Jesse McReynolds

[Willie Poole]

For years I was a huge fan of Jim and Jesse but last night I watched his band of today and it is more of a Americana type band, using a claw hammer banjo and not doing any of his old bluegrass tunes, they did mostly folks songs...

I will say that his Stiver mandolin sounded the best that I have ever heard it, it must have gotten broke in over the last few years...I guess he take his music to the places that want to pay him the most and then he has to do what they ask for...This show was on Songs Of The Mountain...In my opinion this show has really gone downhill, I know the MC, Tim White, quit about a year ago so these are all older repeats...

Come back to bluegrass Jesse....:crying:

Willie

[Mandoplumb]

Willie Tim White didn't quit he was fired. Afterwards every act that was booked cancelled a d they couldn't get talent so the board that runs it was redone and Tim was called back with added benefits as I understand it. He was not gone long but I personally think he has some " help" choosing talent now. I agree it is not as good but Tim is still involved, I went to a taping this summer that had Doyle Lawson and tim's band and it was a good program don't know when it will be aired.

[jesserules]

Be sure to check out his "Songs of the Grateful Dead" CD. Or on second thought, maybe don't ;). I like it though & am not a GD fan particularly.

[Jeff Mando]

I like his mandolin playing, too. If you haven't heard it, another non-traditional LP they did was, Berry Pickin' In the Country, where they do all Chuck Berry covers. Not trad, but still great harmonies and pickin'! Fun record. :cool:

[sblock]

In his heyday, Jesse McReynolds was a flat-picking virtuoso on the mandolin. His right hand was simply amazing, and he could crosspick at blinding speed. He was incredibly original in his arrangements of tunes. But the years have taken their toll, and his technique is almost entirely gone now. He is, alas, not the player that he once was. The same thing happened with Ralph Stanley, who kept on playing well into his senior years, and well past the time when age had taking its inevitable toll on his banjo technique (at least some of his voice remained more intact, even after he could no longer play at tempo). And ditto for Earl Scruggs, who lost a step or two ... or three, towards the end of his life. And so it was for WSM, as well. Not one of these bluegrass legends retired at the top of their game, that's for sure! Perhaps their reasons were mainly economic, or perhaps they just could not give up the call of the road, after all those years. Who knows?

[Jeff Mando]

Perhaps the reasons were mainly economic, or perhaps they just could not give up the call of the road, after all those years. Who knows?

Bo Diddley was another artist that comes to mind, still touring up until his death at age 79. He said something to the effect of, "I'm happy for the work, but I shouldn't HAVE to work at my age."

[Timbofood]

The road takes people in a very strange way.
I have known several guys in road sales who when they retired were dead before a year had passed. They had loved the business and when they stopped doing what they loved they were lost. The constant being on the go keeps some people very happy and alert, it can keep them out past when they might have been better at home. For lack of a better term.

[Willie Poole]

Also the fact that many of the older performers didn`t have an agent/manager/CPA that they could trust to invest their money and look forward to a decent retirement so they had to keep performing on the road to keep from starving, others that were in business for themselves ran into the same problems...Today we have IRA`s to invest in and hopefully our money will be invested in stocks that will pay a nice dividend when retirement comes around...

Willie

[Ivan Kelsall]

Timothy - That does indeed happen. What these folk do is effectively ''who / what they are''. If they stop 'doing it',they cease to exist. I've had a number of older colleagues at work,who,on reaching retirement age 65,would have willingly have carried on working. One guy was one of our mosr experienced mechanical systems engineers. He'd been doing that job for 40 + years. At his retirement,he told us who'd gathered round, that he ''wasn't retiring,he was being sacked''. After he left,they had to get 2 of the guys who'd worked under him to do his job,which took them away from their own job. The company did the wise thing & brought him back as a ''Special Advisor'' - he couldn't keep the smile off his face for months when he came back.

Why do so many sportsmen make a comeback ?. It's because when they finished,they became a 'used to be',no longer the top guys & gals they once were. They lost part of their identity,'who they were' !. On the other hand,why do many people of wealth that we can't even dream of keep going ?. Again,it's ''what they do / who they are''. Do we really believe that The Rolling Stones need the cash ?. They have fans who still want to see them,so they perform for those fans,because 'that's what they do'. It's not greed as i'm sure some people think,it's far more important than that,it's about their ''identity'' & the drive to carry on is still there.

For me,on a purely personal note here,my favourite band of all time, ever - ''Eagles'',may never make a comeback after the sad passing of Glenn Frey,
Ivan:(

[AlanN]

In his heyday, Jesse McReynolds was a flat-picking virtuoso on the mandolin. His right hand was simply amazing, and he could crosspick at blinding speed. He was incredibly original in his arrangements of tunes. But the years have taken their toll, and his technique is almost entirely gone now. He is, alas, not the player that he once was. The same thing happened with Ralph Stanley, who kept on playing well into his senior years, and well past the time when age had taking its inevitable toll on his banjo technique (at least some of his voice remained more intact, even after he could no longer play at tempo). And ditto for Earl Scruggs, who lost a step or two ... or three, towards the end of his life. And so it was for WSM, as well. Not one of these bluegrass legends retired at the top of their game, that's for sure! Perhaps their reasons were mainly economic, or perhaps they just could not give up the call of the road, after all those years. Who knows?

Spot on.

It's very disheartening to see our idols decline. And if they live long enough, that decline of ability can be like night and day. And it can be contributed to, hastened by many things. Of the living, Jesse, Bob Osborne, Tony Rice come to mind. For those gone, there are many examples of dramatic decline - Barney Kessel, Lester Flatt, Jerry Garcia, many others. In the sports world, many examples of 'past their prime' - Ali, Reggie Jackson, Bill Walton.

Butch Baldassari held a 3-day World of Mandolin workshop in 1994. On the last day, he had Bill Monroe show up. This was 2 years before Bill passed. It was thrilling to have WSM spend the day with us, but he was a shell of the picker he was for decades. He brought the F-5 but did not play it. His ability had pretty much left him by then.

[Willie Poole]

You mean there is still hope for me to make a comeback? I`m over the hill but I don`t remember ever reaching the top...In a few days I`ll be 81 and don`t plan on cutting back on any band appearances....gotta do something to stay active, I still bowl and cut my own lawn among other things...

Willie

[UsuallyPickin]

Change is ubiquitous. If we live long enough we lose most of what we are or were. Speed is the province of the young, whether speaking of digital capability or memorization capacity. As a very late middle age or youngish old guy I am quite aware of that. But in truth if a person is doing anything at age 80 or above more power to them. Retiring at the top of any game for most means dying young. It is and will always be sad to see our heroes change, slow down or disappear, whether young or old. They shape our music and thereby our lives. R/

[CarlM]

Doc played up till shortly before he died. He lost some after his cancer surgery but still played better than I ever will. The music was part of who he was. People say he played for fun.

Earl Scruggs did not have to play. His wife had managed his money and career well. But he wanted too and his son would play with him which was a plus.

I saw Clarence White about this time of year in 1972. Six months later he was gone. It is sad that his career ended at the top of his game.

Les Paul played even with physical limitations. He was still worth listening to and he brought Frank Vignola along in his later years. That is a great legacy beyond the music he left himself.

A lot of these guys were and are still worth listening to. It's music and not a horse race. They still have something to say worth hearing.

[Mandomax]

Well said, Carl. Jesse McReynolds brought me to tears with his singing and playing during his tour behind his Grateful Dead album. No hot pickin, just raw emotion. One of the few times that has ever happened to me in public. Thanks Jesse.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I was down at English Park,Owensboro in 1992,at the open air concert on the Saturday after the IBMA festival. Jim & Jesse came on stage & played a couple of songs ok,then,when Jesse kicked off one song,he broke a string on his mandolin. A guy came on stage & brought him another mandolin (presumably his 'spare'),Jesse kicked off the song again & broke another string !!. He just carried on & played it.
I wish i could rememebr which song it was,i'd steer clear of it ,or it could cost a fortune in broken strings to play it !,
Ivan;)

[allenhopkins]

Went to a Bill Monroe concert sometime in the (late) 1980's; "Tater" Tate on fiddle, can't remember the other band members. Bill had some modestly talented female singer come out and do a set, backed by the Blue Grass Boys, who looked a bit uncomfortable.

When Bill took center stage, he did a few songs, then asked for requests. I was thinking, "I'm seeing Bill in his declining years" (as I'd seen Lester Flatt before), but I shouted out "Roanoke." He said, "Boys, let's play Roanoke," then kicked off a tight, fast, clean lead, everything falling into place. The band perked up, and ripped through the tune with precision and intensity.

So, even late in his career, he still could summon the chops developed since the 1920's. As always, I felt glad to see a "legend," but even more glad to hear him play the way I heard him on those 30-year-old LP's. When I saw Flatt with the Nashville Grass, helped on stage and off, hardly able to chord his guitar and turning over the musical chores to Curly Sechler, Marty Stuart, Benny Martin, Kenny Ingram and the rest of the band, it was more nostalgia and the wish to say, "Yeah, I saw him."

Monroe's performance was not only a chance to check the "saw Bill Monroe" box, but a rewarding musical experience. As I slide through my 70's, I respect even more the musicians who can still "wow" us after all these years.

[Willie Poole]

Allen, That's just about the way it was with Charlie Waller, he still had the great timing but needed help remembering the words, I guess I was just about one of his biggest fans....I loved everything he ever sang...

Willie

[Phil Goodson]

As has been said, "Great men are dying everyday. In fact, I feel ill myself." ;)

[Jeff Mando]

Johnny Cash's last albums produced by Rick Rubin cross my mind. Not his best work, but they still capture something intrinsic (to Cash) and are worth listening to. IMHO, they are hard to listen to because they show a frail side of a once virile artist, to the point that that don't sound like a Johnny Cash record at all -- probably more the vision of Rubin than that of Cash. However, I do admire that throughout his career Cash was open to trying new things.

[AlanN]

Billie Holiday comes to mind. The span of her career resulted in wondrous youthful beauty to harsh decay. To get the full and complete effect of her art, I suppose one has to check out her whole recording era. And some of the later period has some poignant moments, but I prefer to listen to her earlier works, as there was no one, before or since, who could touch her then.

[sblock]

Let's try to remember that ITM is folk music, and part of a great aural tradition -- and all that comes with that! It involves playing variations, ornamentations, cadences, and mixes of local styles and tune phrasing. It is NOT some of a classical, formal, and "written" tradition, and it never has been.

To capture ITM tunes -- and this was particularly true before the advent of electronic recording, which is quite recent! -- musicologists would write the tune down in standard notation, usually annotating the bare melody without most of the variations and ornamentations. Thousands upon thousands of ITM tunes were captured that way, and one can buy books full of these! But a great deal of the performance aspect -- and flavor -- of ITM was lost in the process, because these bare-bones, notated versions do not begin to capture the way such tunes were actually played.

NOTATION IS VERY POWERFUL, BUT IT IS INCOMPLETE. And the notation usually used for ITM is woefully incomplete. It typically does not capture the music particularly well, and it certainly does not capture the "aliveness" of the music that comes from subtle changes in emphasis and melodic variations.

Don't get me wrong: playing an ITM tune from some notation is a great starting point, if you have that skill! But it is just that: a starting point. Classically-trained players who read standard notation need to realize that the notes on the page can be a point of reference, but they are also a point of departure! They need to learn to respect the aural tradition, and all the richness that derives from that.

[s1m0n]

Let's try to remember that ITM is folk music, and part of a great aural tradition -- and all that comes with that! It involves playing variations, ornamentations, cadences, and mixes of local styles and tune phrasing. It is NOT some of a classical, formal, and "written" tradition, and it never has been.

To capture ITM tunes -- and this was particularly true before the advent of electronic recording, which is quite recent! -- musicologists would write the tune down in standard notation, usually annotating the bare melody without most of the variations and ornamentations. Thousands upon thousands of ITM tunes were captured that way, and one can buy books full of these! But a great deal of the performance aspect -- and flavor -- of ITM was lost in the process, because these bare-bones, notated versions do not begin to capture the way such tunes were actually played.

NOTATION IS VERY POWERFUL, BUT IT IS INCOMPLETE. And the notation usually used for ITM is woefully incomplete. It typically does not capture the music particularly well, and it certainly does not capture the "aliveness" of the music that comes from subtle changes in emphasis and melodic variations.

Don't get me wrong: playing an ITM tune from some notation is a great starting point, if you have that skill! But it is just that: a starting point. Classically-trained players who read standard notation need to realize that the notes on the page can be a point of reference, but they are also a point of departure! They need to learn to respect the aural tradition, and all the richness that derives from that.

You're right about ITM, but are you sure you posted to the right thread?

[sblock]

You're right about ITM, but are you sure you posted to the right thread?

Oops! Mea culpa. Thanks for the heads-up. Will re-post.

[tiltman]

I got to see the Osborne Brothers...probably about 12 years ago and they were awesome!
Sonny retired soon after that but Bobby is still out on the road...

Kirk

[Ivan Kelsall]

I was fortunate enough to see The Stanley Brothers over here at the begining on 1966, down in London at The Royal Albert Hall. At the end of '66 Carter sadly passed away,so the occasion took on even more importance - that really had been my one & only chance.
My fellow UK Cafe member & amateur luthier, Spruce 2, was there as well - a great & memorable evening,
Ivan

[Timbofood]

The thing to take from this discussion seems to be "See them as often as possible, we never know what's around the next corner." I have been lucky enough to have seen almost all of the pioneers of bluegrass music and cherish those memories.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Very true Tim !. I've been fortunate enough to see many of the top players both here & in the USA over the years. I was very,very fortunate to strike up a friendship with Bill Clifton when he lived in the UK, & also Mike Seeger due to his fairly regular visists to the UK , & his appearances at Manchester's main Folk venue,the Manchester Sports Guild (MSG).
My one & only meeting with Bill Monroe also at the MSG,will never be forgotten. I did meet Lamar Grier once more a few years later when he was a member of ''The Strange Creek Singers'',which also included Mike Seeger,Tracy Schwartz,Alice Gerrard & Hazel Dickens. I mentioned meeting him at the Bill Monroe MSG gig, & we had a nice long(ish) talk about the intervening years - a thoroughly nice guy,
Ivan;)

https://youtu.be/SB9jJroPa-k

[Bren]

Do we really believe that The Rolling Stones need the cash ?
I was listening to Keith Richards on "Desert Island Discs" the other night, and he said he still believes the Stones are improving as a band, and that keeps him interested.

He also mentioned some arthritic inflammation or swelling in his fingers but has adapted his playing to it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06kb0fw

I don't mind seeing old greats whose ability has declined. They often still have the soul that attracted you in the first place, with added experience.

[AlanN]

I don't mind seeing old greats whose ability has declined. They often still have the soul that attracted you in the first place, with added experience.

+1

[Glassweb]

Be sure to check out his "Songs of the Grateful Dead" CD. Or on second thought, maybe don't ;). I like it though & am not a GD fan particularly.

no, please DO go ahead and get this one... it's a fantastic CD and, with the exception one tune, not the usual Grateful Dead tunes you'd normally hear...

[Bill Kammerzell]

I saw Jesse last end of last June at Ryman Auditorium. Had a blond. Blond Mandolin. Couldn't tell the make. He was on the same stage with Del, Ronnie, Rob and Evan McCoury, along with David Grisman. I did notice he didn't use any of his patented cross-picking techniques, but there were no flies on his picking. Or as they say, "If there were any flies, they were paying rent." He can still play mandolin better than a lot of players. For him, decline is still above average. Just not great.

[Bill Kammerzell]

no, please DO go ahead and get this one... it's a fantastic CD and, with the exception one tune, not the usual Grateful Dead tunes you'd normally hear...

Mine just came today. Haven't listened to it yet, but I will. Starting tomorrow.

[mildini mandolini]

hi
I have been reading this thread with a mixture of sadness and annoyance. Why is it no longer okay for someone to grow old. I have never heard Jesse McReynolds live but have listened to many of his his records and now of course all this lovely you tube clips, read on his website and also some of the interviews. What I see is a gentleman who has loved to play music to his audience for 60 + years. I read in an interview where he said that once he recorded a solo to a song he would always play it that way as his listeners would expect it from him that way. No we could discuss how many of us would want him to play every time the same break or not, but it is somewhat beside the point. Important is that he feels so committed to his audience that he is doing that. Of course at 85+ his fingers are no longer as nimble as when he was 30 or 40. I still would love to see him live because he is true and authentic. I thought here at the mandolin cafe we are not like the gossip magazines that publish a beach picture of Sophia Loren at 75 and then make fun of her having some wrinkles on her belly.....
I love listen to old musicians, they don't need to play "too many notes on the mandolin" (and this is in no way in disrespect to Thile). I can hear their greatness in whatever they play. this is life folks, we are young one day and later old and if lucky very old.
there should be room and respect for our "idols" and for us equally at any stage
Stefan Mildenberger

[Jeff Mando]

hi
I have been reading this thread with a mixture of sadness and annoyance. Why is it no longer okay for someone to grow old.

Good points, Stefan! I recall BB King being criticized for losing his place in a solo, while in concert, during the last year of his life. I was also at an event where Scotty Moore was being honored, along with a bunch of other people. The crowd wanted him to play guitar, but without going into detail, someone announced Scotty wasn't going to play that night. Later, someone mentioned he wasn't able to play anymore, due to ??? Of course, Glen Campbell comes to mind with his Alzheimer's battle.

Sad, but a part of life and certainly doesn't take away from an artist's prior contribution, IMHO.

[Bill Kammerzell]

Tony Rice lost his voice for a time. None of us are really guaranteed anything. Not like any of us come with a warranty. I know a few people that have seen Jesse play lately and were surprised to learn he was 87. Or is it 88?

[Glassweb]

i've had so many long-time friends pass away in recent years i'm just pleased to be alive and still making music.

life is short, music is long... play on, play on!

[Ivan Kelsall]

Stefan -I don't think that anybody conciously 'criticised' any musician for growing old,they simply pointed to the fact that many of our loved musicians are now old. Decline in ability comes with advanced age,but we all know that. I'm a young(ish) 71 years old & i still reckon that i'm playing better than i ever did,purely because i've still been learning,but the day will come when i try to play one of my favourite up-tempo tunes & i won't be able to do it !!. That day will come sooner or later for all of us. Until that day arrives,we'll all carry on doing the best we can & enjoy it.

It is sad to see our musical heroes ability in decline,but it comes to all of us,so accept it & enjoy a ''different version'' of those guys & gals - they're still whole tiers of ability better than we'll ever be,:disbelief:
Ivan;)

[Bill Kammerzell]

Stefan -I don't think that anybody conciously 'criticised' any musician for growing old,they simply pointed to the fact that many of our loved musicians are now old. Decline in ability comes with advanced age,but we all know that. I'm a young(ish) 71 years old & i still reckon that i'm playing better than i ever did,purely because i've still been learning,but the day will come when i try to play one of my favourite up-tempo tunes & i won't be able to do it !!. That day will come sooner or later for all of us. Until that day arrives,we'll all carry on doing the best we can & enjoy it.

It is sad to see our musical heroes ability in decline,but it comes to all of us,so accept it & enjoy a ''different version'' of those guys & gals - they're still whole tiers of ability better than we'll ever be,:disbelief:
Ivan;)
This is true. You are correct. What I read was nostalgia more than anything else.

[sblock]

Stefan, you are reading this all wrong. No one is criticizing anyone for growing old. Besides, growing old sure beats the alternative! We bow our heads to the inevitable loss of powers that comes with advanced age, and we look back with great fondness -- and considerable nostalgia -- at some of our favorite musicians, whose powers were once formidable. We sometimes wonder what keeps certain professional musicians making music, often long after a good deal of their former technique has deserted them. Sometimes, it's simply the personal joy that music brings to them. Sometimes it's an aching sense of unfinished business, or a creative spark that will not die. Sometimes it's the siren call of the road, or some old habits that die hard. But all-too often, it's an economic necessity. Many of our favorite bluegrass musicians never made a lot of money playing this type of music. Or they made money but failed to save it. Or lost it. As Ivan wrote, it's sad to see our musical heroes decline. And there's nothing wrong with remembering them at their very best, and wishing that they didn't HAVE to keep playing into old age -- unless they WANTED to, that is!

[allenhopkins]

I think for some of us, going to see an aging musician, whose music we've loved for decades, has the aspects of an obligatory pilgrimage, rather than an occasion for musical enjoyment. I've seen many of my heroes –– Flatt, Scruggs, Monroe, Ralph Stanley, Wiseman, Reno, Stover, Everett Lilly, Duffey, Watson et. al. Not McReynolds, at least not yet, sorry to say.

In some cases, these musicians were capable of providing a top-notch musical experience, in others not; see my Post #16 above. In every case, I wanted to attend the performance largely based on the musician's history, pretty much regardless of how well he was able to play, as compared to the recordings -- sometimes nearly a half-century old -- that attracted my interest in the first place.

I'm well into my seventies now, and almost certainly not playing as well as I did 20 years ago. And I doubt anyone will come to one of my gigs based on my legendary iconic reputation, since I haven't got such a thing. I think I'm still able to provide enjoyment to an audience, and I'm grateful that I'm still above ground, ambulatory, and performing 200+ times a year.

For those musicians who do have legendary iconic reputations, and who are still performing for whatever reason, don't they deserve our support, respect, and concert attendance? Even if we're just "checking the box" to say we saw them live, it's an experience that we will undoubtedly remember, after they, inevitably, are taken from us.

[tiltman]

Sometimes it's an aching sense of unfinished business

I heard or saw an interview with John Hartford and he was saying that Bill Monroe was still coming up with tunes in his last hospital bed...

[AlanN]

Sometimes it's the siren call of the road...

...from Doc

[Timbofood]

The thing I have taken away from every chance I was lucky enough to see "the greats" is they were just as much consummate professionals the first time as the last. I'm certainly not trying to make disparaging comments about the talent fading, it never faded!
It was brighter some times more than others. They were always amazing!

[Glassweb]

the most astounding time i ever saw/heard Big Mon perform was towards the end of his life... two shows i saw up in Darrington WA. whatever Bill lacked in terms of fire in speed he more than made up for with heart, soul, subtlety and shading. i wish y'all could have been there...

Happy Holidays to Scott, his crew and all denizens of The Cafe...

[Bill Kammerzell]

The thing I have taken away from every chance I was lucky enough to see "the greats" is they were just as much consummate professionals the first time as the last. I'm certainly not trying to make disparaging comments about the talent fading, it never faded!
It was brighter some times more than others. They were always amazing!

Professionalism matters to me be it music, sports, just about any endeavor there is. Got to respect it.

[Bill Kammerzell]

Alan. That Doc tune was nice. Just beautiful. He makes all the strokes and strums count. Don't he? Saw him but once. With Merle. 1977. He was in his prime then.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I mentioned on here that i had the chance to see ''The Stanley Brothers'' when they played over here in 1966. Several years ago,Ralph Stanley came over with his band,but that was after he'd finished playing banjo. A friend of mine asked me if i was going to see him & i said no. He hauled me over the coals for that,saying i should go to see him,after all he ''was who he was'',one of the elder statesmen of Bluegrass. This friend hadn't seen him ''in his prime'' & i politely told him that i'd rather remember him 'as he was',not an old guy simply standing on a stage with a bunch of pickers. That's how i'll always remember Ralph & Carter Stanley - as they were in 1966,with George Shuffler on guitar, down at The Royal Albert Hall in London,
Ivan;)

[Timbofood]

Ivan, that is the way I have felt about many people's passing.
I had a wonderful visit with a friend and three days later he had a stroke, family flew in from all over the place, I was enlisted to help out in making sure people had food and I kept the kitchen cleaned up. His sister asked if I wanted to see him and gave me his room number. He had had lots of visitors and was not able to communicate very well which frustrated him so, I said "I would prefer to remember the visit from last week. He was the most open and talkative I had ever seen him." She smiled and said, "I don't blame you for wanting that to be a last memory."
I have an iris which he had ordered to plant in his garden that arrived shortly after his funeral, I planted it in my garden, I think of Tom every time a see it blossom!

[Glassweb]

back to Jesse for a moment... does anybody out there have a copy of Andy Statman's instructional manual on Jesse that they could sell or loan me? Many thanks if you do.