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BigMuddyRI
Dec-07-2016, 9:23pm
Hello,

I'm sure this has been discussed plenty, but the search terms are too generic to find anything useful.

I've built up a repertoire of 40 or so fiddle tunes, and instead of adding more, I'm now going to attempt learning a few different versions of my existing list. Ideally I'd like to take these tunes up the neck for some variation to the pitch.

I've learned my tunes with tabs, through oral instruction, or sites like MandoLessons.

I'm having a lot of trouble finding tabs for non-standard versions. I'm curious if anyone has a recommendation.

Thanks in advance.

Trav'linmando
Dec-07-2016, 10:19pm
I am going to have to ask for answers to the question also. My journey has brought me to the place where I am ready to move up the neck a bit. Basically how does one translate 1st position tab to 2nd and 3rd position ? Is this the place where I need to study the fretboard more?

Yikes the water is deep !!!!

A-board
Dec-07-2016, 11:44pm
Have you tried listening as you play the tune in relation to the chords? Can you find the chords up an octave, then can you find the notes to play within the framework of the chords? When I can learn a tune well enough to hear it and not have to look at the tabs, then I can move it up the neck into a new position; basically learning to play by ear.

At one point when I was learning a tune, I made a goal to figure out how to play it up the neck in this way. Hope this helps.

pops1
Dec-08-2016, 1:54am
I play some fiddle tunes up the neck, sometimes in as many as four places on the neck for variance. The thing that makes this possible for me is knowing my scales and knowing them up the neck. A tune is easily played up the neck if you know your scales and fingerboard. By learning the neck to improvise it has allowed me to play tunes, up the neck. I did so at a jam a day or so ago,had not done this tune up the neck, but it wasn't hard, just knew the scale and related that to the tune. Work on knowing your instrument to the 12th fret at least.

AlanN
Dec-08-2016, 7:01am
pops1 said it. Need to know your fingerboard. So, as example, fret 9 on G string is the same note as fret 2 on D string. In use, a tune like Whiskey Before Breakfast opens with

D string: 0-2-4-5, then open A string

Try this:

D string: 0, then 9 on G string (pinky), then on D string: 4-5, then open A

Andy Hatfield
Dec-08-2016, 8:38am
Ok: old school advice on how to learn the fretboard. Take a song you know by heart, and play it in every key.

You can even just try moving it up a fret. If you play a tune thats normally in G in the key of G#, you have a closed position that you can move anywhere on the mandolin.

At a certain point, ditch the tab. Hillbillies have been playing without tab for centuries. It's harder to learn tab up the neck than to do what musicians actually do--play out of closed positions.

Andy

Tobin
Dec-08-2016, 8:49am
I agree with jackofblack. Tabs are somewhat useful for open position playing, but they lose their worth when you go up the neck. Best way to learn to play up the neck is to start playing out of closed positions and learn the patterns across the strings, regardless of which position you're in. Once this clicks in your mind (trust me, at some point it'll be an "aha!" moment), going up the neck isn't nearly as intimidating.

The FFCP exercises from Jazzmando.com are a good place to start, just for learning scales up the neck and getting used to playing in closed positions. I find scales useful but incredibly boring, so it didn't take me long before I wandered off from scales and started experimenting with tunes. The trick of playing a tune up the neck is to figure out where your "base position" should be, and then lock yourself mentally in that position. If, say, you're playing in G and you want the 5th fret to be your home base (using the G at the 5th fret of the D string as your root), then lock this into your head and play everything in the tune from there. Keep in mind that you can still go below that 5th fret as needed, and this is the beauty of up-the-neck playing. FFCP can come in really handy here for learning the patterns. But you have to establish where your home base is for the key you're playing. So yes, you have to study the notes up the neck. You need to immediately be able to identify every note, or at least where it is in relation to your root.

Aside from FFCP, I think there's a lot to be learned from studies of double-stops. These double-stops are just intervals, and they very much help when you go up the neck.

JeffD
Dec-08-2016, 9:11am
Getting up the neck, however you do it, is a really great thing. Its like learning to fly.

I have never heard of tabbed up the neck alternatives to the standard fiddle tunes.

I have an idea for you though. (I know its not what you are thinking but I have to say something when the keys to the cookie store are right next door to where you are looking.)

What would have made it a lot easier for me, and is something I do now - I read exercises that are written to get me up the neck. I am especially enamored with the two books by Todd Collins. Fretboard Studies and Modes on the Mandolin.

The exercise are in notation and tab, so you can know exactly what Todd is getting at and how he wants you to place your fingers.


151981

Instead of working on the tunes directly, work on the exercises. In your fiddle tune life just play and enjoy and learn more tunes.

The exercises will get your fingers and head and your ears rewired (I don't know how else to describe it), so that working out your fiddle tunes by ear up the neck, in different keys, up an octave, whatever, will all of a sudden become almost intuitive. Its like your fingers and ear decide to cooperate.

Exercises are like magic dust. They help everything, not just getting better at the exercise (as I used to think), but they surgically focus on hand, ear, and brain manipulations that make everything easier. And these two books by Todd Collins are really helpful for exactly what you are trying to get done.

It just feels like going the long way.

I know this sounds like a commercial, but I have no financial interest whatsoever.

UsuallyPickin
Dec-08-2016, 11:46am
Well ..... this is what closed position playing is all about. Moving tunes into the second octave and finding harmony on both the open and noted strings from those starting points. Scales and arpeggios starting on the index and middle and ring fingers starting from a noted rather than an open string. The above mentioned books are good ones. Look into FFCP literature also. R/

BigMuddyRI
Dec-08-2016, 8:44pm
Thanks all - good advice.

Trav'linmando
Dec-09-2016, 12:03am
Thanks to all of you for the help. This will give me some more stuff to work with.

JeffD. I really appreciate the Todd Collins reference. Books are my friends.

Larry

RodCH
Dec-10-2016, 11:18am
If you have played a tune enough to know what it sounds like, just try switching to a different key . . . which means start the tune with a different note, then play all the notes in relation to that one. Start with a higher note, and you will end up higher up the neck. Of course, you won't be able to use any (or many) open strings.

I find myself doing this by accident all the time, just because I can remember the tune, but can't remember where it starts. So I just play it wherever I happen to start out.

The great thing about the mandolin is that the upper part of the fret board is just like the lower part. All the relationships you are used to are just the same. And the frets are a little closer together, which can help with speed and with stretching.

Doesn't help so great with 4 course chords though. But then, I don't play many of those.