)McClung arm rest - really disappointed

[Bill Bradshaw]

Ok, now I know. Had a McClung arm rest on my mando for a few years. Took it off tonight only to see a very visible mark left by the cork on the back edge of the instrument. I couldn't rub it out but maybe a pro can. Maybe I didn't install it correctly, but I remember taking pains to make sure nothing contacted the back plate so as not to interfere with sound. I won't put one on any other mando I might ever own and won't recommend them to anyone else. It looked nice and kept my grubby arm off the rim, but better technique has negated the need for it.
I'll just suggest a soft long sleeve shirt for anyone I know who asks about the arm rests. Hopefully others haven't had this experience, and again, I recognize I may have installed it incorrectly or neglected to keep an eye on it. I just thought you could put it on and we're good to go. Cheers, Bill

[lloving]

IMHO all accessories that attach to the rim of an instrument using the method that the McClung arm rest uses has the potential of leaving a mark. Ie: carpenter jacks, arm rests, etc. Most, if not all, use cork as the cushioning element and, depending on the finish type and the pressure applied when installing, can leave a mark.
Try as I might I have not been able to keep my regularly played instruments pristine, so the mark, however slight, my McClung arm rest may have left on the back plate of my Weber Yellowstone HT is acceptable in the grand scheme of things.
I will install a McClung on my next mandolin if I find one I like better than the one I have.
My .02 worth

[yankees1]

Put it on and don't take it off and you won't see any marks ! Great arm rest !

[Emmett Marshall]

Although very minor, I got marks on my mandolins from arm rests also. They weren't very bad, or very noticeable, but it was a little bit of a bummer when I went to sell those mandolins down the road. I am certain that I didn't over tighten the arm rests. Fortunately, I only installed them on the less expensive mandolins I had at the time. I wonder if something like silicone rubber would be a better choice on those contact points? This comes to mind because I never had a tone guard leave any marks behind and that is what is used on those. I suppose there are folks who will never play without an armrest, so they don't care if there are some minor marks hidden underneath? If I was never going to sell the mandolin, I wouldn't sweat it either. Anyway, sorry that happened to you Bill and I can relate. I wonder how long it will be before someone comes along and says the marks are "our fault" because we didn't install the rests correctly or something? :))

[MikeEdgerton]

Some people get marks from armrests and Tonegards and some people don't. Probably as much the finish on the instrument as it is the material used to pad it.

[Northwest Steve]

I had a McClung arm rest on a mandolin. I really liked it. Did it's job and matched the mandolin very well. Is your mandolin a varnish finish? I would expect some witness mark from any accessory I would put on a mandolin. I think your headline is unfair to the maker.

[MikeEdgerton]

Actually there's more discussion about armrest marks than I thought.

https://www.google.com/search?q=armrest+damage+site%3Amandolincafe.com&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

[Petrus]

Maybe a leather caul contact point. Leather is often used on luthier tools like clamps and such. Rawhide I suppose, not dyed.

[JFDilmando]

I have seen both marks and no marks.... unscientific observation : Old finishes generally stand up with no marring while newer finishes that have not "cured" for years can be damaged more readily. I will say one thing : put an arm rest on, and leave it on, and even with the possibility of that small mar on the back, it is so much better than all that worn area on the front that will result without an armrest.... one of the MOST worn areas on any vintage instrument is that area that often is worn down to bare wood.

[bigskygirl]

Seems to me something kept on your mando for "years" could leave a mark...

I don't think it's right to call out the McClung for something he warns about and is pretty well known...$0.02

[George R. Lane]

If you want to keep it in like new condition, don't ever take out of the case. I have a McClung on my Yellowstone and yes it left a mark, but that is a minor problem compared to the positive affect it has for my playing comfort. Sorry you had a bad experience with it.

[pops1]

I am sure there will be a mark should I take it off, but after years of gigging and thousands of hours of playing I doubt I will notice it next to the play wear. It makes the mandolin sound better by keeping my arm off the top. When I showed my mandolin to the builder he said "people bring their mandolins to me all the time and they look like they don't play them, I can tell you play this, I build them to be played." I have worn most of the finish off the back of the neck and most of the stain too. It's not even like a speed neck, and goes most of the way up the neck. It's what you would really call distressed and yes I will see the marks from the arm rest, but I won't care because I bought it to be played and play it I did. I has been a wonderful instrument and I have no intention of selling it.

[Ron McMillan]

Almost a consensus of views - that's a change. And I add to the consensus. If you need it to stay pristine, leave it in the case. The armrest is almost bound to have some effect on where it rests (if you are careless and let the adjusters rub against the sides like one member of our forum who will surely chip in soon :) you can 'blame' the armrest for that, too), but the damage to the finish is minor and doesn't come close to outweighing the advantages of using one. Whatsmore, if you leave the armrest on, you can't even see the change to the finish.

[Ivan Kelsall]

There are a couple of factors important here. 1) What's the finish on the mandolin ?. 2) Is the McClung 'cork' natural cork or reconstituted cork (cork made from cork 'bits' stuck together with some form of adhesive) ?.
Natural cork is very inert in itself & won't react 'chemically' with the finish. The bonding adhesive in reconstituted cork might not be as polite !. If the finish on a mandolin is comparatively 'softish',such as i believe to be the case with the Eastman mandolins,then you might be in for double trouble if the cork is reconstituted & the finish is also 'softish'. In the case of a 'softish' finish,then i can't imagine any arm rest NOT leaving some sort of mark over time.
I have to admit to being a bit OTT when it comes to caring for my instruments. My 8+ year old Weber's finish is pristine & my Lebeda,which i bought used isn't far behind. My 'used' Ellis "A" style has the dings & scratches & a screw hole in the neck courtesy of it's previous owner. I'd be concerned about any marking left by an armrest & i'd be tempted to remove it on ocassion to look for any marks - one single mark = gone !. If i ever came to sell any one of them,any marks 'might' reduce it's value,
Ivan;)

[Nick Gellie]

Have you considered that sweating with out an armrest might cause the finish to go cloudy? I have an armrest on my Black A2 and Gray A-5 and the armrest raises my arm for a great picking action. The armrest is likely to stop more wearing out of the finish than a little where the armrest touches the mandolin finish.

[Doug Edwards]

Bill I'm sincerely sorry you have a problem, but don't blame the McClung. It's was the viola hardware in your case. I'd had some reports from a few users of the same problem before switching to leather on all contact points. As others have mentioned it varies from type of finish and the imprint can be buffed out in most cases. I draw consideration to potential finish issues in the instructions included with the armrest and on my FAQ (http://www.hillcountrystringworks.com/FAQ.html) website page.

You know just about anything in contact with the instrument has potential to leave some kind a mark,including straps and tuners.
My current player for the past 4 1/2 years has all kinds of damage from being constantly played. I have no damage from the armrest and the viola clamp, which I have not changed the cork on. As others have mentioned the benefits out weigh the potential finish issues.
146100

[Bill Bradshaw]

Ok, I probably over reacted a bit, but it was unexpected and disappointing to see the mark. My mando has blemishes but this one became the biggest and most obvious. It's a varnish finish and it sounds like it can be buffed out. Sometimes I skip over the big print. Anyway, those arm rests look and function really well and lots of folks love them, mark or no mark. If anybody asks I'll mention it's a possibility and tell them to read the instructions. In the meantime, my apologies to the folks at McClung.

[Marty Jacobson]

It would be good to mention that armrests are installed by the end users, in most cases. And end users tend to over-tighten these. In fact, people in general tend to over-tighten everything on the assumption that tighter is more secure, which is not always the case.

[George R. Lane]

Marty,
Thanks for that information. I have mine on just tight enough but, not so tight that I can't pull it off easily by hand. I also used a piece of Elk hide (no I didn't shoot it, got from a taxidermy shop) and placed it so the barrel adjusters didn't hit the sides and possibly make an impression.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Hi Nic - I've played my mandolin in warm weather without anything between my skin & 'it', & it's pretty uncomfortable,so these days i don't do it. I either wear a long sleeved shirt,or,during the summer,i'll use a tennis style wrist sweat band.
As Doug Edwards mentions,IMHO,leather is the most suitable material for the 'pads'. Also,the only time i used an arm rest on a previously owned mandolin,if i'd put a piece of leather between the side of the mandolin & the 2 turnbuckles as George did,i wouldn't have suffered the damage one of the turnbuckles did to it. It pressed against the varnish & flaked a tiny piece off. It was smaller than a pinhead,but it was enough,
Ivan

[colorado_al]

I've used McClung armrests on many mandolins, and I have no idea if they leave a mark because they are never coming off. As far as I'm concerned, they are a permanent part of my mandolin. I have sold a few of my mandolins and have asked the buyer if they would like the armrest with it, and most do. The one that I sold without the armrest had no marks when I removed it, but it was a nitrocellulose finish. You could still tell where the armrest had been, since there was less wear on the surface that it protruded over. So, I guess there will always be a tell in some way. Anyhow, I'm supper happy with the McClung armrests I have.

[HoGo]

Varnish - especially spirit or french polish - will take imprints from ANYTHING if left on too long and under pressure. Some types of leather may contain oils or other chemicals that will react even with other very durable finishes, same holds for some types of cork. I believe pure natural cork - sliced directly from bark of the tree, not the one made out of small particles, is the best alternative.

[dhergert]

I've got one of the simpler ebony armrests on my 2002 F9. I'm sure it will leave a mark, as the finish was applied intentionally thin to these instruments. But I never intend to remove the armrest, just as I never intend to remove the ebony pick guard that I installed shortly after receiving the instrument. The original owners left significant pick marks on the top, not quite to the point of lifting the finish, but scarred beyond easy repair. A pick guard not only prevents me from doing the same, but it also covers what was already there. The armrest also plays both of these roles. And, the tone guard also helps protect the finish of the back of the instrument.

All three of these accessories prevent direct body contact with vibrating surfaces, so they also improve the tone and power of the instrument.

There are some things we can't avoid if we're going to take the instrument out of the case. The dog's nail scratches on the top from that one unexpected jump onto the couch, the playing wear of the finish on the back of the neck from hours of jamming, the old marks on the top probably from nudging the bridge without loosening the strings... These are all things I can't undo. But I still love the mandolin.

Sometimes it's the marks, and how they got there, that make the instrument more valuable to the owner, too. In the case of my dog scratches, I'll be missing that dog one day, and then those scratches will take on special meaning.

Do what you can to protect the instrument, but ultimately, make music and memories with it.

-- Don

[sblock]

Everything eventually leaves some kind of a mark! If you have no armrest, your hand and arm will leave a mark. Your playing will also leave other small marks. The finish protects against some of these, but not all. Newer finishes, especially the evaporative finishes, like nitrocellulose lacquer and particularly varnish, can stay just a bit soft for months (up to years!), and these can move slightly under constant pressure. Or the area can be rubbed off, if there is any minor chafing. This is not a chemical reaction to anything found in the armrest (leather, cork, etc.) -- it's purely mechanical. Also, the finish may become slightly cloudy, and this IS chemical. The color in the wood stain can also change a bit, due to different levels of exposure to UV light (the color will stay darker when hidden from light).

Chalk it all up to minor wear and tear, and keep on playing, I say. Instruments are designed to be played, not just admired. None of this affects the tone, the lifetime, or the integrity of the instrument. And keep your armrest on, so you'll never see the marks, anyway!

Most of us love our armrests, and don't react as you did. Ditto for ToneGards, carpenter jacks, pickguards, and other useful accessories. Also be aware that your clip-on tuner might leave a mark, too!

[Buck]

I have seen both marks and no marks.... unscientific observation : Old finishes generally stand up with no marring while newer finishes that have not "cured" for years can be damaged more readily. I will say one thing : put an arm rest on, and leave it on, and even with the possibility of that small mar on the back, it is so much better than all that worn area on the front that will result without an armrest.... one of the MOST worn areas on any vintage instrument is that area that often is worn down to bare wood.That's a matter of opinion. I'd much rather see the natural wear on an instrument than a mark from an armrest, whether guitar or mandolin. Then again, I don't like the look or feel of arm rests, so I have nothing to lose by not liking the dents.

As others have said lacquer or varnish can dent, especially if the armrest is installed when the instrument is new and the finish is softer. Most poly finishes are unlikely to show a mark.

[Gary Leonard]

To the OP, imagine what the mark would have been without an arm rest. A few years of dragging your arm around the edge probably would have made a much larger mark!

Love them, all my mandos will have an arm rest.

[Bill Bradshaw]

To the OP, imagine what the mark would have been without an arm rest. A few years of dragging your arm around the edge probably would have made a much larger mark!

Love them, all my mandos will have an arm rest.

Yes, you are right. Experienced that with an old Gibson A.

[Billy Packard]

Here's another anecdotal story...I have stayed in touch with Steven Gilchrist since I got my A3 in 1993. I saw him last in 2010 in Nashville where I asked him if he would take my mando back with him and rub out and repair various minor dings and one larger skid mark from trying to re-locate the bridge. He stopped short of saying a flat "no" but told me he liked the way the mando looked and it was obviously loved and used which is why he made it. I know pristine, unplayed instruments are worth more money but I would rather have one that was well played in and sounding great albeit a few dings. Having said that I will add I've been freaked out at how some of our mando-heros have trashed their historic instruments with poor technique!

[Bernie Daniel]

Seems to me something kept on your mando for "years" could leave a mark...

I don't think it's right to call out the McClung for something he warns about and is pretty well known...$0.02

Agreed! All brands of arm rests that clamp on could do the same thing.

I've used McClung arm rests for years never had a problem even if it did end up leaving a mark it would be under the arm rest -- it's kind of like a scuff under base of the bridge. Do I care?

[DiegoInSeneca]

Was going to town on my mandolin for days, and then found a mark on my wrist. Don't believe it can be removed, but perhaps I can sandblast it out. Meanwhile, installed a McClung and it's much more comfortable to play. Meanwhile, my wife hasn't seen that dent on my wrist ... maybe I can hide it so she won't have a fit. ;-)