Ebay listing

[jim simpson]

Gibson Guitar, JAN.18-21, VGC+ Item number: 7323376201

I guess the fact that this mandolin is listed as a guitar might make one suspicious. I hope I'm not being discriminating by noticing zero feedback.

[arbarnhart]

The eBay listing (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7323376201) says it is a consignment item, so it may well be someone who doesn't know exactly what they have and Gibson is a guitar company. The zero feedback doesn't worry me as much as the lack of a good frontal shot. The partial frontal does show the finish is cracking near the hole. The seller does take PayPal so you can get protection on a bid. It is an F body but appears not to have F holes. Not sure of the model exactly.

[Jim Garber]

Well.... there might be a very good reason that the seller does not show full frontals... they might show the real source of the photos...

Tak a look in our own archive here (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?740). Look familiar? Does this say SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM to you? Even the text is a near-complete ripoff. These guys have no shame!

That and the fact that the bidder ids are hidden.

Jim

[Jim Garber]

I just wrote to the seller asking him if I can come take a look at it. I expect I will hear that the "guitar" is located in Romania or Thailand or something.

Jim

[billkilpatrick]

well spotted jim! obviously a rip-off. what happens now with ebay; shouldn't those who bid be warned off?

[TonyP]

Good eye indeed! There is no mistaking that scarring on the peghead either. Scam is to put it lightly....

[Paul Hostetter]

Why could this not be something someone bought from Elderly and then simply put up on eBay for resale? It's obviously the Elderly instrument, and they have the date wrong, but since when does instrument ownership indicate intelligence or attention to such detail?

[glauber]

Is there ever a "private listing" auction that's legit? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[grandmainger]

Is there ever a "private listing" auction that's legit? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Actually yes... It's mainly used to conceal the ID of the people who purchase items that may be of an embarrassing nature... Supplements, aids, clothes from the less mainstream shops http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif etc...

[Jim Garber]

Why could this not be something someone bought from Elderly and then simply put up on eBay for resale? It's obviously the Elderly instrument, and they have the date wrong, but since when does instrument ownership indicate intelligence or attention to such detail?
Paul:
Anything is possible, of course. I did not report this as suspicious to eBay for 2 reasons: (one) I am not 100% sure and (two) eBay makes it pretty hard to even find out where and how to complain.

I did email Stan at Elderly to let him know and he might have some further info or take further action.

There are a number of things. This is the only thing this person is selling. Also he/she made it very obvious to not use any photos that showed the Elderly sign. She/he has zero feedback and has hidden the identity of the bidders to prevent anyone from warning them.

I did email the seller to see if I can come over and take a look at it. I acrtually do live not too far but i would have done that anyway. I also asked for a photo the the instrument that would not have been in the archive set. Let us see if this person answers. My experience is that he/she might offer me some lowball deal and/or would explain that the instrument is actuallty out of the country.

Yes, I give the seller the benefit of the doubt, but if this person wa upfront and bought it from Elderly I would think that they would include all pics and might even mention that fact.

Jim

[Jim Garber]

I just heard from Stan at Elderly who says:

We shipped that mandolin to England a few months ago, by the way.

Caveat Emptor

Jim

[Paul Hostetter]

I guess I'm fundamentally a little less suspicious. That this is the only thing this person is selling or has ever sold on eBay just says to me that, well, it's just that. It could well be that it’s the only thing they ever bought for that much money and they need to get out from under it for some reason. Elderly obviously wouldn't buy it back for full price. A lot of people think eBay is the best way to get the max price for something, especially if you put on some airs.

The lack of feedback just means they never listed anything on eBay before. BFD.

You may have a point about their rationale for hiding the ID of bidders.

I am also not surprised they simply pillaged the Elderly photos and cropped out the references. While it's pretty shabby, a lot of folks lack a digital camera, or the will to learn to use one. And as you can see on eBay all the time, even a lot of people who have them, including the outfits that take their miserably dark and fuzzy images and then post them for them, haven't the slightest idea how to make a decent image anyway.

The reason Stan has all that Elderly ID in his photos is to keep people from stealing the images. You notice that the only Elderly images missing are the ones with the big white Elderly sign in them. This guy tried to circumvent that, and at first I thought he did it more out of lameness than raw deviousness, but the outfit that posted the photos Photoshopped the "© Elderly Instruments" watermark out of the lower left corner and replaced it with their little camera logo:

http://www.lutherie.net/F-4.90U-3798_details.jpg

That may well be grounds for legal action, and it's why I reported them. Mr. Stupid certainly wouldn't/couldn't have acknowledged his having gotten it from Elderly. What if someone contacted Elderly to find out what he paid for it?

Let us know if you ever hear back from the seller about going over and trying the instrument out personally. To me this reeks less of "scam scam scam" than of "feckless feckless feckless." And I hope eBay takes him right out. Whatta dolt.

On the "up" side, I was interested to see a real late F-4 that had the simpler one-piece neck joint with the board laying on the top. I know of an A-2 from this same era, probably a little later actually, that also has that "other" kind of neck joint. I think it's a fascinating detail. The A-2 is an amazing mandolin.

[manjitsu]

For kicks, I just sent an email to the seller of this one as well. I live about ten miles from the listed location of Middletown, CT.

Amazing the amount of online scamming going on these days.

-Chris Rorrer

[billkilpatrick]

ham operators on short wave radio used to do this - still do for all i know - help each other out with an alternative network of support and info. it's good to know who's wearing the white hats though.

- bill

[glauber]

Is there ever a "private listing" auction that's legit? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Actually yes... It's mainly used to conceal the ID of the people who purchase items that may be of an embarrassing nature... Supplements, aids, clothes from the less mainstream shops http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif etc...
And banjos?

[Jim Garber]

Let us know if you ever hear back from the seller about going over and trying the instrument out personally. To me this reeks less of "scam scam scam" than of "feckless feckless feckless." #And I hope eBay takes him right out. Whatta dolt.
Paul, you do have a positive faith in humanity. I have seen too many of these scams to believe that the seller is just incompetent. My favorite alternate scam is the seller who contacts me after I put a bid on a vintage instrument and tells me that he has one just like it "new in the box" and I can have it for one third the price of the one on eBay. Of course,all i have to do is to wire more than the amount via Western Union in Bucharest and he will gladly send me the difference back. He will even pay for shipping. Right!

BTW what makes you think that the photo hosting service would Photoshop out the Elderly copyright. More likely it is the seller. I think those services just work automatically with uploads. I can't imagine that the photo hoster even provides that service.

Jim

[TommyK]

ON RH side of page in blue box:

deasokayaopaina ( 0 ) #
#Feedback Score: 0 feedback reviews
Member since May-12-05 in United Kingdom

LH side of page next to item:

Item location: #[Middletown, CT United States

Need I say more?
Okay, I will. #I'd lay odds his Western Union store is in Chechnya!

[Paul Hostetter]

ON RH side of page in blue box:
deasokayaopaina ( 0 )
Feedback Score: 0 feedback reviews
Member since May-12-05 in United Kingdom

LH side of page next to item:
Item location: [Middletown, CT United States

Need I say more?
Stan at Elderly said he shipped the mandolin recently to the UK. The fact that it's back on US soil to be resold isn't terribly remarkable in my book. In any event, the thing sold yesterday to someone for $1182, which was probably less than they'd just paid Elderly for it. Keep your eye on the feedback page if you want your darkest suspicions confirmed.

[Paul Hostetter]

ON RH side of page in blue box:
deasokayaopaina ( 0 )
Feedback Score: 0 feedback reviews
Member since May-12-05 in United Kingdom

LH side of page next to item:
Item location: [Middletown, CT United States

Need I say more?
Stan at Elderly said he shipped the mandolin recently to the UK. The fact that it's back on US soil (or alleged to be so) to be resold isn't terribly remarkable in my book.

In any event, the thing sold yesterday to someone for $1182, which was probably less than they'd just paid Elderly for it. Keep your eye on the feedback page if you want your darkest suspicions confirmed.