View Full Version : Blue Chip nut
Bill Burch
Oct-22-2016, 5:23pm
I know that the material used for Blue Chips picks is astronomically expensive. I also know from my own experience with several picks and from reading many Forum entries that the material has a lot of qualities that would seem to make excellent nut material. Self-lubrication, consistency of material, hardness, takes a polish, resistant to wear, etc.
Has anyone with deep pockets or access to this material ever attempted making a mandolin nut from it?
Bill
Don Grieser
Oct-22-2016, 5:29pm
Maybe it could be inlayed into the top of the nut instead of making the whole nut out of it?
Jim Bevan
Oct-22-2016, 6:01pm
Does Scott's server have room for the resulting threads? :)
Timbofood
Oct-22-2016, 7:20pm
Does Scott's server have room for the resulting threads? :)
Brilliant!
When I saw the thread title, my mind went elsewhere. A 2.5 mm. veneer on a Corian blank might be very interesting indeed...
I will look again in 24 hours to weed through the subsequent 500 posts!
Ivan Kelsall
Oct-23-2016, 2:53am
Quote - " Self-lubrication, consistency of material, hardness, takes a polish, resistant to wear, etc.". To a great degree,natural bone has all those properties. Regarding 'hardness' - no 2 batches of man made materials are 100% the same. They will all differ to some degree,that's why hardness & impact resistance testing is done on each batch. The 30 year old bone nut on my Stelling banjo is as good now as it was when it was new. Bone has been used for 'ever',so why change for changes sake ?.
Corian / Tusq / Micarta have been around for a while now,but i still see more instruments with bone nuts than, any other material,
Ivan
AlpineDave
Oct-23-2016, 3:59am
I thought this was a thread about someone who was crazy about Blue Chip picks.
Tom Sanderson
Oct-23-2016, 7:05am
150544 I think that my Nugget Ajr has a nut made with the same material that blue chips are made from . He (Mike) used it on all of the Ajr models he built (around 12). I'll ask him about it when I talk to him.
How about a pair of Blue Chip cuff links ? :mandosmiley:
Oliver A.
Oct-23-2016, 12:49pm
I thought this was a thread about someone who was crazy about Blue Chip picks.
I'm crazy about these.
http://i.imgur.com/kArbyfE.jpg
Tom Wright
Oct-23-2016, 12:55pm
Graphite Tusq can be had with lube impregnated. In my experience the nut material matters almost not at all. I've used bone, Micarta, Tusq, and aluminum. I now feel there is no advantage in a slippery nut---some friction helps maintain tuning while playing, even if it makes tuning those longer strings less responsive.
Fretbear
Oct-23-2016, 1:13pm
I'm crazy about these.
Great name too.....
http://www.stewmac.com/Materials_and_Supplies/Nuts_and_Saddles/Black_TUSQ_XL_Nuts.html
Yeah these already have that "niche market" covered. I've had one on my F5 for years and they work great and look sharp if you have a black mandolin. I'm a locksmith and I use PTFE (teflon) spray lube (what these nuts are impregnated with) instead of the WD40 that everyone loves to gunk up lock cylinders with.
WD40 is, from what I heard, 60% water. I never use it for lubrication. Strangely enough if you have an older vehicle with points and the distributor gets wet it will displace water and get your vehicle started.
Back to the subject at hand.
Bill Burch
Oct-23-2016, 6:38pm
Granted, there are other products out there that are self-lubricating, but most intriguing to me is the durability and tone. Yes, the hardness of the bridge and nut do have an impact on the sound. Otherwise, why else would we find so many options..bone, ivory, pearl, aluminum, ebony, rosewood etc. I have BC picks that I've played a LOT for 3 years and the bevel is still fresh. Imagine a nut that could be honed to perfection that would withstand hundreds of string changes and thousands of tunings. And bring that BC "magic" to boot.
Sign me "still intrigued".
Bill
I like the idea for wear, but the nut really doesn't play much of a role in sound of the instrument considering most of the playing is on the frets and not the nut. I have used bone, tusq, the black tusq that is lubricated, ebony nuts on the same mandolin with no discernible sound difference.
sblock
Oct-23-2016, 6:58pm
WD40 is, from what I heard, 60% water. I never use it for lubrication. Strangely enough if you have an older vehicle with points and the distributor gets wet it will displace water and get your vehicle started.
Back to the subject at hand.
No, sorry -- WD40 does not contain water! Whoever told you that was terribly mistaken. In fact, the "WD" in WD40 stands for "water displacement" (and formula #40). It consists of an oil contained in a volatile (low vapor-pressure) hydrocarbon solvent. The hydocarbon carrier is designed to pick up a bit of any small amount of moisture around and then evaporate after application, leaving behind only a microscopically thin film of oil. The original idea was to DISPLACE any water that might be clinging to the treated surface, and thereby to provide protection against corrosion. Hence the name! WD40 also has the side effect of providing lubrication, which is what is it often used for these days, but it was originally designed to prevent the oxidation of metal, and not as a lubricant.
It's never a good idea to use WD40 on your mandolin! It can get into the fretboard and joints too easily, and make a real mess. If you need to use a small amount it lubricant, then use graphite or something teflon-based (like TriFlo), and apply it sparingly to small areas, like the nut or bridge, taking great care to wipe away any excess immediately. And stay clear of any areas with frets or inlays!
I love this place, learn something all the time. Thanks sblock
FLATROCK HILL
Oct-23-2016, 9:49pm
sblock, I agree with you that it is not a good idea to use WD-40 as a lubricant on the mandolin. As you say...its specific purpose is not as a lubricant. I do have to take exception to your statement: "It's never a good idea to use WD-40 on your mandolin!"
There are folks (Adam Steffey for one) who wipe down their strings with the stuff. In that case, it's not really being used as a lubricant, but exactly for the purpose you described. To provide protection against corrosion.
I don't happen to be one of the people whose skin chemistry turns strings green after a half hour of playing, but I know a few people who do have that problem. A wipe with a cloth lightly sprayed with WD-40 seems to help extend the life of their strings.
(By the way...Although it may seem like I'm picking on you, that isn't the case. It's just that every time you post something, there'a always a tiny bit of it that I need to straighten out.) :)
Ivan Kelsall
Oct-24-2016, 2:20am
I heard of WD40 as used for spraying car battery / engine connections to get the car going after moisture ingression. Spray it onto the battery / engine connections & it displaced any moisture that was draining the battery charge. It does has slight lubricating proerties & it'll remove 'gunk' as well. I've used it myself to wipe my mandolin strings over to clean them,but now when needed,i use ''Servisol'' Elec.Switch cleaner . Servisol is made to both remove oxidisation from elec.switches & to lubricate them as well. Spray some onto a clean cotton cloth (old handkerchief), wipe over the strings & then wipe it off. It's amazing how much gunk accumulates over time. New un-wound strings usually arrive with a slight coating of the graphite lubricant that was used to lube.the drawing dies,so they need a wipe over to begin with. The A & E nut slots on all my mandolins are black inside the slots as testament to that fact.No lubrication has been anywhere close to them. The only thing that i've done to the slots is to polish them.
In his book ''Earl Scruggs & The 5-string Banjo''. Earl mentions his use of brown (bag) paper to polish the edge of his thumb pick. Use a small piece of brown paper folded to produce a 'knife edge' & polish the nut slots for a few minutes. Doing that does only 'polish' the bottom & sides of the slots,it doesn't make them deeper or wider. If you do that,you'll all end up with nice,shiny nuts,
Ivan;)
I want to see (or more importantly hear) a mandolin with Blue Chip material at the nut, saddle, and frets. Might as well go whole-hog.
The saddle would make a huge difference, light and strong. I would hire out the fitting of the foot tho, seems like it would take a long time if it was all BC material.
Marty Jacobson
Oct-24-2016, 11:12am
I use Micarta (Garolite brand phenolic resin) containing graphite lubricant for nuts and string spacers. It would be indistinguishable from the material used for Blue Chips in this application. I use it because it's black, looks nice, works superbly, and not everybody likes the idea of a piece of animal bone on their instrument.
150579
150578
Jeff Mando
Oct-24-2016, 11:21am
Strangely enough if you have an older vehicle with points ......
I still drive a horse and buggy, but someday I hope to get a one of those cars with points! :))
As I have said many times on this forum, this forum has an unfair hatred of WD-40, which I personally regard as one of the modern wonders of the world! (and have used for instrument repair and maintenance for decades....) ;)
NewKid
Oct-24-2016, 11:46am
I use Micarta (Garolite brand phenolic resin) containing graphite lubricant for nuts and string spacers. It would be indistinguishable from the material used for Blue Chips in this application. I use it because it's black, looks nice, works superbly, and not everybody likes the idea of a piece of animal bone on their instrument.
150579
150578
I love the zero frets Marty!
Marty Jacobson
Oct-24-2016, 12:28pm
I love the zero frets Marty!
Yes, they make life much easier.
fatt-dad
Oct-24-2016, 1:43pm
. . . and the Greeks like their Windex!
I think the B/C nut is a great idea!
f-d
Whatever they would cost,the BC nut would never ever be worth it, despite the hundreds of rave reviews.:)
Marty Jacobson
Oct-24-2016, 2:43pm
OK, let me see. Normal pick costs about $0.35, Blue Chip costs $35. Normal nut costs about $60, fitted and setup. So I should be able to charge $6,000 for a polyimide nut, and the materials will cost me less than $100. Sounds like I am open for business. Come 'n' get it!
Actually, I think I will do one of these on my next mandolin, just to be ridiculous.
Jeff Mando
Oct-24-2016, 6:36pm
Actually, I think I will do one of these on my next mandolin, just to be ridiculous.
Marty, correct me if I am wrong, but if you are using a zero fret, the zero fret (metal) is the actual nut that the open strings ring off of, right? And the nut really just serves as a string spacing device, so the material should be of little importance, correct?
Ivan Kelsall
Oct-25-2016, 2:41am
From Marty Jacobson - " Normal nut costs about $60,...". Hell fire, you say !!!. :disbelief:What type of material is that Marty ?. It's one dickens of a price !. I can buy a bone nut blank for £3.50 UK ($4.30 US). I assume that yours must be Micarta / Tusq or similar ?,
Ivan;)
pheffernan
Oct-25-2016, 5:17am
From Marty Jacobson - " Normal nut costs about $60,...". Hell fire, you say !!!. :disbelief:What type of material is that Marty ?. It's one dickens of a price !. I can buy a bone nut blank for £3.50 UK ($4.30 US). I assume that yours must be Micarta / Tusq or similar ?
You omitted the portion of Marty's post that read "fitted and setup," which probably accounts for the price difference.
Ron McMillan
Oct-25-2016, 6:37am
After the nut from BC (only really uncool people use 8 letters when 2 do nicely) gains must-have status, I look forward to the sound of generalised anguish and tearing out of hair when Chris Thile is spotted using a new nut made from Wegen plectrum material.
Bertram Henze
Oct-25-2016, 12:20pm
Yet another approach to changing the player's perception so he can endure his own playing.
Marty Jacobson
Oct-25-2016, 12:32pm
Marty, correct me if I am wrong, but if you are using a zero fret, the zero fret (metal) is the actual nut that the open strings ring off of, right? And the nut really just serves as a string spacing device, so the material should be of little importance, correct?
Hence why it's so ridiculous. :-)
I'm crazy about these.
http://i.imgur.com/kArbyfE.jpg
Now all we need is some Blue Chip Dip and we're all set.
Ivan Kelsall
Oct-26-2016, 3:29am
From pheffernan - "You omitted the portion of Marty's post that read "fitted and setup," which probably accounts for the price difference. " . Yep !!,:redface:
Ivan;)
Paul Busman
Oct-28-2016, 8:06am
I've only played one Blue Chip, from the pick tour. My recollection is that it had a certain small amount of "give" to the surface when tested with my fingernail. It didn't totally resist nail pressure like, say glass or even some pick materials like the Dunlop Primetones.
If that's correct, wouldn't that transmit less vibration from the strings to the neck?