Gibson EM-200 (Updated Photos)

[filmmaker]

Thank you for all of your help in telling me it is a Gibson EM-200.
I wiped the mandolin and took new photos for your review.
I could only upload a few on this site, but the links are below for the album.

Any more helpful information would be great!
Thanks again!

Ben
jmac1585@gmail.com



http://s234.photobucket.com/user/mcgin5/Gibson/story

[mrmando]

Looks better already.

Can't tell from the photo ... is the Gibson logo etched on the tailpiece cover or not?

There doesn't appear to be a serial number on the headstock. One theory is that the very earliest EM200s lack serial numbers, i.e., they were samples or prototypes or something from 1954. But there are so many without serial numbers that I wonder if there isn't another explanation.

[Bob A]

Looks like black paint rather than original finish. There's places where it has obscured part of the binding. If so, that would be a serious hit to the value. Refin generally cuts price by 50%, but an Earl Scheib Special paint job would be rather worse. This begs the question of what else might have been done to the instrument?

[filmmaker]

I just got done taking photos with flash for more review.
In my findings, I see that the finish on the body is consistent with the finish of the head.
You can tell it is old and original in person because of the cracking normal wear / patina.
And the knobs are a translucent resin and I have not found any others like it.

Ultimately, I would like to sell it, but I am not finding any other one like it.
I have had comments saying that it could very well be a prototype.
It does not have a serial number and early run mandolins did not have them.



http://s234.photobucket.com/user/mcgin5/Gibson/story

Ben

[mrmando]

The bit about prototypes is an oft-repeated canard, but as I said above, there are so many EM200s without serial numbers that I am not sure it is true. The tailpiece and pickguard place it in the '50s, but I'm not certain what the lack of a serial number tells us.

An in-person inspection by an experienced repair tech under a black light can reveal whether the finish is original. Someone who just bought his first Gibson is probably not in a position to make a definitive call on that question. It does seem odd that the back is sunburst while the top is black.

Given the wear and the headstock repair, this will never be a collectible, top-dollar museum piece, and anyhow the market for vintage instruments has been soft since 2007. After you have this inspected and set up, I think you'd be doing very, very well if you managed to get Tom's estimated selling price.

[notneils]

I assumed the black ones were actually black-faced, were they black all around?

[filmmaker]

I would like to get this looked at by a professional. I think that is the best decision to get it looked at. Can you recommend someone in my area. My zip is 17201.
Thanks for all of your help!

[mrmando]

Which is easiest for you to get to: Pittsburgh, Philly or Baltimore?

[Jeff Mando]

Electric instruments made after WWII can be dated (roughly) by their pot codes. Although, I agree with mrmando that given the condition this instrument will never be a high dollar collectible, but still very cool.

[filmmaker]

Baltimore would probably work best.

Thanks for your help.


Which is easiest for you to get to: Pittsburgh, Philly or Baltimore?

[Jeff Mando]

There's a fairly nice one on eBay right now with no bids yet. You might want to see how that one does.

[darrylicshon]

I really like the look of the em-200 one day i will have to buy one

[mrmando]

Hm. Who knows a good repair tech in the Baltimore area, or maybe closer to filmmaker in the Harrisburg area?

[mrmando]

There's a fairly nice one on eBay right now with no bids yet. You might want to see how that one does.

Yes, that's useful information. Roughly the same vintage as this black one, with the same appointments and the same case, but not all scratched up. Has the original tailpiece cover with the etched logo. Sunburst, though, not black. Starts at $1700. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gibson-EM-200-Electric-Mandolin-/262094021567

[Ken Waltham]

All the ones I've had, have had no serial number. Dating is by pot codes. Later ones were stamped on back of peghead. Mine were all from the 50's. I do believe this is paint, the bridge should be rosewood, this one is black..( painted?) the knobs are different than mine were, but, could be OK. The pickguard is of the earlier style, from the 50's.
I don't want to be argumentative, but, I do not believe there were black ones, and if Seltzer had one, it was probably "customized".

[Ken Waltham]

This eBay one is exactly like the ones I have owned. I have had them in this shaped case, and also in the brown, rectangular case.
BTW, the finest electric mandolin, IMHO.

[Jeff Mando]

The one on eBay has the same bridge as this one. I clicked on the photobucket link above to view some more details. The knobs are the type Gibson used on electric guitars from approx 1956-60, including certain Les Pauls. The jack plate plate was also used on the Les Paul junior guitar from that time period and is fairly valuable, because they always got broken when someone left a cord plugged in and bumped into something.

[mrmando]

Well, Ken, I hesitate to argue too, at least with someone I respect as much as you. But I have further evidence. Here's a photo of Brendan Furneaux of Oklahoma with his blacktop EM200, which he told me he bought in a pawnshop: http://www.emando.com/players/Furneaux.htm

And I have another photo of a black '60s EM200 on this page, which I poached from the Web site of an Australian guitar shop years ago: http://emando.com/builders_inactive/Gibson.htm

So including those two, the Setzer instrument and this one, I know of four black EM200s.

When Nash the Slash died, a friend of his sent me some high-res photos of his electric mandolin collection. He may have had a black EM200 as well; I'll have to see if I can dig those photos out.

[f5loar]

Notice in the photos above link that they show many Gibson electric including a custom black F12E which I have seen and is original finish, so I know they did make these in the black finish by custom order. Black finish was a hot thing back in the 50's due to the Les Pauls that had the black finish. These all look like the same black.

[mrmando]

The black EM200 is currently up on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Black-Gibson-EM-200-Electric-Mandolin-Florentine-EM-200-w-Leather-Case-/201453918028?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

A couple of scratches on the top seem to reveal a dark brown undercoat, which may or may not mean anything. And I do agree with Ken that the bridge base looks too dark for rosewood.

Of course, if you're curious you can always buy it and judge for yourself.

[jefflester]

Would be interesting to see what's under the bridge, eh?

140017

[Ken Waltham]

Thanks for the info, there you have it! Hope he does well with his sale.
Ken

[filmmaker]

I appreciate ALL of your contributions and Help! You guys are the experts and you have been extremely helpful.
THANKS!

[f5loar]

If the one on ebay does not get a bid at $1700, then this black has no chance at $1700. The ebay is very nice early '54 EM200 and in very nice all original condition. I do notice typical Gibson black finish lacquer checking in the photo above.

[filmmaker]

The seller has (0) feedback and its risky to begin with to buy off someone like that.
That screams "red flag" to me.

I would have to trust the sellers ratings in order to spend that kind of cash.
It wouldn't surprise me that it does not sell.


If the one on ebay does not get a bid at $1700, then this black has no chance at $1700. The ebay is very nice early '54 EM200 and in very nice all original condition. I do notice typical Gibson black finish lacquer checking in the photo above.

[filmmaker]

I am going to sell this Mandolin for parts since I could not secure a winning bid through eBay. Thanks for all of your help!

[darrylicshon]

That's a shame just put it on ebay at $0.99 and let it sell for what it is worth

[brunello97]

That's a shame just put it on ebay at $0.99 and let it sell for what it is worth

+1 :(

Mick

[JH Murray]

Nash the Slash's emando collection? That would be a treasure trove I would love to have a peek at! I was a huge fan back in the 1970's and 80's.

[Jeff Mando]

That's a shame just put it on ebay at $0.99 and let it sell for what it is worth

Seller has relisted the EM-200 on eBay with a 99 cent starting bid. That usually creates some excitement, it is already at $200+, however, I'm sure it will peter out far below $1799 that the seller wants. I hope to be proven wrong. eBay is hit or miss with this kind of stuff. Everybody is looking for a bargain. It is rare, but the condition is holding it back. I think a lot of bidders would love to have it for $400-500, myself included. I think if it was hanging in a Nashville vintage shop, it would sell to a pro for $1799, IMHO -- it has a great "coolness" factor and let's face it, it allows mandolin players to use fuzz pedals and guitar amps!

Anyway, time will tell. And, the seller can always yank the auction in the last 24 hours if it doesn't look like the bids are going anywhere. I stand by my original posting that it is worth $2500, parted out. It would be financially irresponsible to sell it for a 1/3 to 1/2 of that on "principle". I say that having 16 years eBay experience and another 35+ years of "horse trading" instruments and other collectibles. Like the old sign read, "this ain't no MUSEUM, this stuff's for SALE!!!"

I clearly remember 20 years ago, working at a vintage guitar shop and noticed the "beater" 50's Stratocasters and Les Paul's were $1500-3500 when a nice one was bringing $25-30K. $1500 seemed like a lot of money for a beat-up guitar, back then. Well, enter the eBay generation, right or wrong, some genius figured out the parts on the beater guitar were the same as on the $30K guitar..................guess what? You don't see a lot of beater strats and les pauls these days, do ya? ;)

[filmmaker]

I decided to let it start at .99 cents. I really would like to get close to my original number, but I'll let the eBay marketplace decide the value. I hope it finds a good home. Thanks again

[brunello97]

Fair play to you, Filmmaker. It's none of my business, of course, but I appreciate your gesture. Not sure why "financial responsibility" (whatever that is :confused:) and "principle" are inimicable. Good fortune to you with the auction.

Mick

[darrylicshon]

You never know what it will end at, always the last few seconds you get the highest bids. I'll bid but i know i can't afford what it will end at.

[mrmando]

Nash the Slash's emando collection? That would be a treasure trove I would love to have a peek at! I was a huge fan back in the 1970's and 80's.
Well, it turns out the collection in question was only his four emandos by Toronto luthier Vladimir Bosnar, including the famous "skull mando." Nash did own an EM200 at one point but I guess I don't know what color it was. Anyhow...

[JH Murray]

In this early video of 1976 he is playing the EM200. It looks like it has a brown finish, at about 5:55.
https://youtu.be/_tFxJhb07WE?list=PLH24zh1pYIaKSLU0Q--GMzzExsJBdHw6a

[Jeff Mando]

Not sure why "financial responsibility" (whatever that is :confused:) and "principle" are inimicable. Mick

The OP states in his eBay listing that he is a picker and recently picked this up at an estate sale. "Picker" meaning one who buys and sells antiques and collectibles, NOT a mandolin or guitar picker, just to be clear. Think "American Pickers" tv show. Obviously bought for the purpose of resale, not to keep and play. "Financial responsibility" also known as logic, would say that you would want to get the most money for your items as possible, since you bought them for resale.

OTOH, if you are cleaning out a closet and find something you've had for years and sell it on eBay -- money may not be the motivating factor, as much as just getting rid of it. Not the case, here.

"Principle" in this case actually means pleasing the principles of others who believe an instrument should not be parted out, for any reason. As I stated in a previous posting about this same instrument, I personally would only part out an instrument if it shows a ton of wear, has been damaged or if it had been refinished. This one shows a ton of wear, so it qualifies, IMHO. Also, as stated in other postings on this subject, parting out a rare instrument allows others with nice original instruments to buy parts for their restoration, in effect, one instrument parted out can result in SEVERAL instruments being restored. A good thing.

Your mileage may vary.

[darrylicshon]

Maybe the person you wins it will part ot out

[brunello97]

The OP states in his eBay listing that he is a picker and recently picked this up at an estate sale. "Picker" meaning one who buys and sells antiques and collectibles, NOT a mandolin or guitar picker, just to be clear. Think "American Pickers" tv show. Obviously bought for the purpose of resale, not to keep and play. "Financial responsibility" also known as logic, would say that you would want to get the most money for your items as possible, since you bought them for resale.

OTOH, if you are cleaning out a closet and find something you've had for years and sell it on eBay -- money may not be the motivating factor, as much as just getting rid of it. Not the case, here.

"Principle" in this case actually means pleasing the principles of others who believe an instrument should not be parted out, for any reason. As I stated in a previous posting about this same instrument, I personally would only part out an instrument if it shows a ton of wear, has been damaged or if it had been refinished. This one shows a ton of wear, so it qualifies, IMHO. Also, as stated in other postings on this subject, parting out a rare instrument allows others with nice original instruments to buy parts for their restoration, in effect, one instrument parted out can result in SEVERAL instruments being restored. A good thing.

Your mileage may vary.

Financial Responsibility = Make the Most Money I Can in All Situations = Logic? There's a sound principle, clearly articulated.

But principles are, of course, things that other people have. ;)

Yeah, my mileage varies. But this is neither my mandolin, nor my thread, nor my dog in any fight.

Keep on pickin', vato.

Mick

[Jeff Mando]

But this is neither my mandolin, nor my thread, nor my dog in any fight.

Me neither, NFI, but as close as I get to following the "stock" market........

It's at $635 with less than 6 hours to go. Still a deal for somebody.

[houseworker]

Finished at $1,436.22.

[f5loar]

At that price, me thinks someone knew it was original black finish and not worthy of parting out.