Humidify mandolins hanging on the walls

[josephryanevans]

Hey folks,
I've always tried to humidify my high quality instruments, guitars and mandolins. They've almost exclusively lived in the cases. But now I'd like to hang them in the walls for space and accessibility. I'm concerned about keeping them properly humid there.

I live in Wyoming, one of the dryer climates in America. So I think it's a worthwhile concern.

Would instrument humidifiers ( the sponge in the tube kind) still do any good? Or do I need to consider a room humidifier?

Thanks,
Joe

[allenhopkins]

In an arid desert-like environment, a humidifier that fits inside the instrument (Dampit, e.g.) will be dry inside a day. If you're into filling up every Dampit every day, might be OK, but I doubt it. Plus, if you're going to refill a Dampit that frequently, you'd want to use distilled water, since tap-water minerals will accumulate in the humidifier pretty quickly and reduce its ability to absorb.

Room humidifier is a better idea, but you'd need one with quite a bit of "horsepower." Better solution might be to build or purchase a display case which you could humidify separately. This may address your space concerns, not your accessibility needs though.

I'm an apostle of keeping instruments cased, both for humidity control and for damage avoidance. But there are strategies that can provide an acceptable room environment. Should be a room you generally keep closed, in the interior of the dwelling so surrounding rooms act as barriers to the overall dryness. Evaluate what type of climate control systems -- heating and cooling -- you use, and definitely get a reliable hygrometer to monitor humidity.

Still, I recommend keeping 'em cased, since I think "accessibility" is a bit of a red herring: how long does it take to open a case and take a mandolin out? Space is another thing -- though you'll still need space to keep the cases, with the instruments hung up on walls.

Just be careful; I've seen the tops of expensive guitars develop splits in a single night of exposure to dry furnace heat. Risking serious damage to achieve modest gains in accessibility and space utilization, may not be a trade-off you want to make.

[Oliver A.]

I won't get into the merits of keeping your instruments in or out of a case except to say that I think it's more of a personal preference as there are pros and cons to both arrangements. If you'd like to keep your instruments out of the case, The best thing you could do first is to get an accurate hygrometer. This is not easy for the average bloke. I use a sling psychrometer (a.k.a. wet/dry bulb thermometer) to calibrate my analog hygrometers. Sling psychrometers are the most reliable and accurate method for measuring relative humidity. The vast majority of hygrometers that I have seen on the market, are in need of calibration. If your hygrometer is not reading accurately, you may have the best intentions and diligence and actually be putting your instruments at risk. In my area, there is a music store called The Twelfth Fret that will calibrate, for free, any hygrometer that you bring in. This is a great service and maybe you can find a similar store or luthier who will do the same for you.

Room size humidifiers of the old style evaporative type will easily do a room of up to 20' X 20' IF the room is reasonably separated from the rest of the house. (not open concept) You want to keep the humidity at 45 t0 55% ideally so that isn't too much for a humidifier to handle.

Here is a chart that I compiled that shows the equilibrium moisture content of spruce vs relative humidity. It also shows the actual expansion/contraction of spruce in millimeters as the humidity moves away from the 7% moisture content that the instrument should have been built at.

http://i.imgur.com/WXyiyHB.jpg

BTW, on my website, on the blog page, there is a PDF version of this chart. I think anyone with a mandolin should print it out and keep it with their mandolin.

[MikeEdgerton]

My instruments live in their cases because it's easier for me to control their environments that way and I've destroyed two instruments by hanging them in my living room. I couldn't control the humidity well enough in my house. Others have no problem humidifying rooms and houses. It is a personal issue. Just understand, you're not simply humidifying the instrument you're going to need to humidify the room(s) they are in. Simply putting a humidifier like a dampit in the sound hole isn't going to do it. If someone leaves the door to the room open or opens a window the environment will change.

[nickster60]

Humidity is a challenge up here. I think it is best to keep the instruments in their cases. My instruments moved from Florida and I have kept them in the cases with a humidity source and they have been fine. I have also toyed with a whole room humidifier for my instrument room. It has been drier than a bone here but that is summer in the high desert. Oh and of course the fires don't help either.

Bruce Weber built tons of mandolins in our neck of the woods without issues.

[Tobin]

I'm with Mr. Hopkins on this one. Cases aren't just for traveling. They keep your instrument safe from household bumps and dings, they keep the dust off of them, and they control the environment better. If Wyoming has dry air, you'll need to invest in a room humidifier. Keeping it maintained, filled with water, and free of scale and gunk, is a lot more hassle than just putting the instruments in their cases where they belong. And even with a room humidifier, you can't guarantee a stable environment.

We've had this discussion before on this forum, and I do understand the desire to have one's instrument out on display and able to be grabbed on a whim. But there are inherent risks that come with it, depending on your environment. No one else here can guarantee that you'll be OK. It just depends on the instrument and the environment. Why take the risk? Just to avoid the 5-second "hassle" of opening a case? I dunno, man. Personally, I kind of enjoy the moment when I take an instrument out of its case for its daily session. And I enjoy tucking it away when I'm done, like putting a child to bed where it can sleep safely and snugly.

[Billy Packard]

Ha! I am blissfully ignorant of all the above info/solutions regarding humidity. There is very little change year-round where I live.

I have a different issue that has me keeping my lovelies in their stout cases. I live in EARTHQUAKE country! You never know if or when...and here in Santa Cruz, SF Bay area, it has been way past 25 years since the last BIG one struck. I even strategize where I put them when they are out, like---will the lamp fall on it, etc.

I would love to have them out to see but they are only safe in their cases. I thought of hanging them on the wall with locking hangers but it just isn't worth it. The last big quake tossed ALL of the dishes and glasses, (as well as everything else) and they all broke but my instruments were all safe.

Billy

billypackardmandolin.com

[Mandobart]

I live in eastern Washington State. It is lower elevation than Wyoming but quite dry in the summer. We can go over 60 days between rains. Native flora is sagebrush, rabbit brush and tumbleweed. To nickster Richland WA is nearly a clone of IF. It just doesn't get as cold here in the winter - rarely drops below 0 F.

I have a 10 by 10 bedroom that I use for my music room. Many instruments hanging on two inside walls. A small humidifier (https://www.walmart.com/ip/21011464?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227016781674&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=t&wl3=40753916792&wl4=pla-78605251232&wl5=9033824&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=21011464&wl13=&veh=sem) works fine to keep RH at about 45%.

[Bob A]

I've run the gamut from the old Dampits, which were brownish transparent tubes with what looked like paper towel inside, to the green tubes with sponge (which would suddenly self-destruct into a gooey mess after a few years) to the moisture-holding clay in plastic containers, and ultimately gave up on all of them; too much time spent messing around, the occasional problem of over-humidifying an instrument, the question of just what was causing the green tubes to turn to mush, and what would it do to the instruments?

Room or house climate control is the single best way. Get a humidifier - I used to be partial to the Sears whole-house, but recently switched to Vornado - and run it whenever the house heating system was active; in the summer, A/C to keep the humidity at bay. If I leave the house with an instrument, it's in a case and protected from the elements, be they heat, cold, sun, rain or whatever.

Violinists use cases that are lined with silk, if their instruments deserve it, because silk acts as a buffer - it absorbs or dispenses moisture (water in a vapor state, not droplets, of course) to stabilise the humidity level in the case. Case covers in winter are a nice idea for taking instruments out of doors. The big idea is to prevent sudden large changes in temperature or humidity.

If circumstances permit, keeping wooden instruments in a place where temp and humidity don't vary too much, or too quickly, is the ideal. If that can't be done, maybe a room for them, with controlled humidity.

A noted violin maker, David Burgess, has good advice on his website. It's well worth reading. Here's a link: http://www.burgessviolins.com/humidity.html

I should add that I used to keep my first good guitar, a Gibson Hummingbird, in a hermetically-sealed Mark Leaf case, with a dampit that I'd take care to keep moist. The neck block eventually swelled to the point that it slightly deformed the top above. Too much care with too little information can be worse than nothing at all.

[Trav'linmando]

I have decided that due to my job requirements (long haul trucker) I will not carry hi-end instruments with me. I drive thru wyoming about 4 times a month. Usually I am coming from or going to a high humidity region. My instruments are in a constant state of shock. I run the a/c most of the time and need to retune what ever mando I am playing daily. My Washburn is the most finicky, however I recently switched to GHS LSB250 strings and she seems to be happier. I carry the 3 mandolins with me constantly and they all live in a case. As Tobin said, it's like putting the kids to bed.

[CES]

I agree that whole house humidifiers are the way to go. We've tuned my wife's baby grand precisely once in the past 4 years or so, and my smaller instruments are much happier as well. I still keep them in cases for protection, but they'd be fine on a stand or the wall in my music room. Down here, humidity is much more of an issue in the summer, especially in the basement, where I run the dehumidifier for all but the coolest couple of winter months.

[Paul Busman]

Isn't it the changing back and forth from high to low humidity that does most of the harm? Especially rapid changes. If the humidity is always low, might it not be OK.
FWIW, I've never humidified any string instrument (guitar, fiddle, mandolins of varying sizes). This was in upstate NY which can get pretty darn muggy in the summer and bone dry in the winter. Enough variation that doors stick in the summer, and gaps appear in the hardwood flooring in the winter. Never had an instrument problem though.

[michaelcj]

Agree with Paul B. on this one…I live in the PNW. My instruments live on the walls where I can get to them for any spare seconds, minutes, hours. Never had an issue.

[Folkmusician.com]

I leave one guitar and one mandolin out at all times. These are typically in the front room. The rest stay in cases in the bedroom. Our whole house is humidified, though I am not 100% on this as I am with the business side of things where I am very religious about controlling the humidity. In that case, our livelihood is at stake and it is just the right thing to do.

Our home humidifier is rated at double the sq ft of our house and seems about right. We have it on a smart outlet so it only kicks in when we are not home or in the early AM hours. Aside from filling it with water and the occasional cleaning, we don't really notice that it is there.

Our shop humidifier is rated at more like 3 times the sq ft. This one is on 24/7, but doesn't really kick on all that much.

[Tom Sanderson]

149264I talked about this before in another thread. I have an old secretary desk with a bookshelf on top. It has glass doors. I removed the shelves, installed 2 string swing hangers and a hygrometer . The humidity is much easier to control and stays pretty steady. I think it's the best of both worlds because my instruments are protected and are easily accessible . You can also use a china cabinet . You can usually find them pretty cheap on Craigslist .

[allenhopkins]

Isn't it the changing back and forth from high to low humidity that does most of the harm? Especially rapid changes. If the humidity is always low, might it not be OK.

No; it's the loss of moisture from the wood cells, over a certain period of time, that causes them to shrink and pull apart, creating splits. Affects mandolin tops most severely, other parts of the mandolin somewhat less. Also reduces the arch of mandolin tops, which affects the action. Instruments built in a low humidity environment -- i.e. out of "dryer" wood -- will not be as affected by low humidity, but it's safest to assume most will be happier around 45-50% humidity.


FWIW, I've never humidified any string instrument (guitar, fiddle, mandolins of varying sizes). This was in upstate NY which can get pretty darn muggy in the summer and bone dry in the winter. Enough variation that doors stick in the summer, and gaps appear in the hardwood flooring in the winter. Never had an instrument problem though.

You have been lucky. I've never had my house catch on fire, but I'm pretty scrupulous about smoke detectors. Some instruments go centuries, exposed to wide variations of temperature and humidity, and emerge unscathed. Others crack within a few days of being in a dry environment. You can take your chances, or you can take precautions, depending on your level of risk aversion.

[BradKlein]

It's no problem humidifying instruments that are hanging up - as long as they are INSIDE some kind of cabinet, or a fully humidified room, or a centrally humidified house!

HERE (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?93405-Musical-Instrument-Humidor) is a thread from a few years back, showing the solution that has worked in my apartment for 5 or 6 extremely dry NYC winters (that is, DRY inside the radiator-heated apartment).

[Bertram Henze]

I have a different issue that has me keeping my lovelies in their stout cases. I live in EARTHQUAKE country!

Has me thinking - is there a mandolin survivor in its case below?

http://en.prothom-alo.com/contents/cache/images/643x0x1/uploads/media/2016/04/19/372da7aa8a56e00d7013da460eb70642-A-worker-clears-debris-of-a-collapsed-building-after-an-earthquake-struck-off-the-Pacific-coast--in-Portoviejo.-Reuters.JPG

[Petrus]

Has me thinking - is there a mandolin survivor in its case below?

If there was a mandolin in or out of a case there, it was probably squashed flatter than a pancake, along with several luckless residents, I dare say. :(