View Full Version : McCoury playing Loar now?
kudzugypsy
May-04-2005, 8:50am
so i hear (from merlefest) that Ronnie McCoury is gonna join the Loar ranks. i sort of always figured it would happen....what is the scoop?
mandopete
May-04-2005, 9:36am
Did he win the lotto?
f5loar
May-04-2005, 11:02am
I'd say Ronnie won the lotto when he was born! With a dad like Del he's had it made from the begining. It's April 25, 1923 signed Loar with a serial number of 73006. How much more info. do you need? I've got photos of it but for the life of me can't seem to post any to this site. It's in need of minor repairs so I suspect Gilchrist will have it next to do the honors setting it up for Ronnie's style of picking. He was picking on it at MerleFest and so do several others including Chris Thile. It's kinda obvious you got a Loar when you walk around with it in the original case!
AlanN
May-04-2005, 11:04am
u da man, Tommy.
Darryl Wolfe
May-04-2005, 11:09am
Thats a new number Tommy..where did this come from
Charlie Derrington
May-04-2005, 11:19am
The sunny land of California.
Wow, that nearly a complete batch on record.. we have 73002-73011.. then 73013 & 73014. 73001 is Darryl's A4..
yardburn
May-04-2005, 12:50pm
Ron told me that this Loar came out of Mexico, and is in as good of shape as any loar that he has ever seen.
fredfrank
May-04-2005, 1:18pm
I guess now he'll actually be able to progress in his music! It's gotta be so frustrating being held back by having to play a cheap instrument. (Gilchrist)
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
kudzugypsy
May-04-2005, 1:32pm
well i'm glad he found one, it is gonna be neat to hear him with a new axe.
so now, who does that leave loar-less in the top ranks?
maybe those that keep track of these things can elaberate....but it seems there have been quite a number of undocumented loars surfacing over the last year or so. which is GREAT! are these coming from know batches that are just being filled in, or are they shedding any more light on the whole production total. what is this now, the 6th undocumented loar to surface in the last year.
Flowerpot
May-04-2005, 1:54pm
Yea, and all the extra supply is really driving down the price... NOT.
Darryl Wolfe
May-04-2005, 2:19pm
QUOTE "it seems there have been quite a number of undocumented loars surfacing over the last year or so"
I sincerely think we are experiencing the "second generation" of Loar sales. Many Loars were sold for the first time in the 70's when the original owners were between 70 and 90 years old. If not, they were passed on to his children ect. An original owner who was 20 years old in 1923 would be 102 today (not too likely), but his children would now be in their 70's and 80's, and are passing the instruments on to his grandchildren. The bond to the instrument is much more likely to be lost during this period.
This is exactly the situation on 3-4 of the latest undocumented instruments. It is also what is happening to many folks who bought their used Loar in the 60's and 70's. There are 3-4 examples of this lately too.
kudzugypsy
May-04-2005, 2:58pm
i know this is really stealing the post, but since it is on topic, and going that way....i'm glad to see a younger person (RM) getting a loar here....it NEEDS to carry on. the fact that i too am near ronnies age (2 years younger) we all 'missed the boat' on the 'players' loar days....now that doesnt upset or deter any of us 'youngsters', but i have always been of the belief that most of the mandolin players in their 50's+ had plenty of opportunities to pick up loars from way back before they became purely investment devices, so if you didnt get one, it wasnt due to them being more than your house is worth.
in regards to darryl's post about the second generation, it will be quite interesting (if i live that long, i'm 35) to see what 'value' current loar owners' heirs (third generation) put on their loars that will pass down eventually. will the "lore" of a nice big cash influx from dads ol' F5 be worth more than its value to them??...let me tell you, i 'know' this generation (and the ones behind me are worse)....they wont keep it....they'll take the cash and run!....if there are still heavy buyers in the market....who knows, by then, it might be old atari computers and star wars memoribilia people are paying $100K for?
just an observation by a gen X-er, no flame bait intended.
anyway, i'm glad to see a young player carry on.
Hey kudzugypsy!! - Good thinking - good post - your "theories" are "on target"....(IMHO). Moose. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
Would love to see how it looks. I dont think he played a Loar at the show i went to last year.
How bout the next guy with a really nice Loar be me? Sounds good time me? Well whatever he played at the last show i was at sounded really darn good.
He had an A he switched off with too.
f5loar
May-04-2005, 6:41pm
Who does that leave Loarless in the top ranks? Where would start with such a list? McReynolds,Bush,Thile,White
(both of them, Benson,Farmer,Rigsby,Taminiski,Stefey,Vincent,.... .this list could be quite long.
f5loar
May-04-2005, 6:45pm
yardburn says:Ron told me that this Loar came out of Mexico, and is in as good of shape as any loar that he has ever seen.
Obviously Ronnies not seen that many Loars if he thinks it's in that great of a shape. There are many near mint ones out there and this one falls way short of near mint.
More like Gruhn's VG++ with the case VG-. It does have a rich cremona sunburst to it and is a shade darker than the other tobbaco ones in that batch.
Here's hoping he'll play it at the Father's Day Bluegrass Festival at Grass Valley, California in June....
"but i have always been of the belief that most of the mandolin players in their 50's+ had plenty of opportunities to pick up loars from way back before they became purely investment devices, so if you didnt get one, it wasnt due to them being more than your house is worth."
- I'm 31, and who knows? We might be saying that about Derrington signed Master Models one day and the younger guys will be kicking us for not buying them when they were cheap at 15k! Let's see, in 35 years they should be up to around a million dollars.
Seriously though, I'm glad Ronnie got one... now we can all enjoy it on his recordings.
Happy for Ronnie, but I'm gonna miss the Gilly, which kicked serious butt.
Big Joe
May-05-2005, 9:42am
For those of us over 50, they were still a lot of money. Ten years ago they were fetching about 30K. That was a lot of money ten years ago. Twenty years ago they were bringin 15-18K. That was a lot of money they. They were a lot of money when they were new at 250.00. It is all relative, and if you have enough rich relatives it may not matter http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif . In most of our cases that is not the way it was. Just as today a new MM is quite expensive to most, they are only for those who really want one. The same with the Loars. Always has been, always will be. The few instruments, cars, jewelry, mansions, yatchs etc. are not for everyone. Those who can afford them or those who invest often recieve a great return and great joy while owning them. For the rest, it is a great dream.
GTison
May-05-2005, 9:50am
Pictures! pictures! Post some Pics of this new Loar! anyone?
pickinpox
May-05-2005, 9:55am
it seems there have been quite a number of undocumented loars surfacing over the last year or so
I'm making and distressing them as fast as I can. I have got to be careful not to duplicate serial numbers. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
goldtopper
May-05-2005, 10:25am
"but i have always been of the belief that most of the mandolin players in their 50's+ had plenty of opportunities to pick up loars from way back before they became purely investment devices, so if you didnt get one, it wasnt due to them being more than your house is worth."
- I'm 31, and who knows? #We might be saying that about Derrington signed Master Models one day and the younger guys will be kicking us for not buying them when they were cheap at 15k! #Let's see, in 35 years they should be up to around a million dollars.
Seriously though, I'm glad Ronnie got one... now we can all enjoy it on his recordings.
Yup, hindsight is indeed 20/20.
evanreilly
May-05-2005, 1:27pm
I am pretty sure the Loar that Nancy Blake plays is also dated April 25th, 1923.
If anyone has a line on images of this one (or for that matter, any that we are missing shots of!) please let me know http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
man doh
May-05-2005, 3:53pm
I have a question which might not make sense to some people.
If you had a loar wouldn't you want to loan it to a person like Ronnie to play? And just insure it. Oh and I'm sure it would decrease in value since he drug it all over the world ripping it up.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
I could play mandolin till I turned to dust and not do it justice like that guy would.
I guess the question is, Why aren't these loaned out to quality players?
f5loar
May-05-2005, 4:25pm
Putting the price factor into play take for example: In 1942 when Monroe was riding big at the Opry with his new style of hillbilly country music he could have bought a new F5 for $250(the price remained the same prewar). It would have beat the heck out of his old '36 short necker F7 and Epiphone Windsor. No, he had to wait a few more years to find a used Loar for $150. See the difference back then. $250 was a lot of money to even someone like Monroe yet his brother Charlie was out buying up a new 1941 D45 and his new mandolin player, Lester Flatt he bought him a new 1941 F5. So how is it Charlie had the money and Bill didn't? Bill was spending money on more important things that he enjoyed more than a new F5.
Vincent
May-05-2005, 11:59pm
is the Gilchrist he most recently played the one Grisman gave him? if so, perhaps Ronnie will pass that Gilchrist to younger picker who deserves a fine instrument, as Grisman did for him...
kudzugypsy
May-06-2005, 6:43am
i have held the theory that eventually, it would be grisman who would pass a loar on to ronnie at some point, not necessarily give one to him, but make one available that he could afford - as many know, grisman has been hoarding these since the 70's (i'm NOT saying that in a bad way at all) and i'm sure he would like to 'pass the torch' on to none other than RM.
i think over the next decade+ an interesting situation will unfold. and it would be neat to see folks in the possession of loars pass them on to keep them out there playing, and not in someones investment portfolio. i'm not saying 'donate' them at all, but thru means, have them in a trust or whatever a player can afford to pay. of course, this works best with owners who aquired them in the 60's-80's as anyone after that would have too much investment capital tied up in them. NOT that i will ever have one (i'm perfectly happy with my pag&nugget) but i would at an old age (with no heir interest) make these available to someone to play over what someone else will try to turn a dollar on.
Jim M.
May-06-2005, 10:02am
as many know, grisman has been hoarding these since the 70's (i'm NOT saying that in a bad way at all)
I hadn't heard that. How many does Dawg have?
SternART
May-06-2005, 10:22am
Ronnie sold his first Gil to Steve Earle and bought a more recent one a few years ago.
Christian
May-06-2005, 11:47am
Quote : I am pretty sure the Loar that Nancy Blake plays is also dated April 25th, 1923.
I think you're right, Evan, #73014, according to the first issue of the F5 Journal.
Darryl Wolfe
May-06-2005, 1:54pm
73006..from f5loar
Darryl Wolfe
May-06-2005, 1:54pm
73006
Darryl Wolfe
May-06-2005, 1:55pm
73006
Darryl Wolfe
May-06-2005, 1:56pm
73006
Darryl Wolfe
May-06-2005, 1:57pm
Skaggs played the Boone Creek '24 Loar..so he definately has it back
Darryl Wolfe
May-06-2005, 1:58pm
Rice played the '35 Bone. Which one looks older now..he or the guitar http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
f5loar
May-06-2005, 2:08pm
Darryl thanks for posting those Ronnie Loar photos. Sorry they are not any better than that but you should get the general idea of what it looks like. It was pretty hectic backstage when Ronnie whipped out the Loar and hands it to Chris Thile who by the way was not booked at MerleFest this year, he was just hanging out there with Nickel Creek.
Ronnie played his Gil on stage and this was the only time I saw him with the Loar backstage.
Ronnie was pretty nervous pulling it out around a crowd of stangers but couldn't pass up the opportunity to let Thile in on his new found Loar to hear how it sounded when he picked on it. If I could have gotten Ronnie in a private room backstage like a few others did I would have gotten much better photos. Ricky told me he really liked having his first Loar back. The best live recording I've heard of that '24 Loar is on the Sugar Hill Greatest Show double CD with Ricky playing it on the New South reunion set. It really cuts. It was auctioned off to help pay medical costs for Keith McReynolds many years ago and Ricky got it back from the lady that got it at the auction.
I thought Rice's bone was a '34 (and I don't mean Rice's bones http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )
Wow, that Loar is pretty darn clean
Darryl Wolfe
May-06-2005, 2:51pm
No...it's listed as a '34 bone on several records (Grisman Kaliedoscope #1)..but it's that same ole serial number error deal that everyone makes. It's a '35
f5loar
May-06-2005, 8:54pm
Many confuse me with Tony Rice. I've got the '34 bone!
He's got the '35 bone. The Tony Rice Unit really picked up speed when Richard Greene got on stage with them. You never know what you will see at MerleFest each year. Scruggs playing Monroe songs, only at MerleFest. All 4 members of the New Grass Revivel on stage but not all at the same time. Only at MerleFest.
Fretbear
May-09-2005, 8:36am
Thanks for the pics......
Yes! - ..the pics! - Thank you, much. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
cutbait2
May-09-2005, 12:12pm
look at the other good side of this, maybe there will be a Ronnie owned Gil in the classified soon.....starting at 45k and taking bids
diamond ace
May-09-2005, 8:11pm
Someone earlier mentioned the Charlie Darington sighned master models being woth lots of money in the future. I "thought" all the master models (expecialy distressed ones) were sighned by Charlie. But at the Merel fest I played a Distressed master model at the gibson tent that was sighned by Danny Roberts. Is this normal or was I wrong about Charlie sighning them.
By the way The mandolin looked old and "distessed" but it did not impress me at all with the sound. My dad, and 2 other great players were their at the same time all of them played this one and they all agreed it did not sound too good.
No flames please. Just stating what I saw. and it may have been a bad example of a master model. I don't know. I'ts the only one I've ever played.
mandoman4807
May-09-2005, 9:09pm
I sort of doubt that Gibson would of brought a dud to the dance.
What sounds good to ones ear may not to another.
Darrell
diamond ace
May-09-2005, 10:05pm
thats very true. We all have diferent ideas about what sounds good and thats what makes all this fun isnt it.
Nolan
May-10-2005, 11:19am
"I thought all the master models (expecialy distressed ones) were sighned by Charlie. But at the Merel fest I played a Distressed master model at the gibson tent that was sighned by Danny Roberts. Is this normal or was I wrong about Charlie sighning them. "
--- I believe Danny Roberts is now the man who will be signing the Master Models...
mandoman4807
May-10-2005, 2:30pm
Not to take any fire from Danny, and we all know he is very competent to take over, but I`m glad I have one of the few that were signed by Charlie http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Darrell