1974 Martin Mandolin?

[Bill Kammerzell]

Don't see any availability for truss rod adjustment. Do they have a non-adjustable rod in the neck?

[MikeEdgerton]

Martin didn't start using adjustable truss rods in their guitars until 1985 if I recall. I'm going to hazard a guess that they never installed an adjustable truss rod in a mandolin.

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Data/TrussRods/trussrods1.html

[Bill Kammerzell]

Martin didn't start using adjustable truss rods in their guitars until 1985 if I recall. I'm going to hazard a guess that they never installed an adjustable truss rod in a mandolin.

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Data/TrussRods/trussrods1.html

This definitely does not have an adjustable truss rod. I was wondering if, like some mandolin builders they installed a non adjustable rod for added strength. I know Martin installed some type of steel rod or tube in some of their guitars for strength. I should say, I have READ that. Don't know it to be fact. Thanks.

[Bill Kammerzell]

Martin didn't start using adjustable truss rods in their guitars until 1985 if I recall. I'm going to hazard a guess that they never installed an adjustable truss rod in a mandolin.

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Data/TrussRods/trussrods1.html

Thank you for the link. That is exactly what I was referring to. Those non adjustable reinforcing rods.

Everything about this Martin looks okay. Neck relief, intonation, action. Really clean with the original case. I would own it right now except the pawnbroker has it priced like the deed to a gold mine.

[MikeEdgerton]

The only way you'll ever get a case that fits these things is if you get it with the original case. They are small.

[Bill Kammerzell]

The only way you'll ever get a case that fits these things is if you get it with the original case. They are small.

Yes it is. Small. I have a quite young Grand-daughter that likes tinkering with my mandolins, and the Weber looks like a Mandocello when she holds it. She's really shown an interest, and this would make a nice starter mandolin for her. She's 8.
It would also be saleable if she decides not to play at a later date. If I can get it at a reasonable price. My wife informed me the place is actually an antique dealer, and not a pawn shop. :) I'll need to tell the owner that a 1974 Martin mandolin probably doesn't qualify as an antique. ;)

[CES]

Sent you a pm, as I just bought one (not trying to sell, mine's a keeper, at least until MAS rears its head again)...

[pops1]

I got an old Supertone that is very similar to the Martin, I have had both, and was only a couple hundred needing a little work. Had it a few years now, but have it loaned out at the moment.

[Bill Kammerzell]

Sent you a pm, as I just bought one (not trying to sell, mine's a keeper, at least until MAS rears its head again)...

I answered that one! Thank you!

[bbcee]

+1 on the Supertones, really nice to play and great tone.

They go under a lot of names - mine was a Washington.

[Shelagh Moore]

I had a 1974 Martin A for a good few years. It was a nice little sweet-sounding mandolin and I kind of regret selling it.

[multidon]

Martin never put any type of reinforcement in their mandolin necks. No square tube, no T bar, nothing. They should be strung lightly.

While their guitars went through many developments and improvements (arguably) through the years, the style A mandolin with the flat back and canted top remained substantially unchanged in design from its introduction in 1914 until it was discontinued in 1993. Pretty amazing run really. Would love to find a minty 70's 80's or 90's one of those with case. About the only thing that could get my MAS going again.

Retail on a 1974 with case should be around 700 to 800 dollars depending on condition. Show the pawnbroker/antique dealer/whatever some pricing guides. Folks in this type of business are an unusual sort. The nature of these businesses requires them to be experts at everything but of course that's impossible. When it comes to acoustic instruments, they train themselves to look out for anything that says "Gibson" or "Martin". They think they hit the lottery when they see those names, which accounts for the often unrealistic pricing.

Just to put a finer point on it, I once donated a relatively low value guitar to the Salvation Army. Even the guy charged with taking in donations knew enough, when he saw the case, to ask me "Is that a Martin?". Obviously he had been trained to be on the lookout.

[Bill Kammerzell]

Martin never put any type of reinforcement in their mandolin necks. No square tube, no T bar, nothing. They should be strung lightly.

While their guitars went through many developments and improvements (arguably) through the years, the style A mandolin with the flat back and canted top remained substantially unchanged in design from its introduction in 1914 until it was discontinued in 1993. Pretty amazing run really. Would love to find a minty 70's 80's or 90's one of those with case. About the only thing that could get my MAS going again.

Retail on a 1974 with case should be around 700 to 800 dollars depending on condition. Show the pawnbroker/antique dealer/whatever some pricing guides. Folks in this type of business are an unusual sort. The nature of these businesses requires them to be experts at everything but of course that's impossible. When it comes to acoustic instruments, they train themselves to look out for anything that says "Gibson" or "Martin". They think they hit the lottery when they see those names, which accounts for the often unrealistic pricing.

Just to put a finer point on it, I once donated a relatively low value guitar to the Salvation Army. Even the guy charged with taking in donations knew enough, when he saw the case, to ask me "Is that a Martin?". Obviously he had been trained to be on the lookout.



Thanks Don. Of course they can't be experts. I agree. This is an "antique" dealer and I find them harder to work with, then a pawn merchant. Whereas a pawn dealer can often be influenced by a short stack of unmarked bills, the average antique dealer has more than one dealer renting in their shop, quite frequently, or might be doing a consignment sale.
And you are correct to say that both "Gibson" and "Martin" get visions of Vegas jackpots going through their heads. I'm trying to go a bit lower on this deal, than 7-800. Who knows though. Its average condition, with a original, but worn case. Tunes up nice though, and I've checked the neck relief and the intonation. They want to sell it, I insist on checking that out. I don't think its going anywhere at the current price.
I went through West VA recently and a dealer there thought they had a gold mine because they had a "Kentucky" mandolin. :)) Had it priced at $1200.00 for a KM 700.

[multidon]

That price I gave of 7-800 would be for excellent condition. "Average" condition should bring that down by a considerable margin.

[pops1]

There is a Supertone on Reverb @ $250 as I type this.

[Bill Kammerzell]

That price I gave of 7-800 would be for excellent condition. "Average" condition should bring that down by a considerable margin.

Yes. I was thinking around 450-500 for this one.

[MikeEdgerton]

Style A Martin mandolins in decent shape have been $400.00 to $500.00 instruments for years. Style B or Koa causes an increase. Folks list them for more on eBay all the time. That doesn't mean they sell for that.

Recent sales at eBay. Look at the amounts listed in green. Those sold.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=martin+mandolin&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&LH_Sold=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=08618&_sargn=-1%26saslc%3D1&_salic=1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&LH_Complete=1

[Bill Kammerzell]

Style A Martin mandolins in decent shape have been $400.00 to $500.00 instruments for years. Style B or Koa causes an increase. Folks list them for more on eBay all the time. That doesn't mean they sell for that.

Recent sales at eBay. Look at the amounts listed in green. Those sold.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=martin+mandolin&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&LH_Sold=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=08618&_sargn=-1%26saslc%3D1&_salic=1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&LH_Complete=1

And that is exactly what they are worth, regardless of asking price.... What a buyer is willing to pay.

[Bill Kammerzell]

Style A Martin mandolins in decent shape have been $400.00 to $500.00 instruments for years. Style B or Koa causes an increase. Folks list them for more on eBay all the time. That doesn't mean they sell for that.

Recent sales at eBay. Look at the amounts listed in green. Those sold.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=martin+mandolin&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&LH_Sold=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=08618&_sargn=-1%26saslc%3D1&_salic=1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&LH_Complete=1

Pretty consistent with Reverb prices. You will get the occasional marginal overpay.

https://reverb.com/price-guide/guide/12264

[multidon]

Going by the Vintage Guitar Guide, 2014 edition (latest I have), they divide the Style A into 3 eras. In excellent condition they list retail value as follows:

1914-1949: $775-925
1950-1969: $750-925
1970-1995: $650-800

Admittedly, this is two year old information. I don't buy this book every single year. Maybe the bottom has dropped out of this particular market. But these are not intended to be eBay prices. This is what you would expect to pay for an excellent example, close to mint with no issues, in a store or from a vintage instrument dealer where a luthier has gone over it and the store or dealer offers some sort of warranty. This is quite a different situation from EBay.

[MikeEdgerton]

You'll always find someone that will pay more for a variety of reasons. I have a few instruments I paid way too much for because I had the same model in high school and just had to have one for old times sake. I consider those mistakes by the way :cool:

These have stayed pretty constant since 2000 or so when I started buying and selling them. They are delightful little instruments with a very sweet voice and they don't seem to change a whole lot from the early models to the late models.

[multidon]

Carter's has a 1934 Style A right now listed on their Web site for $850. Consistent with what I found in my Guide. I think that dealing with someone like Carter's or a similar dealer with a good reputation is worth paying a premium price over what one might spend for a similar item on eBay. Simply because eBay is a crap shoot. You might end up with a great instrument at a bargain price, but you could also be buying undisclosed hidden faults, whereas a reputable dealer will go over it for you, disclose everything that needs to be disclosed, and back it up with their reputation.

[Bill Kammerzell]

Going by the Vintage Guitar Guide, 2014 edition (latest I have), they divide the Style A into 3 eras. In excellent condition they list retail value as follows:

1914-1949: $775-925
1950-1969: $750-925
1970-1995: $650-800

Admittedly, this is two year old information. I don't buy this book every single year. Maybe the bottom has dropped out of this particular market. But these are not intended to be eBay prices. This is what you would expect to pay for an excellent example, close to mint with no issues, in a store or from a vintage instrument dealer where a luthier has gone over it and the store or dealer offers some sort of warranty. This is quite a different situation from EBay.

I use this from time to time. Blue Book of Mandolin Values. Has been somewhat accurate. Subscribed this January. This is for A model Martin broken down by years and condition.

Excellent Average
1914-1919 $750 - 950 $450 - 575
1920-1939 $800 - 1,000 $475 - 600
1940-1954 $725 - 900 $450 - 550
1955-1969 $675 - 850 $400 - 500
1970-1995 $650 - 800 $375 - 475

Didn't quite come out like I wanted it to.

[Bill Kammerzell]

[QUOTE=MikeEdgerton;1517883]You'll always find someone that will pay more for a variety of reasons. I have a few instruments I paid way too much for because I had the same model in high school and just had to have one for old times sake. I consider those mistakes by the way :cool:


I have done that! Regrettable. Then it doesn't sound the way it did in high school.:confused:

[multidon]

The excellent condition values seem to be more or less in line with my reference work, but your Blue Book is actually more useful I think since mine does not address anything else other than excellent. You are much more likely to find average condition than excellent on these.

[Bill Kammerzell]

The excellent condition values seem to be more or less in line with my reference work, but your Blue Book is actually more useful I think since mine does not address anything else other than excellent. You are much more likely to find average condition than excellent on these.

I think it ran me a very reasonable $9.99 a year for just a mandolin blue book. Renewable yearly. It appears to be a work in progress on some of the manufacturers. More informative on the bigger name builders.

[brunello97]

I replaced the fretboards on a couple '00 era Martin bowlbacks. They both had an inset metal (steel?) reinforcing "bar" set into the neck. Certainly not adjustable and not something one could describe as a "truss rod".

Don't know if this practice carried on into the flatback or archtop models but it sounds like others have checked and found them lacking. I have had a '20s era style B and (still have) an early '50s A but have not had reason to look under the hood, so to speak. The necks have been fine.

I dig Martin mandolins.

Mick

[multidon]

Just to be clear, and I should have stated this upfront. When I made my earlier post I was not acting as any sort of expert. I was repeating what I have been told in the past, and what I have read online. It is my belief that Martin Style A mandolins have no neck reinforcement, but I could be wrong. It is funny the older bowlbacks apparently did.

If there is steel in there a magnet should tell. Ebony rod like the early guitar? Who knows? The necks are pretty chunky though and I still think there is nothing in there unless someone proves me wrong.

Ironically, I used to have a Backpacker model mandolin, which had a VERY chunky neck AND an adjustable truss rod, accessed through the sound hole, using a very weird Allen wrench, 2.5 mm if memory serves.

[MikeEdgerton]

OK, the Bluebooks are always higher priced, and rarely reflect the actual market. Go to that link on eBay of sold Martin mandolins. I know what they are listed at, I know that George Gruhn has them sometimes at high prices, the actual market is where I said it based on what people are paying for them. It's there in green and white. The first page has three or four. Can George sell one for the higher price? Maybe. Can you buy them all day long at the price I listed. Certainly. So what is the value based on? I would base the value on what they actually sell for.

[MikeEdgerton]

I'll even make it easy. Here they are. One Koa exceeded 600.00 and one outlier was less than 200.00.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1974-CF-Martin-Co-Style-A-Mandolin-with-case-NO-RESERVE-/232060468647?hash=item3607e1bda7:g:CAwAAOSwV0RXv5f U

Koa!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ONE-DAY-VTG-1924-Koa-Martin-AK-A-K-Mandolin-Flat-Back-All-Original-SS-12068-/131922473491?hash=item1eb7313213:g:FdUAAOSwgmJXw2f E


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-CF-Martin-Mandolin-/122101043551?hash=item1c6dca115f:g:BmIAAOSwHoFXv7p t


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Martin-Type-Style-A-Mandolin-8-Strings-/282136580538?hash=item41b0a691ba:g:SPoAAOSwzJ5XYL1 x


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-C-F-Martin-A-Style-Mandolin-w-Price-Tag-8-Strings-24449-NO-RESERVE-w-Case-/282108431422?hash=item41aef90c3e:g:mvoAAOSw0fhXkQ1 P


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1916-Martin-Style-A-Mandolin-with-Hard-Shell-Case-/131886158073?hash=item1eb50710f9:g:vs8AAOSwdzVXkq4 q

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-CF-Martin-Mandolin-Style-A-Circa-1920-/122029858899?hash=item1c698be053:g:LTEAAOSwgY9Xcrx t

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vtg-1950s-Martin-Mandolin-Good-Condition-/331892660340?hash=item4d46581874:g:wlIAAOSwGIRXcTP m

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Martin-Mandolin-/152144048823?hash=item236c7df2b7:g:VJkAAOSwjXRXZXH R

[multidon]

Ok, Mike, I do see what you are saying about market value. But just to be clear, are you saying that buying from a respected dealer like Gruhn or Carter, where the instrument has been gone over for defects, set up, and guaranteed to be as advertised, carries no value? Let's say you have a choice of two otherwise identical Martin A's, one on eBay for 500 with a return policy but no other warranty ("I'm no expert so look at the pictures carefully and ask lots of questions, very common) and the other at Carter's , Elderly, or Gruen's for 850, (which can probably be bargained down to 800 if you're a good negotiator). Are you saying then that the reputable dealer should only charge 500? Because that's the "market"? In spite of the fact that the dealer has provided services to insure you are purchasing a quality instrument, and the eBay seller has done absolutely nothing of the sort except say "caveat emptor"?

Again, as I already stated, price books are meant to reflect retail prices you would expect to pay a dealer or store with a good reputation. And the the prices I see in both the Vintage Guitar Guide and the Blue Book seem essentially correct to me. To compare that sort of purchase to buying a similar instrument on eBay, Craigslist, etc. is not comparing like to like.

Some people like saving money by trying to score on sites like that. But it is a crap shoot. Sometimes some people get lucky. But there is something to be said for the security of buying from Elderly, Gruen's, Carter, Mandolin World Headquarters, Gryphon, etc, etc, and paying extra for the security that comes from an expert examining it, evaluating it, setting it up, and giving you a warranty that what you are buying will function problem free. Just my opinion.

[MikeEdgerton]

If you tell somebody they have a mandolin that is worth 800.00 that they can't sell for more than 500.00 does that make sense? If you feel comfortable buying a mandolin that hasn't hung in a shop then I'm pretty sure you'll want to pay the going price for them, not the retail price being charged by a company that has to pay for their overhead. I'm about 50/50 on all of the instruments I own. I've got instruments I bought from Mandolin Bros, Elderly, Janet Davis Music and several local shops. I bought them because they were the instruments I wanted at the time. I also have instruments I bought off eBay, off local ads and off other people. You need to go with your comfort level. With that said, in my mind passing a vintage instrument in decent shape through a shop isn't magic. The musical instrument Bluebooks are notoriously high priced for a reason. If you're going to buy on the vintage market you might want to look at the real time sales prices available to you. They better reflect what you can sell for and buy for.

[multidon]

Does anybody know why you never ever see any examples of these for sale from the 80's or 90's? The most recent I ever see is from the 70's. I would love to find a minty 80's or 90's one with case for sale sometime. My theory being that new equals fewer potential issues. The only relatively modern example I've ever seen is that one that was on our classifieds for months and months with no takers, the special order anniversary one that ended up at Carter's for 7500. Too blingy, too expensive, and not my style. The the books say they made them and listed them in catalogs as available during those decades, yet they never come up for sale. Even the 70's are kind of rare. The common ones seem to be from the 20's and 30's.

If I couldn't find one more recent, I guess it would be kind of cool to find a minty 1956 one (birth year). I never had a birth year instrument before. But buying an older one makes me nervous, knowing that these, just like older Martin guitars, are prone to cracked tops, especially around the pick guard.

[MikeEdgerton]

I have been told that they stopped building them in the 70's. For whatever reason 1974 is the date in my head. In the early 2000's I was in Nazareth and mentioned that I'd made a pickguard for a 1921 model. The woman working in the old factory building said "hang on" and dove into a wooden crate and came up with a stack of about 10 pickguards for the Style A mandolins. I still have a few. I believe that by 1970 they were a custom order and not regular production as well.

[MikeEdgerton]

Looking at Martin's serial numbers I see mandolin serial numbers going into the 2000's. The question I would have is what models were really being produced? The information I have on the A's comes from sources that I've had for many years. If anyone can pop up a Style A with a later serial number I would stand corrected. Here (https://www.martinguitar.com/about/martin-story/serial-number-lookup/) is the serial number page from Martin's own site. I'd love to know the production numbers for styles. The mandolin serial numbers are lower on this page.

It looks like they co-mingled numbers with guitars. I also don't know if that includes their other brands sold serial number wise.

[MikeEdgerton]

Mike Holmes has serials listed up 1999 so I'm going to guess they could have gone longer than that. Mike's listing on mugwumps.com actually gives a pretty good idea about why the later years might not be showing up for sale. The production numbers for mandolins is really low when you look year to year. Some years were apparently 0.

http://www.mugwumps.com/cfm_date.html

1975.............25895
1976.............26045 1977.............26101 1978..............None
1979.............26112 1980.............26156 1981.............26215
1982.............26225 1983.............26247 1984.............26254
1985.............26263 1986.............26273 1987.............26279
1988.............26281 1989.............26283 1990.............26291

[Bill Kammerzell]

Does anybody know why you never ever see any examples of these for sale from the 80's or 90's? The most recent I ever see is from the 70's. I would love to find a minty 80's or 90's one with case for sale sometime. My theory being that new equals fewer potential issues. The only relatively modern example I've ever seen is that one that was on our classifieds for months and months with no takers, the special order anniversary one that ended up at Carter's for 7500. Too blingy, too expensive, and not my style. The the books say they made them and listed them in catalogs as available during those decades, yet they never come up for sale. Even the 70's are kind of rare. The common ones seem to be from the 20's and 30's.

If I couldn't find one more recent, I guess it would be kind of cool to find a minty 1956 one (birth year). I never had a birth year instrument before. But buying an older one makes me nervous, knowing that these, just like older Martin guitars, are prone to cracked tops, especially around the pick guard.

From both the Martin website and Mugwamps, looking at serial numbers, it doesn't look like they built more than 400 mandolins total in the 15 years from 1975 to 1990. There's a limited number built after the 1970's. Martin website also says after 1994 Mandolins were a custom order. Here's a link to Martin.
Mandolins are at lower end of page. So is custom order statement.

https://www.martinguitar.com/about/martin-story/serial-number-lookup/

[MikeEdgerton]

I'm now on a quest to find an 80's-90's A style. I would also guess that anybody interested in owning a Martin A style in the 80's and 90's was a dedicated player that might still be playing it. Eventually one has to hit one of the auction sites.