a newbie mando player trying to find a nice mid grade f5-style instrument. I fought enough bad guitars years go that I'd prefer to get a decent mandolin that will let me concentrate on playing music not fighting the instrument. There is a Northfield dealer in my area and I really like how their instruments sound and play. But I keep seeing ads in the classifieds for nice looking Webers in the same general ball park price and I wonder how they compare tone wise -- the local dealer doesn't stock them... I'm looking for a darker more rounded tone quality. The Collings instruments I was able to test had a brittle quality I really wasn't fond of. For those who have played both where do the Weber Yellowstone, Bitterroot or Gallatin instruments fit tone wise?
Thanks,
guido
I played quite a few Webers before I decided on the Northfield and it came down to the neck profile for me. My friends have Webers ranging from Bitterroot to Fern and while they are all wonderful mandolins I just can't get comfortable with the neck. I'd say get what you feel comfortable with, the NF is a great value and I think the "bluegrass bark" is exceptional. If you can find a NF5S it's a very good value.
Do you have a chance to test other brands? I have an NF F5M which is the predecessor to the Artist Series. I played an AS this summer at Targhee and it was a very nice mandolin although pricer than mine was.
Check out the videos at the NF YouTube/Facebook pages there is video I shot of Emory Lester playing mine a few summers ago at Kaufman Kamp...I know it's on the Northfields Facebook page from June 2015.
Either one would be a nice mando for you.
Ron McMillan
Dec-17-2016, 3:53am
PS - I posted this in another thread,but it won't do any harm to post it again.
https://youtu.be/x691vHh2rdg
I must have watched all the Northfield clips a dozen times or more, but this is the one I keep coming back to. I wish I lived somewhere that would allow me to try one out in person.
Marcus CA
Dec-17-2016, 4:47pm
For those who have played both where do the Weber Yellowstone, Bitterroot or Gallatin instruments fit tone wise?
Honestly, I'm not much of a basic Northfield fan. The F5's that go in the high $2K's generally leave me cold, sounding sort of two-dimensional to me. However, I did play a MM at Gryphon in Palo Alto a few months ago that had great tone, but it was going in the mid-$4's, and now it's gone. The two F-5's are still there, unless these are newer restocked ones.
As for the Webers, I've had a Yellowstone for five years now, which is my keeper. I think that the Gallatin and Bitterroots are excellent instruments at their respective price points. The Bitterroots I've played have a woodier tone than the Gallatin or Yellowstone, which is a plus or minus, depending on your preference. My Yellowstone has a super-clean tone from the bottom to the top of its tonal range, but its tone also sounds richer to me than the basic Northfield F5's tone does. I would need to do a blind side-by-side test of it with the Northfield MM, though, to determine which mando's tone I like better.
If I remember right, Sierra Hull played a Weber (Fern), even though now seems to be playing a Gibson Master Model most of the time. There is a video somewhere of her playing her Weber Fern, I wouldn't doubt it if she still has the Weber in her collection.
Bill Kammerzell
Dec-17-2016, 6:32pm
If I remember right, Sierra Hull played a Weber (Fern), even though now seems to be playing a Gibson Master Model most of the time. There is a video somewhere of her playing her Weber Fern, I wouldn't doubt it if she still has the Weber in her collection.
I recall she had a Weber Octave when I saw her recently.
DataNick
Dec-17-2016, 7:01pm
I recall she had a Weber Octave when I saw her recently.
I believe Sierra's Weber is an Octave. She does play a Harvey signed 2009 (I think) Gibson Master Model that is very "Loarish" in tone per my personal experience of her letting me take it for a spin.
Concerning the Weber vs Northfield opinion, I'm with Marcus of NoCal...YMMV
George R. Lane
Dec-17-2016, 7:05pm
If you know of me, you know how I feel about Weber mandolins. My forever mandolin is a custom Yellowstone that Bruce and I personally picked out the woods, engleman top, quilted maple back, rim, neck and headstock overlay. That being said I have a high regard for the Northfields and the direction they have taken to improve their instruments tone. Hats of to them. I have only heard one Northfield in person, it is owned by bigskygirl and it sounded amazing. Those folks build a great mandolin and well worth the money spent. Bruce Weber will build again sometime in the future and I hope to buy the first one built. And if,(godforbid) Bruce chooses not to build then, I would take a close look at a Northfield.
DataNick
Dec-17-2016, 7:18pm
Hey George!
I remember when Bruce declared in a Cafe thread not too long ago, in true Arnold fashion
"I'll be back"...can't wait!
George R. Lane
Dec-17-2016, 8:17pm
Nick,
Me too. I want an A model with either Italian or red spruce and sugar maple back. I don't care about the color, just want it to sound great.
Ivan Kelsall
Dec-18-2016, 3:15am
This is Sierra playing her Weber "Fern". It was a promo.vid.made for her CD ''Secrets'' & to my ears,the Weber sounds every bit ''as good'' as what she plays today,but maybe 'different',as you'd expect,
Ivan;)
https://youtu.be/TfwTrICnLZo
guidoStow
Dec-19-2016, 3:58pm
Thanks everyone for your input on this. After a lot of advice, lots of listening to sample recordings, lots of near misses on instruments in the classifieds and trying all the instruments I could put my hands on I bought a Northfield F5S today. I'm really happy with its tone, how it feels and the beautiful workmanship.
Matt Harris
Dec-19-2016, 4:25pm
If I remember right, Sierra Hull played a Weber (Fern), even though now seems to be playing a Gibson Master Model most of the time. There is a video somewhere of her playing her Weber Fern, I wouldn't doubt it if she still has the Weber in her collection.
She still has it, and she had it with her on her most recent tour. Justin Moses played the Weber when he and Sierra did mandolin duets.
bigskygirl
Dec-19-2016, 7:45pm
Thanks everyone for your input on this. After a lot of advice, lots of listening to sample recordings, lots of near misses on instruments in the classifieds and trying all the instruments I could put my hands on I bought a Northfield F5S today. I'm really happy with its tone, how it feels and the beautiful workmanship.
Congrats!
Ivan Kelsall
Dec-20-2016, 3:31am
Hi Guido - Enjoy your new mandolin & thanks for reporting back - you'd be surprised at how many folks don't !,
Ivan
red7flag
Dec-20-2016, 9:10am
I have had Webers and while the ones I had did not speak strongly to me, it is clear that they really do to others. I do feel that Sierra gets a better sound from her Fern than the MM. It is a beautiful sing songy sound that really works for her music. In the early Daily and Vincent they played a Weber that really gave them a distinctive voice on their mandolin playing that also really fit their music. You can really hear that sing songy Weber voice when recorded. I really gravitate to it, except when I am playing. Go figure. I am in no way dissing the MM. The "Loar" sound is the predominant sound especially in bluegrass. I guess that is why the Weber, with its distinctive sound stands out when played in that music. I guess I like the Weber sound as a change of pace. Not sure how I would feel if every grass band played one.
Ivan Kelsall
Dec-21-2016, 3:19am
I've only played my own Weber,but i've heard several more played by others. The tone that Sierra's 'Fern' has (had) is exactly the same as mine - very strong toned,open,& crystal clear. The bass isn't anything like the Gibson mandolin sound,not as 'woody',but you can certainly tell it's there. The Webers have what i think of as a 'modern' tone,& i've played other makes with essentially the same overall sound. I don't know if they will tonally mellow with age,maybe somebody with an 'original' Weber could tell us,one of Bruce's 'first born' !. Terrific mandolins.
Here's a good example of the tone of a good Weber :-
Ivan;)
https://youtu.be/j11SYrqaodw