Dobro mandolin

[Barry Wilson]

I was just offered this beast today. It was on consignment in a store I frequent and they ran in back to grab it when I came in the store hehe. here's some pics... it has had a cracked headstock repaired and one ding on back. sounds really good and plays great. case incl and so is the pick up though I never plugged it in

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn181/Pipeous/cid_0tNC0HnVWQBm9Q1sbSGM.jpg (http://s304.photobucket.com/user/Pipeous/media/cid_0tNC0HnVWQBm9Q1sbSGM.jpg.html)

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[Barry Wilson]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn181/Pipeous/cid_hbXdGqLor56ai6akuWjD.jpg (http://s304.photobucket.com/user/Pipeous/media/cid_hbXdGqLor56ai6akuWjD.jpg.html)

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[Barry Wilson]

Do you guys think $600 cdn is a fair price?

[Ryk Loske]

Here are some Cafe threads:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-24974.html

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-31965.html

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-33406.html

It looks pretty good and you say it plays well. Wandering through the threads it seems priced towards the high end. Wait and see what others come up with.

Ryk

[Barry Wilson]

Thanks. any idea how old this thing is?

[allenhopkins]

Do you guys think $600 cdn is a fair price?

I'd find $600 a bit high, but I have a near-identical one that I bought about 30 years ago for $250 -- so I'm judging against '80's prices. not really a fair comparison. Plus, you have a pickup and a really nice new case; my '30's model came with a chipboard soft-shell.

These Dobros, with their Regal-built bodies, often need neck resets; mine did. They're neat instruments, with a distinctive sound, much unlike the National resonator mandolins with their "biscuit" bridges. If you decide to buy it (you can always try to bargain, though that's harder when an instrument's on consignment), I think you'll really like it.

If that's a "B" prefix to your serial number, the Vintage Guitars Dobro serial number reference page (http://www.guitarhq.com/dobro.html#serial) says "1931-32." However, they admit that Dobro's serial-number "system" is, and I quote, "a mess," so how much faith you can put in that estimate is up to you.

[brunello97]

I'd find $600 a bit high, but I have a near-identical one that I bought about 30 years ago for $250 -- so I'm judging against '80's prices. not really a fair comparison.

According to CPI inflation calculator (for whatever that's worth ;)) $250 in 1986 translates to ~$546 today.

Spot on, Allen.

Anyhow, I'd drop six bills on one of these with a good neck and a solid case in an (Upstate) New York Minute. And I don't even want one......

Mick

[Barry Wilson]

I can't resist. MAS has hit again. I already told them I'd take it. I really liked the sound a lot. I can take it to the Abbotsford store I used to live above and he will set it up for free and such though for what I did it sounded nice.

I sold my car and put my bike in for service and new tires. after paying off my bills I have about $700 in mad money.. funny it actually wasn't for sale (the dobro). It was in for appraisal. That's what he told him it was worth so not much wiggle room. I might get a deal on the tenor guitar to offset ;)

[pheffernan]

They're neat instruments, with a distinctive sound, much unlike the National resonator mandolins with their "biscuit" bridges.

I've always wanted to try one for that very reason though, as with my RM-1, I think I'd prefer the more modern OMI iteration of the Dobro mandolin.

[Barry Wilson]

I bought it today. Got it for $550. Bryan said it's a 1984. It doesn't have a split bridge. The pickup is a Schaller (sp?). I will try that out this week. I don't care. I absolutely love the warm sound. I can't get over how amazing this thing sounds. I'll try and get a video up shortly. I'm having a hard time even typing right now. I played 4 hrs in the heat and gatorade and water didn't stop me from getting dehydrated...

it was an older gentleman selling it and he didn't want it to go to someone that would just flip it. Bryan told him I'd play it until they pried it from my dead fingers... I am going to gig this weekend with it. I imagine my pre amp will get lots of duty now

[mandroid]

Need for neck resets on those is pretty common, if its OK its a Good- one.



Electrifying those, properly, the pickup sensor is on the cone, not the cover. :whistling:

[Barry Wilson]

ok so I should unscrew the cover and put it basically inside? That metal top is 1 piece. That looks like a big job for next string change if that's the case...

[allenhopkins]

If by the "cover" you mean the little bar that arches over the strings at the bridge, I wouldn't mess with it. The coverplate, which is what the "metal top" is called, stays put throughout. You have to thread the strings under the bar and over the bridge saddle, which is annoying, but both Dobros and Nationals had that "bridge protector" or whatever you want to call it. On my old Dobro mandolin, it's soldered to the coverplate, so there's no removing it. Yours appears to be fastened on with screws.

The neck reset vulnerability seems to me to apply more to the old Dobro mandolins, rather than one from the '80's like yours. Mine (a 1930's model, as I said) needed a neck reset. The tech who did it said the neck block was made of "balsa wood" -- I'm sure he was exaggerating, but it apparently was a soft wood that didn't impart stiffness to the neck/body joint. Yours, made 50 years later, may not have the same flaw. Regal made many of the wooden bodies for Dobro -- both Chicago firms -- and many of those bodies weren't exactly marvels of immaculate crafts-person-ship. A 1984 Dobro may well have much better materials.

[Barry Wilson]

ok Allen, I was trying to understand what Mandroid meant by the pickup should be on the cone not cover. is the cone under the cover. Sorry if I don't understand. I am taking it to work with me tonight and could do that work there.

[allenhopkins]

There are resonator pickups, like the Schatten RG-03, (http://www.schattendesign.com/resonator.htm) designed to be attached to the cone; the Schatten goes on the center of the cone, as does the K&K Pure Resonator (http://kksound.com/products/pureresonator.php) pickup. The Highlander Model D (http://highlanderpickups.com/catalog/spider.htm) pickup, in contrast, attaches to the underside of the spider bridge, not the cone.

However, a more generic piezo pickup could be attached to the coverplate; you'd have to see how the tone it produces compares to the acoustic sound of the instrument. While the cone is the primary vibrating surface, there's doubtless enough vibration of the coverplate to energize a piezo.

Personally, I'd recommend using a microphone instead, but that's dependent on your gigging situation; if you need a lot of volume and feedback's a problem, experimenting with an external piezo pickup might make sense.

[Barry Wilson]

ok I understand now that I see the pics. Thanks so much. I wonder if this one would fit in there. I really appreciate the help. I will try this pickup first inside and order one up later. I would use a mic but then I'd need to use a mixing board as well to send to the harmonizer. it just makes things so much easier as I swap instruments around at the markets. partly why I never bring the tenor banjo even though I have a clip on condensor... I just use that setup for recording

[zedmando]

Do you guys think $600 cdn is a fair price?

That's what--about $75 US?

Kidding aside--it's a cool look.
I'm no expert--but based on other things I've seen around it seems a bit high.
But is it worth $600 to you?

[Jeff Mando]

That's what--about $75 US?

He ended up paying $550 cdn which is about $429 US. Looks like a lot of fun to me for $429.

[zedmando]

He ended up paying $550 cdn which is about $429 US. Looks like a lot of fun to me for $429.

It does indeed--but couldn't resist poking a bit of fun at my home country's money.

[Barry Wilson]

not sure what we will call the $5 coin yet. a foonie? The guys here at work get to see and hear most of my instruments. the first comment I got was wow that is quite loud.... and I was strumming with my finger... and agrees it has a warm sound... my the loar is bright with a cutting chop. this is a beefier sound for sure.

raz on bros. I was a hockey goalie for many a year so my skin is thick ;) .. I am tickled with this mandolin. I didn't bring tools to work on it tonight. changing strings on the mandola and setting that up instead. I didn't see the pics above until I got here.

ok one more question... do you guys dampen the strings with XXX between the bridge and tailpiece on these mandos? I have soft leather straps I normally use but I haven't tried yet

[allenhopkins]

...do you guys dampen the strings with XXX between the bridge and tailpiece on these mandos?...

I don't, but you could. Play it without for awhile, see if you're getting annoying overtones from the strings between bridge and tailpiece, dampen as needed.

The sound quality of a spider-bridge resonator mandolin is quite difference from a standard wood instrument; there's sort of an etherial "ring" that sustains for quite a while. I don't hear the unwanted overtones, but then, I have old ears...

[Barry Wilson]

I'll play it tonight as it is and take the little roland mobile cube amp to see how it sounds. I will test with and without pre amp and if I don't like the sound the pickup it will go under the cover. next payday I can order a new proper pick up but I am tapped out now. my motorcycle is getting a service done and new tire... my other favourite pastime. I made sure to have free weekends in July and August this year so I can go tour the mountains

right now I am liking the sound acoustically and I might have to start bringing my little mixing board so I have phantom. the mx8 is a single space rack and doesn't take much room. I just got myself a setup that is battery powered and I haven't used the eliminator power supply. if I use that I might as well drag the whole dang PA system around again LOL

[allenhopkins]

...my motorcycle is getting a service done and new tire... my other favourite pastime. I made sure to have free weekends in July and August this year so I can go tour the mountains...

Just be careful; here in Rochester NY, three young men have been killed in separate motorcycle accidents in the past week. Two collisions with automobiles, one case where the bike left the road at high speed, and hit a stone culvert.

Mandolins seem a bit safer to me, IMHO. Of course, I can't go very fast on my mandolins, either.

[Barry Wilson]

I don't city ride, well rarely. I hate that. I head out the country roads up to he mountains. I ride a cruiser... no need to ride like an idiot. I see guys cutting and weaving and think yup there's another statistic.. been riding for 41 years. I got the stupid out many years ago LOL. Heck I don't even like the #1 hwy. we call it the slab because it's long and flat. There's just something amazing riding past an old farmhouse and smelling them baking fresh bread, or the smell of a corn field (Chilliwack corn is legendary around here). I take a mandolin or ukulele along on rides. Sitting at a lakeside to play is refreshing

I still haven't plugged the dobro in. just enjoying playing it. they have some weight to them. it feels like you are holding something substantial. I don't care playing above the 12th fret is awkward. I rarely go up there anyway

[Barry Wilson]

Ok... one more question. I am going to change the strings tonight. Just a set of J74's to see how new strings sound but I notice the intonation is off. How the heck do you adjust the bridge? I see one screw behind the bridge. I assume you have to loosen that?

Thought I'd ask now before I go sleep. Then tonight I will start working on it.

I also checked some reviews and videos of that Oyster pickup. Sure makes a huge difference in sound where you place it... on the guitar video I saw anyway. Apparently just a piezo disc inside that cover. it is an older version because it is the chrome cap? I didn't bother unpacking the amp to try it. I played acoustic and was working the new strings in on the mandola

[allenhopkins]

...How the heck do you adjust the bridge?...

You don't, unless yours is much different from mine -- which, of course, is possible, since yours is 50 years newer. There may be some minimal bridge adjustment possible, but the bridge saddle has to sit in the center of the spider, and the spider's pretty much in a fixed position above the resonator cone.

It's a design problem with all resonator instruments I've played; there's almost no ability to relocate the bridge if intonation's inaccurate. You can lower the action by cutting down the saddle if the intonation's "sharp" up the neck, since that will reduce the amount of string stretching involved in fretting. But the difference will be small. I suppose, conversely, that you could raise the action if the intonation's "flat" up the neck, which should make the fretted notes sound a bit sharper.

Unlike other mandolins, and similar "floating bridge" instruments, bridges on resonator instruments have to stay put centered on the resonator cone. This is equally true for National-style "biscuit" bridge resonators.

Some small adjustment at the nut is possible, or replacing the stock bridge saddle with a compensated one built by an experienced tech. Experiment with different string gauges; maybe the J74's aren't what you want. Was the intonation equally bad with the old strings on? If not, can you buy strings of the same gauge as the old ones?

Good luck. Resonator instruments have their idiosyncratic limitations, same as other kinds.

[Barry Wilson]

I haven't changed the strings yet. I thought I would ask before I did. I also have a set of elixer lights sitting here. it is sharp at the 12th and the action is quite low now. It isn't terrible. so will lighter strings work towards fixing sharp at 12th or heavier?

your knowledge here has been a great help Allen. I can't thank you enough.

I am going to strip it down and clean it up tonight. I will look closer but it looks like I am going to be stuck.

Bike shop called today. I am doing brakes and front tire too, so that's it for toy purchases for a bit

[Barry Wilson]

I played the dobro today live for about 4 songs. the plug was wonky on that pickup. it didn't sound too bad even without the pre amp but the plug was a hassle. I brought the godin and plugged that in...

so I am going to see about one of those pickups you linked for me

[pops1]

Sometimes you can move the cone in it's well slightly to help intonation. It may be hard to keep it where you want it tho. The cone is very easily damaged so be careful.

[Barry Wilson]

OK my local music store can get me the Schatten $99 cdn or the K and K for $150. it can be here by the end of the week. I have zero experience with either so if you had a choice, what would you choose?

Thanks pops. I'll look closer when I install the new pick up

[pops1]

Both mount to the center screw of the saddle, that screw has a lot to do with the sound of the instrument by how loose or tight it is. You will most likely need a preamp if you don't already have one for either. I would make sure the installer is familiar with the dobro set up on the cone.

[Barry Wilson]

I will install it myself and I have an lr baggs gig pro pre amp as I use baggs radius on the om and mandola. So an inexperienced installer will be doing it lol

[pops1]

It's not that hard, just make note of the tension on the screw and try to get it back to sound the same. If I remember it will affect the plugged in sound slightly so if you don't like the sound play with the screw, but don't over tighten.

[Barry Wilson]

well I have my email open, trying to read more about these pickups. I think I am going with the Schatten I guess.

[pops1]

I think either would work fine, I use K&K, but I am sure the Schatten work work equally well.

[Barry Wilson]

I ended up ordering the k and k. they seem to be the most popular here and my guitar guys uses them on a few of his instruments. I also ordered a stack of elixir strings hehe. I like them a lot. All I use on guitars.

[pops1]

Let us know when you get it done how it sounds plugged in, way to go.

[Barry Wilson]

I got the email today my pickup is in. That was fast. I picked the motorcycle up from the shop. It started to rain as soon as I made it to the bus stop. of course I brought the open face helmet.... by the time I was coming home it was hailing lol. That stuff stings. And of course new tires and they say be careful the first 200 km as they can be slippery... bike runs great, more power, did my shocks too, front was too soft for my liking.

I pulled a 26 hr day yesterday to do that. At work now and I won't see the pickup until saturday afternoon. be nice if my strings showed up by then too. I know my mandola strings are already in...

[Barry Wilson]

ok, so is it common for the cone to be glued in? I picked up the k and k today and have to cover off. there was a spider web type of setup holding the bridge that was screwed to the cone. I was going to do an internal mount of the plug but I will have to use an exacto blade and cut around the cone to remove it. it doesn't appear to be centered either which might explain the intonation though I don't know about the hole underneath until I get the cone out

[Barry Wilson]

that was a huge job. 3 hrs of cleaning. I used adhesive remover to soften the what I believe was laquer. it was in the channel and up over the edge of the cone. Holy smokes. I had to go back and straighten the edges of the cone after and just took a break. I put the plug in the side near the back/bottom.

it looks to me that the cone assembly was changed at one point. at least I have about a mm of play now to move it back to help the intonation. the cover doesn't touch the cone at all, so I put 4 dabs of shoe goo for each corner to just tack it until I get strings on, then I can pull it into the position I need. I already wrote to my shop about it. The spider version (oddly enough I got both mounting sets in the box and 2 plug options

[Barry Wilson]

I haven't tried the pick up out yet. after I got it strung up and tuned I went to bed in the wee hours. But the intonation is good now at least. I was a bit upset at my findings but in the long run, I still love the sound of this thing. I put J74's on as I had 2 sets sitting here, though I do have 3 sets of elixirs ordered..

today is my day off. it's cloudy and looks like it might rain so I am donning the rain gear and heading out on the motorcycle. the forecast up north says sun so I am going to ride until I find sun and find me a lake or waterfall to enjoy some of nature's music.

have a happy father's day all. enjoy the day the way that makes you happy

[pops1]

Good work, the cone should not be glued in. If it doesn't stay try a piece of leather, or something to keep it where it needs to be to intonate. I am guessing someone glued it in because of rattles as is common with any cone instrument.

[Barry Wilson]

I'll take it tonight to work with the little roland amp and the baggs pre amp. acoustically I am quite happy. scratches and little flaws don't bother me as long as it plays and sounds good. I played it for a good 45 minutes last night when I got back from the ride. It turned out warm and sunny after all.

if the k and k wows me, I will look at getting a twin for the loar 600 next month or so. I just bought an 8 channel snake and getting a drum kit mic set today. this saturday we will wire up the music room for headphone monitors at the drummer's place. dang drummers make things more difficult

[pops1]

dang drummers make things more difficult

Always:whistling:

[Barry Wilson]

I honestly haven't plugged this thing in yet. But I have been playing it quite a bit. Really getting to love the sound. I know why the metal is tarnished/worn below the strings. I am finding I plant my finger in the same spot now. There is a very small area just behind the end of the neck I can play without the odd click of the pick. I even picked up some new round edge picks to try and that helped. It's forcing me to use better technique that I have apparently developed a bad habit over time digging in too much

and I ended up buying myself a Yamaha dtx450 digital drum kit. I made enough last week gigging to almost pay it. funny handing in $200 worth of rolled up loonies and toonies (canadian $1 and $2 coins). I said be thankful I left the quarters nickels and dimes at home LOL. Pretty cool little kit and I can play whenever. I still have the ability to go mic another drummer but I do play a bit and find it much easier to lay down a beat with sticks than programming a drum machine (I tossed mine on craigslist saturday night for a good price and got contacted 20 mins before my gig to buy it. Sold it 30 mins after I got home). I am not using drums on every song. Heck I just finished writing an instrumental jig that will be all mando family. The dobro is getting the big work in that. I had lyrics but I was jamming last night with the rhythm and decided to turf lyrics

[Barry Wilson]

Ran into a snag. I opened this thing up to change the pickup mount (too bright) and while I had it open I decided to find a way to hold the cone better. I cleaned up the glue in the groove and I saw my plumber's solder was the right depth from the outer lip of the cone to the cover. so I used shoe goo and glued a strip on the top outer edge... ok it fit and held tight. 8 of the 12 screws for the cover had stripped holes, so I cut the tips off toothpicks and glued them into the holes. so I have the mounting... all screws up tight

I put the strings back on and it is now unplayable. the bridge is too low. I guess the gobs of glue were to raise the cone. starting to feel I made a bad investment...

so now I guess I have to make a new bridge. I notice no offset on the bridge. I was thinking about carving an old saddle from an adjustable bridge to fit that slot. then it would have offset. the wood in the bridge looks like balsa LOL. I see the G string slot is quite deep.

I will take it apart again sunday because after all that work I just hung it up and grabbed another mandolin. I was recording some stuff this weekend past and really wanted to use the dobro. I should have left it alone and used a mic but I had to fix that pickup grr

[pops1]

I am not sure, but some resonators used a piece of felt under the cone, and you could raise it up with a new felt. Not sure how much it needs to raise, the felt won't be that thick so won't raise much at all, but will slow the noise. The saddle is usually maple and it is not hard to put a new saddle in. If your G string is very low it may be a good idea anyway. If that string is the only problem then you could file a V in the G string and make a maple wedge that will glue in the V and raise the G string up where it should be. It should fit very well before you glue it.

[Barry Wilson]

Thanks pops1, I will look at that this weekend. It's just the G string. I almost wonder if someone didn't try the glue in trick and it fell out while I was working on it.

It's just frustrating not being able to play it. Glad I just used J74's because I have to remove them yet again lol. I'll get it sorted. I think I have some strips of maple here too. Probably easier than carving that ebony. I was going to dig out the dremmel and citting discs.

[foldedpath]

I don't know much about Dobro mandolins but I've collected a few 1930's roundneck Dobros over the years (the metal "fiddle edge" ones were a favorite).

With most of them, I had to cut a new bridge to get the action where I wanted it. It's no big deal... just get some maple blanks and make a bridge/saddle that fits your playing style and the instrument's neck relief. There is a small amount of adjustment for intonation available in rotating the spider a tiny amount counter-clockwise, slightly angled like an acoustic guitar saddle.

Generally speaking, for best tone and volume you don't want anything between the cone's stamped edge and the rim where it's seated. Direct contact with no glue or felt is best.... usually. These old beasts are all different but that's what I found with the guitar models, especially the brass and steel metal bodies where it makes sense that you'd want direct metal-to-metal contact with the cone. These things were made to be loud, after all.
;)

[Barry Wilson]

For now I tossed a round toothpick under the bridge and it plays. action is still too low for my liking but I can play it up to 9th fret with minor buzzing. I searched the house and garage and have nothing left to make one with. I'll have to go to the music store. I might just make a trip out to Abbotsford and see my luthier guy.

[pops1]

Any old piece of maple will make you a new saddle. I think ebony or rosewood is not used as it would make for a harsher sound. I would think you could use any wood hard enough to keep the strings from cutting in, and around the hardness of maple. Another thing you might be able to do is flip the saddle over and cut new slots. Put the old slots on the bottom and reuse it.

[Jim Hudson]

Look up Rich Del Grosso, from Houston, he plays blues mando, often with a resonator mandolin and it sounds so perfect! I'd sure like to have one. Congrats, Enjoy!

[Barry Wilson]

I'll find some maple. I can't flip it because even a round toothpick underneath just raises it enough to be playable. I'd like a little higher action than that. I am about 1 or 2mm at the 12th. no truss rod so no choice.

I love seeing Rich play. He is amazing. I am recording an instrumental and I have mandola, om and mc so far. I wanted to do the fiddly stuff with the dobro. I just love the sound and finally have a decent pair of condensors to get a good sound