Balance

[campertraveller]

What do you prefer?
When fitting a strap to the mandolin--F5 style--where do you fit the strap for best balance? On the headstock, under the strings at the nut end or attach at the scroll on the body? Both for playing sitting and standing?

[Ray(T)]

Hi Mike

I've never seen an F style with a strap anywhere other than on the scoll and all the angst exposed by these fora seems to concern where to attach straps on mandolins without scrolls.

Ray
(A mile or so outside the Peak District!)

[MediumMando5722]

Scroll.

[UsuallyPickin]

Scroll for an F ........

[Johnny60]

Scroll

[dhergert]

Scroll.

Mandolins are light enough that you might get away with above the nut, but personally, I wouldn't do it. Neck joints are too fragile and string tension is too high for me to be comfortable with that location.

Do some of our builders may have a more educated opinion about this? I'm interested.

:)

-- Don

[Marty Jacobson]

If y'all knew how hard it was to carve and bind a scroll, you wouldn't be wrapping shoelaces around 'em. I bet you a whole dollar that Andrew Mowry cringes every time he sees one of his instruments with a strap around the scroll, but he's just too nice of a guy to say anything.

[Roger Moss]

But...but....that's the way Bill did it.

[Ray(T)]

There are some who would argue that a scroll has no other function than for somewhere to fix a strap.;) + I've never seen an F with a strap button.

[Ivan Kelsall]

All mandolins tend to be a tad neck heavy & to swing downwards,maybe some more than others. Mine do,but it's no problem,as i usually hold the neck steady with my left hand anyway, to avoid them swinging down & hitting anything / anyone.

Marty - Why would Andrew Mowry be against attaching a strap to the scroll ?. Does Andrew really consider it to be a 'no-no' ?.
Adam Steffey played a Mowry with a scroll strap & a huge hunk of top finish missing as well. Whilst i'm commenting,i can tell you that Tom Ellis was far from thrilled when i told him that the original owner of my Ellis "A" style had screwed a bass guitar button onto the side of the neck - his comment would have peeled paint !.

I've always used soft leather straps on a mandolin & the scrolls on my 'F' styles are still like new,
Ivan

[almeriastrings]

I've always used soft leather straps on a mandolin & the scrolls on my 'F' styles are still like new,
Ivan

+ Same here.

[MediumMando5722]

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I love worn out looking instruments. If I built them, and saw they looked like Sam Bush's or Mike Marshall's, I'd be delighted the owner had logged that many hours playing it to death.

Getting angry about installing a strap button or whatever seems a bit silly to me.

[Ausdoerrt]

Granted, I've not played an F-style, but I like the "behind the nut" rather than "under the fingerboard" location on my A styles. It gives more control of the instrument, and I can't imagine how hard one would have to tug on the strap to hurt the neck joint.

As Ivan mentioned, mandos tend to be top heavy (those metal tuners!), so why waste energy and compromise your posture to hold it up with your hand when you can use your hand for that?

[pops1]

I use the headstock for best balance, but not behind the nut. It is too close and gets in the way, I go behind the tuners. Depends on the string height off the headstock as to which tuners I use, but go at an angle behind at least the first tuner, never in the way.

[Loudloar]

This guy always attached his strap at the nut or headstock in his early career.

Steve

148980

[Ausdoerrt]

Yeah, tuners vs nut doesn't make much difference in balance, just personal preference. Somehow, I like the feeling of the strap against the hand; works as a sort of tactile marker as well.

P.S. I suppose on the F style mid-headstock makes more sense given its shape.

[Willie Poole]

My late friend Buzz Busby never used a strap at all....When I asked him to play my F-12 one night at a show just so I could hear what it sounded like when someone else played it the first thing he did was remove the strap, tucked it up under his chin and away he went...I can play like that but not all night, I need a strap and on the A model that I had I installed a strap button under the heel where the neck meets the body. perfect balance on that mandolin...

[Marty Jacobson]

Marty - Why would Andrew Mowry be against attaching a strap to the scroll ?. Does Andrew really consider it to be a 'no-no' ?.
Adam Steffey played a Mowry with a scroll strap & a huge hunk of top finish missing as well. Whilst i'm commenting,i can tell you that Tom Ellis was far from thrilled when i told him that the original owner of my Ellis "A" style had screwed a bass guitar button onto the side of the neck - his comment would have peeled paint !.

I wasn't trying to speak for anyone, sorry if I made it sound like that. My point is just that carving a scroll properly is a lot of work. Andrew's are some of the best IMHO, and if I owned one of his, I'd try to keep it looking just as pretty as the day it was carved. As we've seen, instruments can last hundreds of years and hopefully f-style mandolins will, as well. I spent too much of my career designing ephemeral garbage, and one of the things I like about lutherie is that these things are more permanent than most of the possessions we own. Of course anyone can do whatever they like with their stuff. It just seems like a shame whenever I see the ridge of a nicely carved scroll worn down by a strap.

[amowry]

It pains me more to have to put a strap button on an A5 heel, so I'm fine with the shoelace around the scroll ;) Just as long as it's not barbed wire.

[mandroid]

Evan Marshall I see, uses the other Scroll Out on the headstock of His Gilchrist F5.

holds it relatively High .. tailpiece is the Arm rest.

Tie the cord around headstock My A4, Usually just sit in a Chair ( heel button, Mix CF A5;
Mariachi strap hooked in sound hole of Hodson D'Jangolin)

[Jim Nollman]

I've owned a lot of mandolins over the years. In every case they either had a scroll or no-scroll but with a strap button on the heel.

I recently bought an Altman two-point that came to me with a strap that circled the headstock under the tuners. Never having dealt with that particular situation before, I called Bob Altman to ask what he thought about me adding a heel button. He basically told me to put that idea out of my mind. I certainly honored his request.

I'm hoping a luthier can chime in here, to tell us precisely what the problem is with a heel button, since, after all, so many instruments do come with them. Is it aesthetic? mechanical? or both?

My BRW oval hole has a heel button, and I have to say that I actually prefer using the button to tying up the headstock. A button makes it so much easier to put the strap on, and take it off the instrument. Mandolins don't weigh very much, so the discussion about proper balance seems kind of moot to me.

[Rich Benson]

I hope some luthiers chime in as well. Coming from the guitar world where heel strap buttons are commonplace it's hard for me to understand the strong objections that I hear about mandolins. I've had 3 custom guitars built and all had heel strap buttons installed by the builder.

[DHopkins]

Scroll

On many mandolins, I'm not sure there's enough room to put a strap beyond the nut between the strings and head. I guess one could use split leather but that's waaaay to flimsy and there's no way I'll put a strap button anywhere in that area.

Anyway, like Ray(T) hinted at earlier, what else is the scroll good for?

[Ivan Kelsall]

I use the ''strap under'' method on my Ellis,& it hangs exactly like my "F" styles with a scroll strap. In fact,the strap emerges from under the extension in exactly the same position as a strap on the scroll. The Ellis seems to be better balanced to a degree because of the lower headstock weight,
Ivan

[Ray(T)]

My Kimble A5 came with a strap button fitted from new so, clearly, not all luthiers subscribe to the "never fit a strap button" camp.

[J.Albert]

I realize that this post will be viewed as blasphemous by most, but here goes.

Folks don't seem to mind a strap pin in the neck heel for A models. I assume that "strapped" in such a manner, an A model balances out well enough.

Has anyone ever tried a strap pin in the neck heel of an F model?
How did it balance?

[mandroid]

I imagine just like the balance of an A5 with a button in the neck heel..




There is the strap over the Right shoulder only crowd, emulating Stetson remains in place, Bill M ,

and the strap over the head Left shoulder crowd .... as well ..

So expect no consensus on anything.. :whistling:

[Steve Ostrander]

I use the scroll on my F and the "tie under the FB" method on an A. And I don't just sling it over my shoulder like Bill. I sling it like a guitar strap, probably because I played guitar for 40 years before I took up mandolin.