Martin mandolins

[slk]

When I was at the Martin factory to pick up my guitar last year, someone asked Chris Martin if/why they did not make mandolins any more. I did not catch what he first said but did hear him say that if they were ever to get back into making them they would copy the Gibsons Has anyone heard why they are not into making mandolins. They make several size ukes. Could there be more of a demand for ukes than mandolins? Was just trying to understand the reasoning. Does anyone here have any inside info on this?

Steve

[MikeEdgerton]

There's a much larger demand for ukes than there are for mandolins right now and Chris Martin is a bright guy. For him to recognize what his ancestors didn't really makes him stand out in that crowd.

Historically there have been some huge ukulele crazes in this country. The first one kept Martin from going out of business.

To put this in perspective, go to musiciansfriend.com and do a search on the keyword mandolin. It will return 96 items. Do a search on ukulele and it returns 281 items.

[Tobin]

I can certainly see why they would not want to get back into mandolins, especially for their older style. The Gibson style mandolin is what people want, and the competition is fierce. It's a struggle for makers that are already in the market just to stay relevant. A big company like Martin coming into that market would have to be very competitive on price until they can re-establish the reputation of quality for their models. I just don't see how Martin could do it at this point.

[allowishish]

I've never owned a martin.
But would actually be interested in what price point they would want to try to come in.

I think an offering in the $1000-$1,500 would play well for them.
Anything higher and they do not have the mando rep to demand it. Anything lower would be a bonus.

I think it'd be interesting.

[Jeff Hildreth]

I believe one of the reasons Martin no longer makes mandolins comes from personal experience.

Many years ago (when Mike Longworth was still there) I had a Martin custom mandolin. Highly figured Koa of the first quality, lots of ebony bits and over the top inlays and abalone. Expensive. It was a complete dog. I sold it within a month.

[UsuallyPickin]

I can't imagine trying to manufacture a carved arch top and back mandolin in Nazareth, PA for 1,500.00$ that had a profit margin. Even with a large capital investment in CNC equipment to rough in the carved pieces. An entry level Collings A model sells for around 2,400 $. I have to say though I would be interested in seeing something new in a mandolin from C.F. Martin. I do enjoy my vintage flat top. It has a very sweet tone. ....... R/

[WW52]

I had an old Martin style C about twenty something years ago; a beautiful little mandolin with Brazilian rosewood back & sides, fancy inlay, a very sweet tone, and looked great in my instrument collection. Then during a financial crunch I sold it and kept the Gibson I had at the time --a no-brainer decision as practical needs go.

[MikeEdgerton]

If I was Chris Martin I'd build a nice little pancake out of HPL and own the low end American made market. It's not like they don't know that technology.

[slk]

I just think it would be very interesting to see what Martin could make. If they made something that sounded as wonderful as their guitars they would have something.

Steve

[JEStanek]

I wonder if the could build new, something that sounds as nice as their older cant tops that are pretty easy to find even now, for a similar new price. Not very many of us mandolinists love the old flat back cant topped mandolins (I do). The only NEW Martin mandolin that would interest me would be a flat back style and not an archtop clone.

Ukes are way easier to get playing with with three chords and simple strumming on lower tension strings. Bluegrass takes a bit longer! ;)

Jamie

[BradKlein]

Well it'll have to be flat top or cant top. Martin has had no success carving.

Maybe it's time to revive the mandolinetto!

[allenhopkins]

The Martin mandolins that were made from the late 19-teens into the 1970's seemed to be a transition between the bowl-backs Martin had built before, and the more modern flat-back designs; they had the canted top of a bowl-back, were quite lightly built, and had a sweet, clear, but not "gutsy" sound that harkened back to the bowl-backs' voices. Their mandolin bodies were either mahogany or rosewood (a few koa as well), rather than the maple generally used by Gibson. My 1919 Style A is a really nice little instrument, immaculate crafts-person-ship, and a sound that wouldn't work in bluegrass but is quite suitable to old-timey, Celtic, generic "folk," and other styles.

Martin ventured into the carved-top market with their Style 15 and Style 20 (oval hole) and Style 2-15 and Style 2-10 (f-hole) instruments in the Depression years; the oval-holes in 1929, the f-holes in 1936. These were either "teardrop" shape, or two-point, instruments, not shaped like the Gibsons. Not too many were made (Longworth's book counts around 1,050) before mandolin production ceased in 1942, due to WWII resource demands. Only the Style 2-15, the "teardrop" f-hole, resurfaced after the war; Martin started producing them again in 1947, building a few each year, a total of just under 1,600 before discontinuing them in 1964. The company concentrated on their basic flat-back, canted-top Style A, which they continued to produce into the 1970's.

What would be the advantage for Martin to tool up, and build an instrument (carved-top, F-model Gibson clone) that they've never built before? The market's not that big, and other manufacturers (Weber, Collings) have a head start on them -- plus, of course, whatever number Gibson's still making. Mike E's suggestion above makes a lot of sense; Martin's expanded into the mid-price guitar market, through creative use of alternate materials like high-pressure laminate ("Formica," to me), laminated woods, manufactured fingerboard materials, etc. Where they used to make fewer than a dozen guitar models, they now have perhaps 40 or so.

There probably is a very small niche for re-introduction of the Style A type of mahogany-body, canted top, shorter-scale instrument. As Jamie points out, there are many available on the used market, at quite reasonable prices -- much lower than what Martin would need to get for a similar new model, if made domestically. And the niche, such as it is, is probably adequately addressed by small-scale builders like Big Muddy. As we all know, the near-universal template for a bluegrass mandolin now is a carved-top, f-hole instrument, with or without a scroll. As far as I know, Martin's not making any carved-top instruments now, and would have to do some work to get into that market.

Chris Martin was probably recognizing that at present, the most popular style of mandolin, at least in the US, appears to be the "Gibson model" of a carved-top, f-hole instrument. There are often inquiries directed toward successful guitar makers like Martin and Taylor, as to why they don't build mandolins as well. After all, in the past most guitar builders had a line of mandolins to complement their guitars. But in this era, where the low-to-mid-range of the mandolin market is almost totally conceded to Asian manufacturers, and the market's limited to begin with, even Martin's prestige might not lead to mandolin sales that would justify the company's expansion into the field.

IMHO, of course.

[mandroid]

Ive owned one of their Back Packers .. Other than the body volume being small
they got the neck and Playability right..

And in the past I've owned a Martin Bowl Back

Must have been at the transition era, to the flat back given it shared the same style of Pick Guard, mahogany , & finish ..