Ukulele to Mandolin conversion for child

[djc227]

I have a daughter that is interested in playing, but she is only 5 and lacks the finger strength to push down the mandolin strings. I saw that you can get a decent Kala Ukulele for about $55 on Amazon and then Aquila sells the GDAE string set so you can tune in like a mandolin. My thought was that I could teach her on the easier nylon strung ukulele until she is a little older and then she could play one of my Mandolins. Then I would be able to play along with her on one of my mandolins. Has anyone else done this? My only concern is that it may be just as easy to learn the ukulele and teach her, but I've always loved the way the mandolin is tuned in 5ths and thought it would give her a more versatile instrument to play when she is of age to graduate up to the actual mandolin. I guess the question is: Would you learn the ukulele and teach her to play it, or would you go ahead and put on the GDAE strings and effectively teach her to play mandolin?

[Chris Daniels]

I have a banjolele with the 5ths tuned Aquila strings and it's a lot of fun to play. Definitely easier to fret compared to a regular mandolin. I'd say go for it.

C.

[Jim Garber]

At best a 5 year old will only strum chords, not necessarily play single note melodies. I don't think it makes that much of a difference what tuning it is in but it might be less confusing for you to have to translate from one tuning to another esp if you are not a uke player. Also, she can sort of watch and copy what your fingers do. I think we had a cheap uke around the house when our kids were that age and it got sat on by one of their cousins so I would not give her ready access to your 24 Loar F-5 as yet, :) tho I am sure she will learn to be careful with her instrument.

[dwc]

I see this as two separate but interrelated questions.

1) Should you get her a Ike? Yes. Absolutely. Learning any string instrument that young will help her pick up new instruments as she gets older.

2) How should I tune it? Depends. I actually think tuning in fifths makes many things easier, the fretboard is more logical, and playing single note melodies is easier. However, I think chords are more difficult from a purely physical standpoint. There aren't many "easy" chords on an instrument tuned in fifths. Uke tunings have many more opportunities for open position chords.

[dhergert]

Learning to play the uke well is just as much a science as learning to play the mandolin well. She may like the uke as her main playing instrument. With that in mind, why not let her learn it in the standard uke tuning so that if she wants help from other uke sources, they will be talking about the same fingering?

Disclosure: I use taropatch C tuning on my mandolin. While I love the tuning, it makes it very hard to talk about chords and fingering with "normal" mandolin players.

(My wife reminds me, "Normal" is just a setting on the dryer.)

-- Don

[djc227]

DWC: The chording is actually one of the reasons I wanted to tune it to GDAE. I think the two finger mando chords are easier than the uke chords and I would have to learn a 3rd set of chords in order to teach her (guitar, mando, uke). At least with the exception of C and Am the mando chords seem easier.

dhergert: That's my main dilemma is do I let her learn the uke chords and then her primary instrument is the ukulele? (which means I'd also have to buy a ukulele so she can mirror my fingers) Or do I tune it to mandolin and her primary instrument is the mandolin? Either way she'll probably end up playing guitar most of the time when she gets older because no one else around here plays mandolin, so they can't follow you unless you're playing a guitar. It will be fun to play with her while she grows up though and may solve the problem of having no one else to play with!

[dhergert]

If it were me then, I'd get the uke, but I'd double check with her that she wants to learn mandolin. If she's willing to make that commitment, then the uke is a starter instrument for her to get into mandolin and using mandolin tuning sounds right for her.

She can change her mind and decide she really wants to play uke, but this at least gives you a direction to start her up as long as she currently really wants to get into mandolin. And if she stays on course for mandolin, when her fingers are strong, she'll already know the chords.

One other option is to actually get her a mandolin and only put 4 strings on it. That, with low action, would probably work ok for her at 5 years old.

Btw, my comment about taropatch C tuning on the mandolin was only to point out the difficulty that non-standard tunings produce in communicating with other players. But if a person has or develops expertise in a non-standard tuning, and if they are willing to be independent about learning more in that tuning, it can work pretty nicely.

It's nice to have options and choices, isn't it?

-- Don

[acousticphd]

My inclination would be to introduce a child to a uke on uke terms (and tuning), or as a "platform" to maybe learning guitar in the future.
I have never tried GDAE ukulele strings, and they may work very well, but I would lean toward stringing a mandolin with four very light gauge wound & steel strings. This will look and feel like she's really playing mandolin (which she will be), and that may enhance the sense of fun and interest.

[Dale Ludewig]

An option would be get the uke, tuned like a uke, but get a string set so that the 4th string (I forget the term for this) is an octave lower so that you don't have that 'my dog has fleas' effect. It actually is like a little guitar. As far as you having to get a uke so you can play along, you play mandolin. You need another little instrument (or two or three).

[Ddd]

I would never underestimate the ability of a child. If you want her to continue with a mandolin in the future I'd say going with standard mandolin tuning. I have a granddaughter who has been playing since the age for four, now at the age of 11. She great

[Cecily_Mandoliner]

I put the Aquila 5ths on my Kala Traveler uke, and used it this last week on my trip, so I could continue practicing mandolin tunes and chordings. I played with an acrylic pick because it doesn't have much drag on the strings. It sounded pretty good, and people who heard me play responded with smiles. (I played my mando-uke in a park across from the White House and on the steps of Jefferson Memorial)
I really liked it, but I was careful with the e string - it is very fine.
I think this would be helpful for a child, as long as you help her understand that it it different than a regular ukulele. Maybe, get two, one for standard and one for mandolin tuning, so she can learn both. Children learn so much quicker than adult learners, and what they learn sticks. (I still remember stuff that people taught me, showed me, and let me try, when I was 4 and 5 years old, and I am 49+). Also, have her try the real mandolin more frequently - so many of these great mandolin players started in their early youth...
Have fun!:mandosmiley:

[SincereCorgi]

I'd say just get her a regular uke, a really durable one like a Makala Waterman that's kid-proof, and teach her in normal ukulele tuning. Mandolin chords certainly aren't easier than uke chords, and you'll have your hands full for a while just teaching her to count and the names of the notes and so forth. There are lots and lots of good children's ukulele methods and very few mandolin ones. If she seems like she's going to be a prodigy, get her a violin and a good teacher. There are plenty of five-year-olds happily sawing away on their 1/8th violins. Just my 2¢. :)

[Joel Glassman]

dhergert: That's my main dilemma is do I let her learn the uke chords and then her primary instrument is the ukulele? (which means I'd also have to buy a ukulele so she can mirror my fingers) Or do I tune it to mandolin and her primary instrument is the mandolin?

This is a mando board, so my answer is mando :^)
I think its a better instrument for playing melodies,
and playing guitar is a better instrument for rhythm.

[Tom Wright]

It seems to me the best reason to use a fifths-tuned ukelele is teach reading. Suzuki-method or regular Tune-A-Day books would work fine, including fingering suggestions. Then the player is equipped to pick up mandolin for classical, or violin, or read jazz charts or play out of a book for ethnic dance tunes. As long as you're starting young, don't skip reading.

[pops1]

A baritone uke is tuned like a guitar if you think she will like to play guitar later. It only has 4 strings, but DGBE. When I started playing guitar I had 6 strings, but only used 4 to learn quicker. Then added the 5th and finally the 6th.

[fifths]

the only solution is two ukes with different tunings.

[EdHanrahan]

... two ukes with different tunings.

It was just a matter of time before yet another acquisition syndrome, UAS, rears its ugly head!

[djc227]

I guess I should have clarified that I already ordered the Ukulele, so the only issue is how to tune it. It's supposed to arrive today so I'll probably play around with it and then decide what to do. I ordered the Aquila fifths strings also.

[pops1]

When my children were small I got them uke's, I open tuned them so they could play and sound musical just by strumming or using one finger. It was a great way to impress upon them this is a real instrument, not like your plastic guitar. Just like an open tuned guitar chords can be made when ready, or the uke retuned. They always took care of their 'real' guitar, and both are wonderful musicians today.

[Kalasinar]

I think putting the GDAE strings on the ukulele and teaching her with that is better than confusing the issue with GCEA tuning. Unless she really wants to learn the ukulele as well... Last Christmas i picked up a nice Makala soprano ukulele for my friend who wanted to learn and i was really impressed with the quality. So i got another one second-hand for myself and strung it up with the Aquila fifths set. Worked nicely as a cheap beater/travel instrument until i got my pocket mandolin. An even more durable option would be the Kala Waterman ukulele.

[Ausdoerrt]

At best a 5 year old will only strum chords, not necessarily play single note melodies.
As someone who started on the violin in that age range, I'd disagree. It's all possible, but depends heavily on the interest of the child and the patience (lots, lots of it) of the parent/reacher :)

As for the OP, have you thought of a mandolin strung with light/extra light gauge strings? I can barely feel those under my fingers compared to medium/heavy, surely she'll get used to it given some time.

Also, wasn't there a thread about nylon mandolin strings in the last couple of months? Can't remember the name of the maker for the life of me.

[djc227]

I got the Kala 15s soprano and my daughter and I both loved it. Stayed with uke tuning, went through a 105 pg ukulele beginner syllabus last night and I really like it! I can play it while we're watching tv and the wife doesn't get pissed ;). I liked it so much I ordered a Kala KA-TG tenor uke so I could play with her (and explore a new instrument) with one day shipping! Talk about UAS! I'm going to tune the tenor to low G so there is more room to solo and see how that works out. It's pretty cool that you can get decent ukes for next to nothing when compared to decent mandos. My daughter can play a C chord correctly already but anything with more than one finger is pretty challenging. She loves singing along though and it's the first time we've really done that. Glad I made the purchase.

[fifths]

I got the Kala 15s soprano and my daughter and I both loved it. Stayed with uke tuning, went through a 105 pg ukulele beginner syllabus last night and I really like it! I can play it while we're watching tv and the wife doesn't get pissed ;). I liked it so much I ordered a Kala KA-TG tenor uke so I could play with her (and explore a new instrument) with one day shipping! Talk about UAS! I'm going to tune the tenor to low G so there is more room to solo and see how that works out. It's pretty cool that you can get decent ukes for next to nothing when compared to decent mandos. My daughter can play a C chord correctly already but anything with more than one finger is pretty challenging. She loves singing along though and it's the first time we've really done that. Glad I made the purchase.

Just about the only thing guaranteed to reduce me to a blubbering emotional basket case is playing music with my daughter. I hope you get the same joy from it. Imposing the practice discipline is tough, but eventually the ball will roll on its own. And yes, UAS is real.

[ProfChris]

As primarily a uke player I'm, of course, delighted to hear of new recruits.

There are quite a few one-finger chords, some real but most cheats that work well enough for kids to sing with.

C - 0003
C7 - 0001
Am - 2000
Am7 - 0000 (the no-finger chord)
A7 - 0100
F - 0010 (F9 really)

If she can cope with two fingers occasionally:

F - 2010 (no cheating, a real F, though 2013 is better long term)
G - 0230 (G6, but works pretty well)
Em - 0202 (Em7 really)

and of course:

0101 - Gdim (diminisheds are the most useful uke chords, so if she takes the instrument further make sure to teach these to her once she can manage four finger chords. 2323 is Cdim, and a movable chord shape so she can play all the others once she has this one).

[djc227]

Thanks for the tips. I didn't know about the importance of diminished chords. I will say that I really love the uke. I got the tenor Kala KA-TG in today and I'm just enthralled! One thing I don't get is the boycott on using a pick with ukes. What is that all about? It sounds so much louder and cleaner with a pick. Especially like a dawg pick with rounded corners. I don't understand the aversion to pick use. I'm going to use one anyway, and if the song calls for fingerpicking I will. Seems odd to have a diminished volume and sound if it can be avoided with the use of a pick. Especially when one of the big downsides to uke playing is the low volume.