thinking of 'improving' my a-40

[fentonjames]

i have a 1963 gibson a-40 that i don't ever really see myself getting rid of (the one sam is holding in my profile photo). the bridge is leaning big time (worn post holes), so i'm replacing it and obviously keeping the old one.

my question...

what about the tailpiece?

would a modern cast type improve the tone/volume/etc of it? not that it's bad or anything. just that at this time when i'm going to change the bridge and restring, it would be a good time to change the tail too. obviously i'd keep the old stamped gibson one.

what would you do? leave it be, go for it? any recomendations? has anyone done this to an a-40 before?

thanks in advance,

jim

[f5loar]

You can regrad those thick 2X4 tone bars inside to help give it better and likely very louder sound. That will do way more than any tailpiece you could put on there. After all, it's about the same tailpiece that it is on a Lloyd Loar F5. A good nut job could help too. The bridge you want to replace needs to be seated tight to the top.

[fentonjames]

regrad?

[f5loar]

Regraduation of the tone bars. You would need to take it to a luthier that has been there, done that to a mandolin. Many have had this done to the Gibson mandolins (all models) of the 40's to 70's. What made those old 20's Gibson mandolins sound so good was the thin tone bars. You can take your finger inside the top F hole and feel your tone bar on the top. You need to remove the back to shave down those thick bars.

[fentonjames]

interesting. i'll have to think about that. sounds expensive.

[Mandoplumb]

I'm sure some will disagree but this is a form for opinion so I'll offer mine. There are 2 or maybe 3 things that a new tailpiece can do (1) change the appearance, good or bad is matter of opinion, I like the traditional look (2) makes changing strings easier, those original TP can be a pain (3) help you dispose of some money if that stuff is backing up on you, I've never had that problem.

[AlanN]

Tom is right. The biggest impact to sound will be a tone-bar shaving. Not sure sinking big $$ into it will get back too much. I have A-40 #68386, which I dig, bought at Mandolin Brothers in 1978. It is what it is. The original bridge cracked on mine (one of the feet), I replaced with a standard one I had lying around, not perfect but is playable. Dandy neck on that feller.

[MikeEdgerton]

If you don't want to have a luthier open it up for regraduation then at least change the bridge out with a properly fitted bridge, have a new nut cut, frets dressed, new strings and invest in a tone-gard. That tailpiece change will yield about as much change in the sound as putting a different strap on it will.

[fentonjames]

thanks for all yall's input!

[allenhopkins]

...A good nut job could help too...

Probably true.

However, all the "nut jobs" I know around here are pretty unhelpful...

[AlanN]

I'm curious as to the serial #. And is it stamped on the back of the headstock?

[fentonjames]

yes it's stamped on it. 127xxx

[fentonjames]

weird thing. i've been using a ultex 1.0, the round part. for whatever the reason, today i played with a d'addario NYLPRO 1.14 and used the point. the volume and tone difference astounds me. i guess i'll explore thicker picks.

[f5loar]

Better watch out on finding your ultimate pick, or you could just break down and buy you a Blue Chip 40 or 45 and see how you life will change with the stroke of one pick on those strings. I'd rather have a Blue Chip pick than a new tailpiece.

[Ivan Kelsall]

In my opinion,depending on the build of a mandolin,a 'cast' tailpiece 'might' help in adding a bit of extra sustain. I suspect that the lighter the build,the more you could expect - up to a point. I had a Michael Kelly mandolin,Asian build & a very light build indeed. The 'tin' t/piece was the stuff of nightmares & i swapped it out for an Allen cast t/piece.The t/piece did add a 'degree' of extra sustain,in fact thinking about it,it added all the sustain the mandolin ever had. With the old tin monster,it hardly had any sustain at all.
F5loar is pretty spot on as well with his comment on 'picks'. It took me 9 years to find a pick that really does things for my mandolins. After trying many picks (as we do), i find that the Dunlop ''Primetone'' picks to be the very best 'for me'. Others have found them to be very good as well. The improvement in volume using them is still amazing after close to 12 months of use,
Ivan;)
http://www.jimdunlop.com/product/primetone-semiround-print - Dunlop 'Primetone' link

[lenf12]

interesting. i'll have to think about that. sounds expensive.

It would cost you approximately the value of your mandolin. I had a regrad done to my '56 F-12 back in 2008 by Randy Wood and the results are phenomenal. It is a more expensive mandolin however so to me it was a worthwhile investment. I don't think it would be worth it for an A-40 imho. It would double your investment in the mandolin without doubling its value.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[texaspaul]

I installed an Allen TP to a 1964 A40 and believed it help with some sustain an enhanced the tone. However, when I prepared the mandolin for sale and re-installed the original TP and found that most of my perceived positive changes had more to do with awakening a long unplayable mandolin than the tailpiece. A friend who owns the mandolin now plays it a lot as her giging mandolin and it sounds great. It's still has he original tail piece.

[fentonjames]

thanks texaspaul. that was the ultimate answer i was seeking, from someone who's done it before.

[stevedenver]

My simple thought
If the mandolin is properly set up, then
You face the choices of, as F5Loar has sagely advised, invest in the mod,
Or, move on to a mother

save your money and sanity, and make up your mind to save and buy another that suits your ear and hand.

I say this not to be discouraging, but rather, in my long years of tinkering and buying instruments, , I long ago learned that one needs to have 'good bones' in order to improve an instrument. All too often it is easy to sink money in, loving the look but wishing for more, make it just so,, etc., make it non-original, and have more or less what you started with.

My two cents for saving money would be a set up, good bridge and nut and likely heavy strings if you can tolerate them. Those 60 gibsons were way overbuilt and are by and large, a bit dead, if indeed suited to combat use......

[fentonjames]

thanks stevedenver. i totally see your point. like i said elsewhere in this thread is that i'm going to explore picks more, as the difference between what i was using and what i used yesterday were staggering. the tone was there, volume too.

[fentonjames]

so, i wound up trying v picks. awesome, there is a big change in tone and volume and, it's easy to adjust volume from soft to loud.

[soliver]

If you want to play around with picks for a minimal cost (about $7.00 shipping) I would recommend you get on the list to receive the Traveling Pick Sampler. http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?117767-The-Traveling-Pick-Sampler-Anyone-Interested

The sampler currently has a very extensive supply of stuff that folks have added to try... for example: 2 Bluechips, Wegens, a load of V picks, just about ALL of the Dunlop Primetones, and many many more (44 total).

It was a highly educational experience for this newby!... I really learned firsthand how different types and thicknesses of pick effect the tone and volume,... as well as why the Bluechips are worth what you pay for them (amongst other pick related lessons)... it was great and all it cost me was the shipping to send it on to the next guy on the list.