They are still out there!

[Hallmark498]

So a trading friend of my fathers called him this week and said. "Hey there is a guy that called me that had an F5 he wanted to sell. He wanted 10K so I okay bring it by. Then someone else on in the background said the mandolin is worth 18K." Fathers friend said alright, bring it by and let me look at it. Well, the man that owned the F5 ended up taking it somewhere else that day and it happen to be a 23 loar.

[Jeff Mando]

Sorry you weren't able to snare the Loar. :crying:

[FLATROCK HILL]

So...the "guy that called" and "had an F5 that he wanted to sell" knew it was valuable, but didn't really know what he had?
If this really turns out to be a '23 Loar, and previously unaccounted for, it would be interesting to hear any ensuing details...serial number condition etc.
Keep us posted Hallmark.

[MikeEdgerton]

We actually had a Loar come out of the woodwork that way a few years ago. A member here had a neighbor that asked him to look at an old mandolin he had.

[Jack Roberts]

In 2004 a friend mentioned that after his mother passed away they found a old stringed instrument under her bed. He knew it was very old, probably from the 20s, and it was very nicely carved. He wanted me to look at it, because it looked a lot like the Collings mandolin he had seen me playing. What he was describing to me sounded like an F5! From the 20s! Maybe a Loar!

"Bring it around!" I said.

Well, it wasn't a 20's F5, but a 'teens F4 in pretty much unplayed condition. Second best, in my mind. A sweet sounding instrument that is a beautiful work of art and (almost) affordable.

5 years later I sold the Collings and bought the F4.

They are still out there!

[Jeff Mando]

I love this kind of a story! They are indeed still out there! Trouble is, once they seek a second opinion they always think the grass is greener and go with the other guy. I think that is how the big vintage dealers get the good consignment pieces -- they promise the owner anything they want to hear, then negotiate later, once the instrument is in their store.

A few years ago, on a smaller scale, my buddy found a guy with an original 1962 stratocaster, he was the original owner. He hadn't played since the 60's and the guitar was NICE. This guy was not familiar with the vintage guitar market, BUT he got "educated" in a hurry when it came time to sell. My buddy wanted to buy the guitar to flip and make a profit and wanted me to be a partner in the deal. I said OK. The owner said he wanted $10K for it and we agreed. At the time the guitar was worth $17K, so we were hoping for a nice payday. Before we could get to his house, he called and said he changed his mind and wanted $13K. My buddy had a firm offer from a buyer at $17K, so we agreed to the $13K, even though we knew he was jacking us around. Well, guess what? Before we could get over there with the $13K, he called and said the guitar was not for sale...........same type of deal.....

[Willie Poole]

I was playing a show many years ago with my Gibson F-12 converted to an F-5 and a lady came up to me and said her father left her a mandolin that looked just like the one I was playing and would I like to take a look at it and let her know what it was and how much it might be worth, she gave me her address and I went to look at it about a week later, when I got there she told me that Bill Harrell had looked at it and told her it was a classic and worth a lot of money and to take it to a dealer that really knew instruments, she did just that and sold it to the dealer , for how much and what it really was I never did find out, had I been able to go look at it that same might she told me about it I might have had a Loar after that...

I guess a lot of us have missed out on some good deals at one time or another, I have chased down rumors of Gibson mandolins quite a few times but never scored on a good deal...One say maybe...

[Timbofood]

I miss many things!

[Eddie Sheehy]

Well, the stories are still out there anyway...

[MikeEdgerton]

This (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?81016-24-Fern-Loar-on-Antiques-Roadshow) one popped up in 2012. Great story as someone tried to make an insurance claim saying they had that one and it had been stolen. They never owned it and when it came out into the daylight in 2012 it added frosting to that cake.

[JeffD]

A friend of mine from work had a neighbor who had a mandolin he wanted to show me. It was, apparently, "just like the one on the road show" and worth a lot of money.

Turned out to be a homemade plywood mandolin shaped object, painted black, with some Mexican coins glued or somehow affixed to the top.

Yes they are out there, but many shad swimming with the rainbow trout.

[Mandolin Cafe]

Bill Graham wrote an article about one back in 2009. A local builder I've known for a long time had a family friend and they asked if he'd look at and possibly repair a mandolin they had. He said he agreed privately kicking himself because he was pretty sure it'd be a valueless bowlback. He said he saw them drive into his front yard and pull a beat up black rectangular case from the back. Said he almost spit up his coffee, was pretty sure what it was going to be before he opened the case. It was one of the El Dorado Loars pictured here but we're not sure which one, though the family members I've talked to were pretty sure one of their grandfathers was in the photo. I still intend to research this photo more some day.

Guy in the third row, third from left is the original owner of Chris Thile's Loar. His name is Virgil Bisagno, he's holding now Chris' mandolin, and there's a ton of information about him we added in the comments several years back here (http://www.mandolincafe.com/news/publish/mandolins_001436.shtml). I actually went to the El Dorado historical society and found his picture in the yearbook and matched it with a photo Chris shared with us.

The article: http://www.mandolincafe.com/news/publish/mandolins_001016.shtml

http://www.mandolincafe.com/news/uploads/fishersorchestra-enlargedl.jpg

[MikeEdgerton]

I was looking for the one in Kansas and couldn't find the thread. I didn't realize it was that long ago. Thanks to Scott's post I found this one:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?46767-Our-recent-Loar-find-photos

[JeffD]

If there was a television show about vintage instrument detectives who hunted down the provenance and ownership history of vintage instruments currently owned - well that would give me reason to buy a television.

Just so cool.

Probably, like everything else, it takes equal parts perspiration and effort, and total random luck, and ridiculous persistence, to find this kind of stuff out.

If there were a vintage instrument detective agency, I would be sorely tempted.

[T.D.Nydn]

In the photo above,,look at the extended fingerboard on the banjo in the back right,,and in the front left,,look at that lucky kid,what do you think he's playing?....

[Mandolin Cafe]

In the photo above,,look at the extended fingerboard on the banjo in the back right,,and in the front left,,look at that lucky kid,what do you think he's playing?....

All of the instruments are identified in the article linked above. For ease, here's what Joe Spann and a couple of other folks provided:

First row on ground L-R: F5 Loar (possibly a Fern), F2 (seated), A1/2/4 Snakehead
Second row seated L-R: F2, H1, H1, F4, A Snakehead, F2
Third row L-R: F5 Loar, Style 0 guitar, #75316 F5 Loar (Virgil Bisagno), Snakehead A, F2, F2, Model MB-3 Mandolin Banjo, K2 Mandocello, TB-4 Tenor Banjo with aftermarket resonator
Fourth row L-R: Gibson L2/3/4, 1920s style O guitar

[Mandoplumb]

How bout the guitar with the scroll how cool is that?

[William Smith]

Well, the stories are still out there anyway...

Yes they are, in around 2001-2 there was an estate sale less than 50 miles from me where a Loar was discovered in a gun cabinet. sold for 850bucks! I think it was a 23, I'd have to scour the archive to find it but its in there. Just takes someone to be in the right place right time and well thats never me. Maybe I should go garage saleing it is my B-day today. I've had bad or no luck for years so maybe its my day to shine! Not likely:(

[FLATROCK HILL]

Right place, right time or not...Happy Birthday!

[DavidKOS]

So a trading friend of my fathers called him this week and said. "Hey there is a guy that called me that had an F5 he wanted to sell. He wanted 10K so I okay bring it by.

I must say that if 10K is an "okay" deal for a used mandolin, more power to you! (yes I know what used mandolin this is!!!!)

My comment:

If 10,000 dollars is a good deal then I'm WAY over my head in terms of dollar value and collectability per actual sound value.

Anyone pay that much for an Embergher or Vinaccia?

[brunello97]

I must say that if 10K is an "okay" deal for a used mandolin, more power to you! (yes I know what used mandolin this is!!!!)

My comment:

If 10,000 dollars is a good deal then I'm WAY over my head in terms of dollar value and collectability per actual sound value.

Anyone pay that much for an Embergher or Vinaccia?

Not sure if the concepts of "collectability" and "dollar value per sound value" belong in the same thought construct. Two entirely different value structures that folks keep stubbornly trying to link around here as if there is some objective scientific method to evaluate these by.

Does a $5k Embergher really sound 35 times better than my $125 Favilla Bros? The answer is either 'of course not' or 'yes, by my subjective measuring system' or maybe 'who cares?'

I paid the same $125 for my Vinaccia. Others sell for $3000 maybe. Did I get a deal or are others mislead? I think the same three answers apply.

Mick

[MikeEdgerton]

How bout the guitar with the scroll how cool is that?

Style O (https://www.vintageguitar.com/2013/gibson-style-o/)

[brunello97]

Style O (https://www.vintageguitar.com/2013/gibson-style-o/)

Muy, muy cool, from my perspective. Made my evening, Mike.

Mick

[Petrus]

http://www.mandolincafe.com/news/uploads/fishersorchestra-enlargedl.jpg

That one guy in the back row on the far right just had to be different.

"But you clearly indicated in the telegram that it was to be a mandolin and banjo group photograph!"

"By no means, only mandolins, you cad! But we already paid the photographer his three dollars so you might as well participate. But stand in the back row so you don't frighten the ladies!"

"And there's a fellow with one of those new banjo-mandolin contraptions."

"We do not speak of the banjo-mandolin in polite company."

[Jim Garber]

I must say that if 10K is an "okay" deal for a used mandolin, more power to you! (yes I know what used mandolin this is!!!!)

My comment:

If 10,000 dollars is a good deal then I'm WAY over my head in terms of dollar value and collectability per actual sound value.

Anyone pay that much for an Embergher or Vinaccia?

A friend of mine (through my help) actually purchased an exquisite 5bis a few years back for about that price and frankly, it is one of the very best I have heard or played. He was a pro violinist so that price did not faze him much. Vinaccias that go for that price are usually the early ones museum pieces with historical value and also likely presentation models.

[f5loar]

You can pretty much do the math that there are no more original owners holding onto them. Not too many 110 year olds holding onto their precious Gibson F5 their Daddy bought them new in 1922 when they reached their 16th birthday. You could have a younger widow of an original owner that hasn't told anyone. They are less likely to clean out the attic then the children of those original owners.

[Jeff Mando]

You can pretty much do the math that there are no more original owners holding onto them. Not too many 110 year olds holding onto their precious Gibson F5 their Daddy bought them new in 1922 when they reached their 16th birthday. You could have a younger widow of an original owner that hasn't told anyone. They are less likely to clean out the attic then the children of those original owners.

Great summary and analysis! Makes sense. My "strategy" which has yet to produce a Loar at a cheap price, is to contact people who owned them back in the day, pictured on record covers, publicity photos, etc., and see if they are still alive and still have the Loar or maybe their children might -- hopefully at yesterday's prices.......hey, a guy can dream, can't he?????? :cool:

[Timbofood]

I know there is a little old lady here in Kalamazoo that has a matched set just waiting for me to carry her grocery bags or open a door for her.
Hey, if we are dreaming, dream big!

[Jack Roberts]

I know there is a little old lady here in Kalamazoo that has a matched set just waiting for me to carry her grocery bags or open a door for her.
Hey, if we are dreaming, dream big!
I have a friend (from Michigan, no less) who used to mow the lawn and carry groceries for the little old lady down the street. She had no family. When she died, she left him her house! No mandolins in any of the closets, however.

[Timbofood]

The moral of the story is still...
Be nice, you never know what you may inherit.

[Charles Johnson]

Great summary and analysis! Makes sense. My "strategy" which has yet to produce a Loar at a cheap price, is to contact people who owned them back in the day, pictured on record covers, publicity photos, etc., and see if they are still alive and still have the Loar or maybe their children might -- hopefully at yesterday's prices.......hey, a guy can dream, can't he?????? :cool:

I know dealers that have been doing that for 30 years, especially with electric guitars.

[Jeff Mando]

I know dealers that have been doing that for 30 years, especially with electric guitars.

When I lived in Memphis (late 80's), I got to see a lot of the "old blues guys" who were still gigging -- I asked them if they still had their old Strat, Les Paul, etc., pictured on their record covers --"nope, pawned it and lost it" was the universal reply. Most of them were playing newer (at the time) Peavey's and to my surprise -- sounded great! :)

[Scott Tichenor]

Still planning a return research trip back to El Dorado to find out more about this orchestra. Its been several years. I've looked at hundreds, maybe thousands of old mandolin orchestra pictures but this one has always haunted me, and now that I discovered the name of the original owner of Thile's mandolin it's time I went back and picked up some more information. There's a member on the forum that is pretty sure his Loar came from this same orchestra. It'd be fun if I could find that owner's name. Fisher, who the orchestra is named for and who I've always believed is the adult in the front row (though I can't yet prove) with the two children graduated from a high school not far from where I grew up (Joe Spann helped me determine this). Also determined the two kids in the front row and the one lady (90% sure she's Bisagno's wife) behind them I can tag. All of those schools have the graduation pictures of seniors back as far as late 1800s and I know within a year or two of when he would have graduated so should be able to tag him. The town newspaper in El Dorado is said to be on some kind of microfiche system so a day or two of sleuthing for old mandolin owners sounds like a good time now that my daughter is back in college. I did find the address of Fisher's residence but it's now an empty lot, though a big one, so have to wonder if the house in the picture was his.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/news/uploads/fishersorchestra-enlargedl.jpg