Identify Gibson f series mandolin - is this a fake?

[dkw150]

I inherited this mandolin from my grandpa. I've been researching online to find information, but can't find anything that matches exactly. Any information would be appreciated.

-There is no serial number that I can find.
-The headstock looks to be sanded down
-The forum post from this link dates the logo to 1947-1951 based on the fact that the dot from the "i" is touching the "G". - http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/97227-gibson-logo-history/

What do you guys think?

Dave

[Larry S Sherman]

That does not look anything like a Gibson in any way. The scroll and just about everything are different.

I would guess that it is an import with decals and a tailpiece cover added later?

Larry

[mrmando]

That was never a Gibson. The horrible finish on the back, the tool mark on the bass F hole, and the filing/sanding away of various bits (tailpiece cover on bass side, pickguard, headstock) make me wonder: perhaps it was an import but it's been subjected to some unspeakable DIY butchery. Or could it have been a kit?

The tailpiece cover might be an authentic Gibson part, but I can't really tell from the photos, and again it appears someone's been at it with a file. It might be worth a few bucks but the rest of the instrument is worthless.

[dkw150]

Well dangit...haha. I wasn't planning to sell it anyways, but that makes sense considering my grandparents were quite poor. I will still have to learn how to play this thing by next Thanksgiving for our family band.

I really appreciate the quick replies...wish I would have posted here first rather than spent the last 4 hours researching online.

[MikeEdgerton]

This is an imported mandolin with a Gibson stick on label and an engraved tailpiece cover. That tailpiece cover might have been original but as Martin mentioned somebody modified it. The other interesting thing is the worm over tuners that look to be on pretty correct plates. I wish I knew where they came from. I'm looking for a set like that.

I'd be surprised if there is a truss rod under the truss rod cover.

It's worth more in the memories of your grandfather than it will ever be on the open market. I had a discussion recently with someone about this sort of thing. It isn't a problem while you're still alive but it becomes a problem for the folks that inherit this stuff.

[allenhopkins]

I'd slightly disagree that the mandolin is "worthless" -- its market value is certainly minimal, as a somewhat abused and mutilated fake Gibson makeover of an inexpensive import. Yet, as Mike E points out, it has family-heirloom value, and would indeed be a welcome member of a "family band."

Main problem is the "Gibsonizing" that was done. Makes it a real problem to put on the market, as buyers are put off by fakery (if they're not fooled by it!). But, as you say, you don't plan to sell it anyway, and as a quirky heirloom of an earlier generation, it may deserve a place in your closet, and to be passed on to the next family tier, with suitable explanation, of course.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Looking at the body scoll,it's so bad that i wouldn't attribute the mandolin to any Asian builder that i know of. Even going back to the very first Asian "F" style mandolins that i remember,they'd copy the main details very well indeed.After all,they were trying to appeal to the folks who wanted a Gibson but couldn't afford one. Nobody would look at that one & think 'Gibson' other than for the general outline. The headstock - again,it's never had the correct shape & nobody wanting to produce Gibson 'look alikes' for general sale would offer one like that. If it was an import - then it's a one off !.
IMHO - It's been made by an amateur luthier who was maybe more interested in producing a decent sounding instrument than in having a perfect copy of a Gibson. The Gibson logo wouldn't fool anybody. So - how does it sound ?,
Ivan;)

[Mandoplumb]

Agree with Ivan Kelsrll. Most builders in the 70's put Gibson on the headstock, the first Hutto's even had a Gibson guarantee inside.I don't think it was an attempt to fool people, just a tribute to what was then " the" mandolin of choice. The thinking was let's make this as close to the " Holy Grail" as possible.

[MikeEdgerton]

That is a flat topped flat backed model Asian import of which there are dozens of examples on the Cafe. It's not worth digging them out. It was made in a factory.

[Bill Snyder]

There are still brand new imports like this offered on ebay every day.

[FLATROCK HILL]

Well dangit...haha. I wasn't planning to sell it anyways, but that makes sense considering my grandparents were quite poor.

Dave, You should be proud.
The cheap, no-name import mandolin my grandparents left behind was a bowl-back.
At least your people were trying to show some class!;)

[Steve Ostrander]

I wonder why anyone would have sanded the point off of the headstock? Unless it was broken or damaged.....That pick guard is one of the worst I've seen.....looks like it used to be somebody's counter top....I agree with Allen that it's not worthless, but close to it. More as a family heirloom and/or conversation piece than anything else.

[Big Joe]

It's certainly NOT a FAKE Gibson. To be really considered a fake, it has to have some resemblance to the real thing. This doesn't resemble any Gibson. Enjoy it and make the best of what you have. One of the more difficult tasks I had while at Gibson was having to tell people the prized instrument they brought to me to appraise, repair, or for warranty work was not a Gibson, but a fake. Several times the person was mad at me for telling them ot was not real or for not doing warranty work on their fake Gibson. I saw many who spent a lot of money for the instrument of their dreams only to discover it was a fake. Some pretty good, but most pretty poor. The photo in the example by the OP is not the worst I've seen, though it would be in the top twenty. Fakes are never a compliment to the company that built the original. It confuses too many consumers and results in damage to all concerned. Doesn't matter whose copyright, trademark, or patent you steal, it's still theft and not helpful to anyone.

[T.D.Nydn]

Big joe,,,you've seen 19 other fake gibsons that were worse?

[bradlaird]

dkw150... I have to ask. How does it sound?

[Ken Waltham]

It would make a nice little fire on these late fall evenings....

[WW52]

Dave,
If my grandfather had left me that mandolin I would've gently scraped the Gibson decal off the headstock and removed that truss rod cover & tailpiece cover so it didn't look like it was being passed off as a Gibson and just let it be what it is---an old mandolin of unknown origin that belonged to Grandpa. That way no one could make a stink about it being a fake and it can live a much more honorable existence.

[Ray(T)]

How much is a genuine Gibson tailpiece cover worth in the US? (Assuming the one on it is genuine.)

[MikeEdgerton]

How much is a genuine Gibson tailpiece cover worth in the US? (Assuming the one on it is genuine.)

In that condition not much. Somebody filed it down. I am simply guessing that somebody had a tailpiece cover that was mangled that the grandfather got a hold of and filed down. It's not immediately noticeable but if you look at it you'll see it's not symmetrical.

[Mandoplumb]

If it was his grandfather's it's not firewood and I wouldn't degrade it by scrapping of the name, if it sounds and plays good play it if it don't hang it on the wall and remember Grandpa every time you play it or see it.

[Steve VandeWater]

I agree with Mandoplumb. It's a family heirloom no matter what it is or what it looks like. The OP wants to learn to play it by next Thanksgiving. I'd just get it as playable as possible and have at it. Grampa will be fondly remembered every time he plays it, and that's what's most important here.

[HonketyHank]

I actually think the "Gibson" is an amusing insight into Gramps' life. It's not a fake, its a wannabee. I would clean it up as is, display it, and play it every now and then if it is at all playable. I suspect he knew full well it would not fool anybody who actually knew anything about mandolins and enjoyed the banter with those who did. Would he have a Gibson if he could afford one? I bet he would. Did he think he was fooling anybody? I doubt it.

Yep, ole Gramps was a real character. I think I might have liked him.

[Ken Waltham]

If it was his grandfather's it's not firewood and I wouldn't degrade it by scrapping of the name, if it sounds and plays good play it if it don't hang it on the wall and remember Grandpa every time you play it or see it.

Well, you know what?? You're probably right. Good point. I would just caution, I wouldn't put much money into it...

[allenhopkins]

...I would just caution, I wouldn't put much money into it...

We sometimes use a different calculus in restoring family items, from what we'd use on an instrument we were considering for purchase. Last year I put $300+ into restoring an old china clock from my grandfather's house, although the restorer said the clock was not likely to bring that much on the market. I just wanted to hear the old gal tick and chime again. Now it has to go back for another session; it's near a century old, and the old works had to be de-rusted, lubed, and adjusted -- and it only worked for eight or nine months before stopping again. (Luckily, I got a 12-month guarantee on it, so the second time around is "under warranty.")

I'd never have bought the clock from a dealer, knowing it needed hundreds of dollars worth of work to become functional. But it was part of family history, and childhood memories. So I don't begrudge the cost. If it costs some money to get Gramps' "Gibson" playable again, we're not evaluating it in a competitive marketplace. Just to know that an ancestor's fingers ran over the frets decades ago, puts a value on the mandolin that no one outside of that family may appreciate.

0g2W9OCa0Go

[f5loar]

The parts (tuners, TP and bridge) do look like 70's Gibson parts. The rest of it has no chance of having anything to do with being in Kalamazoo, MI unless it was in the trunk of a car as it rode threw the town of Kalamazoo. I say totally hand made by someone who didn't have very good plans to go by. More of a "free style" copy.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From f5loar - "More of a "free style" copy.". I totally agree. Going back to 1976(ish) when i bought my Jap.made Antoria 5-string banjo,the same music store had an Aria F5 copy mandolin in stock. It was very well made & was a good copy inc.accurately carved scrolls.Tha Jap.makers were nothing if not thorough in their 'copies' & my Aria 'RB-250' copy was mistaken more than once for a Gibson. Although tonally it wasn't even close,the general shape would fool a lot of folk. If it was ever close to Asia,then maybe there's a maker's name under the stuck on Gibson label ?,
Ivan

[MikeEdgerton]

I wonder why anyone would have sanded the point off of the headstock? Unless it was broken or damaged.....That pick guard is one of the worst I've seen.....looks like it used to be somebody's counter top....I agree with Allen that it's not worthless, but close to it. More as a family heirloom and/or conversation piece than anything else.

I'm going to guess it didn't fit in the case he had.

[Timbofood]

This ones been lots of fun to read!
The restoration of "family heirlooms" is so very personal, I have restored items for customers in the jewelry world that almost became replications as opposed to restorations but, mountings do wear out, the gemstone can be repolished, but after a point it's just not great grandmothers ring. I have had things restored more because of whose they were than its monetary value myself. I do not regret spending one thin dime on having a chair my brother loved restored, my wife is very comfortable in it as are my grandchildren. I had a Chelsea lghthouse service clock restored that had been on a boat I loved as a child, it pleases me to have those pieces that meant so much so long ago. As long as the family pull is strong and is loved, it will forever be a priceless family heirloom.
As to copy, I'm with Big Joe, a copy it surely is not, an homage, well.....sort of.
Tom, I think the closest that came to Kalamazoo was Newfoundland.:grin:

[Cary Fagan]

I agree that it's a homemade mandolin and not an Asian import. Not to mention it's unlikely there were such Asian imports back in your grandfather's day. It's very cool that you have it.