playing other stringed instruments [Archive]

spufman

Mar-01-2016, 5:14pm

My main instrument is electric bass, started in '78 or so. I devoted 2014 to finally becoming 'adequate' on mandolin to the expense of other instruments, because I wasn't getting there by having it be just another thing I occasionally played. It was important to me as I simply love everything about mandolin. It worked and my bass playing didn't suffer too badly; my guitar playing did.

Now I tend to take one of each out every night and swap around amongst them. I've definitely lost a little on mandolin by taking away that focus, but I really enjoy the multi-instrumental aspect. Happy on guitar again, but my lap steel playing still stinks on ice - that would require another long-term focused effort that I am hesitant to start. I'll always be a simpleton on steel, but it's still fun.

I love a home filled with lots of choices!

Jim Hudson

Mar-01-2016, 5:21pm

I'm sure most posts will recommend dedicating some time each day to each instrument so that you will build muscle memory and strength. I also play guitar and mando. That said, from a practical standpoint, I'm only able to focus on one at a time. I'll practice with whatever instrument my next gig is. Not enough time to play 1 or 2 hrs on two instruments. Truth be known, I get lots more calls for mando - everybody plays 6 string. In a band setting you may play some songs with each instrument. That's ideal because you can rehearse on both and try to add material on both. The problem is establishing and keeping the band together ... Good luck LL.

farmerjones

Mar-01-2016, 5:31pm

Add a banjer, fiddle, and a piano to the choices.
I wanna hear this song on that instrument. So I play it. Maybe i'll switch instruments. Maybe i'll switch songs. There's just something about cranking it out on a real, honest-to-Pete instrument, that you don't get from some recording. It's Joy. And I don't care if I'm by myself or in room full of people, it's gonna happen.

bingoccc

Mar-01-2016, 6:36pm

My arsenal is a 6 string acoustic guitar, 12 string acoustic guitar, a tri-cone resonator in open G, a Strat, an electric hollow body, a mandolin and I may even monkey around with a harmonica. My Martin HD-28 gets the most of my attention. Otherwise it's what moves me at the moment. Sometimes it's the same tune, sometimes there is no rhyme or reason.

CES

Mar-01-2016, 7:51pm

With mando, bass, guitar, OM, banjo, and the Mandobird and Tele I have a similar variety of choice. I head up our youth praise band and have played all of the instruments depending on what we need on any particular service. My focus shifts depending on what I'll be playing on Sunday, but I typically learn guitar and bass parts at a minimum so I can help out the other guitarists if needed. I've found that making myself learn any new song on guitar on mando as well has expanded my mando chord vocabulary substantially.

That said, I'll shift focus based on my interest, and won't let mando get out of the rotation for very long. Probably not helpful, but that's my unstructured state of existence...I'm also more diligently studying theory and trying to learn my fretboards better, which is useful on all of them...

Mark Miller

Mar-01-2016, 7:57pm

I started mandolin as a second instrument but loved it so much I barely touched my guitar for six months. Since then I've tried to keep going on both but time is a problem. I'm not systematic about it. Basically I follow my enthusiasm. I got back into fingerpicking country blues and remembered how much I love my Martin OM-21, so for another few months I barely touched the mando. Then I got together to jam with some buddies and dusted off the mandolin and it was so much fun I got rolling with that again. Since then it's gone back and forth a bit, but I try to devote at least 15 minutes or so to whichever one is on the back burner. That's enough to prevent major erosion of skills, so when the pendulum swings back it doesn't take too long to get back to where it was. I think this works better than half an hour per day for each, which wouldn't be enough to make any progress on either.

SGraham

Mar-02-2016, 1:21am

Hey Lonesome, why not pick up a tenor guitar? It's a guitar but uses mandolin-style fingerings. You'd have the best of both worlds.

Bob Visentin

Mar-02-2016, 4:46am

I started playing mando in the 70's because everybody else played guitar. Then I got a some work witha bluegrass band that needed a bass and made enough money to buy the bass I was borrowing. Realizing that almost every band has a bass player but very few had mandolins I switched and ignored the mando for a long time. The last 2 yrs I've meet a couple who play bass and guitar so I have played way more mandolin but only casually. Still play elec. bass on stage. When I practice alone it is mando. when I have band practice or gig it is bass. I just got a mandola today!

Tobin

Mar-02-2016, 8:45am

I've been struggling with this issue as well. Between mandolin/mandola, fiddle, banjo, and guitar, there's just no way to spend quality time on all of them when my schedule only allows for about 1 to 2 hours of playing each evening. I have spent about 8 months trying to focus on the fiddle, and my mandolin picking has suffered. Then the banjo bug that has held me for the last 3 months has made my fiddle playing suffer. I've tried rotating through each instrument, focusing on one each night. But that's not enough to really keep my mandolin chops up to snuff (since it would only get played every third or fourth evening, which is only twice a week at best!).

Such is the curse of being a multi-instrumentalist. If you only have two instruments to focus on, it should be easier. I'd recommend only playing one of them per session, and spend good quality time on technique. You'll get more benefit from that than trying to switch between them in each session. But that's just my opinion.

John Flynn

Mar-02-2016, 8:57am

I started on guitar, but now I mostly play mandolin and OM. But I've also picked up tenor banjo and lap dulcimer along the way, as well as harmonica. I never think in terms of how I should divide my practice time. As the OP said, that would drive me nuts.

For me, it's always about how I want to contribute to a tune. I play at church every week and tunes will come up on the list where I will just say to myself, "That would really sound better on (guitar/dulcimer/banjo/harmonica) instead of mandolin."

I took a workshop with Roger Landes once where I asked him how he keeps multiple instruments and tunings straight. He said he does it all with repertoire. If he learns a tune in GDAD on the bouzouki, that's the only way he plays that tune. If he learns another tune in GDAE on the mandolin, that's the only way he plays it.

So I think making it about the music you are going to play naturally sorts the problem out. If you want to get better at guitar, find tunes you're really psyched to play on the guitar and likewise for mandolin.

In addition, something I find fun is transferring techniques. When I used to just play guitar, I never did cross-picking, tremolo or double stops. But after years of using those techniques on mandolin, I've been able to transfer them back to guitar. Since I picked up the dulcimer, I've transferred some dulcimer-like techniques to the OM. The main thing is to be having fun with it and not stress over "rationing practice time."

darrylicshon

Mar-02-2016, 9:07am

I studied classical violin in the early 70's but i play mandolin every day if i can. Sometimes i play my OM or one of my solidbody ones. I hardly play guitar i need to play more but pick up the mando instead. A few months ago i bought an acoustic violin cause i only had electric ones, but i have only played it a few times. I need to rotate thru the 3.

UsuallyPickin

Mar-02-2016, 9:45am

farmerjones

Mar-02-2016, 12:05pm

Well .... whenever you learn a tune learn it on both instruments. 1. Learn then record your own rhythm tracks 2. Learn the melody simply on both instruments 3. Start adding some "flash" to the melodies keeping it simple, hammer on pull off cross pick and an arpeggio over a long tone / note 4. Plan and play a second break. 5. Crash and burn ...... it's always better in private..

Oh it's gotten worse than that. I went in on a multi-track workstation, on one of my Rick Rubin/T-Bone Burnett moments.
So I've got these lush masters of tunes, mostly covers. I really fall in love with the project while in the project. Then the next day listen back, all I hear are the flaws. So I parked it. It's like painting with a whole bunch of colors, when the idea can be conveyed with a pencil drawing. If you've really got something special/valid, a pencil drawing is all that is necessary. All the colors in the world won't help a weak idea/project.

Now I pick a song or tune and an instrument and concentrate on the message, and serving the song. Some of the best stuff is musically pretty easy. It leaves room for the player to either make a fool of himself or step back and let the tune come first. That's not to say I don't play with technically challenging tunes. I use them like etudes.

Lonesome Loser

Mar-03-2016, 2:31pm

Some great advice here. I like the idea of taking it a song at a time asking whether I'd rather learn it with a guitar or mandolin first. It would be fun to switch it up during a jam session or whatever. Would make recording projects more interesting, as mentioned.

I'm gonna add a mandola and eventually a fiddle to the mix before calling it "good enough".

So thanks everyone for your input! I love this forum.

SincereCorgi

Mar-03-2016, 4:15pm

I try to learn everything on every instrument. That way your brain starts to build bridges between the different instruments and you don't end up with a weird compartmentalized repertoire. I think a certain amount of compartmentalization is inevitable, but it's always better to be versatile.

This doesn't always work out perfectly, you definitely will make slower progress when you split your time among a lot of instruments and there's something to be said for intense specialization, but life's too short not to do what you like. I knew one old banjo player at a jam who kept saying how he wanted to learn guitar but that there was too much left to learn on banjo first. Then he died. I sort of keep that in mind.

Mark Gunter

Mar-03-2016, 8:15pm

I don't think there's a magic formula, everyone has to figure out what works best for him/herself. The comments here reflect that. My own experience is that falling in love with the mandolin resulted in neglecting my guitars quite a bit for about six months. Getting back to the guitars a little more came naturally enough, since I play and sing with guitar almost exclusively at gigs and jams, I just don't have the mandolin chops yet. I still spend more time with the mandolin at home, and I find that switching between the two requires a lot of adjustment due to fret spacing. I can only imagine that over time I will improve on the mandolin enough to perform more often with it, and by habit I'll get better at switching between the two. One can hope . . .

Barry Wilson

Mar-03-2016, 10:00pm

I tell myself they get jealous if I don't fondle them all, so I make an effort to spread some love. Though Guitar, OM and mandolin get the most play time, I have been making time for the tenor banjo and mandola a lot recently. The trade I did recently helped a lot as I got rid of 2 instruments I didn't have time for a and doubled up instruments I do play.

Mandobart

Mar-03-2016, 11:42pm

It's work, but they aren't going to pick themselves....

144213

There are a few not shown. Need a wider angle camera or a bigger room I guess.

onassis

Mar-04-2016, 7:17am

I've been on a guitar kick for a couple of weeks now, and I've noticed that , after allowing for a little "re-acquaintance" time, my guitar playing seems to have improved even though I hadn't touched it for months. This same thing seems to happen every time I pick it up again after months of neglect, so I'm thinking that all of this time spent making music (mostly with the mando) leads to being able to make music more easily, no matter what the instrument. The hands, ears, and brain get more and more in concert, more effective at producing the sounds in my imagination. Of course, I played guitar for many years before forsaking it for the mandolin, so there aren't any major technique barriers to overcome. But, I think that simply making music consistently and thoughtfully leads to improved music making abilities in any situation.

Tobin

Mar-04-2016, 1:26pm

I'm thinking that all of this time spent making music (mostly with the mando) leads to being able to make music more easily, no matter what the instrument. The hands, ears, and brain get more and more in concert, more effective at producing the sounds in my imagination.

I agree, and so do neuroscientists. It's an important point that doesn't get near enough attention.

Learning to play an instrument - any instrument - is a process of building neural pathways or connections. You will improve in your understanding of music and music theory, you will build new forms of coordination between your eyes/hands and ears/brain/hands. There are all kinds of things that happen in this learning process.

Lots of people think that sticking to one instrument and specializing in that one instrument alone will make them the best they can be at that one instrument. And I can see how that would make sense. But by forcing the brain to focus on those very specific neural pathways it's building, there may be an argument that it becomes a sort of neuropathic "tunnel vision" which is very limiting. By playing other instruments and building a broader set of musical skills, and expanding the coordination between ears, eyes, brain, and hands, I would think it's fair to say that a whole new set of neural pathways are created. And those can be beneficial across the board, and across all the instruments, to a degree that's far beyond specializing in one single instrument.

Obviously, there are very specific skills and techniques that can suffer from not being exercised enough if one plays too many different instruments. It's possible to go "too far" in playing multiple instruments, where one becomes a jack of all instruments and master of none, as it were. But I absolutely agree that there's a case to be made for becoming a multi-instrumentalist in the quest for mastery of only one instrument.

Bill McCall

Mar-04-2016, 3:16pm

For me, its just a function of time. I put my guitars away 30+ years ago and when I resumed playing music 3 years ago, I took up the mandolin. Now with 3 weeks until retirement, I'm thinking about a more bluegrassy guitar than my 00-21, but I've been faithfully saving myself for that banjo in the corner until 4/2.

I'm not sure what it means when my wife has mentions a new shed in the backyard though:)

catmandu2

Mar-04-2016, 6:59pm

With regards to Tobin's remarks, consider differences among people as well. My sister and me both began woodwinds at age 9/10 - as far as I know she never played/studied any other insttument, while I continue to learn new ones 40-some years later. While specializing or concentrating in one (area) alone no doubt yields great benefits (e.g. instrumental virtuosity), I'm simply not the type to be able to resist variety. So, virtuosity on one instrument was simply something I could not achieve.

"Integration" is what we aspire to in most realms, and after years of doing things, one does find - through deliberation as well as intuition - ways of integrating modes of experience. I used to have all kinds of anxiety concerning all the various things I was doing - how ever would I remember them all!, much less be comfortable. My method was to follow the music - where it led, and eventually I learnt not to worry so much. This was certainly the path for me.

Christine Robins

Mar-20-2016, 10:24am

I couldn't agree more with Tobin about the cross-fertilization from being a multi-instrumentalist.

I started on fiddle as a kid. Later in life I added mando, electric 5-string mando, and tenor guitar. tuned GDAE. (Also a soprano uke tuned GDAE.)

I've learned techniques on mando that I've easily transferred to my fiddle playing. And the rhythmic versatility of fiddling has definitely enhanced my mando playing. Sometimes, if I get in a rut with mando, I'll play the same tune/song on fiddle, and discover new possibilities for expression and variation that I can then transfer back to mando.

I've found similar cross-fertilization by playing different styles of the same instrument, e.g. my Kentucky A-style vs. my Big Muddy flat-top. Or by playing the same tune with a different stylistic touches. Lately I've enjoyed playing old-time fiddle tunes with an Irish lilt.

That said, it's always a struggle deciding which instrument to play. It's like having half a dozen different lovers, with time spent with any one of them being taken away from the others.

I've developed physical problems that limit my energy. I still manage 2 hrs. a day of playing. But because mando requires much less physical movement, and therefore energy, than fiddle, I'm able to play it for longer periods. Thus I find myself mostly playing mando, and hoping that a few minutes a day will maintain my fiddle skills.

JeffD

Mar-20-2016, 6:14pm

...approach seems regimented and likely to drive me nuts in time. I don't know. What do other people do?

Music for me is a pure avocation. That is not anything strange, but the implications are sometimes really wonderful. As an avocation that plays no part in my financial future or professional goals - I do what I want. I pursue what is interesting to me for as long as it is interesting - without giving much thought to whether or not I am making progress or not.

I have made some progress on fiddle, and some on guitar, but I don't do either when I don't want to.

Fact is, I don't do mandolin when I don't want to either. Though I have rarely been away from the mandolin for more than a day or two.

I think if you have significant goals or a professional approach, then all kinds of structured plans are likely more effective. But if music is for fun, do what strikes you as fun, and don't worry about it.

catmandu2

Mar-22-2016, 5:46pm

I posted a response in the wrong thread ("mandolin to guitar crossover"
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?122789-Guitar-to-Mandolin-Cross-Over )

jaycat

Mar-22-2016, 7:48pm

I know just what you mean. I practiced kazoo all last week and now my spoons playing has gone all to hell.

Jess L.

Mar-22-2016, 8:54pm

I posted a response in the wrong thread ("mandolin to guitar crossover"
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?122789-Guitar-to-Mandolin-Cross-Over )

From above thread, hope I get these quote thingies to work right:

Originally posted (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?122789-Guitar-to-Mandolin-Cross-Over&p=1481511&viewfull=1#post1481511) by catmandu2 :

And aside from only strings:

The other day I heard mention of a recent study whose results reported that multilingual children tended toward "greater or broader perspectives" - by whatever operational mechanisms were employed in design and measurement in the study - as compared to monolingual children, with "ability to communicate" being the primary terminology.

I certainly see this in my own children, where we employ study and practice of many different instruments from many different traditions. I observe the same mechanisms and dynamics reported by the research project concerning language: my children ask questions, make observations, exhibit curiosity and generally possess broader perspective in musical terms, than they likely would if exposed only to (the musical equivalent of monolinguism).

For myself, this function of broad musical/instrumental study has been among the greatest asset of multi-instrumental practice. The charter school where my kids will attend also values this "multi" approach to music education, and has elicited an invitation for us to implement our approach in the curriculum, as opposed to traditional band/orchestra.

Excellent points above. :)

And I like the multilingual idea as applied to music, it's a useful analogy. The "greater or broader perspectives" makes sense too, from both musical and spoken language viewpoints.

Interesting stuff, good food for thought. :)

Fretfet2

Mar-23-2016, 5:38am

I too struggle with this issue. My first instrument( for the last 4 years) has been mandolin. Love it. But still fairly new to the game. I started playing guitar learning chords and rhythm as sometimes the guitar player would not show for small jam group. I have played guitar for about 2 1/2 years. All and all maybe kind of soon to be switching between instruments. I have had folks , instructors included that think this is good or bad. I feel that doing this while at times might make me crazy has also helped me learn a lot. If Im in a jam playing rhythm guitar and I want to try to play some melody, taking a solo I have to have something to play, can not change instruments midstream just because I have a mando solo to this song. So I try to add something to my rhythm playing as a result and I am constantly learning or working on something on both instruments. That being said my time is divided between the two and perhaps my learning is slowed. I have been trying to learn songs on both instruments ( chords and melody line). So that which ever I am holding in the jam I can play that particular piece on. Sometimes I find the new chords or fingering more challenging on one instrument versus the other so I might be putting in more time on one. Hopefully it will all shake out in the end! Most important I have excellent instructors . One that plays both instruments but guitar is their speciality and one that plays both but mandolin is their speciality. Long story short maybe focusing on material/ song list and working it out on each instrument will help keep each instrument in the line up. Good Luck !

JeffD

Mar-23-2016, 8:35am

Among my musical friends and acquaintances I find the multi-instrumentalists can be roughly organized into three kinds groups.

"Magpies" seem to just be musically curious and play lots of instruments as a way of adding variety to their musical involvement. Go from mandolin to penny whistle, just because of the fun of playing that tune that way.

"Supporters" seem to be wanting to fulfill an arsenal of musical roles, depending on what is needed at the moment. Put down the fiddle and pick up the guitar if there are already a lot of melody players or the rhythm section needs support.

"Compartmentalized" have this instrument for this music and that instrument for that. Mandolin or banjo for bluegrass, fiddle for Western Swing, guitar to sing, piano for classical or jazz, electric guitar for rock, etc.

The most popular "other" instrument among my friends seems to be the piano.

farmerjones

Mar-23-2016, 9:45am

Ima Cross-Contaminator :mandosmiley:;
If it's supposedly a banjer tune, i'll be playing fiddle. If it's a croon, like Unchained Melody, i'll grab a banjer.

I don't play in groups often enough. I Love the idea of the Supporter. I've been known to try to harmonize where there is a voice missing. I am definitely enamored with the rich sound of a full band. I'll leave the room just to listen, because it sounds different.

Jess L.

Mar-23-2016, 10:29pm

Ima Cross-Contaminator :mandosmiley:;
If it's supposedly a banjer tune, i'll be playing fiddle. If it's a croon, like Unchained Melody, i'll grab a banjer.

:mandosmiley: :grin: It's fun doing that. :)

I'll leave the room just to listen, because it sounds different.

Very true, and a useful technique to improve group sound.

Sometimes from a distance one might hear areas to improve upon, that aren't so noticeable up-close.

And vice-versa, the good points sometimes stand out better from a distance too, especially rhythm-type stuff. It's just as important to recognize the strengths as the weaknesses, so as to maintain the strengths.

... "Magpies" seem to just be musically curious and play lots of instruments as a way of adding variety to their musical involvement. Go from mandolin to penny whistle, just because of the fun of playing that tune that way.

"Supporters" seem to be wanting to fulfill an arsenal of musical roles, depending on what is needed at the moment. Put down the fiddle and pick up the guitar if there are already a lot of melody players or the rhythm section needs support.

"Compartmentalized" have this instrument for this music and that instrument for that. Mandolin or banjo for bluegrass, fiddle for Western Swing, guitar to sing, piano for classical or jazz, electric guitar for rock, etc.

Cool analysis, :mandosmiley: :grin: seems about right.

I started as a "magpie", :)) then realized I could put what I'd learned to practical use by doing "supporter" duty :mandosmiley: as needed.

I always kind of assumed that was a normal progression that musicians went through, after they'd been playing a while. Learn a bunch of stuff first, on as many different instruments as catch one's fancy, then figure out new ways to actually *use* some of those skills to good effect.

I had a brief "compartmentalized" phase, it didn't last long (a few years), too restrictive, in my case it felt like mostly *copying* other people's musical styles faithfully with the correct instrumentation etc, instead of contributing anything new. After I'd successfully copied all the musicians' playing styles that I regarded highly enough to diligently study their music and copy their style (this was when I was a teenager), then it was like, "Now what? Ok so I can sound like [so-and-so] but that's already been done, where to take it from here?" After a few years of that I got bored playing stuff the way it was 'supposed' to be played, on the 'correct' instruments, etc.

The most popular "other" instrument among my friends seems to be the piano.

You're lucky, you must have normal friends, :)) :) here the most popular "other" instruments are bagpipes (smallpipes from various countries, not Highland), tenor banjos (Dixieland), voice (choir stuff), and ukuleles, :disbelief: not necessarily in that order... and not necessarily all played at the same time. :disbelief: :))

Mike Trent

Mar-24-2016, 1:27pm

I started playing Mandolin maybe four years ago. I was in my early fifties at that point and had played guitar sense I was eight. I never learned to use a pick on a guitar in all that time, probably because I kept losing them. I had to learn how to keep a pick around and use it when I took up Mandolin. Now I play both with a pick and can’t play guitar without one. I pick up both in the same evening some times and other times not. No schedule, just what I feel like playing. I think if playing became work I’d stop. I do it for fun so it needs to be fun. Still haven’t learned to use those flimsy thin picks on the guitar though.

JeffD

Mar-24-2016, 10:39pm

No schedule, just what I feel like playing. I think if playing became work I’d stop. I do it for fun so it needs to be fun.

Everything comes from that.

Simon DS

Mar-25-2016, 6:22am

As with an unknown language, if someone told me I had 8 seconds to pick up an unknown stringed instrument and then play a song I'd do this:
Probably start with the lowest (thickest) bass string and call that the root note. I can see where the fourth and the fifth notes are (frets 5 and 7). I'd play down picking to keep it simple, and a solid rhythm (it's universal), maybe alternate with strumming the muted strings, then I'd slide up the next string to hear where the octave of the root is. Having found that I'd work back down, seventh and to the sixth and fifth, and within a couple of seconds I'd know if the tuning is fourths or fifths or someone more exotic. Double-stops? -No problem.
Eight seconds is up. I'd start playing, and then to mask the fact that I'm playing so badly, I'd sing loud with conviction, using a lot of foot stamping, goaning even.
Later on in the evening, people would say, 'that's a great song.'

spufman

Mar-25-2016, 12:31pm

It's amazing what can be done on your phone these days, with a little bit of time and a houseful of instruments! Obviously mandolin is not my primary instrument, but it is probably the most fun. As a database developer guy by day, that's what it's all about. Multitracking into your pocket device is so freeing, since perfection is impossible. So here's me on everything...

https://soundcloud.com/spufman/eclipsing-again

Mark Gunter

Mar-25-2016, 6:45pm

Everything comes from that.

Even the work, if you do choose to work (on technique, theory, learning tunes) come from the fun of it for me. Not saying anybody has to work at it, but if you do choose to work at it, do it for the fun ;)

Mark Gunter

Mar-25-2016, 6:50pm

Multitracking into your pocket device is so freeing, since perfection is impossible. So here's me on everything... https://soundcloud.com/spufman/eclipsing-again

Sounds like you had fun with that, blow on, bro :mandosmiley: :cool:

catmandu2

Mar-31-2016, 12:23pm

As with an unknown language...

Music is such an artistic language - and its tools are just the most fun. I guess I fell in love with these tools at a young age, and long before my developing 'sense' of music began (I first started emulating sounds from "Looney Tunes" cartoons on a guitar; next took up sax because I loved how it looked, felt, etc). Children intuitively use tools to explore, experiment, and may employ them in novel ways to assuage curiosity. Combined with inspiration, imagination, constant refinement (instruction), this really fires-up the neurons. This is the essence of my approach. I encourage adults to retain, or seek, this child-like orientation of language acquisition, experimentation, creative exploration...there are many avenues to explore, and rewards of opening up..