The search continues...

[Demetrius]

I'm having the hardest time choosing what move to make next.
What will it take to decide and pull the trigger on one of them?
It's down to these anyway. "For now"

1. Brentrup M23v 2003 mint
2. Wiens F-5 2013 mint
3. Apitius F 2015 mint
4. Givens F-5 1992 w/truss rod excellent condition
5. Givens F-5 1989 great condition
But doesn't have a truss rod so Im iffy.

This is where it's at, unless someone comes along with something
interesting that they're selling

[DataNick]

You're shopping in tall cotton there buddy!

Best regards on your purchase decision; let us know what you choose...

[Mark Wilson]

Nice list. Have you played them or are you buying online?

[lenf12]

The first 3 builders are all still alive so I vote for the '92 Givens F-5 w/trussrod. Bob isn't making them anymore...

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[UsuallyPickin]

I have a Givens A w/o a truss rod and it is holding up well. I have always had a curiosity about Apitius instruments. I have not played one but those I have heard being played were excellent. R/

[MikeEdgerton]

The first 3 builders are all still alive so I vote for the '92 Givens F-5 w/trussrod. Bob isn't making them anymore...

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

True but I don't think Hans is building mandolins anymore.

[Demetrius]

Hi Mark,
Ive played Apitius mandolins before and have loved every one, I have not played this
specific one but its a very recent one and I trust the improvments that Oliver has stated
really are improvements. These are all Varnish models now...

I haven't played a Givens mandolin that I wasn't in love with yet. but Ive never played one of his F's also
the truss rod thing would give me a peace of mind.

The Wiens, is stunning and Im going to admit that I am basing a lot of my thoughts on this mandolin based on looks.
I feel like shallow Hal. How can something that good looking not sound good? Im hoping this is true lol

I have played the Brentrup a couple of times, and it was breathtakingly beautiful..
the sound was nice but I thought it was weak, like something was stopping it from doing
what Hans meant it to do. I noticed it had a pretty thick top from what I could sight from
the edge of the f holes. I wanted to investigate further, but I didn't wanna go sticking my
fingers in someone else's mandolin. A major factor is the mandolin is from 2003 and I don't
think its had any play in the past 7 years, and before that it was rarely touch since it had been
ordered. I really feel this thing is asleep and never woke up to begin with. in fact I feel it still
believes it is a tree. Anyhow as I was heading out the seller walked up to and showed me the
pack of strings a local luthier had put on it two years before. It was a set of j-62 D'addario mando
strings. I then realized that these strings were not enough to drive the never woken up top on this
mando. I don't know, to be honest I have no experience with these strings but I really have a feeling
this may have a little bit to do with whats going on. thoughts?

[pops1]

I left for 10 days and took my backup mandolin while my Brentrup sat home. When I got back it was dead, but some playing brought it back. They are heavier than other mandolins, but I can have a very low action and hit it hard and it doesn't flinch. They can be driven hard and smile. I have played a couple of Givens lately, Collings, Weber, Gibson Loar, and many others, but nothing matches the complexity of my Brentrup. Not as loud as some, loud enough, but oh the sound. When I got it it had not been played for a year and then not much before that. After much playing this mandolin is all I could ask for. Some strings won't be as nice and the intonation needs to be spot on on mine, maybe more so than other mandolins. I wish I could be in your position of choice. DO NOT ENVY THY NEIGHBORS MANDOLIN. Have fun choosing and enjoy your purchase.

[Demetrius]

My brothers Brentrup and and my work partners Brentrup are both two of the most reaponsuve instruments ever.

[Demetrius]

The biggest regret out of any instrument I've ever parted with was a Brentrup F5-c..
I kid you not, I think about that mandolin everyday.

[MikeEdgerton]

My mandolin biggest regret was not buying a Brentrup snakehead that Hans offered me. Instead I bought my wife a car.

[Bill13]

Which one sounds the best?

[mrmando]

Which one sounds the best?
Probably the Brentrup, unless the car's had a tuneup recently.

[Jeff Mando]

Brentrup, it is!

[Demetrius]

If only it were that easy...

[Ivan Kelsall]

From Demetrius - "...like something was stopping it from doing what Hans meant it to do. I noticed it had a pretty thick top..."
It sounds pretty much the way my Czech. built Lebeda sounded when i first got it. It's a slightly larger than standard size for a mandolin & i suspect that the top could have been made thinner ( but i'm no luthier - so that's guess). I tried different string brands / gauges on it with no real improvement until i found the DR MD11 strings,which i now use on it. They are a very powerful string, as strong & punchy as you'd ever need with no loss of tone either. They might just be the answer to the Brentrup's ''sonic deficiency''.
They're the same gauges as EJ74's ( old J74's) & as easy to play on,but they're a totally different animal,:disbelief:
Ivan~:>
147927

[pops1]

Demetrius, I have been making up string sets from GHS white bronze guitar strings. I use standard 11,16,26, but because of a smaller core winding and lack of a 40 I use a 42. These strings are dry, don't color the sound like bronze, are clean and really let the Brentrup shine. I know it would be hard to change strings on a mandolin you are looking at, and you have to take off the ball ends on the wound strings, but it may let you know more of the sound. Also if you can wake it up before making a decision. Once awake I doubt it will get time to sleep from playing joy.

[Mandobar]

I take it you returned the Givens A.

Hans specifically made his tops very thick. It was part of his design.

[Demetrius]

Mandobar, I did send it back but not nessesarliy as a return. they are going to contact me
about options for stabilizing the neck. either with compression frets, or a carbon fiber rod, or
perhaps both? Idk, somehow I think that would change the sound. They will hopefully be able
to do it, and hopefully not quote me too much. At this point I don't think I can part with it fully,
but regardless, Im gonna get one of the mandolins mentioned above.

He made his tops thick? just then or even recently?

[Mandobar]

The tops are pretty thick on all the Brentrups I have owned, and I believe that Hans told me he preferred to build that way.

[Jim Garber]

Demetrius:
I have been following your multiple posts on various threads on your searching for the perfect instrument. Frankly, I don't believe that any of us can truly help you to come up with a solution. As you no doubt know, you are the final arbiter for this decision. In the ideal fantasy world if you can get all those mandolins you list above in one room each with a fresh set of strings and play them one after each other for a day, perhaps you will can most easily find your one true love.

Since that situation is most likely out of the question, I think you may just have to settle for what most of us do. Play as many as you can first. Maybe you will have to set aside some extra cash to play for multiple shipping costs to try them out with returns or even travel to a place that has many of these. At some point you will just have to settle for one.

In my mandolin ownership history I have serially owned and upgraded one after another. I now have small collection of ones that I pick to play. I have owed some of these for multiple decades. My most recent acquisition of them all is my 2007 Brentrup snakehead A4C. That is my usual first choice playing instrument these days. My more bluegrassy one is my 83 Flatiron A5-2. I don't think I ever assumed that I would find the ultimate mandolin but just took them as they come then moved one if one played or sounded better or fit the styles I was into at that time. Similar process worked for me for guitars and fiddles.

One thing I don't recall ever hearing you say in your recent posts: what is your main playing mandolin these days?

[Demetrius]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the feed back, I get what you're saying... I may end up traveling to some places.
As far as what I'm playing these days, up until a month ago I was pickin on a Dudenbostel F-5.
Before that, a Brunkalls A-5, before that a Brentrup F-5c, and before that a Gibson Distressed
Mastermodel. All great mandolins, but if I could have one back it would be the Brentrup F-5c.
Maybe the current owner will sell it back to me one day, (you know who you are).. :)

[Jim Garber]

Man, I am sure that you know your mandolins and you certainly have the experience. Good luck on your search.

[Mandobar]

I have to admit, I have not sold one thing yet that I would buy back.

[Jeff Mando]

Dare I say......there is no ultimate......well, there is......until the next one comes along! :grin:

I love all my instruments and many I've had for 30-40 years, but they all have areas that could be tweaked soundwise or personality-wise, but that's what makes them appeal to me. And, I'm glad that I can hear those things as a measure for comparison when I try other instruments.

And, I hate to say it, having some age behind me means I'm no longer in a race to find anything, these days. If it comes, it will present itself, IMHO.

[Paul Busman]

Demetrius-- what are you playing now and why do you want to change? Just curious.

[Jim Garber]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the feed back, I get what you're saying... I may end up traveling to some places.
As far as what I'm playing these days, up until a month ago I was pickin on a Dudenbostel F-5.
Before that, a Brunkalls A-5, before that a Brentrup F-5c, and before that a Gibson Distressed
Mastermodel. All great mandolins, but if I could have one back it would be the Brentrup F-5c.
Maybe the current owner will sell it back to me one day, (you know who you are).. :)


Demetrius-- what are you playing now and why do you want to change? Just curious.

Paul: I asked the same question and he answered above. It sounds like the search for ultimate perfection which I agree with previous poster, might be impossible in reality. OTOH it is fun to try to get near that goal. On the third hand, it sounds like Demetrius has been pretty near that place a number of times.

BTW what is the difference between a Brentrup M23v and an F5c? Is it that M23 is copy of a specific Loar whereas F5c is general classic F5?

[Mandobar]

It sounds like the OP does not have a mandolin right now.

[Jim Garber]

It sounds like the OP does not have a mandolin right now.

Hmmmm... I cannot imagine selling off every mandolin I own and not have at least one to play.

[Mandobar]

I may have assumed incorrectly, but he doesn't mention a "current" mandolin.

[Demetrius]

Mandobar, you are absolutely correct! Currently there is not a mandolin
In my collection of instruments. This is why I seem a little insane...

[Demetrius]

There is a Hester F-5 for sale, anyone know anything about those?
Also, I got some video clips and great photos of 3 Hogan mandolins.
The guy can build...

[Mandobar]

Take a deep breath, D. Remember instruments are easier to buy than to sell.

[Jim Garber]

We need a mandolin lending library so Demetrius can take his time finding one he loves. Actually, after re-reading his posts, it seems like there are many he loves. Commitment can be difficult esp when presented by multiple possibilities. The OP started with 5 possibilities but now I see that he has added a few more and additional possible makers to explore.

Knowing how many excellent makers are out there, I think if I were in his position I might go insane. In actual fact, tho, I am already insane, so maybe it makes no difference. OTOH I do have plenty of mandolins I love to play in my house.

[Demetrius]

Mando bar and Jim... You've both hit the nail on the head...
"Option shock"

[sblock]

Well, many of your fellow mandolin players here in the Mandolin Cafe can easily identify with your desire to get the best-possible sounding mandolin. But most of us are bewildered to learn that you would divest yourself of all mandolins in that process. I, for one, just can't imagine doing that, myself! Perhaps, at heart, you're something more of a instrument collector, but less of a mandolin player? Or perhaps the mandolin is just not your main love as an instrument? Otherwise, this behavior makes no sense to me at all. It can't be about the money, because most of us don't have the financial wherewithal to have previously owned such pricey instruments as a Dudenbostel, a Brentrup, and a Gibson Distressed Master Model -- as you have. Yow: those instruments are mostly up in the $10,000-$20,000 range. You'd think that with that kind of investment (not to mention all your other instruments), you'd also own a "beater" mandolin in the $3,000-$6,000 range: one that would probably outplay 90% of the instruments that others have here on the Mandolin Cafe.

Still, despite not being able to identify with your predicament, I suppose many of us would love to have this "problem" -- the ability to invest ~$20,000 in an instrument, and "option shock" about the many possibilities that it entails.

[Jim Garber]

Mando bar and Jim... You've both hit the nail on the head...
"Option shock"

Well, if it were me and after playing a decent number of mandolins, I think I would opt for a Nugget A (given my budget and assuming I sold a god many of my other instruments. However, considering your statement about your long lost Brentrup, I would just pick one of these: Brentrups for sale (https://brentrupmandolinregistry.wordpress.com/category/for-sale/).

[LadysSolo]

Wow! There are some beauties on Brentrups for sale. How could you choose by looks? If they sound as good as they look, Incredible!

[Steve Roberts]

Well, if it were me and after playing a decent number of mandolins, I think I would opt for a Nugget A (given my budget and assuming I sold a god many of my other instruments. However, considering your statement about your long lost Brentrup, I would just pick one of these: Brentrups for sale (https://brentrupmandolinregistry.wordpress.com/category/for-sale/).

Thanks for the link! The picture of Charley Rappaport holding the blacktop 3 point made me smile. A great musician holding a stunning mandolin. Perfect.

[Demetrius]

Yes the Brentrup in the lineup Im looking at is one of the most pretty mandolins you'll ever see...

[Mandobar]

Those are old ads. The black three pointer is long sold.

[JeffD]

Mando bar and Jim... You've both hit the nail on the head...
"Option shock"

The way to get past option shock is to realize two things:

No matter what you decide, you will regret it. You have some great options, and to some small extent you will always regret the unchosen ones. (In the same way, whatever you chose, through playing it often, you will come to love it and to believe it was the perfect choice.)

No matter what you decide, there is a good chance this is not the last mandolin you will ever acquire. Four mandolins ago I purchased the last mandolin I would ever want. And I am not profligate.


The funnest part of the adventure is playing the darn thing. :)

[Demetrius]

I've actually never played a Gilchrist A.
This is in the classifieds at I think a very good price.
Does anyone know how they compare to
The F's?

http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/99788#99788

P.S. Yes another one added to the list.:crying:

[Wilbur James]

I would go for the Gilchrist.

[Jim Garber]

I've actually never played a Gilchrist A.
This is in the classifieds at I think a very good price.
Does anyone know how they compare to
The F's?

http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/99788#99788

P.S. Yes another one added to the list.:crying:

Joe Walsh played/plays one. It sounds great in his hands (https://pegheadnation.com/instruments-gear/fine-lutherie/gilchrist-model-3-mandolin/). I heard him a few years ago on this mandolin when he played with the Gibson Brothers.

[Demetrius]

Actually then I take it back, I have played a Gilchrist A.
I've played Joes black top. He got a nugget A recently that was pretty ridiculously good in every way.

[Demetrius]

Actually I double take it back, I played a Gilchrist blonde A too.
Very fancy. Both were not what I love... I am into lots of sustain.
I love Engleman which is probably why I loved the sound of the Givens.
Any mandolin I've played with an Engleman top has had this quality I love.
The only thing is none cut through very well aside from the Givens.

[Jim Garber]

Sustain...? The best f-holes with sustain in my book (I hate to say it) are Monteleone's beauties. A friend has a Baby Grand from the 1980s that is among my top mandolins ever and I have also played one of the super rare A models he made. Sustain and sweetness all the way up the neck.

[Demetrius]

Yeh I mean don't get me wrong the Gils were great mandolins in every way. But just too dry
For what I do. I like semi dark, tons of sustain with over tones. A nice complex mandolin.
Engleman and German spruce both seem to have that sonic quality

- - - Updated - - -

I've dreamed about a monti baby grand.

[sgarrity]

You need a Heiden with an Engelmann top!

[pheffernan]

Isn't A. Lawrence Smart the Engelmann guru?

http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/100059#100059

[Jim Garber]

You need a Heiden with an Engelmann top!


Isn't A. Lawrence Smart the Engelmann guru?

http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/100059#100059

As the possibility list grows...

[Demetrius]

I had a chance lastnight to sit down and play Mike Marshalls Loar.
It ruined everything lol. I forgot how great that thing sounded.
I Just need to pretend that sound and feel doesn't exist.

[Mandobar]

Could it also be that Mike has been strumming away on it for years. Joe Walsh told me that when he bought his Gilchrist A he made a conscious commitment to keep it and play it for 3 years.

[Jim Garber]

I had a chance lastnight to sit down and play Mike Marshalls Loar.
It ruined everything lol. I forgot how great that thing sounded.
I Just need to pretend that sound and feel doesn't exist.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't it Mike's Loar that was regraduated back in the 1980s by John Monteleone? I remember seeing the jar of shavings that John kept on his workbench.

[Demetrius]

Well that's exactly it, there's no real way to know how a modern builders mandolin will sound like in 80+ years.
I will say though, Mikes mandolin has been reworked in just about everyway. And it's still to him
not perfect. But he's love the sound enough to hang onto it all these years and slowly make it more of an instrument that would fit his needs. Changing neck angles with shims under the fingerboard, ripping a Virzi out, I think even re graduating the inside. He showed me a graphite nut he's trying on it in hopes it'll be more in tune. He looked at me and said there's no difference. Mandolins will never be completely in tune. It's like someone said on here, there is no ideal. All we can hope for is we find along the way whats closest to our ideal.

[Hallmark498]

Have you tried an Ellis?

Wondering if Tom does/would do a Engelmann top?

[Jim Garber]

Well that's exactly it, there's no real way to know how a modern builders mandolin will sound like in 80+ years.

I will say though, Mikes mandolin has been reworked in just about everyway. And it's still to him
not perfect. But he's love the sound enough to hang onto it all these years and slowly make it more of an instrument that would fit his needs. Changing neck angles with shims under the fingerboard, ripping a Virzi out, I think even re graduating the inside. He showed me a graphite nut he's trying on it in hopes it'll be more in tune. He looked at me and said there's no difference. Mandolins will never be completely in tune. It's like someone said on here, there is no ideal. All we can hope for is we find along the way whats closest to our ideal.

Yup... we cannot expect perfection. I have mandolins that I have owned and played for decades now and I am still tinkering with them for tone and playability. My tastes in those may have also changed over the years but I do know what I like (as do you) so I know where I want to go, tho I may not know how to get there. So, I suppose you grab something close enough and tinker it to your liking.

As for what it will sound like in 80+ years: I will not be here to find out but I would go for how it sounds and plays in the present. That is all we really can do.

[Demetrius]

Mike really seems to love the Northfields. He said the newest and the highest end stuff will blow you your mind completely away.
In his words, (we're going all the way with these)...

When asking him about his thoughts on other makers, He said he loves Ashley Broders Apitius.
He also really likes Tom Rozum's Wiens too. I specifically asked him about these mandolins of course.
I just wanted to clarify that this wasn't by coincidence since these are two of the 300 mandolins Im agonizing about lol.
He also was also very impressed with my brothers Brentrup Stealth. He played it for about 30 min or so, and said
only positives about it. We've known him long enough to trust he'd be brutily honest about a mandolin that we show him.
Its happened in the past... He thought the Brentrup really maintained its integrity all of the way up the neck.

[Mandobar]

A lot of the sound comes from the player too. I once heard Charlie Rappaport playing a mandolin at Acoustic Music Works in Pittsburgh. It sounded so good I just had to have it............and lo and behold it was a Kentucky KM150.

True story.

[Billy Packard]

Hey there! I got my #246 Gilchrist A3 in 1993 and it has been a perfect mando! Bright on top with full, warm mid and lower end and sustain until you're finished with the note. Engelmann top and sugar maple S&B with X bracing. It is sequentially very near Walsh's and sounds very similar. Gilchrist has an archive with details on each instrument he's built..
http://www.gilchristmandolins.com/archive/

The first time I actually met Stephen Gilchrist I asked him if the difference between A models and F models was cosmetic and he resoundingly said YES! The countless other details make up the instrument.

Yesterday I went to Gryphon Stringed instruments and spent time playing a 1987 Gilchrist F5 Fern, (#173) That is priced at $16,250.00 and I must say it sounds very much like the Lloyd Loar instruments I've had the opportunity to play. The E & A strings are very bright and loud and the D and G strings are strong and focused. You should check out this one while you're looking,

it.https://shop.gryphonstrings.com/products/1987-mandolin-family-mandolin--gilchrist-model-5-f5-radius-neck-48547

[Demetrius]

Hah! Good story Mandobar...
Hands do make all the difference.

[sblock]

For the amount of money you'd need to spend to get one of those extremely high-end instruments that you're considering ($12,000-$25,000, and possibly more, if you opt for a signed Loar), it would well be worth your while to get better educated with your own ears. Soliciting other folks' opinions about whatever they think sounds great may make for some interesting reading, but it simply won't cut it, I'm afraid, in guiding any purchase of this type -- however informative these opinions may appear to you on the surface. In the final analysis, it's a whole lot of money at play in this game, and only you can decide what you truly like. Among these rarified instruments, even from a single luthier, there is still too much variation from one mandolin to the next to be able to make very useful generalizations. This becomes even more variable when you consider instruments of different ages, different woods, and with different playing histories. When you fold in the way that YOU play -- and not someone else! -- things become even more variable. Simply because Mike Marshall or Adam Steffey (or whoever) can draw an amazing tone from some or other instrument does not mean that you'll be able to do the same. The chances are good that you will sound like, well, you! But no question about it, some mandolins will please your ear more than others. And you are right to try to find those.

The only way to do this, in my opinion, is to go and play the actual mandolin. Recordings don't do it justice, and they cannot speak to the playability of an instrument, either, which is a big factor. Opinions of so-called experts matter little, and can only provide a crude guide. Once you're up in the range of more than $10,000, anything you consider will be among "the very best" in the opinion of at least one or two experts! That's a reason why these instruments command such high prices, after all. Pictures mean nothing, either. There is no other way: you have to play the instrument yourself.

A round-trip plane trip to Nashville (from California? Is that where you are?) is a small amount of money compared to what you might spend on a truly great mandolin. So my advice is to take a field trip to Nashville very soon, and visit both Carter Vintage Guitars and Gruhns Guitars. Between them, they have the best selection of high-end mandolins in the world right now, bar none. Spend a day or two, and play everything in the shops. While you're at it, bring along a trusted and talented mandolinist friend, to play them all in front of you, in addition to your own playing behind the instruments. And bounce your thoughts off your friend. THAT'S the best way to decide, in my opinion. You will not reach any conclusions reading threads on the Mandolin Cafe, however well-meaning the advice given here is.

Oh, and afterwards, please write up a full report of your experiences on this trip for all to read here! We'd love to learn about whatever you tried, and whatever decided to you get, and why.

Some of us can only live vicariously through the experiences of those with pockets so deep they run to five figures on up. :popcorn:

[sgarrity]

Last weekend I was at a jam and we had a '24 Loar, a '99 Gilchrist F5, my Kimble F5, and an Ellis F5. I got to play that Loar for about an hour. I've played the Gil and Ellis many other times. As we sat and picked tunes and swapped mandolins every one of us was having a wonderful time no matter the instrument we were playing. I think any one of us would have been happy to take any of those mandolins home with us. The Loar, Gil, and Kimble all had the more focused mid-range we associate with a "bluegrass" mandolin. The Ellis was bassier with more overtones and provided more auditory feedback to the player. So many great options out there!

[DataNick]

I had a chance lastnight to sit down and play Mike Marshalls Loar...

Now you've lost me....LOL!....don't think I can relate to your conumdrum; waaaaay out of my league Brotha...LOL!

[Demetrius]

Sblock... Thanks so much for chiming in Sir. Everything you said made so much sense,
and it means a lot to me that you took the time to write that out. I at the very least will
owe you and all the other fine folks on here a nice description of my experience should
I head to Nashville. Thats scenerio really does make a boat load of sense. Ill post a full
review of the experience as well as on the chosen instrument.

[Jeff Mando]

I had a chance lastnight to sit down and play Mike Marshalls Loar.
It ruined everything lol. I forgot how great that thing sounded.
I Just need to pretend that sound and feel doesn't exist.

I had a similar experience with an all original 1958 Stratocaster I played about 20 years ago. It pretty much ruined the "chase" for electric guitars for me. Shoulda bought it..........:crying:

[pheffernan]

Mike really seems to love the Northfields. He said the newest and the highest end stuff will blow you your mind completely away. In his words, (we're going all the way with these)...

The Northfield Artist with five bars and an Engelmann top might provide the tone you're chasing.

[Demetrius]

I believe I may have found it!
Stand by.

[Jim Garber]

I believe I may have found it!
Stand by.

We are waiting with bated breath. :)

[Dale Ludewig]

Perhaps Demetrius has found the Schmergel...... In a pawn shop on a side street off Broadway?

[darylcrisp]

Demetrius
one of the folks in this group has to be you-the instruments you mentioned made me immediately think of this.
I'm thinking you may be the player at the start?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlf3wctqD3k


and while at it, throwing this Campy in the mix
http://themusicemporium.com/mandolins/campanella-f5-2005

[Mark Wilson]

Perhaps Demetrius has found the Schmergel...... In a pawn shop on a side street off Broadway?I think I might have played that one. Hard to read the script from the glow and all. I remember it was pricey.

[Demetrius]

Daryl, Thats is correct... It is I in the video.
I miss that Dude mando :-/

[darylcrisp]

Daryl, Thats is correct... It is I in the video.
I miss that Dude mando :-/

I remember finding this video over a year ago, a couple months after I started playing. That video, and how you play-your manipulation of the pick angle, using different areas of the fretboard, and a light touch, have influenced me heavily.

Thank you for that video.

I agree, that Dude in your hands was wonderful. I liked immediately-and still do, the Brentrup also. Love its shape and sound.

This thread is even more interesting now.

And I think you might get along with a certain Northfield quite well.

d

[Mandobar]

Different mandolins require different approaches. A few years back at a mandolin festival I watched as some really fine mandolinists exchanged mandolins to play a few tunes and you could see them adjust how they approached the different instruments after a few bars.

For the life of me, I cannot see Demetrius going for a Northfield after owning and playing Thile's ex-Dude for a few years. Northfields are what they are, but I notice Adam Steffey is still playing his other mandolins and so is Mike Marshall. I'm always very wary when people endorse models for compensation (of any kind).

[darylcrisp]

Different mandolins require different approaches. A few years back at a mandolin festival I watched as some really fine mandolinists exchanged mandolins to play a few tunes and you could see them adjust how they approached the different instruments after a few bars.

For the life of me, I cannot see Demetrius going for a Northfield after owning and playing Thile's ex-Dude for a few years. Northfields are what they are, but I notice Adam Steffey is still playing his other mandolins and so is Mike Marshall. I'm always very wary when people endorse models for compensation (of any kind).

Marshall and Steffey are playing/working on the Artist models which are different in a lot of ways than the standard Northfield models. Marshall's Artist model is what Mr D recently played.
Fun thread-interesting to see what lands in the lap when the dust settles.

d

[Mandobar]

Endorsers generally get instruments with better woods, hardware, etc. They all get paid to play those instruments (either via cash and or instruments- which, my fellow musicians, are taxable on the fair market value sayeth the IRS. They are not gifts, as businesses are not eligible to give gifts over $400, and only for certain purposes).

That said, I still can't see D with anything other than a Brentrup, a Nugget (last time I saw Don Julin he had a Nugget), or something along those lines. We are, as mandolin buyers, creatures of habit.

[Demetrius]

Drum role please? Pumpumpumpumpumpum!
I decided to make the move on a Gilchrist model 5.
It had all the specifics I was looking for. So stay tuned
for more feedback on this Mando...
A huge thanks to Bill P!

[Russ Donahue]

Congratulations.

[Demetrius]

Thanks for the kind words Daryl...
It's much appreciated!

[darylcrisp]

Thanks for the kind words Daryl...
It's much appreciated!

now you must come back and post us a nice long video when you get this Gil in hand and have the time to do so.

d

[Demetrius]

I would love to do so, and I will!

[UlsterMando]

It must have been difficult to part with your Dudenbostel.
It's a hard act to follow.
I hope that in the Gil' you find your keeper.
Congrats.

[Ken Waltham]

Drum role please? Pumpumpumpumpumpum!
I decided to make the move on a Gilchrist model 5.
It had all the specifics I was looking for. So stay tuned
for more feedback on this Mando...
A huge thanks to Bill P!


Smart move.

[Demetrius]

Yeh Ken, I think so too...

[sgarrity]

Look forward to seeing what you decided on....

[Demetrius]

Here it is!
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[Nick Gellie]

Well done Demetrius. Where did you get your mandolin from and what is its provenance?

You aimed high and got what you wanted I hope.

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

I've never seen a Gil with that finish before. The coloring is a bit more reminiscent of a Heiden to me. Very Cool!

[Relio]

That's a beauty! Congrats!!!

[Demetrius]

It's his Cremona

[AlanN]

Year?

[Demetrius]

Hi Alan, it's a 1987.

Question- They told me the mandolin is coming in a heavy rectangular flight case...
What on earth could that be? It's not a Calton or anything like that, could it possibly be
one of those overly heavy anvil cases? I completely forgot to ask. I guess I'll find out but perhaps someone could fill me in on what they think this case could be.

[sgarrity]

Gary Price made some. So did Mark Leaf? Maybe his were more coffin-shaped.

[Demetrius]

The package is supposedly like 25lbs

[Demetrius]

I feel like if it was anything better than a really heavy scary case then they wouldve noted it...
all I'm pictureing is the 3x5 ft case with a lot of foam with this little mandolin way in the middle

[Don Grieser]

There were some old rectangular Caltons.

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

Waiting for a mandolin... Time slows down!!

[Demetrius]

Yeh it's the only time I become a total insomniac

[AlanN]

Hi Alan, it's a 1987.

Thank you. Have fun with it.

[Billy Packard]

Hey Dem, I did see the case & I didn't recognize it brand-wise. It did look overbuilt to be sure!
How you holding up? What day will you actually get it?

[Demetrius]

It feels and sounds like a Loar-
With a huge splash of Gilchrist madness...
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[Richard Mott]

Wow, that is huge, beautiful!!!!

[Relio]

It feels and sounds like a Loar-
With a huge splash of Gilchrist madness...
148189

Beautiful! Give us more pics when you get it home.

[JAK]

Is that the Gil that was at Gryphon Strings?

[Demetrius]

Yes it's the one from Gryphon strings.

[sgarrity]

Looks good!

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

So how is this one compared to the Givens A model you had?

[Mark Seale]

That's a whole lot of goodness.

[Alex Orr]

This has been a fascinating thread to read. I play a 1999 Brentrup M23v. It's actually Hans' third mandolin. I've received a number of comments about the thickness of the top and I have long wondered if, over time, perhaps he tinned them down. The general rule seems to be thinner top, more vibration, better sound and volume. I know it's not quite that simple, but that does seem to be a general rule of thumb. And yet...it's hard for me to recall a louder mandolin than I've played than my Brentrup. Furthermore, it is one of the boomier bass and mid-range mandolins I've ever played and has mighty chop. My biggest issue is the wide-neck (something I think he moved away from very quickly) and the lack of an adjustable truss rod, which admittedly hasn't been a problem yet and hopefully never will. I really do hate the fretboard, and it's got a ton of dings and finish checking, but every time I think about selling it, I just can't imagine parting with the sound of the thing. So, put me in the camp of Brentrup owners who think Hans' makes amazing sounding instruments.

[Billy Packard]

This has been a fascinating thread to read. I play a 1999 Brentrup M23v. It's actually Hans' third mandolin. I've received a number of comments about the thickness of the top and I have long wondered if, over time, perhaps he tinned them down. The general rule seems to be thinner top, more vibration, better sound and volume. I know it's not quite that simple, but that does seem to be a general rule of thumb. And yet...it's hard for me to recall a louder mandolin than I've played than my Brentrup. Furthermore, it is one of the boomier bass and mid-range mandolins I've ever played and has mighty chop. My biggest issue is the wide-neck (something I think he moved away from very quickly) and the lack of an adjustable truss rod, which admittedly hasn't been a problem yet and hopefully never will. I really do hate the fretboard, and it's got a ton of dings and finish checking, but every time I think about selling it, I just can't imagine parting with the sound of the thing. So, put me in the camp of Brentrup owners who think Hans' makes amazing sounding instruments.
Alex, I once saw Lynn Dudenbostel reshaping a mando neck. Also the builder could replace the neck with nominal effect. ( I know how you feel hating the width!)

[Demetrius]

Well... The plot thickens Mando folks. After thinking long and hard about it,
I've decided the Gilchrist is going back... In fact I just left UPS and it is on its way back.
And we thought this thread was coming to an end. Ha! Not quite yet...

- - - Updated - - -

Ps Alex, Id love to talk more about that Brentrup of yours.

[JAK]

Sending it back because....???? Not sure but it seems like when this Gil first went up for sale it disappeared for a few days on the Gryphon website, and then came back = somebody else had it on approval and then sent it back? Anyway, what's up Demetrius? Curious minds are all over the place!

[Capt. E]

I take it you returned the Givens A.

Hans specifically made his tops very thick. It was part of his design.

Top thickness is an interesting subject. Compare a vintage Gibson oval with a similar year Martin...the Martin's top is much thinner, but has much less volume than the Gibson and a different tone.

[Demetrius]

The Gil was originally taken off the site because a store worker thought they may be interested in it but they decided against it.
They simply like their old mandolin better.

[Demetrius]

I sent it back because I felt it had a couple of cosmetuc issues.
Issues that I thought I could see in the Website pics, so I inquireed about them
Before ordering. Unfortunately the sales person or no one else could see what I meant so I was assured it was fine.
When it arrived I inspected the instrument and those issues were not my imagination.
Nothing big,just binding separation issues. Needless to say it still made me uncomfortable. So I immediately contacted Gryphon and they were very cooperative and offered to fix it. There is also some set up issues that I just didn't feel like dealing with.I just felt like it was a lot of money to spend to have to worry about some of what it had going on. I communicated with Steve Gilchrest about this mandolin and he is just an unbelievably cool person. I can't even get over it to be honest. He makes an incredible mandolin, and as a human being he is equally kind hearted and passionate about what he does. That said, someone got their hands on this mandolin, somewhere alone the line someone got hold of this mandolin and the set up was absolutely terrible. The bridge top didn't match the radius, so you can imagine what that did to the outer strings physically and tonally. The mandolin has naturally aged in a way that a mandolin ages without even being played. Finish checking Looks gorgeous, but I have a feeling this mandolin hasn't been played a lot it is was more so collected than anything. I don't think it ever opened up or it went back to sleep either way I didn't want to take a chance on that aspect either. I have to be completely happy where it is and if it gets better great but if it stayed the same I'd have to know that I'd be able to live with the sound exactly the way it is. It was a mid range monster he could probably cut through any max I even had a chance to record with it on and electronic project my friend is doing.I just played a little rough in the beginning and little froze throughout nothing too crazy but it was still enough to see that it is an incredible recording instrument. It lacked in the base but I do feel like a set of had a lot to do with this.

- - - Updated - - -

PS excuse me for the typos, I typed this on my iPhone.

[Demetrius]

I'm still very torn about sending it back, but either way house repairs need to be done on it.
Same thing happened with the Givens. I saw back seam separation in the website photos and was assured it was fine. Well, it arrived and no not fine lol! I have to say I still feel that specific Givens is one of the best mandolins on earth. It's all subjective though, most people would say it's not bass heavy enough. No it wasn't bass strong but it was tonally pure beauty. In fact the Gil and the Giv had very similar tonal aspects to them. They were both very powerful in the mid range area , I felt the Gil would cut better in any mix, but the Givens was pure sonic magic and can be described as smooth and buttery to play. And visually, out of any mando I've looked at was simply my favorite. His sunburst was in my opinion as good as it gets.

[Demetrius]

Oh Yeh the lack of truss rod and tiny neck combination on the Givens was another concern.
If someone can give me a solution to that I'd be very tempted and getting that mandolin back. I have thought about it every day since I sent it back. I'm sure the Gilchrest will have the same effect on me though. We shall see. It's clear I've got Mando psychological issues here.

[Demetrius]

I mean to me, this is an elegant looking piece...
And the sound matched perfectly.
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[Jeff Mando]

Hard to believe Gryphon would sell a Gilchrist, or any mandolin, with a poor setup.

[Mandobar]

That's why every musician needs to know a good luthier. I have mine on retainer.

[Josh Levine]

You got it bad dude. I think I trip to Nashville is in order to sort all of this out. If you are dropping 5 figures on a mandolin might as well go play a few dozen of em.

[Perilous Deep]

Been following this to see where you end up. Given your love for Givens, have you checked out this F-5 with adjustable truss rod that's at Greg Boyd? He's certainly seen a fair few pass through there and speaks very highly of this one, which seems to be a rare example of adjustable truss Givens:

http://gregboyd.com/instrument_detail.html?instrument_key=2047

[Mandobar]

The problem with a prolonged search that involves buying and returning instruments, and you need to be realistic about this, is that you wear out your welcome at a lot of places with expensive returns. It's also a very expensive proposition as shipping and insurance costs have gone up.

While it is prudent to try instruments out, from a seller's perspective, the instrument is tied up for a number of days, and there is risk in shipping expensive instruments. It might be cheaper to buy a plane ticket or take a short trip and check things out in person.

[Relio]

I had a similar experience when I was in the market. I purchased a Duff that seemed dead when I received it. I didn't want to wait past the return window to see if it would open up. Then I purchased an Altman at an extremely good price, but the set up was horrible. With the bridge all the way down the action was extremely high and the top was slightly sunken in under the bridge. I came really close to getting out of bed at 2 a.m. one morning and making the 9 hour drive to Nashville. Later that week I purchased a Kimble and fell in love. And now, I'm set for life.... That's my love story :-)

[Demetrius]

Mandobar you and I seem to be on the same about most things and I agree with your last post.
I will say, in these last to instances there was something physically wrong with both mandolins sent.
Separating binding in four places on one Mando, and a split back seam on the other was just something
That made me uncomfortable with the purchase.

[Mandobar]

See, now Demetrius, if I liked them, despite their warts, I would have zipped down to my luthier with mandolin in hand and had him take a look see. I've been through the binding issue before, and it took a bit, but after the fix you could not tell. The problem with some mandolins is that they look perfect and sound "meh", and others have really been played and sound great, but look craggy. Craggy can be fixed, and as I remember, the Gil was priced fairly low (compared to others on the market). "Meh", well sometimes, they never progress beyond "meh".

[Demetrius]

Has anyone played the 2014 Duff at Carter? Or the 2011 Gilchrist A3 theyre aelling?

[Demetrius]

Also , Yeh man I was wondering about that sweet F Givens at Greg Boyd

[Demetrius]

I think I'm gonna get a therapist next...

[pheffernan]

I think I'm gonna get a therapist next...

They too have scrolls and points.

[Jim Garber]

Demetrius: Too bad that 2012 Dudenbostel A (http://themusicemporium.com/mandolins/dudenbostel-1-a-2012) at Music Emporium is on hold. That might have been the logical next on the list.

I assume you are only interested in second-hand? You could just commission from the maker who has the best of the best (for you, that is). I second (or third) the suggestion to take a trip to Nashville or other place where there are a good pile of possibilities. Mandolin Brothers used to be that for me but alas...

I can't recall if you owned a Nugget or not in your past (too lazy to look earlier in this epic thread.)

[Demetrius]

Hi Jim,

Believe it or not I sat and played that Dude for hrs, and yes it was GREAT!
Had it been a slightly smaller neck I would've considered it.

[Jim Nollman]

The most recent posts here remind me of what I just went through. I have been buying and selling mandolins of ever-increasing value for the past 5 years, always trying to build up my mandolin equity. Finally, this past April I sold two fine mandolins and made a promise to myself to buy something special, with the idea of looking for a keeper.

After a few false starts, I pulled the trigger on an Altman two-point I saw on the Cafe. I am well aware of Bob's stellar reputation, so this one caught my eye because the price was incredibly low. But viewing the pics in the ad, I thought the low price had to be a function of the top plate showing some very noticeable fingernail scratches.

I got the Altman for a 48 hour trial. During that time period, probably to a fault, I focused on the tone and the playability. I gave the tone an 8 because it obviously needed a setup. The playability got a 6 because it looked to be badly in need of a fret dressing. During those same 48 hours, I got a message from a Cafe friend who pays attention to high end mandolins in the Classifieds. He told me that the Altman's seller had the same instrument listed in the Cafe Classifieds a year ago, at about twice the price he had quoted me. So I offered him 80% of his selling price. He immediately accepted it.

Within the first week, I got the scratches eliminated by a local luthier who touched up the scratches with a French polish. He also dressed the frets. Unfortunately, when I got it back, I noticed some new problems. The tuners were utter junk. I called Bob Altman, who told me that all his mandolins had waverly tuners. I can only presume that the seller had stripped them off to sell separately, which was one way he could lower the price without suffering a total loss. I felt a bit like a chump, for not noticing that beforehand. I'm not a big fan of Waverlys, so i bought some black and brass Rubner tuners. They look and they work GREAT.

Perhaps more seriously, only after the tuners were installed, I noticed that the new fret dressing had left me with very little fret at several locations on the fingerboard. It was actually less playable than before. So I gave the mandolin to a well-known mandolin repair specialist, with my permission to do anything to make it play and sound perfectly. He changed the frets to EVO gold, resurfaced the fingerboard, raised the nut a tad, nudged the internal rod, and set it with the low action i prefer.

I just got it back. It is — finally — the best sounding mandolin I have ever owned. And it is the keeper I had originally sought.

One last thing. I talked to Bob Altman again about how I had restored the mandolin to something close to its original condition. He told me that he's now getting almost $20k for a mandolin, and that he's probably going to retire in a few more years. He told me to hold on to the mandolin ESPECIALLY if it proved to be an example of his craftsmanship and his much sought after sound. He thought that all I had spent on it, was a pittance to what it would eventually be worth. It's good to know although, truly, it is a keeper.

[Demetrius]

Wow Jim! Oh god now Im panicking that I sent it back. It's 8:14pm and Im laying on my couch reading what you just wrote and it makes me think to myself. Why on earth didn't I get this set up???? Partly due to outside influence. I brought it to the music emporium and between a worker there whom I know very well, and some random customers all agreed it was missing it's low end.This mandolin had substantially been effected by something that stripped it of its low end. Could it be that it just hadn't been played in a long time?
Well actually I know for a fact it wasn't played for a long time. Either way this needed to be mailed back do to the binding separation.
So I just have to keep telling myself that. Maybe I should call them tomorrow and say, I want to send it to Steve Gilchrist for a good set up after repairs on their part have been made.

[Demetrius]

Believe me the Givens F at Boyd is running through my head too. If it's anything like the Givens A I had but with a truss rod
Then I'm intrigued... Only thing I don't like is it looks rather weird. Like the scroll work is like geeZ. The Gilchrist was visual perfect and that Givens visually isn't the prettiest girl on the block Greg said it sounds amazing though. I feel like shallow hal. Anyone seen that movie? That's me. Shallow Dem

[Josh Levine]

Have you played the Campanella at Music Emporium, Demetrius? Curious about that one. Looks like it could be a monster.

[chasray]

Has anyone played the 2014 Duff at Carter? Or the 2011 Gilchrist A3 theyre aelling?

I played the Gilchrist A3 just last week and just loved it and would have bought it if I could. But, I'm not an expert.

[pops1]

Demetrius, look at the classifieds right now. New Givens just hit the market.

[Demetrius]

Only thing... He only posted one mandolin for sale...
There must be two missing in that add cause there is no way
He is selling that one f5 for $35k. Lol
I'm so confused right now

[JAK]

Having over 20 years experience with Gryphon Strings, I cannot imagine them sending or having a mandolin for sale that needs a set-up, or selling a mando that has binding issues unless they tell you about it upfront. Perhaps the binding became a problem during shipping? Whatever happened I don't think Gryphon's reputation should be on the line here (no financial or professional relationship except I buy from them occasionally). They have expert luthiers and repairmen on site, so that really makes me wonder what happened here with the Gil. If it were me looking for a new mandolin I'd go an PLAY a bunch and wait until one really, really "spoke to me." As someone before posted, for the money a Gil costs, I'd take a train, plane, or automobile and go to some shops and play a bunch. That way I wouldn't have any surprises. If I were in your shoes right now Demetrius I wouldn't jump-the-gun and have the same thing happen to you again. Just my two cents.

[Demetrius]

Hi jack,
Yeh somewhere along the line the Gilchrist had a bad set up.
For one the bridge too doesn't match the radius of the fretboard.
So the g and e are significantly higher off the board than the D and a.
It's got a very tight radius so this was very noticeable. Also the bridge
was converted to a full contact bridge. Not by sanding the feet, but by
Filling in the space. I just don't like it done that way. I think it suffered tonally.
Also, now looking back at the pics I saved of the Gil from the website sho the separation.
I zoomed I a few days ago cause I speculated the same thing. Could have happened when being shipped. But I can at least spot two of th four.
In no way is my opinion of Gryphon strings altered. They are a good shop,
Good people and I was very happy with how easy they were to communicate this issue with.
I absolutely would purchase a mandolin from them again. Heck maybe I'll just end up sticking with the Gil once it's fixed.

[Demetrius]

I've been typing this all on my phone, I swear that's why it looks so strange.

[Demetrius]

Jim Nollman, Wow now that's one heck of a story!

[Jeff Mando]

I've been following your various threads, and I'm cheering for you, Demetrius! My thoughts are that a Gil should have an exceptional sound. But, being an '87, some minor maintenance and adjustment may be required to get it to the standards you require. Once repaired and setup, it may just be the "one".

[kathclapp]

It feels and sounds like a Loar-
With a huge splash of Gilchrist madness...
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Beautifl!:)

[Perilous Deep]

Believe me the Givens F at Boyd is running through my head too. If it's anything like the Givens A I had but with a truss rod
Then I'm intrigued... Only thing I don't like is it looks rather weird. Like the scroll work is like geeZ. The Gilchrist was visual perfect and that Givens visually isn't the prettiest girl on the block Greg said it sounds amazing though. I feel like shallow hal. Anyone seen that movie? That's me. Shallow Dem

Is it? The photos are at a slight angle to the face of the mandolin, so perhaps just a perspective effect? I mean, it's definitely the case that the binding work is not ultra-clean, so if fit and finish perfection is a priority, I imagine you'd always be a little dissatisfied there. Anyway, NFI or anything, just looks like a fine instrument to me.

[Mandobar]

Bob Givens was not known for his fit and finish. Rather these mandolin are coveted for their sound and tonal qualities. I don't think anyone should be shopping for a Givens whose focus is on fit and finish.

[Demetrius]

Yeh I mean I will admit the A6 I had visually was close to perfect.
Everything was symmetrical and the work was clean as can be.
However, I don't think any of the F's Ive seen have bee in that camp.
I don't know, I guess if the one at Greg Boyd is simply as good
as he says it is, then who cares about the scroll right? A friend of mine
went in there and sent me a few detailed pics from a bunch of
different angles, she also sent a video and as expected you
can't tell a whole lot from the video.
Also, below is the Brentrup and Wiens that Ive been debating on...
148328 148329

[Jim Nollman]

Glad to hear you picked up a few tips from the story of my own recent purchase of an imperfect Altman. It seems to me that if you are going to buy any of the expensive mandolins you mention, you owe it to yourself either to educate yourself to the fine points of mandolin functionality, OR find (or hire) a consultant to guide you in your search to discover what's there in any mandolin already, and what's just below the surface waiting to be freed. Instead of turning down a Gilchrist because of an improper setup or the trivia of loose binding, you need to have some better ears who will tell you if that mandolin is going to fulfill your dreams once it gets its gingerbread repaired plus a professional setup. Don't rely on a retailer to do that. You may not even be able to hear it in the store. And be aware that despite all the comments elicited by your video of playing ten mandolins, that video doesn't actually provide enough sonic quality for anyone to honestly help you. All those mandolins sounded about the same to me. Yes, its just as true that they all sound differently up close in real time.

My story was meant to explain that, at first sight, I acted oblivious to some obvious flaws with that Altman. But I have played mandolin for a very long time. Once I played my first performance with that Altman, each of the flaws became obvious. Once I diagnosed the problems, I knew precisely what I needed to do (and who I needed to call) to fix them.

And here's the important part. Once i diagnosed the problems, I felt that it was going to be very much worthwhile for me to spend the money to hire a pro to fix them. I knew that in the end, this mandolin was going to sound incredible.

My story describes some major repairs, and when it was complete, I had spent an extra (plus or minus) $800. Certainly, that's too much money to spend restoring an Eastman, and maybe even a Weber. But Bob Altman's reputation made me realize that I was always dealing on a different level here. The mandolin I own now has that clear-as-a-bell bubbly tone and bottomless woofing chop that I have always sought.

Demetrius, you can swap out Bob Altman's name in the above paragraph, and replace it with any of the builders you have been discussing.

[Hallmark498]

Kennard's A3 looks awesome

http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/100786#100786

[darylcrisp]

Yeh I mean I will admit the A6 I had visually was close to perfect.
Everything was symmetrical and the work was clean as can be.
However, I don't think any of the F's Ive seen have bee in that camp.
I don't know, I guess if the one at Greg Boyd is simply as good
as he says it is, then who cares about the scroll right? A friend of mine
went in there and sent me a few detailed pics from a bunch of
different angles, she also sent a video and as expected you
can't tell a whole lot from the video.
Also, below is the Brentrup and Wiens that Ive been debating on...
148328 148329

my vote:

Brentrup, probably not going to be any more made
and of any that you had that you miss most, which one was it........................Brentrup?

d

[Demetrius]

Yeh the F-5c I had was awesome... And still Is pretty awesome
Except I don't wanna know that it's still awesome
cause I don't own it lol. Jk Mr Larry

[Demetrius]

Is be very happy to try out a Brentrup V-8. My brother has a stealth and
Quite honestly Id be happy forever with that. I could A. Have my brother
kidnapped and steal his stealth, or I can locate one for sale. I like all those
crazy models that Brentrup came up with. If the one at Carter was significantly
less $ Id be all over it.ive posted want ads looking for a very specific V8.
This one, if the owner of this came forward, I would buy it on the spot and
This thread would be finished!

148350

[pops1]

I agree and wish I could afford either the Stealth or V-8. Love the looks of both. Don't get me wrong I love my 23V, but oh boy those curvy others.

[Demetrius]

Someone emailed me and said at one point they purchased a V8 for $6800

[Demetrius]

I'm starting to lose my mind a bit so it's good for some cafe folks to keep me grounded.
Am I nuts for looking at this mandolin and blushing a bit? Only thing is it's laquer and has
no truss rod... But wouldn't that look rad my bro and I doing mandolin duets? Me on this
Ivory beast and him on his black stealth?
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- - - Updated - - -

[houseworker]

Get a Kentucky KM-150 from the Mandolin Store: https://themandolinstore.com/product/kentucky-km-150-mandolin-with-gig-bag/

Everything you're looking for and more.

[Demetrius]

Nooooo... You get a kentucky from the mandolin store...

[Mandobar]

............and I think we are about done here.

[The Musician's Wife]

Hi guys,

I'm debating on whether or not to start a new thread, but this one is especially golden.

As the wife of a musician - and one that is currently obsessing about/nursing an addiction with his mandolin search - I've decided to start recording the ongoing search in a blog. Somehow his search has captivated quite the audience (not only online, but the people he encounters in everyday life), and I figured I had a unique perspective on it to share. Tune in for narrative posts, video clips, and other random bits that chronicle his adventures - and sometimes woes - in mandolin hunting.

Let's face it. There is an inherent competition that happens when a man has both a passion (cough obsession cough) for the mandolin and an actual woman in his life. I am literally competing for bed space with Amanda Lynn...

Here's the link to my blog - hope you check out the first post and comment! An especially illuminating video clip is coming shortly...

http://themusicianswife.weebly.com/

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-Kate, the wife of a musician

[Austin Bob]

My personal experience is that as a musician, I strive for, but never obtain absolute perfection.

I want the same perfection in my instruments, and can quite literally become obsessed with my next purchase. Of course once I purchase said instrument, I am never fully satisfied, and often get a case of buyer's remorse.

As an example, I've always wanted a Les Paul, and finally bought one as a birthday present to myself, along with the required Marshall amp. It took me three months to pick out the one I wanted. I was not satisfied with the intonation (the bridge had to be in the extreme adjustment to be in tune), and ended up sending it back and bought another, more expensive model. The intonation is spot on. Same with the amp. Took the first one back because the tone wasn't quite what I wanted.

Long story short, I played it a bunch the first few months, but it's been over a month since I've taken it out of the case. The thrill of searching for it was much greater than the thrill of actually owning one.

Enjoy your search, it may be the best part.

[Mandobar]

If you need instruments to play gigs, they tend to get out of their cases more. I have a question, Demetrius, if you don't have a mandolin right now, does that mean you are turning down gigs, or are you borrowing a mandolin from somewhere? How are you practicing, or is that what's making you antsy?

[Jim Garber]

The amazing thing for me about our dear friend Demetrius is that, after playing mandolin for many years and owning some of the finest handmade instruments on this earth he is 100% mandolinless at this moment. I posted way back in this thread that I found this oddly amazing. I know some might find this ridiculous but the reason I love mandolins is to actually play them, to make music and to create lovely tones, to commune with others who play similar music. I wonder if The Search itself for the perfect mandolin has overcome the actual motivating factor instead of the reason for the search, that is to find an excellent instrument to play.

If I were Demetrius, I would at least have some acceptable instrument to play. Otherwise, by the time he finds the One he may no onger be able to play. At least borrow a temporary mandolin to remind himself of the joy of playing and the true reason for all this.

[MikeEdgerton]

...I know some might find this ridiculous but the reason I love mandolins is to actually play them, to make music and to create lovely tones, to commune with others who play similar music...

Whoa, you can play mandolins too? I thought they were just to have hidden away in a case to keep them safe. Why wasn't I informed? :cool:

[Demetrius]

There is always a beautiful Apitius...

[Mandobar]

Jim, my point exactly. It's like a bus driver without a bus, or an outfielder (baseball analogy) out on the field with no glove. In the Campanella thread he deems the builder as an amazing builder. Certainly, it would make a good "place holder" while he continues the search, but perhaps, as you say, the search has overwhelmed the purpose of the activity.

Sooner or later, with no practice, you lose your callouses.

[Demetrius]

So to answer the presented question. What am I playing now? Or how am I making my musical living without a mandolin?
Answer: My gracious brother just as I'm about to cry swoops in with is Brentrup Stealth and saves me for a moment.
He lets me use it for short spurts of time. A couple hrs or so when needed.
Then when I go home to a mandolinless home, that's when the dark hrs begin. lol
Thank God for Youtube mandolin videos!!!
Oh and the album bluegrass mandolin extravaganza! That keeps me happy during my daily travels.

[Demetrius]

Ummm why did my wife's thread get locked?
I don't believe there was anything of offense
posted on there. It was mandolin related, and simply
showing her perspective as the wife of a mandolin
obsessed husband. No profanity, no accusations,
or anything negativeness directed to any specific individual.
Locking somones thread for no informed reason is a
disrespect in itself. What a shame... it was light hearted
and she was playing off of that and adding humor to it.
Every comment made to me was appreciated very much.
I saw it all as part of my quest in finding my next mandolin.

[Demetrius]

P.S. Mandobar I was going to reply to your statement on the other forbidden thread,
But it was closed before I could do so. Anyhow, yes I probably will just pick something
up in the meantime. I sort of just lost my appetite for posting a whole lot more about it.

[Mandolin Cafe]

Ummm why did my wife's thread get locked?
I don't believe there was anything of offense
posted on there. It was mandolin related, and simply
showing her perspective as the wife of a mandolin
obsessed husband. No profanity, no accusations,
or anything negativeness directed to any specific individual.
Locking somones thread for no informed reason is a
disrespect in itself. What a shame... it was light hearted
and she was playing off of that and adding humor to it.
Every comment made to me was appreciated very much.
I saw it all as part of my quest in finding my next mandolin.

From the posting guidelines:

- Discussions started with the specific purpose or that end up used specifically for the purpose of antagonizing or calling into question a moderator's control of this forum or the site owner's right to enforce forum policy is forbidden and may result in immediate and permanent loss of membership and posting privileges. If you have concerns regarding forum policy contact a moderator or the site owner privately.

And now that you've ranted to my email in-box and demanded a phone call to explain policies that have been in place for close to 20 years, let me say continue to do so and publicly questioning forum guidelines and you'll be shown the door. Or leave if you wish. If you need to chatter with your spouse might be best you do it in the privacy of your home instead of dragging the forum around. We've had enough.

[Steve-o]

Scott,

While I agree that the OPs off-line response was inappropriate, I respectfully join with the other folks who were enjoying this thread and didn't find any of the discussion offensive or inappropriate. I hope we can return to a friendly discourse. Thanks for unlocking it.

P.S. I will continue to follow the blog site. I'm rather enjoying hearing about MAS from a spouse's perspective.

[Demetrius]

I think we have a unique community here, it's all about passion for a pretty special musical instrument.
We are all like minded in that way. I would like to publically apologize for my jumping the gun, and
Responding in a way that could easily be conveyed as inappropriate. That being said I apologize to
The moderators and mc ownership for the comment and hope you will accept it. And thank you for
returning the thread. Again, the search continues and I value every single comment made on here.
Believe it or not even though I portrey a lost soul without a mandolin I really am enjoying this process and have a lot of you to thank for it. All the best to the Cafe and cafe members.
Sincerely,
Demetrius

[August Watters]

. . .be aware that despite all the comments elicited by your video of playing ten mandolins, that video doesn't actually provide enough sonic quality for anyone to honestly help you.

Yes. And even with a high-resolution recording, the technology is affecting the perceived sound. mp3s are a lot better than nothing, but I don't think you're going to get more than a ballpark impression of the sound of an instrument this way.

And then there's the problem of picks: the pick in the photograph of Kate's blog attenuates the high end. They're good picks, I use them too, sometimes, when I want to attenuate the highs. But no one is going to explore the full range of an instrument's tonal possibilities with a pick that's reducing its frequency range.

[UlsterMando]

The thread continues . . .

[Demetrius]

August! How the heck have you been? Great seeing you chime in...
I agree videos are a tough way to capture the sonic characteristics of the mandolin.
And picks, thats a whole other story.
Oh no! Seeing your name has immediately brought my mind to bowl backs.
Hmmm maybe a bowl back should be tried???? :)

[UlsterMando]

:mandosmiley: Mas hysteria :mandosmiley:

Glad to hear that with your brother's help
you're not stuck for a mando in the meantime.
You take your time finding what you want !
This may be the only place on earth that
such mando-drama finds a ready audience.

The search continues . . .

[Demetrius]

Thanks Mando Unlster! You guys all rock!
I'm glad you're enjoying it, I'm enjoying it too.

[August Watters]

Oh no! Seeing your name has immediately brought my mind to bowl backs.
Hmmm maybe a bowl back should be tried???? :)

If bowlbacks are in your radar, your decision is about to get a whole lot more complicated. I've been serving as a consultant for a new store, opening soon in the South. That's as much as I can say for now. :whistling:

[Jim Garber]

Ah, thanks to Scott and other moderators for the cool heads that prevailed (especially here in the east where it is way too hot). If nothing else, assuming that this thread ever reaches a conclusion I think many of us would love to know what he ends up with.

[CES]

Check out the 2 point Monteleone that just dropped into the classifieds. Oh, if I didn't have a kid in college and another a couple of years away from college...

[Demetrius]

Id love to know what I'll end up with too...
It changes from moment to moment. It's really does,
But at the moment I'm highly considering a mint condition
Wiens F-5.

[Jim Garber]

Oh no! Seeing your name has immediately brought my mind to bowl backs.
Hmmm maybe a bowl back should be tried???? :)

No!! As one of the founding members of the Loyal Order of the Bowl, I consulted the rest of our esteemed board and you are forbidden to even consider a bowlback. Besides, you already rules out oval holed carved tops, why would you even consider... oh, never mind! :)

[Jim Garber]

Check out the 2 point Monteleone that just dropped into the classifieds. Oh, if I didn't have a kid in college and another a couple of years away from college...

My very favorite mandolin on earth is a Baby Grand but less ornate that than one but has the ultimate sound esp in the hands of its very capable owner who I know would never sell it.

I did play a fancy one like the one in the classifieds when one was at Mandolin Brothers and I hate to to say it but that one did not quite measure up to the one I know and love. I have played a few Grand Artists that did tho.

[Demetrius]

Jim you're probably right, I probably should open the bowl back can of worms.
The Wiens is really calling out to me
At the moment... I won't know until I try it but
That may be my next step in my
Quest.
2013 Wiens F-5
2016 Apitius Rosine
2004 Brentrup M23v
1992 Givens F-5 w/truss rod
1987 Givens A6 that I've already for a week.
Pretty great mandolin but not good for all applications.
Just very sweet to play.
1987 Givens A6

[Denman John]

I know that the 12th fret in Toronto has a new Apitius Rosine just in. As for the other Apitius in the classifieds, that one sold a few days ago :whistling:

[Steve-o]

I know that the 12th fret in Toronto has a new Apitius Rosine just in. As for the other Apitius in the classifieds, that one sold a few days ago :whistling:

12th fret also has a Heiden F5 with a tempting price.

[Demetrius]

Yes that is definitely on my radar

[LadysSolo]

I am reminded of the immortal words of Mr Spock (Star Trek) when he expressed the sentiment that even though it was not logical, wanting is more desirable than having. It seems that this may be the case here, where the chase is more desirable than having a wonderful mandolin......

[Demetrius]

Although I will admit I do like to chase, I really am at this point just looking for a mandolin
that'll inspire me. feel and tone are everything to me, and then esthetics. The mandolins on
that list are the ones I'm trying to decide from currently.

[darylcrisp]

not sure if this one would work for you, but I know a friend who stopped by and checked it out-and the Ellis before it sold, and he was enamoured with the Passernig F.

he had never played one, had heard only good things of them, and said it was probably the best mandolin he had ever laid hands on.
said it was beautiful in looks and extremely well set up.

and only $7500

http://www.smokymountainguitars.com/shop/mandolins/558.html

148410

just trying to add even more confusion:grin: to your life...................

[Demetrius]

Thanks Daryl lol
It looks lovely!

[Mark Wilson]

Have you considered getting a second or a beater for now? Ellis, Duff, Kimble, Passernig, Gibson MM etc

Something to nice to play while you continue searching for the one. :cool:

[pops1]

Demetrius, I have seen your list (very impressive) and I know you are agonizing over this decision. I also know it is hard to order a mandolin, play it and send it back, order another and try to compare them. Have you thought of discussing with all sellers and temporally buying all at once so you can have a few days with them all at once to make a better more informed decision on which one speaks to you. It might cost you less than trying to travel to each place and play them one at a time. This may sound crazy, but then........who knows. Just a thought.

[Jeff Mando]

Have you thought of discussing with all sellers and temporally buying all at once so you can have a few days with them all at once to make a better more informed decision on which one speaks to you.

I don't know of any sellers who would agree to this -- buy 5 mandolins from 5 separate dealers, knowing up front 4 will be sent back? Or maybe all 5.....that borders on abuse of the return privilege, IMHO. At least, if I were the seller I would feel taken advantage of, not to mention the risk to the instruments during shipping. Best not to mention this "strategy" on the front end.

OTOH, nothing wrong with going to Carter's (or wherever) and spending 3 or 4 hours playing everything in the shop. Then going to another place and doing the same thing.

The OP is an experienced player and knows what appeals to him. Something will stand out from the crowd.

[Demetrius]

Id spend three days at Carters and probably walk out with a guitar instead lol!

[UlsterMando]

OTOH, nothing wrong with going to Carter's (or wherever) and spending 3 or 4 hours playing everything in the shop. Then going to another place and doing the same thing.

This sounds like your best move.

[Demetrius]

She sure was pretty... but I don't think was ever played very much.
Can anyone chime in who has or had a M23V and how it changed tonally from when you first received it?
148413

[JAK]

Where's the Glichrist? Who has it NOW?

[pops1]

I posted before about a 23V, but it was a typo, I have a 21V. It had not been played much before I got it, it was bright on top and dead on the bottom. Refitted the bridge as I believe a new mandolin top will settle due to the string tension so the bridge was refit. Play, Play, Play now this same mandolin is warm in the highs and very nice in the lows with much sustain and balance. I am in the middle of prototyping some new strings for GHS and am waiting for the new heavier gauge of wound strings to come hopefully next week. They make this mandolin even better. In my opinion it has changed hugely for the better and I haven't found one I like better. I get MAS and play others, but I keep coming home to mine. The grass always seems greener until it is tasted then you know the sweetest grass is at home. For me, so far at least. I know there are mandolins out there that I will like better at some point, time will tell, but until I find one this is the one. It is very distressed with many gigs and thousands of hours of playing and it makes me smile every day.

[pops1]

Another note on the Brentrup, I left for ten or so days and took another mandolin as I knew I wouldn't get to play much and the environment wouldn't be great. When I got home the Brentrup had shut down, it of course opened back up with about 20 minutes of playing, but if the one you are looking at hasn't been played that is something to consider.

[Jim Garber]

The one Apitius I played had a very narrow neck, even too narrow for me and I prefer narrow necks (like 1-1/8" or even less) vs. wider (like 1-1/4"+).

As for mandolins that change over time... I am not a firm believer in that. I think the player is the one who changes. If you pick up a mandolin and play it for at least 30 minutes you should have a very good idea of the tonal qualities and potential. Yes, it can change with improved setup or different strings, picks etc. but I still think that if it is not close to what you perceive as your tonal ideal, then walk away. It might change some but not in a large way IMHO.

[grassrootphilosopher]

Although I will admit I do like to chase, I really am at this point just looking for a mandolin
that'll inspire me. feel and tone are everything to me, and then esthetics. The mandolins on
that list are the ones I'm trying to decide from currently.

For the record: What especially does inspire you? What tone are you looking for? What´s the feel that you want? And what is improtant aesthetically.

I know that I sometimes feel prejudiced in favor or against an instrument... What is it with you? Explain please.

[The Musician's Wife]

Hi All,

I've updated the blog recording my wonderful husband's adventures in mandolin hunting... There are a few especially interesting new videos to check out:

http://themusicianswife.weebly.com

Enjoy :-)

-Kate

[Demetrius]

I love that I get to share this experience with my sweetie...
She caught me lusting over a Bretrup V8 with my mum.
I think my mum liked it too. I really wish I could track a nice
used one of these at a good price.

[pops1]

I love that I get to share this experience with my sweetie...
She caught me lusting over a Bretrup V8 with my mum.
I think my mum liked it too. I really wish I could track a nice
used one of these at a good price.

Saw one at Carters if I am remembering right, 18K tho

[Demetrius]

Can someone please help me find this mandolin?
Maybe the owner would be willing to share their
thoughts on it, or maybe even willing to part with it.
https://brentrupmandolinregistry.wordpress.com/2012/04/05/2008-eclipse-v6/

[pheffernan]

And then there's the problem of picks: the pick in the photograph of Kate's blog attenuates the high end. They're good picks, I use them too, sometimes, when I want to attenuate the highs. But no one is going to explore the full range of an instrument's tonal possibilities with a pick that's reducing its frequency range.

I too find the Wegen TF140's to be bright (but oh so comfortable to hold). What pick(s) would you use or propose "to explore the full range of an instrument's tonal possibilities?"

[August Watters]

What pick(s) would you use or propose "to explore the full range of an instrument's tonal possibilities?"

On an acoustical level, I think what's needed is a pick that doesn't attenuate any part of the instrument's frequency range -- you can learn, in time, to do that with your technique, but if you start with a pick that's eliminating part of the frequency range, you're losing some of the sound up front. Sometimes you WANT to do that, for aesthetic purposes (I sometimes use the Wegen for Bach) but I think it should be conscious choice. And if that's your path, that's great -- nothing wrong with focusing on one set of possibilities over another; we all do it all the time.

I don't like most guitar picks for the same reason, plus the standard shape is not ideal for me. I like the Clayton Ultem picks (NFI) because the material is neutral enough not to absorb highs, and there's a small teardrop-shape for mandolin. But that shape isn't ideal either, at least for me. The small elongated pick by Dogal designed by Ugo Orlandi is excellent, and has recently become available from Strings By Mail (again, NFI). But they're designed for bowlback and the heaviest one is not heavy enough for most carved-instrument players. I suspect Blue Chip would be a good choice, except the shape and weight is all wrong for bowlback mandolin, which is what I play most.

So I don't have a perfect solution to recommend (for now). Marilynn Mair recommends buying guitar picks and cutting them down. I am however working with a manufacturer to address this problem, and expect to have an announcement soon. :whistling:

[Steve Sorensen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow_yvUzn3lk

:mandosmiley:

[Jim Garber]

I love that I get to share this experience with my sweetie...
She caught me lusting over a Bretrup V8 with my mum.
I think my mum liked it too. I really wish I could track a nice
used one of these at a good price.


Can someone please help me find this mandolin?
Maybe the owner would be willing to share their
thoughts on it, or maybe even willing to part with it.
https://brentrupmandolinregistry.wordpress.com/2012/04/05/2008-eclipse-v6/

I have a feeling that Hans only made a few of these. So far I have seen maybe 3 or 4. I wonder if Larry has a list of how many of these he made.

Frankly, that blackburst has been at Carter's for a few months (at least). If this is the dream of yours, why not contact them and work something out?

I assume that you contacted G. Fisher who, I think, owned this one?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta3bSRzReok

[Mandobar]

Make an offer. All they can say is "no".

[darylcrisp]

may not be the style you want or like, but here's another one

http://www.guitarrodeo.com/mandolins/brentrup-f-style-mandolin.html

maybe contact Hans himself, never know, he might have one stashed at home that he hasn't let go of.

d

[Jim Garber]

may not be the style you want or like, but here's another one

http://www.guitarrodeo.com/mandolins/brentrup-f-style-mandolin.html

maybe contact Hans himself, never know, he might have one stashed at home that he hasn't let go of.

d

OP seems to have ruled out oval holes, or at least he says that. Then again he mentioned bowlbacks but we are not allowing that. I have no control over the ruling board for oval holes on this case and so I refer that matter to the Mandolin Advisory Commission. :)

[Jim Garber]

I don't like most guitar picks for the same reason, plus the standard shape is not ideal for me. I like the Clayton Ultem picks (NFI) because the material is neutral enough not to absorb highs, and there's a small teardrop-shape for mandolin. But that shape isn't ideal either, at least for me. The small elongated pick by Dogal designed by Ugo Orlandi is excellent, and has recently become available from Strings By Mail (again, NFI). But they're designed for bowlback and the heaviest one is not heavy enough for most carved-instrument players. I suspect Blue Chip would be a good choice, except the shape and weight is all wrong for bowlback mandolin, which is what I play most.

I use jazz picks on mandolin for the most part these days, mostly BCs and ultems and the now discontinued (in the Gibson tradition) black Gibson small teardrops. In the past I also liked John Pearse jazz picks. At one point those were the favorites of Carlo Aonzo on his bowlbacks. Every player tho has his or her preferences and the mandolins and strings also dictate the best tone.

I tried the Dogal picks and did not like them for bowlbacks or anything else. Not only were they too small for me but they were a bit too soft as I recall.

[Mandobar]

I believe the oval hole at Guitar Rodeo was consigned by Hans himself

[Jim Nollman]

A few of us over here in the Pacific Northwest have lately been discussing the excellent qualities of the mandolins made by the Canadian Luthier, Alan Beardsell. Haven't heard any mention of him yet, in this thread.

[August Watters]

Every player tho has his or her preferences and the mandolins and strings also dictate the best tone.

I tried the Dogal picks and did not like them for bowlbacks or anything else. Not only were they too small for me but they were a bit too soft as I recall.

Fair enough, and agreed, we all find something different. But all of my Italian mandolinist friends I've asked (including Carlo), who have had the opportunity to study Ugo Orlandi's method, report that they departed from Ugo's path only after years of study.

To make an observation about trends: The Dogal picks are standard issue for Ugo's students in the Italian conservatories. To me, that makes them worth an experiment -- to see how the technique and tone develops with this tool. Another trend: looking at mandolin picks left from from the golden era, or representations of them in old books. You see a lot of teardrop shapes, narrower than guitar picks. Weights tend to be light by today's standards. My view is that you don't need a heavy pick to get all the bass response, you just need to cultivate the right hand.

My favorites are a few old picks I found in different places -- weights from .72mm to .86mm. Love the old Pettine picks!

[The Musician's Wife]

http://youtu.be/FTsZUGn3Pgg

In an act of final desperation, Demetrius' mandolin search is being put to a vote. Whatever mandolin gets the highest number of votes wins.

​-Gilchrist F5 (used)
-Gilchrist model 3 (used)
-Wiens F5 (used)
-Givens A6 (used)
-Brentrup M23V (used)
-Apitius F5 Classic

[JKA]

http://youtu.be/FTsZUGn3Pgg

In an act of final desperation, Demetrius' mandolin search is being put to a vote. Whatever mandolin gets the highest number of votes wins.

​-Gilchrist F5 (used)
-Gilchrist model 3 (used)
-Wiens F5 (used)
-Givens A6 (used)
-Brentrup M23V (used)
-Apitius F5 Classic

My vote would be buy a good Eastman and spend the rest on therapy🙂

[Sheryl McDonald]

>>In an act of final desperation, Demetrius' mandolin search is being put to a vote. Whatever mandolin gets the highest number of votes wins.<<

That means Demetrius hasn't met the right mandolin yet. :-)

[jaycat]

My vote would be buy a good Eastman and spend the rest on therapy��

Or donate to charity. Enough of all this one-percenter angst.

Sorry to sound preachy, but it is Sunday morning.

[UlsterMando]

[QUOTE=The Musician's Wife;1510202]
http://youtu.be/FTsZUGn3Pgg

In an act of final desperation, Demetrius' mandolin search is being put to a vote. Whatever mandolin gets the highest number of votes wins.

​-Gilchrist F5 (used)
-Gilchrist model 3 (used)
-Wiens F5 (used)
-Givens A6 (used)
-Brentrup M23V (used)
-Apitius F5 Classic[/

I was wrong, this is not a mando-drama, it's a soap . . . :popcorn:

[Josh Levine]

I think it's called "first world problems"

[Demetrius]

Isn't that the same thing?

[pops1]

Put the names in a hat and draw one out.

[KMaynard]

I've been following the thread from the beginning. However, I'm now wondering if this isn't just some sort of publicity stunt. With the addition of the wife and a blog, now vlog, all signs point to something else going on here besides trying to find a mandolin.

Just one bystanders opinion.

[Demetrius]

A publicity stunt? Really?

[Denman John]

Unplug for the day and go for a walk in the woods alone ...

My vote would be for the Apitius :mandosmiley:

[Demetrius]

How's that a publicity stunt? That's giving me way too much credit.

It's simple: I want a mandolin, I'm having trouble deciding, and my wife finds it slightly humorous, so (since she's an English teacher and enjoys writing), she decided to share the experience in a blog.

As far as myself, I find everyone on here incredibly helpful, and I love sharing this experience with you guys.

[Demetrius]

Thanks, Denman John. Yeah, that Apitius looks like a killer mandolin. Thanks for the vote.

[George R. Lane]

Can someone please help me find this mandolin?
Maybe the owner would be willing to share their
thoughts on it, or maybe even willing to part with it.
https://brentrupmandolinregistry.wordpress.com/2012/04/05/2008-eclipse-v6/

I visited Hans in the fall of 2008 and spent a few hours getting a shop tour and playing several of his instruments. I remember that Eclipse because of the tailpiece cover. At that time I wasn't much of a player, but that one had the sweetest tone and if I had the money I would have went home with it. Hans is gracious man to let a beginner play so many mandos and to explain how each of the 8 instruments were made and why he chose the woods for them. I explained that
I would not be able to purchase one of his mandolins, as I just was starting a new business and he said that didn't matter because he was happy just to talk about his mandolin and get any feedback from either a beginner or a professional.It just a shame he had to stop building. It is a great loss to the musical world.

[Steve-o]

I vote for the Wiens.

Ignore those negative comments. If folks are jealous or cynical, they should leave this thread alone. I've enjoyed it.

[Jim Garber]

Brentrup M23V (used) — that is my vote.

My reasons (if you need them):

I believe that you mentioned him as a builder more than any other
he is no longer building vs. the others who are still building
I am prejudiced in his favor as an owner of one of his and my favorite mandolin


Does the predictor of the most votes win something? BTW, Demetrius, I think you might consider a Mix/NewMad mandolin so you can play in the shower. :)

[JKA]

After therapy I would buy the Apitius (keeping the Eastman as a beater) because:
They sound great
They look traditional
They're made by a great luthier
You won't lose out financially
They have kudos
They are niche
You might discover it's the one
You might choose to fall in love with it
You'll become part of its journey and history (a copy of your wife's blog should accompany its travels)
You'll have fun playing it
You'll be inspired

Having read through the reasons why, I've just realised this applies to any of the aforementioned mandolins...oops

[pops1]

Without them all in my hand to play for hours and hours I would find this a hard decision too. Even if you call each seller and have them play into the phone and use a headphone on your phone for the best possible sound (however bad that is) it would still be a hard decision. You have chosen some wonderful mandolins and I believe you or anyone here would be very glad to have any one of them. Other than my post of the hat, you could play pin the tail on the mandolin and have some, if not a conscious, choice in the matter. Good luck.

[9lbShellhamer]

My vote is to buy none of them. :grin:

You clearly have the funds for the right mandolin whatever it is, but it's impossible to gauge which mandolin is your...soulmate, without playing it. Mandolins from even the same builder can sound different.

Taking a trip to Nashville and hanging at Carter's would be my vote. Wait until one BLOWS YOUR MIND, then buy it. Those are sure fire odds of buying, "the one", otherwise to be honest it's really russian roulette.

Quite often I've made a trip to Carter to play one, and it thoroughly underwhelmed me, only to have another I didn't suspect blow my socks off, then I go back a year later, only to have the make and model that once blew my mind feel lackluster while another mandolin seems explosive. The point here being, its about the individual mandolin in hand, not only the builder.


Enjoy the journey. :mandosmiley:

[red7flag]

I totally agree with Troy. What you get from this thread is the logical reasons a person would pick what ever instrument THEY prefer. But, as Troy stated, what you are looking for is a soul mate, not the soul mate of others. I would just continue the search. I have always been told if I have to think about it, it is the wrong decision. How do you know? You just reach in your gut and see if it feels right. My only mandolin buys that I regret were logical ones. But in the end, if it does not feel right, it just doesn't stick. This is why had to buy an Ellis for the second time. I listened to my defective reasoning and sold my first one.

[Steve-o]

I totally agree with you Troy and Tony. I think the voting concept was just for the fun of it (right Demetrius?). If it were my choice, I'd make a trip to Nashville just like you suggest and spend a long time playing as many high end mandolins as possible.

[Bob Clark]

I agree with Troy, as well. If you buy based on this poll, I think you will be back in the market in no time. I think it would be best to spend some time traveling to a few stores, playing a bunch of mandolins and letting the right one find you. In time, it will find you. Don't rush it. Really, you can't rush it. It happens when it happens.

Best wishes for a successful search,

Bob

[darylcrisp]

OK

D, buy my Northfield F5s. Take the remainder funds, and take your mom and wife on a nice quiet vacation, some old world town near an ocean. No computer, no cell phones, and take the NF. Play it, fall in love. Come home and soon you will be hanging out with Mike M, Emory L, and the other members in Michigan. You will advance into the Artist series and put my old NF in the classifieds, well worn and broken in , it will be grabbed up quickly. We will watch you in video as you play your englemann top, 5 bar Artist model. And it will sound great.

Nothing to fix, nothing to wonder about, you will finally be in your zone.

**and if you go against my advice, I vote Apitius**

d

[Demetrius]

Wow, some incredible votes here and definite fine words of wisdom.
I plan to respond to each suggestion, and comment on here for I am extremely
grateful for the time you've taken to post. Believe it or not, it helps and it makes it fun.
I love how's some of you are posting your votes and stating the reason why you
are voting for those specific builders. I loved the Hans Brentrup story.... Thank you so much for that. I have a story that I will share with you all of how I came
Across the guitar that I've been exclusively been my #1 acoustic guitar for 10 years.
I know it's regarding a guitar but I promise the story coincides with this Mando search.
Hey at least it's not a banjo story. Lol

[Demetrius]

I believe voting wise Brentrup and Apitius are in the lead.
These are two of the nicest guys in the world of lutherie...

[Josh Levine]

OK

D, buy my Northfield F5s. Take the remainder funds, and take your mom and wife on a nice quiet vacation, some old world town near an ocean. No computer, no cell phones, and take the NF. Play it, fall in love. Come home and soon you will be hanging out with Mike M, Emory L, and the other members in Michigan. You will advance into the Artist series and put my old NF in the classifieds, well worn and broken in , it will be grabbed up quickly. We will watch you in video as you play your englemann top, 5 bar Artist model. And it will sound great.

Nothing to fix, nothing to wonder about, you will finally be in your zone.

**and if you go against my advice, I vote Apitius**

d

... D has this thread flared up your own MAS?

[William Smith]

Its too bad about the Gilchrist, just wondering why you just didn't fix the binding and do the setup yourself,or had someone else do it for ya, every high end mandolin I bought/traded for needed a setup and its not all that hard to do it right, My 82 Gil I bought was terrible and my thinking at the time was why in the H did they send this to me like that, well I refit the bridge, adjusted the rod checked out spacing and bam, Heck of a mandolin. Maybe you already said and for that sorry but this is a long thread! I even got a radius fretboard mandolin with a flat bridge/saddle awful man, just changed it out. Now a dream. You mentioned that the Gil needed "waking" up or played well with the correct setup it would have been like night and day. Is the Gil back at Gryphons yet, to late to set her up yet? Just curious I guess.

[LadysSolo]

It can happen with any instrument - I had it happen with my current favorite guitar - I went to play two guitars, and one "spoke to me" as soon as I played it. I played some others, and the favorite was out of my price range. The second favorite was in my price range, and had the guy not taken my offer I would have been okay with #2, but he took my offer on the favorite, and I smile every time I play it. I feel the same about my mandolins, but they all have "grown on me," so to speak. I now feel the same about them too, they have become "soulmates."

[CES]

Can't recall if anyone has mentioned Giacomel yet. I played one at Gruhn's a couple of summers ago, and it could have been my "the one." It just came alive in my hands and blew my doors off. My wife, who's a musician who sings and plays piano but really could care less about my little portable instruments, paid attention to that one (it was the only one that really turned her head that day, between 3 stores and a couple dozen mandos). Then she saw the look on my face and was actually afraid we were going to leave with it. Believe me, I was crunching numbers like crazy. Unfortunately, my budget was only conducive to the National RM-1 that I took home from Artisan Guitars ;). Don't let the funky style throw you, they (the Giacomels) look positively gorgeous in person.

I agree that a trip to Nashville or maybe Elderly may be the best route for you. That Saturday was an education for me, and I'll totally agree that I was unimpressed in a couple I went expecting to love, and very impressed with a few I wouldn't have thought twice about had I not gotten them into my hands.

This MAS thing is a BEAST!

[Demetrius]

And just to think, I lived in Nashville for 7 yrs and of course I wasn't on a search for a mandolin that entire time.
In fact when I was 16 had bought a cheap Washburn mandolin while I was living in New England, just to mess around on.
I sold everything to move to Nashville and almost immediately revisited the mandolin. I was really just starting out
I rem bought the prototype Gibson F-9. Id go to the factory in Opry Mills and watch these mandolins being built and I was a kid in a candy store. Everyone there was so nice to me, and would let me try every mandolin they had. I rem seeing Nickel Creek doing a cmt appearance there, was anyone else there? Id spend a lot of time at Gruhn back then too but the selection wasn't what it is today. Maybe it was and they just had it all upstairs. I just wasn't plugged into that world enough then to know the difference. I rem they brought me upstairs and Ricky Skaggs was up there, and I was like hey where are the stratocasters at? I wish Carters had been around back then, but they were working at Gruhn still. Then again I would've mostly been looking at the strats. Anyhow I was telling my buddy about the latest mandolin video from Carters of the Gilchrist Model 3. Ive been eyeing that on the website and they finally put up a video. The cool thing is that was my first mandolin teacher "Marc Macglashan".. He's the guy in that video, he's still as awesome as ever. I still have all those old lessons on video that I recorded with my camcorder. Im just rambling right now, but all these comments about visiting Nashville has left me very nostalgic. Ive been back since but it was always just a quick through when I was on tour. Anyhow keep all the votes coming, and really explain why you think thats a good mandolin to go for.
Thanks,
Dem

[Charles E.]

Have you considered the new mandolins that Steve Sorensen is building? He is very much inspired by Hans Bentrup. His new "F" models are spectacular to look at and I have heard them played at the IBMA, first class all the way.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?124159-Introducing-the-Sorensen-VX/page2