Good pickup for live work?

[Johnny60]

Hi folks,

99% of the time I play in my own house or with some friends in a small acoustic jam.

However, every now and then I stand in with a local country rock band, playing electric guitar and a bit of mandolin. The mandolin is usually miked up with a condenser, but we've had a few issues here and there with feedback.

Was just wondering, IF I decided to go down the pickup route, what's a good system that doesn't involve butchering the mandolin, drilling holes in the top or the bridge, or sticking something to the front of the mandolin with gaffer tape?

I've seen a number of mandolin players who have their end-pin converted into a jack socket, but have no idea what pickup has been installed.

Also, will having a pickup system fitted adversely affect the acoustic sound of the instrument (which is how it's played most of the time)?

[Mandobart]

There are a TON of threads on this subject here the Equipment Forum. I have always used twin head piezo's mounted under the soundboard. I place one head directly under each bridge foot contact point if possible (tone bars, braces, etc. may dictate differing location). Many people prefer internal or mando mounted mics. I have had good sound using these JJB PPS-200 (http://www.jjb-electronics.com/PPS-200.html) for everything from fiddle to upright bass. Coupled with a good DI/preamp or acoustic amp, I can get good sound without feedback while playing with a band, though most of the time I play solo or duo.

I have not detected any change in acoustic tone or playability with these pu's. For output jack you can use an endpin jack (http://www.stewmac.com/Pickups_and_Electronics/Components_and_Parts/Jacks/Fishman_Switchjack_Endpin_Jack.html) (cleanest looking and sounding, may be difficult to get through some f-holes, in which case I recommend one of these (http://www.guitarfetish.com/Chrome-Guitar-Endpin-jack-Perfect-for-Acoustic-Guitars_p_157.html)) or a carpenter jack (http://www.electricviolinshop.com/carpenter-jack-violin.html) (no holes to drill in tail block).

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

The best is the K&K twin internal. Great option if you don't mind reaming out the end pin. Sounds like you don't want to make any changes though.

Second best is the LR Baggs radius. No drilling, pickup sticks on the top with 2 sided tape they give you (looks good, just right under the pickup so you can't really see it). Sound isn't quite as good but It is still good.

With both you really need a preamp or a good acoustic amp to get the best sound quality.

[pops1]

If you want a K&K you don't need to ream the end pin, the Tapastring Jack will let you use the K&K with an endpin that accepts a smaller 1/8" plug instead of the typical 1/4".

[Mandobart]

I've used both the K&K Twin and the JJB PPS-200. Build and sound quality are equal. JJB costs less and is a smaller round head (available in 15 mm or 20 mm diameter). The 15 mm JJB fits in my fiddles where the K&K won't; K&K is a kind of oblong diamond shape. No complaints about K&K support. Support from Jessie at JJB has exceeded my expectations now for several years. NFI from either company.

[pops1]

I have used the smaller and larger K&K pickups, the larger K&K is only for mandolin and is specially made for mandolin. It is thicker than the smaller ones or any of the line for that matter. It is designed to make the mandolin sound like a mandolin. I know it costs more than the smaller ones, but as fussy as the mandolin is to get a good sound amplified, and I tried many, many ways. The K&K is by far the best in my opinion.

[mandroid]

Loud enough band & any acoustic pickup turns your mandolin + a pickup into a spruce diaphragm microphone.

and feedback from monitors happens..

It's stage craft more than hardware, choices. maybe try that first?

[Johnny60]

Many thanks for all the advice, folks. Will start to investigate all the options.

[DHopkins]

I have a Schertler pickup in one Breedlove and K&K in the other. Both work great. I don't think you could go wrong with either. Both were installed during the construction process.

I have tried other pickups (L R. Baggs, Fisher, etc.) in my other mandolins and they worked quite well but I don't think they worked as well as the Schertler and K&K.

[Timbofood]

Chevy Silverado
Sorry, I'm heading back to my corner now.

[almeriastrings]

Ease of use and internal install: K&K (or JJB), if you do not want to damage your mandolin use the Tapastring Vintage Jack. These are great. They work really well. A bit on the pricey side, but you can transfer them and keep them if you ever sell the mandolin.

151135

There are pickup systems that personally, I feel sound somewhat better.. one is the AKG C411. This is a condenser-based system. It has none of the 'quack' that can occur with piezo units. The drawback is that it is a pain to install internally and needs custom cables...

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/entry.php?882-AKG-C411-Internal-Install-and-Custom-Cables

I rarely use a transducer, but I have one of these in my Ellis, just in case.

[mandroid]

I got a portable Schertler Dyn M then a Mix A5 with one built in, as it has the signal of a microphone

no additional pre amp is needed . just plug it into the channel input for a mic , there is a preamp in the signal chain , next.


the Schertler preamps do give local control and let you split out a dry output to house board,

and have a local , to a powered monitor, control.. [pre a 3 show up on the classifieds,

so some get them and don't find they're that needed..]

[James Rankine]

Johnny

How you doing. Sorry I haven't been making it to the bluegrass jam - I've become entrenched in the Irish session of late. Before you start drilling holes or sticking things onto your rather nice Northfield have you thought of other ways of addressing the feedback issue. I know you're a great mandolin player (well better than me) but I'm guessing your country band isn't playing an upcoming gig at the Leeds Arena. We've both seen top class American mandolin players in bands working around mics with no feedback problems so I think the problem is not you but the rest of the band. You just need to get them to turn the volume down a bit! Either that or get yourself along to the Irish session - we're all acoustic, no feedback problems but you'll probably need a banjo :)

[Johnny60]

Thanks to all for the great replies.

James - thanks!! Will hopefully catch up with you soon.

[Chanmandolin]

I use an "LR Baggs" pickup and it works just fine...BUT ill say that without a Preamp EQ Pedal , It wasnt the sound I was looking for. With the preamp, I can handle it.

*For traditional bluegrass music, I find the clip on mics work the best if you have a decent sound guy

[cohenj]

I have the LR Baggs Radius on my Eastman MD-815v, mounted externally. I play it through a Radius ToneBone PZ-Pre out to the sound board. I don't have much experience with Mando pickups, but to me it sounds fine, woody and warm, plenty loud without feedback (though a lot of that credit probably goes to the PZ-Pre). My only complaint is that I would rather have it mounted internally and I don't have the skill to do that myself. Eventually I'll probably have it done professionally.

[John Kelly]

I have been following this thread with interest and decided that I'd go for a pick-up for my mandolin rather than the mic I tend to use when playing bigger or noisier venues. I decided to look at the JJB products after reading comments here and elsewhere and e-mailed Jessie Vallad at JJB for further info. Jessie replied within an hour and answered my queries in detail. He also told me how he'd ship he pick-up to me - I live in Scotland - and explained the postage system, possible other charges, etc. I ordered a Standard PPS200 and this is already on its way to me. Just felt I'd like to let folk know of the great service Jessie offers in this age of e-mails going unanswered and stories of poor customer service which appear on forums too often.

A thanks too to Roger Williams Guitars here in the UK. I found Roger's site while looking for info on the JJB products and he advised me (again very speedily) to contact Jessie directly. I have no financial interest in JJB or Roger Williams Guitars.

[John Kelly]

Got the JJB PPS200 pickup within a week from the States - less time than some packages take to be delivered from within the UK! Including postage the order came in below the level for customs duty, so a very happy customer here with a great pickup system for around £24 and from a guy who really gives a great and speedy service.

I have fitted the pickup today into my mandolin and even through the wee battery-powered amp I use in my workshop for testing, the tone I am getting from this twin pickup is excellent. I have ordered another of the same for my octave, so looking forward to this one arriving any day now. One addition I have made to the fitting of the jack is to put a plastic washer cut from an old cutting mat behind the jack socket inside the mando body to add a bit of strength to the area where I have drilled the hole. If I had been fitting this as part of the build process I'd have added strengthening to the area anyway, and the slight flexibility of the washer allows the socket to conform better to the curve of the instrument's side.

A big thanks to Jessie J Vallad of JJB Electronics. No financial interest other than delight at Jessie's service and prices.

[Drew Streip]

I love my K&K Twin Fusion: http://kksound.com/products/mandolintwin.php#simple2

No butchering the mando. The pickups stick to the inside with either the supplied double-stick tape, or some blue tack putty.

The sound, in my opinion, is very good. I've had a dozen sound guys comment on how balanced the sound is.

Many people don't like the look -- but I don't care. I honestly think it looks cool. I have an armrest too, so my whole mando is "accessorized."