My Gibson A4 signed with red asterisk

[bob floyd]

My Gibson A4 serial #77441, that I've had for about 50 years, has a red asterisk next to the serial number. At least 3 more mandolins listed in the Mandolin Archives have this same red asterisk next to their serial numbers: #77428A, #77438A4, and #77454AJR.

Note that these are all in the Loar period. What is the significance of these red asterisks?

[pheffernan]

My blacktop A #77949 also has a red asterisk. The subject was discussed in this thread although no resolution was reached: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?55349-Gibson-History-serial-numbers-FON-s-and-such/page2

[FLATROCK HILL]

My blacktop A #77949 also has a red asterisk.

Wow...What a cool mandolin that Blackface Snakehead is! Are you the one who bought it from that auction site? I'd say it was a nice deal for whoever snagged it.

[pheffernan]

Wow...What a cool mandolin that Blackface Snakehead is! Are you the one who bought it from that auction site? I'd say it was a nice deal for whoever snagged it.

Thanks! At the time of purchase, that snakehead cost about three times what I had spent on any mandolin (four times after getting some restoration done) and I envisioned it as an end of the road type of instrument. Then I discovered f-holes! :))

[bob floyd]

I think it's probable that the red asterisk was put in my Gibson A4 by Lloyd Loar. As I understand, Loar evaluated each instrument. If so the mark of the asterisk was placed on the label next to the serial number after the evaluation process, through the oval. Apparently there is only one other A4 ( #77438) with this special mark. There are at least five A4s with order #11147A:

77438 A4 Virzi Tone 10262 FON 11147A asterisk
77441 A4 Virzi Tone 10254 FON 11147A asterisk (mine)
78604 A4 Virzi Tone 10253 FON 11147A no asterisk
78660 A4 Virzi Tone 10234 FON 11147A unknown
78682 A4 Virzi Tone ? FON 11147A unknown
It seems that these mandolins would be the same except for their individual sound. My mandolin has not been heard by anyone with expertise except maybe Loar. In the last 50 years or so no one except me and my family have heard it. I play my Martin acoustic guitar and only occasionally have played my Gibson A4. It has a beautiful sound (maybe the best there is. If not why not?) but I'm 81 years old and wear a hearing aid. :)

[pheffernan]

I think it's probable that the red asterisk was put in my Gibson A4 by Lloyd Loar.

As the owner of a blacktop A (#77949 / FON 11221) with a red asterisk, I'm curious why you find it "probable" that Lloyd Loar put it there.

[bob floyd]

Thank you for your response. My deductive reasoning (warped maybe). Who else while he was there would have the authority to mess with the label. For number 77441, mine, Virzi number 10254, Virzi number 10253 in 78604 are identical except for the Virzi tone numbers but mine has asterisk and his does not. What reason could it be except sound? The asterisks are drawn in exactly the same place between the serial number and the guarantee. These labels have no place for his signature.

[Jeff Mando]

I love where this is going! :popcorn:

[fatt-dad]

One thing's for sure, it's a red flag of some ilk!

f-d

[Ray(T)]

I don't wish to speculate as to whether a asterisk was added by Mr Loar but I've always assumed that Model/Serial numbers were written on labels before they were glued into the instrument. It doesn't seem an easy task to have to add an asterisk to a label once its inside the instrument and strung up.

[bob floyd]

Thanks for the responses. I've only recently realized my A4 is a little gem, and I'm intimidated by that. I intend to sell it but when, to whom, and for how much is the question. What is the rare red asterisk for anyway? I believe it's for the quality of it's sound. What should I do next?

[pheffernan]

Contact George Gruhn for an appraisal and then see what the market will bear.

[houseworker]

The red asterisk was to indicate that the instrument had been sold without warranty, most likely as a 'second'.

[pheffernan]

The red asterisk was to indicate that the instrument had been sold without warranty, most likely as a 'second'.

As the owner of a blacktop with a red asterisk, I prefer Bob's version. :)) Do you have a source for this interpretation?

[Marc Berman]

I think it's probable that the red asterisk was put in my Gibson A4 by Lloyd Loar. As I understand, Loar evaluated each instrument. If so the mark of the asterisk was placed on the label next to the serial number after the evaluation process, through the oval.

I'm not sure of the production quantities of A's for 1924 (considerably more the F5's) but I doubt if Loar evaluated them. Some people even doubt he actually handled each "signed" instrument (F5, H5, K5 and L5). I think of A models as a higher volume production line instrument. Plus what would be the marketing advantage of the asterisk? Unless it was advertised no one would know what it meant.

[G7MOF]

I remember my early 20s A4 having an "L" after the serial number to show it was a Lefty, possibly during manufacture.

[Pete Martin]

The "second" sounds very plasable to me.