The Loar White House Photo

[goaty76]

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Calling all researchers and internet detectives. I have posted this photo in other threads however now I am looking for some info specific to the photo so I thought I would start a new thread. Joe Spann has dated the photo to April 22nd, 1923 and said,

"The people in the photo are (left to right) Margaret Lichti, Ethel Johnstone, Jimmy "Jazz" Johnstone, C.A. Templeman and of course, Master Loar. The 1923 Annual Meeting of the Guild of Banjoists, Mandolinists and Guitarists was held in Washington, D.C. at the Hotel Raleigh. On the opening day of the convention all the delegates were received at the White House by President Harding."

I would love to see if there are anymore photos of this group. Of specific interest to me is C.A. Templeman and the K-5 mandocello he is holding. There is a fairly good chance I own that instrument but without seeing the top of the headstock ( of course, the only part obscured) I can't be certain. Perhaps evidence of Templeman with the instrument outside of this group can be found. In my fairly quick search I have come up short of anything but maybe someone else out there will have better luck. Let's see what we can come up with.

Phil

[Darryl Wolfe]

To my eye, thatis the K5 with the odd peghead. Note the flare out at the lower shoulders

[goaty76]

I see what you are saying and I might possibly be making out the horn at the top of the headstock. So.....the pic is dated April 22nd, 1923 and the odd headstock K-5 is listed in the archive as February 11, 1924. So like I said........so...?

Phil

[bingoccc]

No instruments though...

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[f5loar]

I would say if the photo has a mid '23 date and your K5 has a signed date anytime before that, it's got to be it. Not too many of those K5 signed in '23. With Loar in the photo could even be a proto K5.

[goaty76]

MY K-5 has had an interesting life and the label is no longer in the instrument. We dated it to '23 by it's features (the same as the '23 L-5 at Carter's). I think I know of three "23 K-5's though none are dated as early in the year as that photo is attributed to and the K-5 with the odd headstock that Darryl mentioned dates to '24.

Phil

[MikeEdgerton]

Is there anyway that you can find out how Joe dated the picture?

[goaty76]

Since he gave the name of the event, the location, and the date, I'm guessing that combination is what he used. We all love Loar here but it probably wasn't every day he was at The White House.

Phil

[F-2 Dave]

I can't help with any info on the photo. But, thanks for posting it. It's very cool, I probably would never have seen it otherwise.

[goaty76]

To my eye, thatis the K5 with the odd peghead. Note the flare out at the lower shoulders

Just noticed The White House K-5 has the "Florida" fingerboard extension while the archive shows the odd peghead one with a pointed fingerboard like an L-5, though oddly without any binding. Though maybe it was changed when it was at one time converted to a guitar.

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[pfox14]

I would guess that the K-5 was the prototype Gibson built sometime around Oct. 1922 which originally appeared in a Dec. 1922 issue of The Cadenza magazine.

[goaty76]

Paul,

Can you post a pic of that one?

Phil

[goaty76]

So this photo dated to October 7th 1922 popped up today on Facebook. It appears to show some of the same people as The White House photo but dates to at least 5 months prior. If you look closely it also has that K-5 I’m interested in. It attributes the player as A. W. Crookes. Still not a great shot of it but man is this early for a K-5!

Phil

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[Verne Andru]

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Neat photo.

Is LL giving us the middle finger?