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mandoaz
Jan-03-2004, 8:12pm
I ordered a 5 string electric mando from Ron Oates back in March of 2003 at which time he told me it would take 2 months to complete...After he cashed my money order, I have not been able to make consistent contact with him whatsoever. He has not returned my phone calls/e-mails at all!

I'm just curious if anyone else has had a similar experience. Has anyone been able to contact him recently? If so, how were you able to reach him? Any details you can share would be extremely helpful!

Thanks,
Mike

mrmando
Jan-14-2004, 12:06am
Last time I called Ron he picked the phone up right away, but he said he likes to spend a week at a time in his shop -- during which a lot of phone messages will pile up, which he feels like he doesn't have time to return.

Ron is so backed up with work that he has stopped taking orders and removed his phone number from his Web site (however, it's still at MY Web site, emando.com). My advice would be to keep dialing and try to catch him on a day when he's at home and not holed up in his shop. Figure out how many rings you get before the voice mail picks up, and hang up in the middle of the last ring -- that way, you don't get charged for a phone call that isn't returned.

Is this the ideal way to do customer service? No, but it's the way things are. I'm hoping Ron succeeds in working through his backlog. Maybe he needs to hire somebody to help him -- I think he and his customers are both suffering from the popularity of his instruments.

mandoaz
Jan-14-2004, 1:42am
I guess I'm at the point where I'm done giving Ron the benefit of the doubt....This is the same Ron Oates who literally fell off the face of the earth for 3 months this past summer and now again for the past month+....i.e. did not return a single phone call or e-mail...To me, that is flagrantly unprofessional....As a luthier, if you fall behind schedule, you owe your paying customers the courtesy of informing them of where you are in the process....

I would rhetorically ask, "How hard would it be for Ron to compose an e-mail update which he could carbon copy to his 40+ backed-up customers?" My main beef is NOT that it's taken 5 times longer than he said it would take to complete my mando. It is his lack of COMMUNICATION. What else is a customer to assume except, "I gave this man over $1000 of my money, and he doesn't even respect me enough to take 5 minutes out of his day to write a 3 sentence e-mail response..."

Unfortunately, yet completely justifiably, it will be Ron Oates' popularity as a luthier that will suffer as a result of all this....

mandolooter
Jan-14-2004, 2:23pm
I sympathize with you and your last line sums it up in a nutshell! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

mandroid
Feb-03-2004, 11:36pm
I am not dissuaded about the depositlooting yet, until my$1250 is worth talking to me.
AFofM have any kneecappers in Denver?

Lee
Feb-05-2004, 2:07pm
I believe what Ron's done is mail fraud, a federal offense. Contact his local police department and file a complaint. If this becomes your intention, send a certified letter to him stating your intention. It sounds rather inexcusable at this point.

thistle3585
Feb-10-2004, 3:25pm
Well, have you heard anything yet?

mandroid
Feb-15-2004, 4:38pm
I have heard nothing but #talk and that was a year ago, I am forced to mail via registered return reciept, a) change of my adress notification, and notice that If I hear no reply still, I MUST consider all previous statements to be fraudulent, #(only talk)and take it from there.
Mail fraud #is one count. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

mandolooter
Feb-15-2004, 7:16pm
Still no response...I'd be checking into legal options at this point in time. Keep us updated and keep this thread active, who knows it might save someone a heartache. Good luck my friend!

mandoaz
Mar-08-2004, 5:30pm
All right--here's the latest from my end...I contacted the Boulder Police Department who referred me to the District Attorney's office. I have been working with a lady by the name of Claire Hunter in the Consumer Division who has dealt with Ron Oates' victims before. I would encourage anyone and everyone who has outstanding issues with this unethical luthier to contact her. I know there are quite a few Cafe members in the same boat as me and who knows how many other casual board viewers out there who have or will see this thread. If we can demonstrate to the DA's office that there is a pattern of unethical business practices, they can act on our behalf to right these wrongs.

Again, her name is Claire Hunter and her phone# is (303) 441-1664.

Thanks,
Mike

mandofiddle
Mar-09-2004, 12:51pm
FYI, I just got off the phone with RonO. Obviously I won't be able to put out these fires, but I'll tell you what I know. I'm just the messenger here though, so don't shoot me... He's down to 11 orders left to fill, with me being last on his list. He told me he has 3 ready to go out the door, and that he's just waiting on the hardware to arrive. He's expecting to get them out by the end of this week or the beginning of next week. He said Mike above is one of them, and that he's sending the mando COD. He also said that the other fella on here complaining has a bit of a different story. That he tried to get his deposiot back because he didn't have the money to pay the 2nd half when it would be due (upon completion). From what RonO told me, is that he said he wouldn't give the deposit back because he had started the mandolin (acceptable in my book) and ceased communication due to threats (i.e. the DA in Boulder). He is still planning to deliver that mandolin COD when it is finished. Whether it is accepted and paid for is another story. I wouldn't expect to get your deposit back if you don't accept the mandolin, as thats why they call it a deposit... He told me he turned out 35 instruments last year, and that he's expecting to have his list wiped out by summer. Then he told me he's quitting the mandolin-making business and going back to working construction. Said its a lot easier to work only 60 hour weeks instead of 80, and to not be broke all the time.

Again, I'm only telling you what he told me on the phone. Do whatever you guys feel you have to do, but I thought I'd communicate our conversation...

Dave

Tom C
Mar-09-2004, 1:11pm
I would think the buyer who is bowing out is entitled to get their deposit back once the maker sells the so called mando to another buyer.

mandofiddle
Mar-09-2004, 1:35pm
I have no idea how that works in the luthier world. I know that in the graphic design world, I get a signed contract that says once the work has started and the deposit is paid and the contract is signed, that the deposit is non-refundable. I also have this in writing though, so there is no question...

Tom C
Mar-09-2004, 2:18pm
Yeah, but that business is different. Just a small example. If you make a logo for somebody's company and then they decide they do not want it. You can not re-sell it
unless that company has the same name and doesn't mind having a scull with cross bones for a logo. A mando you could re-sell even with all custom appointments. They're are pretty static.

Mar-09-2004, 2:21pm
This might be one of those ethics versus legal issues. #If the item producted has no value to anyone else (custom graphics) then I can see giving no refund. #If the items still has value I can see giving the refund but only after the item is sold to someone else.

Of course, since most custom builders give a 48 hours approval, it is really in the best interest of the builder to give the refund otherwise the build will have a mandolin that has been shipped twice and "didn't sound right".

mrmando
Mar-09-2004, 3:35pm
Thanks for doing that, Dave.

mandoaz
Mar-09-2004, 5:51pm
First off, thanks for sharing the details of your conversation, Dave.

Now let me explain why I'm not very convinced of how truthful Ron was being with you. Since September, that's right SEPTEMBER, Ron has told me that my mando would be ready in 1 to 1 1/2 weeks. I guess after about the fifth or sixth time I heard this line was when I stopped believing Ron. So when he tells you that he expects to be finished this week or early next week, I'm sorry, I just don't buy it.

Furthermore, I know none of you know me personally, but I am not one to complain over a small matter. So let's face it, when I've reached the point where I am contacting the DA's office and the Boulder Police Department, it is because I believe that I have been SERIOUSLY wronged.

Before I let my anger get the best of me, I'll stop typing...for now.:(

Again, thanks for the update Dave.

Mandobar
Mar-12-2004, 8:03am
i do a lot of business consulting for small businesses. #i was a corporate vice president before that at a fortune 100 company where we were taught basic old fashioned business skills as well as the new-fangled stuff. #(in addition my family has also run the same successful business for over 100 years. so i grew up around this stuff too.)

here is something that i have learned over the years-
if you are going to miss a deadline, then you need to be up front and honest about where you are in your schedule. #hiding from the truth just hurts business. #all you need is one person bad mouthing you at a party (or a jam in this case) and your reputation is damaged to the point where you are going to feel it financially.

as for the deposit, if the luthier has a policy not to return, then that's fair. #if he is making up the rules as he goes along, well, that's another story.

enough preaching, time for some pickin'

mandoaz
Mar-18-2004, 9:44pm
Today marks the ONE YEAR anniversary of the day Ron Oates cashed my check...Over the course of this year, I have received ONE returned e-mail and ZERO returned phone calls. That is an absolute JOKE! Words cannot describe how insulted/angry I feel... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

jmcgann
Mar-19-2004, 2:12pm
Yesterday I took delivery of an Aylward Master model (like a Selmer Django guitar). I paid me deposit in Sept. 02 for a June 03 delivery, so it was 9 months late of schedule.

However, we kept in touch and there were a number of good reasons that I was made aware of. It's easier to grin and bear it when there is communication with the luthier. The guitar is totally awesome and was well worth the wait- I asked for a few custom touches (maple back, sides and neck, plain fingerboard, etc.) which set it apart from his usual. But one man shops are up against a lot- one thing goes wrong, and the whole endeavor grinds to a halt, and the domino effect takes place. Small consolation but a fact none the less!

It sounds like yer man is getting out of the business and going back to construction, and so that'll be that. I hope your new axe is worth waiting for in any event!

mandoaz
Mar-25-2004, 9:29pm
Hmmm....Let's see....Today is March 25....The last word we heard from Ron (thanks to Dave's post) was on March 9 at which point he said that he expected to have the instruments shipped in approx a week or so....

Maybe the hardware hasn't arrived...Maybe the shipping company botched an order...Maybe Ron's dog ate my mandolin and my money...Maybe my mandolin still has roots and leaves...Maybe--oh, wait, I mean DEFINITELY Ron is running a dishonest, uncommunicative, and utterly unethical business.

Anyone who has outstanding issues with Ron Oates, please contact Claire Hunter at the DA's office at the number in my previous post above.

Thanks,
Mike

mandolabra
Mar-30-2004, 7:22pm
i, too, ordered a mandolin at the same time you did, mandoaz. same troubles with communication. haven't heard anything for awhile...reaching a level of supreme frustration. think I'll contact the DA...this sucks.

mandolabra
Apr-14-2004, 2:32pm
has anyone heard anything recently? i've contacted the DA and am filling out an official complaint form...

mandofiddle
Apr-14-2004, 2:34pm
Nothing new from my end unfortunately...

mandoaz
Apr-15-2004, 11:16pm
I have heard nada, nothing, zip....I'll say it again...This is the worst purchase experience I have had...EVER! When I think of all the other quality luthiers I could have given my hard earned money to, it makes me sick...

berkeleymando
Apr-20-2004, 9:20am
Interestingly, there are no fewer than 3 separate rono emandos for sale in the MC classifieds right now.

mandolabra
Apr-20-2004, 4:20pm
okay, I've been racking my brain as to what we might do to collectively (and thus effectively?) influence Rono to get going. Claire Hunter says there are 3 outstanding complaints along the same vein-- mine will make 4. One has received his/ her mandolin; complaint satisfied. She says Rono will not return her calls but may respond to heavier pressure of a legal sort(this sounds like a slow process, how appropriate...) Besides this, it may be that Ron won't care about his reputation as a luthier because he's leaving the business. Does anyone know someone in Boulder that could make a physical visit and assess what's really going on over there? Half the pain is not knowing--

mandofiddle
Apr-21-2004, 1:17pm
For what its worth...

I live 15 minutes North of Boulder. I've known RonO for about 4 or 5 years now, since having him build my electric mandolin. This was before he was really known. About 3+ years ago, I traded my electric mandolin, an amp, an old computer, and a little cash back to RonO to have him build me an F5 mandolin. He told me it would be finished in 6 months or so... It took a year and a half. I'm sure it would have taken longer had I not been able to go and bug him on occasions. And through the entire extra year, I got the "It'll be done in a month" or "It'll be done in 3 weeks" story over and over again. I was at his shop a few months ago, and there were works in progress there. Now who those were going to, I have no idea. I really don't know what to tell you folks that are in the same boat that I've been in before. It sucks plain and simple... I'm in the same boat again as I'm waiting on him to build me an octave mandolin, which he has some of my cash for as a down payment. I also know that, upon talking to him last, that if I push or nudge him, I'm liable to never get it. Simply because he has everyone pushing and nudging him. He told me he even had someone come to his door and threaten him with physical violence. Sure I could take the legal route, but 95% chance I still wouldn't recover my money, and I'd only end up making an enemy of someone in the local music circle. Something I never do is purposefully make enemies. So, it looks like I'll be waiting for a while, as I'm the last person on the list, and then when I receive my mandolin I'll not do business with him again. Plain and simple, for me at least. I honestly don't think he's trying to jip people out of their money. But I do think he has horrible customer service and people skills, which he'll admit, and shouldn't have gotten this deep into a list without giving people a realistic expectation. Since I've dealt with him in the past, I knew to take his timeframe estimate with a grain of salt...

Tom C
Apr-21-2004, 1:24pm
He sounds like the typical bad contractor who get a down payment from customer A,
pays off some of his debts, then can't do the work for customer A without more resources. Thi$ ha$ to be the only rea$on.

Mandobar
Apr-23-2004, 7:03pm
mandofiddle,

he needs to contact everyone and ask them to be patient. right now he does not need to get wound up in a deep legal tangle.

tom c,

ever notice that many a contractor has had several wives? (most ex-wives who wish them ill) speaking from experience even the wife gets the "two more weeks" blah blah..... but at least he had to come home.......no choices there, which is why his truck was registered to me......in many states contractors are required to post bonds and deposit funds in excrow. if things continue to deteriorate with instrument builders i can see the "escrow" trend moving over there too.

mandoaz
May-03-2004, 8:31pm
I think that is my biggest concern--is RonO still actually working on our mandos...Or has he skipped town with our money? When a business neglects even the most basic form of communication with customers, what else are we left to do but assume that money has been stolen? Mandofiddle--I'm glad to hear that you've actually been to the shop somewhat recently and saw works in progress. At least to the best of everyone's knowledge, it sounds like he's still working...maybe...

A phone call, Ron...Give your paying customers one lousy PHONE CALL...This is not that hard...Take care of your unfinished business and then all of us will go away, and we'll gladly never have to talk to each other ever again...

250sc
May-04-2004, 10:15am
In a previous post someone mentioned that he is getting out of the busness. If he declares bankrupcy do you loose your deposit?

mandofiddle
May-04-2004, 12:26pm
I just got off the phone with RonO. He called me to let me know the status of my mando, which he said he'd have done by Rockygrass. He said he's getting ready to send out a few mandos, and has a total of 9 left before his list is gone. I asked him to call me and let me know after he sends out the mandos, and to who they're going to so that I can post it here. So hopefully good news will be coming shortly for a few folks here...

mandoaz
May-06-2004, 10:11pm
Thanks for the efforts Dave...I really appreciate it...If only RonO had one tenth of your integrity/concern...

krishna
May-17-2004, 4:27pm
This is one of the more interesting threads on the site right now.I am sorry that this is being done to you guys. I'm wondering,how many Luthiers take the entire amount up front? The last custom that I ordered,I paid a third down,a third when half finished,and a third when it was done.If the 3 of you think you are having a hard time(not to deminish this) ,think what Ron must be going through right now, not even able to answer his phone.I can't make excuses for him. The last story I heard about this ended in a bankrupcy.I truly hope things work out for you three,and I'll pray for that Ron guy.

krishna
May-17-2004, 4:35pm
PS Can you put yourself in his shoes after reading this thread? If it was me ,I think I'd just curl up and die.

mandoaz
May-22-2004, 1:11am
Believe it or not, I finally took delivery of my RonO emando today...1 year and 2 months later, I'm relieved the whole ordeal is finally over and a resolution has been reached.

I still can't believe that law enforcement had to be involved--you'd think Ron would've just returned a simple phone call and let his customers know that he was still working but had fallen behind schedule: A little communication goes a long way...

My heart goes out to my fellow cafe brethren who are still waiting...

Dave--Thanks again for all of your efforts and concern...Next time I'm in the area, I'll be sure to check out Heartwood Hollow.

Mike

AlanN
May-22-2004, 4:55am
Thank goodness that's over.

acumando
May-22-2004, 1:31pm
so.... how's the mando? ... what is worth the time and tsouris?

berkeleymando
May-23-2004, 8:29pm
Yes, I'd enjoy hearing a review of your new emando.

harmon
May-26-2004, 9:14am
regarding deposits on a custom instrument and customer relations I would like to add that Jack Spira is building an octave mandolin for me and my experience has been very different. Jack asked for NO deposit, has contacted me with suggestions sent wood samples and photos all along. I wish that all people having an instrument made could deal with someone like Jack.

mandoaz
Jun-01-2004, 8:58pm
I'd like to keep the review brief:

Quality instrument? Yes
Quality buying experience? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Sorry for the extreme brevity, but this whole process has fatigued me to the point that I'd rather not speak of it anymore...I'm just glad it's finally over, and I'd like to get back to more important things like playing mandolin! However, if I can be of help to any others who are still waiting, let me know...

Mike

delsbrother
Jun-02-2004, 12:23am
Could you at least tell us what kind of Rono you got? Each one on the classifieds is different, as is the one for sale at Mando Bros..

mandoaz
Jun-02-2004, 12:58am
delsbrother--5 String "Working Man's Special" w/ 1 humbucker & a piezo

One last thing--If you still owe him money, have him ship the mando COD....That way he doesn't get your money until you receive the mandolin...and, from his perspective, if you don't have the dough, you can't take delivery of the mando--In other words, both parties are equally protected by shipping COD...That was the ONLY method of completion that I felt comfortable with after everything that had gone down...

Hope that helps...
Mike

cbrooks07
Jun-16-2004, 6:19pm
Hey everyone, I'm new to the mando discussion board. I just wanted to share my story for everyone else's knowledge. I too am waiting for a mandolin from Ron. I ordered mine January 10, 2003, and he said it would be done in 7 weeks. I have only spoken or had communication with him a couple of times since then. The most recent communication I had was 2 weeks ago, and its the same story everytiem, he says that it will be done and shipped out next week. So, I happily hung up thinking that I was going to get my great custom made mandolin in a week. Of course, that didn't happen. Unfortunately for me, I got an email from him about a month and a half ago saying that it was almost done, and to please send him the rest of my money so I did. So now he has no financial reason to work on it. I hope he does make it, because I know he can make great instruments and I have been looking forward to this instrument for a long time.
I have not called any authorities and I don't think that I will for another month or so, because based on the stories I've heard, I dont think he is trying to rip me off. I am a little upset that another person posted that he ordered his mandolin later than I did, and received it before me.

frankseanez
Jun-23-2004, 6:30am
Hey now, folks! #Add another name to the listing of buyers. #I've had a similar experience starting in March 2003. #I wish the best for all of us.

Steven Stone
Jun-23-2004, 9:24am
I live in Boulder. On monday I ran into Ron O. at the UPS drop-off. He was shipping a mandolin. He said to me, as he has said to many folks before. I ship one mandolin each week.

Ron is building mandos. He is a good builder, but, as he freely admits, not a great people person or customer support person. If you ordred a mando from him, it will come, but don't expect it to come quickly, and don't expect any amount of harrassment to speed it up. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

mandofiddle
Jun-23-2004, 11:11am
I think Steven nailed it on the head. From my experience with RonO, any amount of harrassment will likely slow it down...

frankseanez
Jun-25-2004, 5:44am
It's good to hear that Ron is still getting his orders out, albeit slowly. #While the money is a consideration, of course, the mando is the goal. #I am very leery of trying to force either speed or response by legal means. #I don't think that Ron is a fraud, and many contractors of many sorts fall behind in their work schedules. #Having known other players who have ordered from other luthiers, I knew that Ron's original six month projection was way too ambitious. #However, being a March 2003 vintage order, I am looking forward to that day in the hopefully not to distant future when I will get to jam on my Homer (five string, double humbucker,inlaid with an image of Homer Simpson). #When I get it, I'll post to let you know.

cbrooks07
Jul-29-2004, 5:54pm
Still waiting for that mando, Ron... just thinking about how good i would be at playin' it right now if I had gotten it when you said i would!

michaell
Jul-29-2004, 9:19pm
I went to Mandolin Brothers last week (for the first time) with a friend, and there was the infamous Ron-O 5-string hanging on the wall. I thought that it was a very fine instrument-lovely to look at, great-sounding, easy to play, and with a C string that stayed in tune... Fortunately, my electric mandolin requirements are well-taken care of
elsewhere.

horatio hellborn
Aug-02-2004, 10:16am
Chalk me up as another Rono customer who hasn't heard from him in weeks. At least I know that it's not just me! It is pretty relieving to hear that he is still sending them out/building them. Other than actually recieving the mandolin, has noone heard from Ron since May?

mandroid
Aug-28-2004, 9:40pm
I'm going to send another letter , this time spend $5 for the return reciept, seems though a SASE required a tiny effort,even it was not expended from that end.
If that won't get any reply ,perhaps one may hope, Rocky Flats Nuke factory must have mutated a Godzilla Avenger Monster to come to my aid, ( though I've,absolutely, no resembelence to (the late)Fay Ray }
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Old Man Knipes
Aug-31-2004, 2:47pm
I am totally new to this posting but my son has been waiting for a Rono mandolin since June 2003 when he paid his last $1,250. He has had no communication with Rono since last year. Does anyone know if Ron is still in business as of today. We have sent all the certified letters which came back "refused" and am now considering legal action. Having sent e-mails to Ron concerning this and getting no response at all is very, very frustrating. I have also left a message for the lady at the consumer division in Boulder but have not heard from her. If anyone has any news to post, I would greatly appreciate it. Ron told my son the mando would be done absolutely by the end of last August....2003!! We also have an e-mail from him that said this. He also talked about how beautiful the instrument was going to be and that he was putting two pickups on it because of the delay in getting it done....yeah, right! Anyway, I'm done venting and glad theat there is a place where others share in the same frustration. Thanks.......Old Man Knipes http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Old Man Knipes
Sep-01-2004, 11:21am
For all of you out there that are still waiting for a mandolin or you $$$ from Ron Oates.....I spoke this AM with Claire Hunter at the DA's office in Boulder. They have only received 4 (counting mine)complaints concerning Ron andsaid they would like to hear from anyone who has ordered and paid for a mandolin or any other instrument from Mr. Oates and had not received anything from him. Please contact her at : (303)441-1664. She sent me forms to fill out so that they can issue a subpoena. So far, two people have gotten their insturment from him after the DA's office did their deal. If you have been wronged by Ron Oates, it would be to all our advantage if you got in touch with the DA's office. Thanks....Old Man Knipes http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Lee
Sep-01-2004, 12:12pm
Well Ron, if you're reading this, I am very sorry to hear about your plight and I hope you're able to make a complete recovery. I want to send a big Get Well!
When I first joined the Mandolin Cafe I quickly made good friends with a fellow we called Mikey2. He was deathly ill and used some of his last strength to send us his always cheerful thoughts and advice. He never gave up communicating with the people who were meaningful to him although each keystroke must have been a herculean effort.
Ron, if you're out there, please extend us just a fraction of the same effort and I'll venture to say that the good members of the cafe will stand by and support you.

mandroid
Sep-14-2004, 10:23pm
Boulder DA sent me complaint forms , worth a try,,, ronno ,,, karma is a bitch !

Lee
Oct-13-2004, 11:49am
Check out the Ron Oates F model in the Classifieds.
Looks wonderful, and the stereo output jack is an interesting idea.
Anyone had any luck, or news about Ron?

frankseanez
Oct-21-2004, 6:24am
I've reached my personal point of no return with Rono, and will be proceeding with the DA's Office and civil courts this week. I ordered my mando in March 2003 and have received repeated claims that it would be done, this week, in two weeks, since June 2004. Enough is enough.

Frank

mtnrose
Oct-21-2004, 4:16pm
Ron had a booth at Rocky Grass. He had a dandy 5 string OM there that I really liked. After reading these posts Im glad I didnt fall for his "better buy it now or itll be gone & Ill knock off x$ untill 3pm." sales pitch.

Becky

mandocaster
Oct-21-2004, 4:29pm
hmmm...

doesn't sound like a guy trying to get out of the business. Was this recently?

mtnrose
Oct-21-2004, 5:19pm
Fairly recent. July 25, 2004, Lyons, CO

JeffS
Oct-22-2004, 8:17am
Anyone have any pictures of his mandolins? I've been curious as to what they looked like after reading all these posts over the past months.

Moose
Oct-22-2004, 10:31am
Don't know the guy.. ; but, I wouldn't buy a used car from him. I've been following this thread intermittently(!?) for the past many months(!!!##) - Evidently he isn't afraid to "be seen"...!?? - pretty "brazen" don't ya' think! - I agree, most of his customers - those whom I've read about on this CAFE - have been more than fair with him. Enough!!## - Keep us posted guys... & Good Luck. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

mandofiddle
Oct-22-2004, 10:37am
Here's one of his electrics...
http://www.mandoweb.com/43-0135.jpg

frankseanez
Oct-31-2004, 9:37am
Hey now, Comanders! Hoopy Halloween. In the ghost sighting area, I heard from Ron on Friday. He told me that he lost his shop and has moved from his old digs. He also said that he was going to mail out my mando next Friday, which made me check my calendar to see if it was actually April 1st, instead.

Frank

mandroid
Oct-31-2004, 5:02pm
So did he disclose what the current location and phone # is, the rabble is ready to gather with torches and pikes.
PM ME if you have data and want off post communication, instead.

frankseanez
Nov-01-2004, 7:01am
Nawman. No new location or phone.

Frank

Moose
Nov-01-2004, 10:34am
Don't sound too good to me - Good luck!! - we'll watch for updates - (AND, if your mando arrives). http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

frankseanez
Nov-02-2004, 6:40am
I'll sure post if I get it. But don't hold your breath and DO get out to vote today!!!

Frank

thistle3585
Nov-02-2004, 1:10pm
Frank,
Do you think the reason that he is moving forward on it is because you filed paperwork with the DA? That seems to have been the case for a couple others.

frankseanez
Nov-06-2004, 7:36am
Hey now! Friday came and went with no mando from Rono. I am moving forward with the DA's Office and will let you know how that progresses.

Frank

neal
Nov-06-2004, 8:07am
Now, he said he was going to MAIL it on Friday, right? Good luck though.

mandroid
Nov-07-2004, 4:51pm
Mr Oates could be president of the US , same ethical standards.

Moose
Nov-08-2004, 10:10am
hee... hee... (remember., the PC "police" are lurking!!) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Old Man Knipes
Nov-08-2004, 12:41pm
Haven't been here in a while but I want to report that my son, (Langston), received his mandolin from Ron Oates just last week. He ordered it in January 2003. He has reported to me and to the DA in Boulder that the mandolin is not the way Ron promised it. That is to say Ron hurried with finishing the piece and there are problems with the pickups and the finish. Nonetheless, it was the DA who got this thing to it's conclusion, so far. To all of you still out there waiting on an instrument from Ron O: hang in there, get in touch with the Boulder DA's office and keep pushing for a resolution. It can happen! Good luck!

Oldmanknipes

Lee
Nov-09-2004, 1:54pm
Ron would probably enjoy some time-out at that infamous "undisclosed location". http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

frankseanez
Nov-10-2004, 1:51pm
I'm also working through the DA's Office. My order was placed in March 2003. I'm glad to hear that another mando was produced, albeit with birth defects. What is the extent of the deficiencies? Are they Bill Lawrence pickups? What is wrong with the finish? Did you order bindings? Did you order an inlay? Were these OK or are there problems?

Frank

cbrooks07
Nov-19-2004, 1:53pm
Hey everyone!
Well, I posted on this site a few times, and I finally received my 5 string e-mando from Rono about 2 weeks ago. I ordered it January 2003. Throughout this long and arduous process, I remained relatively polite and understanding with Ron, despite multiple promises months and months ago that it would "be there in a week". I don't know if the DA's office is a good way to go. I had considered taking that route, but realized that Ron was not ripping anybody off. Everyone who had paid had either gotten their instrument, or was waiting for it. No one was convinced they had been conned. I came to the conclusion that he was honestly back-logged with orders, was a terrible customer service guy, and was probably not working on them with the diligence he should have been. I was worried that if I went the DA way, this might cause him to turn out a poorly made instrument. After all, the quality of the instrument he makes is totally up to him. I had already been waiting for a year and a half, so I decided to hang in there and keep it cool. From the sound of what happened to Old Man Knipes, my strategy may have been the best one to follow, except the optimal route, which is to ask Ron for the second payment cash on delivery of the instrument. Unfortunately I had already send all my money to Ron before I thought of doing that. After playing it for a week now, I can honestly say this instrument is INCREDIBLE. The tone is amazing, pickups are a great range of warm and mellow to bright and piercing depending on pickup selection. The mando's sustain is also ridiculous! Craftsmanship is perfect, no flaws, everything is as it should be or better. I had a custom inlay done -- a phoenix design. I dont know how he did it, but the design is exactly what I sent, and it looks beautiful.
Wow, this is a long post, but I figure there are still some people out there who are interested. I am pleased that the whole saga has finally come to a close, without having to involve the law. I am extremely pleased with the instrument, however, I can say that if I had known it would take one and a half years, I would have definitely ordered from a different luthier. To those who are still waiting -- have patience. Ron will come through, without a doubt. He is not scamming anyone. Take my advice, you have already been waiting so long, it is better to wait another month or even two, than to get him angry and force him to produce a "defective" mandolin by going through the DA. Feel free to contact me with any questions about my experiences with Rono. cab@gwu.edu
As Rono would say, "keep on pickin'!"

frankseanez
Nov-28-2004, 8:51pm
Dude. It wasn't a year and a half for you. It was 21 months. Do you know why you finally got your mando? Cause other folks are making it an issue that Ron can no longer ignore. I'm happy you got your mando, as I will when I get mine, ordered in March 2003. But don't delude yourself or others that this was a good or acceptable commercial experience. My patience now is with the DA's office. I ran out of patience with Ron months ago.

Frank

cbrooks07
Dec-06-2004, 4:48pm
I definitely don't think it was a good commercial experience, but then again, its not some kind of usual purchasing deal like going to Wal-Mart to buy a new TV. Of course he is running his business very very poorly. If he was making mandolins based on who was filing with the DA, you certainly would have gotten yours before I got mine.

The advice I posted last to other Ron customers about waiting instead of going through the DA was because I was successful (granted after 21 months as you say), without doing that. And with such an expensive investment in an instrument whose quality is completely dependent on Ron's care and diligence, I would try and keep from pissing Ron off. Yes, i was pissed and frustrated and angry, but never really thought he wasn't going to deliver in the end.

He didn't deliver my instrument because of the stink everyone has been making with the DA, cause if that was the case, why would he have delivered mine? Besides, he has made and delivered many many instruments to people who never took it to the DA.
I'm sure you will get your awesome homer! (great idea by the way!!) I am sure we can both agree we won't make the mistake of buying again from Ron..... :-)

best of luck!
chris

frankseanez
Dec-08-2004, 7:34am
Nawman! I tried to be mellow and not piss Ron off. It's been 21 months for me, since 2003. I had the same idea as you prior to about the 6th time I was lied to by Ron. If it takes 21 months or 22 months, he should just say so. I'd still be waiting patiently. It's the delays, and the lies, and the frustration generated by both of these that generate this reaction. The only reason he is responding now is that folks got sick of it and started lighting a fire underneath him through the Boulder DA's Office. I'm absolutely not buying into any posts which attempt to characterize Ron as a well-meaning luthier who should be granted a wide berth. My view is that my mando ought to be the most excellent custom job there ever was, based on the outrageous amount of time, delays and lies that I've had to endure. If that is the case, then maybe I'LL post a review here saying it was worth it too. But until that time, I've gotta wish all the rest of the defrauded customers the best of luck.

Frank

mandroid
Dec-21-2004, 2:20pm
frankseanez, as last sucessful contact
do you have a physical address that I can mail a signed for letter to,? My address is different , 3 years having lapsed, and I never get a reply to an email since my deposit check was cashed. address notification from my end may help.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif > http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif > http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

PM would do in this case.

Dec-27-2004, 11:36am
HA HA HA YOU SUCKERS!
No, I'm just trying to laugh on the outside because I'm crying on the inside. #*Sigh*. #Me too. #No returned phone calls, no returned emails, past promised date, etc. #I've only sent him half the dough, so I guess I may hear back from him someday. #I am SOOOO glad I found this thread. #I mean, What am I supposed to think? #I don't know if the guy's alive or dead, much less if he's actually working on my mandolin. #I seriously was thinking of heading to Boulder to try to find the guy. #So I'm glad that he treats everyone like poop, not just me, and I would like to send my heartfelt condolences out to my fellow sufferers. #And the address I last had was a PO Box, but I do have a number that I talked to Ron on in the recent past (maybe 2 1/2 months ago). #However, it has a computer voicemail greeting and picks up on the 2nd ring, so you're not likely to do anything but leave a message, which hasn't done me a whole heck of a lot of good. At the moment I'm feeling rather restrained, but I really wish I had found this thread before I ordered my axe from the guy. #I have no problem paying for and waiting for quality, but part of me feels like every time I pick up my mando (if it comes), I will feel acid reflux thinking about my ordeal with the guy. #I feel bad for anyone who is waiting for an instrument from him who hasn't found this thread. #Man. #I, too, will post here if I hear anything from Ron. #I'm an acoustic guy now, but playing jazz, and I may need to go get a Mandobird in the meantime. #If only I knew what the meantime was...

frankseanez
Dec-28-2004, 7:33am
Sorry for taking so long, Mandroid. The last known address:

Ron Oates
Rono Instruments
4500 19th Street, Lot #411
Boulder, Colorado 80304

But this information is old. Unless you are worried about making Ron mad, I suggest that you contact the Boulder DA's office.

Frank Seanez

mandroid
Dec-30-2004, 9:01pm
News Flash! an Update: use flame supressor, boys, actually had Mr. Oates call me , tonight.
So,yes, I have been missing a couple years of communication while in the queue.
Quite found wanting for any reasuring feedback, and allowing plenty of time to exercise my worry muscle, [with some influence from my vast, cavernous, self doubt reserves.] (Apply cathedral reverb setting) perhaps things for the Bari are reaching concusion.
says he's sorting thru 7 remaining items of special orders.
Stated his plan thereafter, shift to premade, stock inventory of as is product.
... the bird is still in the shrubbery, in the meanwhile...
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif > http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif > http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Lee
Jan-03-2005, 3:19pm
Interesting "thereafter plan"; an earlier post reported Ron was leaving the mando-building world once these obligations were completed. He told me the "Workingman's Special" was going to be the standard item for him too. The problem with "stock" is you need to build stock before receiving a penny in return.

Kekule
Jan-07-2005, 11:00am
What made all of ya'll chose Ron Oates to make your electric mandolin? Is it because Michael Kang of string cheese plays one? Just curious. I wouldve gone with something like a Glaser.

Lee
Jan-07-2005, 11:34am
I never heard heard of a Glaser and can't find anything about it on Google. Please do tell.

Scott Tichenor
Jan-07-2005, 11:44am
Glaser (http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/builders/searchdb.cgi?uid=default&view_records=1&keyword=glaser)

mrmando
Jan-07-2005, 1:29pm
Ricky Skaggs and Casey Driessen have both played Glasers. Photos at emando.com.

jmcgann
Jan-07-2005, 6:29pm
I played Casey's Glaser and it is a really great axe!

mandroid
Jan-07-2005, 10:29pm
The baritone 18" 5 string of Kang was my spark, conversation was 2 way before cash in hand, design was a jazzy style.
the turkey is still in the corn. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

frankseanez
Jan-14-2005, 7:07am
Yep, Kekule! As a longtime Cheeser, my interest in a Rono was ignited by hearing hours and hours of Michael Kang's shredding his Rono Dragon. But I relied on Rono's factual representations relative to the mando he would build for me in paying out the cash for a custom Rono 5 string. If I would have known how incredibly unreliable and untruthful he was, I would've double bagged it.

Frank

mandroid
Feb-08-2005, 6:19pm
Waiting for Rondot as revised from the original Beckett, Estragon says to Vladimir....
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

delsbrother
Feb-08-2005, 8:46pm
I want to party with Mandroid. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

frankseanez
Feb-10-2005, 7:48am
I'll just feel Lucky when I finally get .... a CARROT!

Brian Aldridge
Feb-10-2005, 9:22am
Why don't you look into Old Town mandolins? They're built by Doug O'Dell who builds e- mandos and also builds really good F5s and guitars- I am soon taking delivery on the 3rd F5 I have had him build for me. He is in Lakewood Ohio near Cleveland. Here's a link to his website. NFI
http://www.oldtown-mandolins.com/

mandroid
Feb-10-2005, 6:05pm
Oldtown wouldn't build off the deposit in RonnO's bank account,though, will he? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Usefull advise for the ones yet to cough up the deposit, though, If they want an 8 string.. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

frankseanez
Feb-16-2005, 7:02am
Hey now! Yesterday, I finally got delivery of my Rono. I haven't gotten a chance to take it out and look it over real well, so later on that. Thank you, Claire Hunter!!!

frankseanez
Feb-19-2005, 7:40pm
I've had a couple of days to check out my Rono. I'm pleased with both the look and the sound. If only it hadn't taken so long and required the intervention of the DA's Office in order to actually receive the same, I'd be overjoyed. As it is, I'm merely relieved to have obtained an acceptable outcome.

frankseanez
Feb-20-2005, 10:20am
Like I said last December, if it was the most outrageous custom job I'd make a post saying that it was worth it. Well, this is that post. The finish, the Homer Simpson inlay, the bindings, the dual Bill Lawrence humbucker, the balance and heft of the instrument, the thickness and feel of the neck, the curvature of the frets, the feel of the fingerboard, and of course, timbre and sustain of the sound, are all exquisite. Thank you, Rono!http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

berkeleymando
Feb-20-2005, 12:12pm
I'd like to see the 'Homer' inlay. Could you post a pic?

frankseanez
Feb-21-2005, 1:06pm
Doh! I've tried a number of times, but the file is too big. E-mail me privately and I'll try again!

Frank

Tom C
Feb-22-2005, 9:26am
I want to see it also.

delsbrother
Feb-22-2005, 3:13pm
Mmmmm... Cheese.

Baron Collins-Hill
Feb-22-2005, 3:39pm
ooh, they have the internet on computers now...

Don Grieser
Feb-22-2005, 4:17pm
Hey Frank,

Bring it out some Tuesday night. Not tonight--we're not getting together tonight. I want to see that thang.

Mandroid--there's one less partridge in the pear tree. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

mrmando
Feb-22-2005, 7:29pm
Frank, send the photo to martin@stillion.com and I'll resize it for you.

eastcarterman
Feb-22-2005, 9:05pm
I have got to see this homer inlay, I cannot believe this guy is such a terrible person. I truly feel for each order left that has not been filled.

Peace, carter

Pete Braccio
Feb-22-2005, 10:27pm
Hi all,

I hope you all finally get your mandos. I've been reading this thread for a year. It's been like watching a slow motion car wreck. (Don't want to look, can't look away, and can't believe that it's still going on.)

Pete

frankseanez
Feb-23-2005, 8:41am
I took Homer to the Coffeehouse last night to see some of his new friends, but just ended up playing a couple of fiddle tunes and leaving since there were no Summer Wages to be earned. Homer was disappointed, but I bought him a donut with sprinkles (Mmmmmm ... Sprinkles!) and he was OK with it real quick like. Origato, Mr. Mando. I'll send those pix along to you for resizing. I was going to take some more at a different size, but this might just be easier. It has been a slow mo bus wreck, more like a bus ride in Constantine than a bullet limbo in the Matrix. Whoa! Since I got a fine mando at the end of the ride, I'm more willing to look at the whole experience as a study in human nature, but I strongly caution folks to expect a two year wait, no matter what you're told about projected completion periods. Are there other folks in the seats behind me who are still waiting for Rondot? What's next? Check out the Rono website to see the new standard a five-string hollowbody single humbucker job with an F-hole, binding and mother of pearl trim and hooper inlay. Only $2500 in 2005 dollars. Cheap!! The sickest Stockholm Syndrome thang of all is not at their shows, but in the fact that I'm seriously contemplating getting back on the Rono bus, Gus! Mmmmm, the power of Cheese!

Frank:D http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif :cool:

frankseanez
Feb-23-2005, 8:54am
Zizwork?

frankseanez
Feb-23-2005, 8:57am
Whaddyaknow? They DO have the internet on computers!

frankseanez
Feb-23-2005, 8:59am
But you can only add one image at a time. DOH!

jmkatcher
Feb-23-2005, 9:37am
That's an intensely cool instrument!

eastcarterman
Feb-23-2005, 10:18am
That homer is priceless, a true one of a kind. #I really want a RonO now, but I dont know if I can put up with that guy. #What kind of amp are you using, is the sound everything that you thought it might be? #Do you highly recommend against ordering the new standard? #How should I start this process, it seems so shady to have to send a guy money at the beginning of a project that wont materialize for 2 years. #Was it truly worth the wait? Anyone have any very strong feelings, If I am being dumb just tell me people.

Christian McKee
Feb-23-2005, 10:58am
Have you read this thread?!? There are plenty of quick, reputable, non-slapped-with-legal-action luthiers out there. Not to mention inlay artists, if that's the part that really trips your trigger. The good folks at www.breedloveguitars.com do lots of custom work, and it's *exceptional* as well as reliable (I have no personal interest there...) I'm not in the market these days, but I personally wouldn't even *consider* ordering from someone as slippery as Ron Oates seems to be.

Christian

Moose
Feb-23-2005, 11:27am
Yeah!.. - Welcome home Ron ; all is forgiven - caaa-caa happens'. hee.. hee... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Ted Eschliman
Feb-23-2005, 12:01pm
Yikes, I'll confess morbid curiosity myself, tracking the now 5 pages of development on this "Reality" show. (The only thing missing is pictures of some shirtless, tousel-haired confused drunk, face blurred by the camera, being cuffed and hauled away.)
Now the thought of someone going back to the scene of the accident, I'm hearing in the background a low string bass bowing the motif from the movie "Jaws." I want to get up and scream at the screen, "NO. NO!!! Don't go into the water!!!"

mrmando
Feb-23-2005, 1:58pm
I thought the tale was that Ron was going to cease accepting orders and go back to building boats or something.

frankseanez
Feb-23-2005, 2:23pm
It is an intensely cool instrument, thanks! I run it into a A/B switch (so that I can accomodate my electric fiddle, Zeta 5-string or Fender 4-string), into an Ernie Ball volume pedal, into a Digitech GX2 sound processor, and sometimes a Qtron, into a Fender Twin Amp.

If I was interested in obtaining a 5-string standard electric in two years, I'd consider getting it from Rono. But I sure wouldn't believe anything about a 6 month delivery of any Rono instrument. Like many artists, Rono really needs a business manager to handle his contracting and communications matters while he works solely on design and manufacturing.

Frank

delsbrother
Feb-23-2005, 2:35pm
Well, if:

a) you MUST have one NOW and
b) you can deal with the fact it's used (by a known emando player) and
c) it's still in stock and
d) you don't mind dealing with Mandolin Brothers, then

e) http://www.mandoweb.com/43-0135.jpg

LINK - It's only $1750. (http://www.mandoweb.com/15_MandolinFam.htm)

A bird in the hand...


Darrell

frankseanez
Feb-23-2005, 3:47pm
Shucks! I'm cutting the check right now!

mandoaz
Feb-24-2005, 3:29am
OK--I'll quit lurking and chime in on this thread that I began over a year ago...

First let me say this...Frank, I'm glad you got your mando...I'm glad Rono didn't ship you a lemon and I'm sure that you're relieved that the whole nightmare is over...

But I feel the need to refresh everyone's memory about the fact that this was literally a nightmare...Just click back to a couple of your (and my) very own posts a mere few months ago...Your/my frustration-turned-anger-turned-disgust is quite well documented and, I would argue, extremely well justified...

Somehow, throughout the ordeal, I always managed to treat Rono in a professional manner. I'd just like to note that this courtesy was not returned by any stretch of the imagination. Rono's attitude was not only unapologetic, but smacked of flippant arrogance and utter lack of concern...

Am I glad that my instrument displays quality craftsmanship? Yes...But there are many, many other luthiers out there that not only build high quality instruments, but also give their paying customers the respect they deserve...

But hey, if you want to pay good money to be insulted and lied to, by all means make that check out to Ron Oates...Frank, the notion of you (or anyone) giving more of your money to this dishonest and flagrantly unprofessional builder makes me want to vomit...:(

Mike

frankseanez
Feb-24-2005, 8:46am
Touche, mon frere! #I've been plenty jacqued off at Rono throughout the last year, that is true. #I've got to thank you for spinning this thread, and to Board member, Don Grieser, for bringing it to my attention last year. #I continue to believe that the information which I received from you, and all the other mandos-of-war on the list, led me to the actions which ultimately led to my receipt of my Homer.

I assure you all that what you read here was only the tip of the iceberg. #I tried to keep my contacts with Rono personal, rather than professional, but through the last four months of the ordeal the professionals had to be brought to bear on the problem.

Likewise, I'm glad that your own Rono displays quality craftsmanship. #I've read reports of flawed instruments in this thread and will readily admit that if Homer had arrived with deficiencies that I would have gone all the way professional. #But at this point, to give the devil his due, I've got to say that I'm very glad to have finally received what I consider an exceptional instrument from same the luthier who has outfitted Michael Kang. #For those of you who are Friends of Cheesus, or who stray into the String Cheese Incident listserve, the subjective value of this aspect of the transaction to me will be no surprise.

With regards to the check, please be advised that it is in the mail, and should arrive in 2 weeks. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif (Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more, say no more.) But maybe I sent it to the wrong address. #I thought that No. 430135 was in the inventory of the Mandolin Brothers.

What I'm interested in at this point is why these Ronos are appearing in the secondary market. #Is it a matter of supply and demand, with mandowners taking advantage of the market to reap capital gains? #Or is it a matter of dissatisfaction with the instrument received, presumably after a similar experience to those so well documented in this thread? #Did they pitch their Workingmen's Special over the side and decide instead to Schwab the deck? #Did they trade up to the products of the other luthiers out there that build high quality instruments, in a quest for better sound or a little respect? Have you made your Rono walk the plank? #Is the appearance of No. 430135 in the Mandolin Brothers inventory a result of some dissatisfaction with the double dual humbuckers, the lie of the strap against those devilishly curved shoulders, the straightness of the neck, or some other perceived flaw? While I will cop to my own full measure of flippancy and arrogance, I am concerned, and I really would like to know!

By the way, Mike, I'm sorry to have made you vomit, even if it was just a little bit. #Your chunks are well documented, and beyond a reasonable doubt, extremely well justified.

Frank

delsbrother
Feb-24-2005, 4:01pm
With regards to the check, please be advised that it is in the mail, and should arrive in 2 weeks. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif (Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more, say no more.) But maybe I sent it to the wrong address. I thought that No. 430135 was in the inventory of the Mandolin Brothers.
Uh, don't know what you're trying to say there, Frank. Of course it's at Mando Bros (at least it was the last time they updated their site). That's why I posted the link. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

As to the Mike Orlando thing, I think we covered that on this board when the mando first popped up for sale, but I can't seem to find it now. IIRC he stopped playing entirely..

thistle3585
Feb-24-2005, 4:11pm
Frank,
Does the pickup get in the way? It seems to be located right at the sweet spot.

mrmando
Feb-24-2005, 5:46pm
As to the Mike Orlando thing, I think we covered that on this board when the mando first popped up for sale, but I can't seem to find it now. IIRC he stopped playing entirely..
Methinks you have him confused with Matt Mundy.

Mike Orlando has gone through a LOT of mandolins; I think he ended up with a Loar. He's taking a break from Cast Iron Filter and doing a solo project in Nashville.

delsbrother
Feb-24-2005, 6:05pm
Oops. Damn memory.

Dial "M" for "Mandolin" http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

frankseanez
Feb-24-2005, 6:55pm
Sorry for being so obtuse, dels (and my) brother. What I meant is that I was kidding about sending anybody a check for a second Rono in this same month, but that the money wouldn't go to Rono in any case, since it was in the Mandolin Brothers inventory. Presumably, Mike Orlando either sold it or consigned in to Mandolin Brothers, so Rono would not get any further direct economic benefit from the sale of No. 430135. The "check's in the mail" and "2 weeks" references were relative to the repeated failure of Rono to deliver the mando, in spite of repeated claims that it was coming "in 2 weeks." The "Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more, say no more" is a reference to a Monty Python skit, but that's something completely different.

I am interested in the reason for Mike Orlando's jettisoning of that instrument from his collection. I know a number of folks who are collectors, buying and selling instruments like most other people change their socks, but is that the reason for the sale here? A Loar is not the same kind of socks as an electric mando. In fact, it might be more like a pair of leggings, or even lederhosen. I'll look up the Matt Mundy posts to check out why he got rid of his Rono. Thanks for the direction!

I haven't found the placement of the pickup on Homer to be a hindrance. In those instances wherein I've hit the face of the pickup, I haven't even heard a click out of the amp. I tend to stay pretty close to the strings with the pick and move up or down depending on the sound I'm trying to obtain, so I rarely encounter the pickup with any degree of force, unless I'm playing Won't Get Fooled Again, or other Who material and my windmill gets out of hand.

Frank:O

Apr-29-2005, 7:00pm
In case anyone is out there who gets a wild hair and decides to order a Rono, I'd just like to proffer the fact that Rono is still selling his brand of snake oil to his customers. #
# # His promised date to me was Christmas. #He called me last week. #Was he calling me to tell me my mando was ready? #NO, no no! #He was calling to ask if I could send him the rest of the money I owed (after putting half up for my deposit when I ordered the thing). #He claimed that he was moving to a new shop and if I got the money to him to help him facilitate this move, he was sure to have my instrument ready within a month. #
# # It's hard to figure what to do with him- again, if he just told me the bloody thing would take 18 months I would still be waiting patiently. #Instead, he has now missed 3 promised delivery dates. #I am sure that I'll get a great axe out of this in the end, but I still feel taken hostage in the sense that I don't want to piss him off miserably and either compromise the integrity of my mando or at least make him take even longer. #So, potential Rono buyers, you should still beware! #I will report back upon reception of instrument, which should be by the end of May. #Keep your fingers crossed for me, if you would.

mandofiddle
Jul-05-2005, 1:01pm
Anybody hear from RonO lately? Any new news?

wmr
Jul-08-2005, 9:51am
I have e-mailed Rono several times and never got a response. This is all within the last 2 months or so.

wmr
Jul-08-2005, 10:02am
I just read some to the previous posts. I bought the old Mike Orlando Rono. It is a little beat up thats why I got it cheap. It plays amazingly wonderful. It has a big ding on the top behind the bridge near the edge where the strap pin is located. Also a nick on the top of the neck at the 12 fret. Looks like someone used a razor knife on it. Other than that it looks good. I love the dual humbuckers with the phase in\out for both. Gives me lots of sounds. If anyone wants more info. E-mail me.

Kirby161
Jul-30-2005, 10:05am
Ive worked in politics for a while and I know the DA works but that wont get ron to improve his service. It will make him angry and unlikely to want to continue with such customers.

If you want to have the quality mandolins that you crave and have them in a timely manner, start a petition or a form letter. It is vey effective for somebody to see the number of people that are irritated or want a change.

It works in politics, it might work in bussiness.

Moose
Jul-30-2005, 12:57pm
I mean no "harm/bad feelings" ; but... surely-to-goodness there are OTHERS(builders) out there who are building QUALITY instruments(i.e. mandolins...etc.) - I've been seeing/lurking this Ron Oates" thing for 12-18!??# months now! - Based on all I've read here..., why would anyone order/buy from this character..!!http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif## - Are his instruments THAT GOOD!http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif - Are they worth ulcers..., tempers..., lost deposits$$ - Thank's for letting me "vent" = just my .02 - Moose.

frankseanez
Aug-02-2005, 1:52pm
I don't claim to know whether RonO will be doing anything other than making mandos and consigning them to music stores in the Boulder area. My resolution of this matter is a matter of record in this thread. But having played my RonO since around Valentine's Day 2005, I've gotta say once again that it is BY FAR the best electric mandolin that I've ever played. The sustain, the tone, the workmanship, it's all there!

Frank

wmr
Aug-02-2005, 2:00pm
I must agree with Frank. My Rono is so hard to put down. It is the best electric mandolin I have ever played. (Have not played a schwab yet) I also have a Mann 5 string which I do love and is a fantastic instrument and for the price cannot be beat. I got my rono used from the classifieds here so I did not have to deal with Ron Oates and his fine customer service.

Kirby161
Aug-03-2005, 12:28pm
i gotta know, how does the manndolin compare with the rono? the schwab?

wmr
Aug-04-2005, 12:04pm
Kirby,

The Rono and the Mann both great 5 string electrics. Although they are very different. First my Rono has a fixed bridge with Graphite saddles like a strat or tele. THe Mann has a movable bridge and ebony tailpiece.
THe Rono play's more like a guitar due to the wide string spacing. Bends are eaiser but tremelo picking acroos 2 or more strings is more difficult. My Mann is super easy for tremelo picking but with the smaller string spacing bends are harder due to the fact the you are basically bending 2 strings to get to a 1-2 step bend.

My Mann has a cool rails singlespace humbucker init with a push pull on the tone knob for series/paraell switch. The Rono has 2 bill lawarence humbuckers in it with each having a phase switch for both pickups. I get more sounds with my rono due to the extra pickup. I really have a hard time putting down the rono. It is my favorite instrument period. Basically I use the Rono when i want to rip like a guitar and I use the mann when I am tring to still get that traditional mandolin sound with the 5 string.

Sorry this was so long.

WMR

mandroid
Aug-31-2005, 12:47pm
Actually got 2 phone calls from Ron, now another further revised delivery promised date has passed, Talk IS cheap. as is well known...

Tom C
Aug-31-2005, 1:11pm
But at least he called you instead of you having to chase him around. When I ordered a custom mando, I did not order it to have for a specific event so if it was 1 month or 6 months late, I could have dealt with it. As long as the builder maintains contact. Just like if I loan a friend money, I do not expect to have to ask them for it.

mandroid
Aug-31-2005, 11:44pm
I'm talking several years, by now, 3 at least. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Moose
Sep-01-2005, 10:06am
Outta' be a good one - when/if you EVER get it. I must admit I could/would not take the aggrevation - Good luck & keep us "posted". http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Don Grieser
Sep-02-2005, 2:03pm
I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw a Rono instrument booth at RockyGrass. I didn't go in--don't know if he was actually there or not. There were instruments hanging up in there, though. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

frankseanez
Sep-05-2005, 5:04pm
Golly! If one could be picked off the rack, that would be a real bonus!!http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

mangolin
Feb-01-2006, 1:40pm
thank you, thank you, thank you to the brave souls who started this thread, without which I would have traveled to Colorado and would now be a fugitive, if you catch my drift. #I haven't posted here, and I'm posting anonymously, because I still hope that somehow Ron will remember me and make my instrument, and I guess I'm afraid that he'll look here and see my name and get resentful and never finish it. #I am over 15 months past delivery date (NOT order date, delivery date) and while some delay is understandable, I could have planted my mandolin in the back yard and had a baby mandolin tree with some ripe ones ready to pick by now, so I'm getting a bit sore. #Like everyone else, I ordered before I saw this thread, and Ron was courteous and warm and such before he had my money. #So, if there are a few other people out there in Rono limbo, I'd be willing to go to the DA, as others have done, in a group. #That way Ron won't have just one bad apple he can focus his spite on, and we might get some instruments before we're pushing up daisies.

mandroid
Feb-01-2006, 2:23pm
Sent to the last known address, registered mail was returned undelivered.
guess I get to send it to go in the Boulder D.A.s folder.

Moose
Feb-01-2006, 2:37pm
FYI: I thought I saw where Chas. Johnson(Mandolin World Hqtrs.) has a RONO for sale in CAFE classified. (NO "reflection" on Charles - he's OK in my book - AND!?, it could be a great mando!?) - Just thought I'd mention this info. Moose. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

mangolin
Feb-02-2006, 12:46am
yeah, i guess he's moved a couple of times. #i do have a phone number, but he doesn't answer his phone, so that may not be much help. #i'd like to ask any of the other rono owners out there if they feel like they got bum mandos after going through the DA's office. #old man knipes mentioned problems, and i'm wondering if anyone else feels the same way.

frankseanez
Feb-02-2006, 5:12pm
My satisfaction with Homer is a matter of record on this thread. I'm still satisfied.

Moose
Feb-02-2006, 5:49pm
Hey! - THAT'S what matters! - If, in fact it is a "keeper"..,it's YOUR investment, to you & your ears it's "pleasing", who's to throw the stones!? - Would you "order" another mando from him...!?? - If I have/buy/bought a mando (or other instrument) that I - personaly - am pleased with but the builder was proven/shown to be "shady", a crook(illegal "person.., etc.) - or "other", I probably would have "second thoughts re: "ordering/buying from him AGAIN! - the/my mandolin: love it!(a very subjective opinion ; but it should be...) - The business practices/habits of the luthier in question..? Who cares! Enjoy your mandolin - and the music you create with it. PHEW!! - OK, I'm outta' here.. Moose. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

mangolin
Feb-02-2006, 10:29pm
Thanks Frank. The old man knipes thing still gives me the heebie-jeebies, but based on the amount and the quality of contact I've had with Ron, I'm sort of afraid that if I don't go legal on him that I will never ever hear from him ever again. He has not ever initiated any contact with me. Grumble, grumble.

Kid Charlemagne
Feb-04-2006, 3:02am
As to the Mike Orlando thing, I think we covered that on this board when the mando first popped up for sale, but I can't seem to find it now. IIRC he stopped playing entirely..
Methinks you have him confused with Matt Mundy.

Mike Orlando has gone through a LOT of mandolins; I think he ended up with a Loar. He's taking a break from Cast Iron Filter and doing a solo project in Nashville.
He's got a Montoleone Grand Artist, but no Loar. At least, not that I'm aware.

frankseanez
Feb-06-2006, 5:13pm
Oh, and by the way, Homer can play a mean Pennsylvania Polka (aka The Old School Steeler Fight Song)!

mandodave5
Feb-22-2006, 5:45pm
mangolin,
I currently have a file open (ie complaint) with Claire Hunter at the Boulder County DA's office. I'm 13 months past due

mangolin
Feb-23-2006, 12:24pm
thanks mandodave-
how long ago did you file? #has filing had any impact at all? #have you heard from ron, or has claire hunter said she heard from him? #did she mention to you what the consequences for ron were if he just ignored her? #i think if i decided to file i might just have a lawyer do it for me, just to add some teeth to the thing.

Moose
Feb-23-2006, 2:12pm
But..., I understand he builds a great mandolin! - http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

mangolin
Feb-23-2006, 2:33pm
Thanks moose. #I'll report on that when i get one, if i haven't got arthritis by then. #if i am too old to play it, i guess i'll just post it in the classifieds. #if his instruments really are as good as rumored to be, i should be able to get a good price for a ron oates mando without the usual half decade in delivery time.

Moose
Feb-23-2006, 3:54pm
Jus' josh'n ya' mangolin ; I really hope you get your mando quick-like AND it's a "keeper" . It just amazes me that what with all the "problems" with RONO, folks still order..., wait.., seek legal recourse..., etc. As I stated in a long-ago post here, I have no doubt that there are OTHER luthiers building just-as-good OR perhaps better instruments than RONO..., with better "delivery-time". I - seriously - would like to know how you make out w. Ron and his mandolins. I see that Chas. Johnson(MandoWorldHqters) has a RONO for sale - AND it ain't goi'n CHEAP - AND Charles knows his mandos! - Thanks for posting. Moose. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

mangolin
Feb-23-2006, 4:19pm
no worries, moose. #i agree completely that if i had seen this thread before i ordered, i wouldn't have ordered from ron. #i'm sure there are a lot of builders who are just as good technically and an awful lot better personalitywise. #i'm just glad i saw it when i did or else i'd have gone insane by now. #i'm not sure if people are still ordering from him- my belief is that they are, because it seems that ron's m.o. is to schmooze money out of people and wait as long as possible before he has to do any work for that money. #all i can hope is that new buyers have found this thread and either passed on rono or gone into this knowing what to expect- ulcers. #full disclosure and ratings as soon as i get my mando- i promise. and thanks for the good karma.

Lee
Feb-23-2006, 6:56pm
I wish ya luck too.
I'm amazed no one's actually tracked the man down physically, and seen his workshop. The guy can't be making a living doing this. What's up with him?

mandodave5
Feb-24-2006, 12:08pm
Manjolin,
I filed with the Boulder County DA in September after Rono stopped returning and/or acknowledging my calls. As per my last conversation with him, his landlord had "sold his building" and he was having to move. He seemed really pissed off that I was calling (bad timing understandablly), but I his customer...a fact that seems to allude him. Since Rono's "forced" relocation in September/October, there has been no correspondence and it was at that point that I summoned Claire Hunter. Rono is gone...for all intents and purposes. The post office has no forwarding address and all subpoenas from Claire Hunter are undelivered, E-mails aren't being returned and his phone (which is useless anyhow)is always answered by the machine. Claire says he is now working a full-time job and living in a trailer park across the street from her office...(at least I think she said it was across the street). NOt that there is anything wrong with a trailer park http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif, but it is painting a picture of the person to whom I entrusted with over $2000 at this point. I wish I had seen this thread before hand...but what can I do.

Lee
Feb-27-2006, 6:10pm
Post removed by moderator

wmr
Mar-04-2006, 7:39am
Posted removed by moderator

Scott Tichenor
Mar-04-2006, 9:52am
I've removed the previous two posts and will remind everyone that any suggestion that involves "showing up" at someone's residence to resolve a dispute is against the posting guidelines of this community. Specifically:

· Any threat or suggestion of physical violence in a disagreement is grounds for immediate suspension of membership.

These comments may have been made in jest, but this guideline still applies. No one's posting privileges are being removed here but I think the line of what is appropriate was crossed.

delsbrother
Mar-04-2006, 3:27pm
So... What's the story with this one? (http://www.vintagemandolin.com/05ronoatsf5_030805.html)

Moose
Mar-06-2006, 11:54am
Wellll, allow me to say THIS about THAT! - discounting the "flak" re: Ron O..., it IS a good "looker"(interesting "color" ; nice inlay - 'least so in the pic!!) I suggest : CALL/ TALK with Chas. Johnson @ MWQ's ; I have had many "dealings" with Charles - as buyer/seller/swapper!! - Charles is a "straight-up" person/dealer AND he KNOWS mandolins! - It MAY be worth every penny asked(i.e tone, workmanship...etc.) BUT..., if you would need to contact Mssr. OATES for workmanship "correction", background history.., a need(ed) repair(s)....etc.. now THAT(!) may prove difficult!?# - based on RONO's "track record". BUTTT, if it's built as it should be -in the beginning - there ARE other excellent, reputable and qualified luthiers around that could/would ($$$$) repair any serious "problems" - I - personaly - WOULD buy THAT mando - at a "best price" from Charles(but my MAS is in temporary remission!#). If Charles say's it's a GOOD mando, discounting RONO's "customer relation" quirks - GO for it. Hope this helps - Keep us posted on your decision(s) - Moose. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Lee
Mar-06-2006, 6:22pm
Yep, that one's a looker for sure. The close-ups really show off some consistent fret dressings.
He's truly a mystery.

jefflester
Mar-06-2006, 9:19pm
"Ron Oats is a small builder out of Colorado that has successfully eluded the bluegrass police." #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Moose
Mar-07-2006, 11:16am
He's also eluded several others - name-ly costomers who give him....MONEY-FOR-MANDO! - http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

mandodave5
Mar-07-2006, 3:06pm
To those interested, I just recieved an E-mail from Claire Hunter at the Boulder County DA's Office. She confirms that he is "gone" and that she will let me know as soon as he resurfaces. The letter stated that his landlord has not recieved any rent payments from him, his house/trailer is empty (though furnished) and his mailing address does not "accept" the mail sent there. I don't know, I'm fed up and nearly out of options. I can't afford a REAL lawyer right now, and all other avenues are dead ends. Rono should be sentenced to an internment camp that would operate like Santa's workshot. Quota, quota, quota...you dick.

manjitsu
Mar-07-2006, 7:20pm
How (or why) does an individual who is supposedly "gone" and no longer building manage to keep a website up advertising his services?

The sad fact is that he is not by any means gone, and he remains to this day perfectly willing to take money from anyone who is unfortunate enough to send it his way, with the promise of a mandolin to follow.

It's really a bummer to read all of these unfortunate experiences... I think the best thing to come of this thread is that when one does a google search on "Ron Oates mandolins", this thread surfaces very quickly.

wmr
Mar-08-2006, 12:50pm
I would suggest everyone who has been ripped off or is being ignored by Mr Oates get together and pitch in to hire a private investigator and find out where he is and then give the information to the DA and see where it goes. Doubtful they would do anything anyway. However since you either mailed him a check and or paypal or some kind of credit card transaction this possibly makes this a federal fraud case. Unless you all live in CO. I had posted previously (Removed by the admin) that someone should pay him a visit. I was not suggesting any kind of violent confrontation or actions and I agree you should let the law do its job and not take matters into your own hands. I would like to apologize to Scott T for my previous post, since it did cause a problem. I love this site and do not want to be removed from being able to post.

mandodave5
Mar-09-2006, 12:34pm
WMR,
I think that is a good idea. All Rono customers involved should pull funds to hire someone to get this thing taken care of. We can start a union...maybe the National Coalition of Pissed-Off Rono Customers (NCPORC). Do some picketing outside of his trailer home...it could be an interesting event. Seriously though, I think those of us who have percievably been taken advantage of should group together to get some kind of closure from this frustrating situation. I JUST WANT ME MANDO!

berkeleymando
Mar-17-2006, 5:35pm
I'm shocked that this thread still persists! Tragic.

Ted Eschliman
Mar-17-2006, 6:07pm
Just a polite reminder that Scott has made it very clear that even the suggestion, whether in jest or not, of gathering and physically showing up at somebody's place risks cross-litigation and threatens the existence of the Discussion Board.

We can sympathize with the animosity and ill will, but let's not make this dreadful situation even worse.

mangolin
Mar-26-2006, 8:17pm
Here's the real deal- It's mangolin, AKA Karl Mueller of San Francisco, CA. #I actually never heard String Cheese until after I ordered this instrument- I talked to a number of makers about baritone instruments, octave instruments, etc., and decided that Ron was the best bet. #Also, he promised the instrument the second quickest. #Ha ha. #Anyway, I found Rono's address- I'm too nice to put his contact info up here, but Claire Hunter at the DA's office has it as well. #I've taken some of the personal info out of here, but here is the cover letter and blow by blow account that I am filing with the 20th district court in Boulder tomorrow. #I'm putting this up because I'm not angry anymore, just in a state of disbelief that Ron has managed to keep treating his customers in this fashion, and it needs to stop. #


This letter is to express my intent to file a lawsuit against Ron Oates of Boulder, Colorado. #The attached excel spreadsheet lists the particulars of my relationship with Mr. Oates and the dates on which certain transactions occurred. #My telephone company did not have access to some of the monthly bills on which interaction occurred, but the third column on the spreadsheet lists those dates for which I have enclosed verification of telephone contact. #In addition, my banking company has supplied verification of the dates when I sent Mr. Oates checks and the dates on which he cashed those checks. #

My intent is to pursue recovery of the money I sent Mr. Oates, plus interest compounded at 6% per annum, as well as any money I have to spend on legal fees and (if necessary) travel to Boulder to appear in court. #

Mr. Oates promised me when I ordered the instrument in September of 2004 that it would be completed by Christmas of that year. #I am not upset by the temporal delay, but by Mr. Oates utter lack of effort to communicate his status and the status of my instrument. #On the times that I have had brief contact with him, he has been arrogant and unapologetic for having now taken over 19 months to complete a job he promised me would take 2 months. #

Since part of my income is performing, I have had to purchase a replacement instrument to continue to pursue my livelihood, so my first choice would be to have Mr. Oates simply compensate me monetarily. #I am anxious as to the quality of an instrument Mr. Oates will produce if he does so under legal duress. # #

My recent contact with Claire Hunter, the Boulder County DA, has been upsetting. #She explained that she now has 4 people who have filed similar complaints with her, but she is unable to locate Mr. Oates to deliver these complaints and mail delivered to his previously known address has been returned as undeliverable. #I have no choice at this point but to believe that Ron Oates does not have any intention of completing my instrument and has stolen my money. #As I recently was able to find an address for Mr. Oates, I have given this information to Claire Hunter and am now going forward with my suit, as the Sheriff’s Office will now know where to find Mr. Oates to serve him his papers. #If you need any further information, please do not hesitate to contact me. #


DATE ACTION
9/?/2004 I contacted Ron Oates in Bolder, CO. and left him a message about making me a custom mandolin.

9/?/2004 Ron Oates called me and I spoke with him about the particular appointments and specifications of the instrument. #We entered into a verbal contract whereby he would build me a mandolin for the price of $3000 which would be done by Christmas. #Half of the agreed upon price of $3000 would be paid up front and the other half would be payable upon delivery. #

10/4/2004 Ron Oates called me and said that he needed the money as soon as possible to buy parts for my mandolin. #I express mailed him a check for $1500.

10/12/2004 Ron Oates cashed my check.

10/?/2004 I called Ron Oates to discuss the particular custom appointments for my mandolin and left a message on his answering machine.

12/?/2004 I called Ron Oates and explained that I was upset at his complete lack of communication since he cashed my check, and told him that if he was unable to fulfill our contract, he should return the $1500 I sent him. #

12/?/2004 I found a discussion board at Mandolincafe.com, in which several people discussed having similar problems with Ron Oates, to the point where they had contacted the Boulder County DA to resolve their situation. #One poster mentioned that after he had gone this legal route, Ron Oates sent him an inferior instrument.

12/?/2004 Not wanting to make Ron angry, I sent him an email explaining that I was not trying to pressure him or rush his work, but I would appreciate it if he would contact me to discuss the status of my instrument. #

12/27/2004 Ron Oates called me and told me that he would have my mandolin completed by January 31, 2005.

2/24/2005 I called Ron Oates and left a message asking him to please contact me regarding the status of my instrument.

4/3/2005 I called Ron Oates and left a message asking him to please contact me regarding the status of my instrument.

4/10/2005 I called Ron Oates and left a message asking him to please contact me regarding the status of my instrument.

4/24/2005 I called Ron Oates and got a busy signal. #I called back and got Ron Oates live. #He told me that my mandolin was almost complete, but he needed me to send him half of the remaining balance so he could set up a spray booth and complete the instrument, which would be complete within one month of his receipt of the money.

4/25/2005 I mailed Ron Oates a check for $750, and left him a message that the money was on the way.

5/2/2005 Ron Oates cashed my check.

5/12/2005 I called Ron Oates and left a message asking him to please contact me regarding receipt of the check I sent him.

6/13/2005 I called Ron Oates and left a message asking him to please contact me regarding the status of my instrument.

6/24/2005 I called Ron Oates and left a message asking him to please contact me regarding the status of my instrument.

6/29/2005 I called Ron Oates and left a message asking him to please contact me regarding the status of my instrument.

7/2/2005 I called Ron Oates and left a message asking him to please contact me regarding the status of my instrument.

7/9/2005 I called Ron Oates and left a message asking him to please contact me regarding the status of my instrument.

9/5/2005 I called Ron Oates, who answered. #He explained that he was finally up and running after a break and would have my mandolin finished by the end of September.

11/6/2005 I called Ron Oates and left him a message that I had a big performance at New Year's and wanted to know if my instrument would be ready or if I needed to find another one to use for this performance.

11/13/2005 I called Ron Oates and left him a message assuring him that it would be ok if my instrument would not be done by my concert date, but that I just wanted to know for sure or not if I needed to find a replacement instrument, and again asked him to contact me.

11/15/2005 I called Ron Oates and asked him to contact me regarding the status of my instrument, as I was concerned about my upcoming show.

11/16/2005 I called Ron Oates and asked him to contact me regarding the status of my instrument, as I was concerned about my upcoming show.

11/17/2005 I called Ron Oates and asked him to contact me regarding the status of my instrument, as I was concerned about my upcoming show.

11/18/2005 I called Ron Oates and asked him to contact me regarding the status of my instrument, as I was concerned about my upcoming show.

11/19/2005 I called Ron Oates and asked him to contact me regarding the status of my instrument, as I was concerned about my upcoming show.

11/21/2005 I called Ron Oates and asked him to contact me regarding the status of my instrument, as I was concerned about my upcoming show.

11/22/2005 I called Ron Oates and asked him to contact me regarding the status of my instrument, as I was concerned about my upcoming show.

11/23/2005 I called Ron Oates and asked him to contact me regarding the status of my instrument, as I was concerned about my upcoming show.

11/24/2005 I called Ron Oates regarding the status of my instrument, as I was concerned about my upcoming show. #I got a busy signal, so figuring that he was home, I tried to call back three times. #The fourth time his machine answered, and I again left him a message asking him to contact me regarding the status of my instrument.

11/25/2005 I called Ron Oates and again received a busy signal. #I called back and received another busy signal. #On my third attempt Ron Oates answered the phone. #He was angry and told me I was pestering him. #He told me that when someone pesters him it makes him want to stop working and go skiing for a week. #I explained that I needed to know whether my instrument would be ready for NewYear's Eve or if I needed to find another one. #He laughed and said, "You think you can find another Ron Oates Mandolin?" #I said that I just needed an instrument to play the gig. #He asked me when I needed it by. #I told him within 2 weeks, so I could get a feel for it before the performance. #He told me he could get it done by then and said he would call me when he was ready to ship it. #

11/26/2005 Not wanting to seem combatitive, I left Ron a message explaining that I was excited about the mandolin and looked forward to playing it and wasn't angry, just concerned with trying to get everything in line for the show.

2/26/2006 I left Ron Oates a message asking him to please contact me regarding the status of my instrument.

3/8/2006 I left Ron Oates a message explaining that I could send him the rest of the money if that would help, but that I needed his address.

3/9/2006 Ron Oates left me a message, saying that lately he obviously hadn't been "too into making instruments," but that he was now "more into it," and was back in business.

3/8/2006 I called Claire Hunter at the Boulder County D.A.'s office and appraised her of the situation. #She told me that she had 3 other people in the same situation, but that she was unable to take any action against Ron Oates, because she was unable to locate him. #

3/12/2006 I called Ron Oates and asked him to contact me so we could discuss how to move forward.

3/16/2006 Claire Hunter called me and informed me that she had located Ron Oates and was going to send him a letter explaining that if he did not contact all of his overdue clients by Friday, March 24, she was going to advise them to take him to small claims court.

3/26/2006 I prepared my papers to sue Ron Oates and posted them in hopes of alerting any of my mandolin swinging brethren and sistren against making the same mistake. #I'll keep y'all posted.
Peace, Karl

Jason Kessler
Mar-26-2006, 9:08pm
What a shame. I keep reading this thread assuming that I'll eventually come upon a message that explains that there was a miscommunication, that the writer had indeed received the contracted-for instrument, and that he/she loves it. Happily, this is an isolated story, and all of the other small manufacturers are people of their word.

Scott Tichenor
Mar-26-2006, 10:37pm
Karl, thanks for the detailed information. This is one of the longest and most troubling stories. I removed all of the contact information I had in the builder database as it probably wasn't good anyway, and removed any links to his site in the Eye Candy section some time back.

I would encourage those of you with pending orders to communicate collectively amongst yourselves and find a solution using the legal system. Appears the D.A.'s office is listening so that's a real positive step.

This is also a reminder that we should all pay close attention to our communications in any business dealing--not just with builders, but also in buying and selling instruments ourselves--and keep detailed records including dates and what transpired and what the specific agreemnets were. You may rarely need this information, but when you do, you'll certainly be glad you have it.

mangolin
Mar-27-2006, 4:24am
Thanks Scott. I think that taking him off the list is probably the right thing to do.

And, like others have mentioned when they've posted, I'm not a vindictive or angry person. The people concerned here are mandolin players- folkies, grassers, jazzheads- it's not like he's not delivering contraband to convicted felons with guns and chips on their shoulders to begin with- we're probably all pretty mellow people who would have been glad to come to some sort of compromise. What a huge bummer, for a number of reasons.

I've talked to a lawyer and he said that lawyers weren't necessary in small claims court, when the facts of the case were generally a he said/she said sort of thing, and legalese was generally not the issue.

I'm glad to be the guinea pig and let everyone know how this turns out. If it turns out well and is relatively painless, I'll let you know where to eat dinner when you get to Boulder for your day in court.

Karl

mrmando
Mar-27-2006, 7:23pm
If steaks and game are your thing, try Red Lion Inn (http://www.fodors.com/miniguides/mgresults.cfm?destination=boulder@250&cur_section=din&property_id=141133).

Steven Stone
Mar-28-2006, 10:38am
I live just down the road from the Red Lion Inn. Not in the running as my favorite. Best thing about it is the drive.

Try Dolans, Full Moon Grill, The Sunflower Cafe, The Mediteranian, or The Boulder Cork. All are fine places for a victory dinner.

Moose
Mar-28-2006, 10:49am
....but where's Ron Oates!?? - http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Jason Kessler
Mar-28-2006, 10:17pm
Only a Moose, or maybe a Hoss, would bring up the subject of Oates when we're talking about putting on the feedbag...

johnrhaupert
Mar-29-2006, 10:04am
So, does anybody know of any builders who are just as good as or better than rono at building 5-string electrics?

Ted Eschliman
Mar-29-2006, 11:44am
Earnest Instruments (http://earnestinstruments.com/swampcat.html)

Jonathan Mann (http://manndolins.com/electric_manndolins.htm)

From what I understand mortgage payments on their trailers are current...
But seriously Joel and Jon are the best! Great craftsmen and terrific to work with. Personal experience, they do what they say they will do.

mandofiddle
Mar-29-2006, 11:58am
Does anybody know about these instruments?

http://www.sjryder.com/

They sure look pretty hot and tempting. Especially that EM-55...

http://www.sjryder.com/EM-54.htm

johnrhaupert
Mar-29-2006, 1:59pm
I really prefer the way that rono's look (well not the standard, but the one that Kang currently plays and the Dragon). Are luthiers like this willing to model after other luthier's designs?

delsbrother
Mar-29-2006, 3:28pm
I really prefer the way that rono's look (well not the standard, but the one that Kang currently plays and the Dragon). Are luthiers like this willing to model after other luthier's designs?
What, and risk prosecution??

johnrhaupert
Mar-30-2006, 6:46am
Well Ibanez and other guitar companies always rip off strat and les paul designs.

Ted Eschliman
Mar-30-2006, 8:51am
Darrell, your subtle humor never fails to slay me...
But you forget, some prison facilities include an extensive law library. Perhaps the subject of the thread could sue from behind bars, all that time on his hands. Beats making license plates, and they're not likely to allow any mandolin-making tools.

jmcgann
Mar-30-2006, 12:17pm
Two big thumbs up for the work of Earnest Instruments and SJRyder- I can vouch for both of these excellent builders from the State O' Maine in terms of quality and reliability; they are also great human beings and two people that I consider to be friends. Please tell them I said hello if you contact either of them!

sam b
Mar-30-2006, 1:42pm
There's Michael Stevens. His mandolins are great. Paul Glasse plays one (it's not called the Paul Glasse Model for nuthin'). I think Don Stiernberg, Tom Rozum and Barry Mitterhoff also own them. Stevens has quite a history in the electric guitar biz also.

wmr
Mar-30-2006, 1:43pm
Let us not forget that Rono does build a great electric 5 string mando even though his business dealings maybe shady.
I love my Rono!!!!

mangolin
Apr-04-2006, 8:03pm
wmr, you know as well as I, there is another place on this website where you can say NICE things about Mr. Oates. #Never once have i disputed his luthiership(?) THIS thread is regarding his lack of customer service. #

After I posted on here I actually called him (a week ago) and said that I didn't want to go legal on him, but he had been inattentive, unprofessional and irresponsible and I was tired of it, so he had a week to refund my money. #He called me back at 6:30am (a time that I refer to as "still nighttime") the next day and said he'd call me that evening. #That was 8 days ago. #Nothing since. #And, y'all may be surprised, I have not received a check in the mail from him. #So, today, my entire package went in the mail. #Unfortunately, however, I am unable to sue for travel money, so the Boulder County Clerk just asked me to add a note to my papers saying that I wanted to attend via telephone. #Therefore, I will not be able to sample any of Boulder's finest culinary delights on Mr. Oates' tab. #So I will have to stick to eating what all San Franciscans enjoy... burritos. #This website is an awesome place to look for a burrito in the bay area. I wish it was my idea.
http://www.burritoeater.com/
Further details as events warrant.
Karl

Jason Kessler
Apr-05-2006, 8:26am
Wishing you the best of luck, Karl.

wmr
Apr-05-2006, 12:14pm
Karl,

I am with you 110 percent. I was just responding to the posts after for other builders. I was looking to have Rono build me a new 5 string but since I have read this thread I am looking for a used one. Doubt I'll ever get that lucky again. Good Luck Mon Frere!!!!

mangolin
Apr-05-2006, 12:37pm
Jason, wmr, thanks. Appreciate it. And you're probably right, wmr, I'm sure he builds a great instrument. But even if he built on a molecule-by-molecule basis, he should have been done with it by now. The biggest bummer is that I only have an acoustic mandolin and an electric guitar, so if I wanted to pracice to learn the position of notes or scale fingerings I've had to take the lowest string off my electric and capo it at the 6th fret to simulate the scale length, etc. But now it seems that may not pan out. I have tendonitis and relatively small hands, which was my whole reason for looking for an alternative to the larger scale of a guitar. Maybe I'll just grow a mullet and get one of those synthesizer-thingy-that-wants-to-be-shaped-like-a-guitar instruments from the '80's. I heard retro is in.
Karl

mrmando
Apr-05-2006, 3:48pm
We need a "Givens Legacy"-type situation here: Rono sells the rights to his designs, etc. to someone who can produce the instruments on a consistent basis. Maybe you should've sued him for THAT, Karl. Lesson to be learned here, for luthiers who are victims of their own success: You can either stop taking orders for a while (Gilchrist, Dudenbostel, Kimble); hire more production staff and build a bigger shop (Rigel); or completely flake out (you know who).

alsouissi
Apr-22-2006, 8:38am
Post removed by moderator.

Jerry Byers
Apr-22-2006, 8:44am
Does "lion's den" mean anything to you? It's your first post and you want to get in the middle of this unfortunate mess!?

Moose
Apr-24-2006, 10:12am
That RONO - what a guy! - http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

mandodave5
Apr-26-2006, 2:04pm
If anyone is thinking of hiring a REAL lawyer (Boulder DA Claire Hunter can only do so much of course)to either get money back from RONO (unlikely) or get the mandolins we have paid for (also unlikely), I would be interested in going in to file a joint-claim. I have been waiting for 1.5 years now and have heard very little...in fact, nothing in 12months. I can't afford a lawyer on my own, but some of you in the same situation have expressed interest in the past of going after this collectively. I live in New York, but can always be reached if someone is willing to take more steadfast action. Email me by my handle @yahoo.com.

Tom C
Apr-26-2006, 2:15pm
It's hard to sue somebody for something they do not have. $$. You may have more luck trying to get the mando you ordered compared to your money back. How about small claims court where you do not need a laywer?

It sounds like he got into the typical "contractor" dilemer where he relied on somebody else's down payment to complete another persons mando. Then ran out of money.

FlawLaw
Apr-26-2006, 2:28pm
It will probably be hard to collect even if you get a judgment - particularly if the guy has no money or has a ton of judgments against him already.

mangolin
Apr-26-2006, 3:35pm
the latest from my end:

small claims courts do not allow legal representation. #that's why i'm going that route. #and yes, collection could be tough, but as i've already purchased a replacement instrument, so as not to forfeit any more gigs than i did in the first 15 or so months of waiting for an instrument, i no longer need a mandolin. #in addition, in any interactions i've had with ron oates where i even hinted at being the least little tiny itsy bitsy bit less than overjoyed with his schedule, etc., he has gotten angry and said that if i didn't like the way things were going he would just stop working on my instrument all together. #hence, i am somewhat concerned about the quality of an instrument he would produce if done so under legal duress. #

so, the likelihood of getting all of my money back in a timely manner is small. #the likelihood of getting most of my money back in an untimely manner is pretty good, according to the members of the boulder county district court system with whom i have conferred. #it's what i feel is the best choice out of a collection of bad choices. #and again, i'm not angry or attempting to financially ruin someone, i just want to move on while having to pay as little as possible for the lesson i have learned here. #

i'll keep y'all posted when i have a definite court date. #

karl

oh, and i think tom c is correct. i think ron's m.o. was to pay april's bills with may's money, and he was able to do that for a while because he made some instruments for some famous people. i think that as word got out about his service difficulties, the flow of money coming in ebbed, so he wasn't able to keep going in this fashion. a bummer for those of us who sent him some money, but probably a good thing for the mandolin world overall, and certainly a great thing for other electric luthiers who simply keep in touch with their clients and make realistic schedules for themselves.

Moose
Apr-26-2006, 3:57pm
mangolin: Thanks for keeping us "posted" - Regards and good luck. Moose. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

FlawLaw
Apr-26-2006, 4:26pm
small claims courts do not allow legal representation. #
That's really odd. I represent people in New York in small claims court all the time. I appeared in one a few weeks ago and have seven more scheduled in May and June. Granted it one is more likely to find pro se claimants, but at least in New York it is becoming more common to find attorneys.

jim simpson
Apr-26-2006, 4:45pm
FlawLaw,
Are the settlement limits sufficient to make it worthwhile to hire a lawyer for small claims court?
mangolin,
Thanks also for keeping us up on this - very interesting!
Good luck!
Jim

FlawLaw
Apr-26-2006, 5:44pm
FlawLaw,
Are the settlement limits sufficient to make it worthwhile to hire a lawyer for small claims court?
mangolin,
Thanks also for keeping us up on this - very interesting!
Good luck!
Jim
I will answer via PM.

mangolin
Apr-26-2006, 9:49pm
sorry- for the record, i meant that lawyers were not required in small claims court, not not allowed. #just my bad verbage during hasty typing.

Cetecea
May-25-2006, 9:37am
All prices include instrument, case and delivery within the continental USA. If you have any questions regarding any of our products, do not hesitate to email Rono. He enjoys working one-to-one with his customers.


From his website. I couldn't get past the irony of it...

Moose
May-25-2006, 10:18am
ah!..., that RONO, what a guy!! - http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

mangolin
Jun-05-2006, 12:59pm
the latest from my end-

i just got off the phone with the boulder county sheriff's dept, and they have been to ron's apparent abode many times over the last month, but either he is not home or doesn't answer the door, so they have not yet been able to serve him for our court date next month. my next step is to hire a private server, which will be more effective but eat into the money that ron owes me. eeeek. the saga continues....

go ahead moose. it's your turn. we're all waiting for it.

karl

Moose
Jun-05-2006, 2:06pm
Yeah buddy!! - That RONO! - What a guy!! (seriously...,good luck!) - http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

mandroid
Jun-05-2006, 8:24pm
As another aggrieved customer , I am willing to be part of some class action suit, and share some costs to get some of my$1250 back. enough of us chorus in 'me too' and maybe its pushing past the limits of small claims court. for good or additional complication..

mangolin
Jun-05-2006, 11:39pm
ok mandroid- that's two of us. #i'm not sure how many more there are. #i think that one potential difficulty could be the length of time we've waited for our instruments- that is, could the judge say that six months is a reasonable delay for a handcrafted instrument, but more than that is not, etc? #in addition, since some people are in the hole for more than others, how would compensation work? #if we all got the same amount of money, some of us would get 100% of their investment back, some perhaps 50%. i also have no idea how much legal representation will cost, etc. so, i think there are some unpressed shirts that need starching before we decide to go in as a group. #however, given the difficulty that the court is having in finding ron and serving him with my suit, it may be that the only way for us all to get anywhere is to sacrifice some of our money and do it as a group.

if there is anyone else out there in this uncomfortable boat, you can let me know via pm or whatever. #being almost two years into this and having enough self knowledge to know that ulcers on ron's behalf do not serve me, i have sort of passed through the fire of pain and the chill of agony part and gotten to bemused curiosity, kind of like gandalf. #but i do feel badly for anyone who is earlier in the process, who is still holding out against hope. #it stinks. #we could have all taken up the electric kazoo and become virtuosos in all that time that we spent playing our capoed guitars with one string taken off or whatever in eager anticipation of our rono. #

karl

Ken Sager
Jun-08-2006, 12:58pm
Joke, or real? Ron Oates posted an ad:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin....trieval (http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?search_and_display_db_button=on&db_id=19052&query=retrieval)

mrmando
Jun-08-2006, 1:13pm
Wow, that's ugly.

But if you buy it, then Rono will have enough $ to pay off mangolin, mandroid, and two or three other angry cats...

Tom C
Jun-08-2006, 1:43pm
Ugly yes, 5 pickups -pretty cool.
He says $7500 or Best offer. Offer $300.

dang
Jun-08-2006, 2:11pm
mangolin-maybe you could have the boulder county sheriff's dept check Michael Kang's mando out for you! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

edit: I do mean this sarcastically!...a lot of communication to leave up to a little winking smiley face...

Scott Tichenor
Jun-08-2006, 3:50pm
The IP address matches his area of the country. I say it's likely legit. Let's keep it civil folks. I don't endorse his business practices and wait list issues, but that doesn't give anyone the right the hassle someone making a sale as long as they're honest on that end. I've given him a window in which to respond to me to check if it's legit. If not, it'll be gone at some point soon.

Lee
Jun-08-2006, 4:55pm
If I was playng a Rono in public, I'd put black masking tape over the headstock so no one out in the crowd who's still waiting for theirs would get upset.

mandroid
Jun-09-2006, 3:33pm
Heads Up , He's got stuff to sell listed in the Classifieds, buyers beware the $7000 could just disapear and you get nothing but empty promises.

I checked back...Its gone , I may not have been the only "wheres my money" reply.. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

now its there again ad# 19068
listed (303) 545 2623 phone

Lee
Jun-09-2006, 4:31pm
Maybe Scott deleted it.
That F-hole looked monstrously large and ditorted.

dang
Jun-13-2006, 11:54am
Like mandroid posted above, IT'S BACK

Add Number: # 19068
Date Posted: #06/10/2006

Makes me wonder if Scott really did delete it or not!

edit: I had questioned if indeed it was Michael Kang's mandolin (I imagine he will hold on to the dragon for life) that is being sold in the classifides to which mrmando responded in the next post. I did some searching and my apologies because Kang did play it! (http://www.friendsofcheese.com/ImagePopup.asp?ImageID=98)

mrmando
Jun-13-2006, 5:09pm
Hey, the Kangster has owned several e-mandos. I have no reason to doubt that he actually used this instrument.

alsouissi
Jun-14-2006, 4:16pm
Just because Knag owned it I don't think that it is worth 7,500 Dollars, and besides it wont play or sound better just because he played it.

mrmando
Jun-14-2006, 6:26pm
What? Next you'll be telling me that the $79.99 vial of KANG® Mojo-Sweat I've been wearing around my neck for three years is worthless!

alsouissi
Jun-15-2006, 7:56am
No i am not saying that the mando is worthless. I just think that it is not worth 7,500. I believe the ony reason he is selling it for that much is to pay back some of the people that he did dirty, but it is not mine to sell so my opinion realy does not matter i was just saying.You never know one day some crazy that would pay $79.99 for a vial of some man sweat migh be stupid enough to pay that much for a rono, but some people call me crazy for paying 2500 for a rono custom.

mrmando
Jun-15-2006, 5:09pm
Maybe I need to throw in a few more of these http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif when I make a joke.

mikeomando
Jun-15-2006, 7:10pm
I got it the first time, mrmando, FWIW.

mangolin
Jun-15-2006, 10:24pm
I don’t know. #My aunt in Teaneck accidentally spilled a couple of drops of KANG® Mojo-Sweat in her onion and pineapple soup at our Arbor Day reunion last year and my cousin George’s wart fell off, Uncle Sylvester’s transmission fixed itself, my sister won the lottery and our kitten, Snuggles, grew to 500 times her previous size and is now featured as “Pongo, the Siamese Tiger” by Ringling Brothers.

Moose
Jun-16-2006, 9:34am
We're having WAAAAY too much fun here!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

mangolin
Jun-25-2006, 6:52pm
well, it happened. the sheriff's dept tracked ron down and served him. i now have a court date in a couple of weeks. whether or not mr. oates will appear is anyone's guess, and should i win, actually collecting my money could be an entirely different can of worms. so we'll see in a couple of weeks what happens.

in addition, i spoke with claire hunter and she has some good ideas for people who are in the same position, so anyone waiting for money or mandolins from ron should give her a call.

Moose
Jun-26-2006, 9:42am
Hey, thanks mangolin!! - I have no $$$$ invested but have been following this "caper" since way back; best 'o luck - pls. keep us posted - I'm sure MANY folks here on the CAFE are with you.., perhaps not in-person but certainly in "kindred" spirit AND support!! - Moose. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Matthew Welles
Jul-04-2006, 11:18am
I am the proud owner of a brand new Ron Oates electric mandolin. I commissioned over a year ago, and waited patiently while Ron-O worked on it. I am completely happy with the finish product, and the time it took to finish it.

It is true that RonO is not the greatest communicator, as he is not computer-tech/e-mail saavy, nor is he especially prompt in returning phone calls.

It is true that my mandolin is phenomenal, and that I think he is a creative genius.

My electric mando is one of the LAST that he will ever make.

Because of the imaptience of people in our "fast-food nation", people that must think that Ron works on a factory floor cranking out new instruments daily, Ron no longer wishes to provide the music community with his greatest gift, the ability to craft a beatiful instrument.

I am greatly saddened for all of you that will never get to play one of his instruments. And I pity those of you that put him in this position. You are sad, and unworthy of his gifts.

For all of you creative people out there, you may understand that if you are going to create something, the LAST thing you want is someone yelling at you to hurry up, get it done. Ever write a song? Ever make an instrument? Ever be creative? If you try to rush it, you will only force the creative process, and result may be something less than what you expected.

Ron has NEVER failed to deliver a promised instrument.

It may have taken longer than he promised, true.

Did you help, or hinder, him in the process?

For all of you who helped and supported Ron in his career as a builder, I salute you. As a result, I have a beatiful sounding and looking electric jazz mando.

For all of you who rushed Ron, who made him despise creating objects of visual and auditory beauty, who made him question his career choice

We have lost a valuable asset to the eMando community.

Peace,

Guy Welles

Scott Tichenor
Jul-04-2006, 11:27am
You're opinion is welcome, but some of the language used in your post is unacceptable and has been removed.

Ken Sager
Jul-04-2006, 4:29pm
<snip>
Because of the imaptience of people in our "fast-food nation", people that must think that Ron works on a factory floor cranking out new instruments daily, Ron no longer wishes to provide the music community with his greatest gift, the ability to craft a beatiful instrument.

I am greatly saddened for all of you that will never get to play one of his instruments. #And I pity those of you that put him in this position. #You are sad, and unworthy of his gifts.

<snip>

Ron has NEVER failed to deliver a promised instrument.

It may have taken longer than he promised, true. #

Did you help, or hinder, him in the process?

<snip>

For all of you who rushed Ron, who made him despise creating objects of visual and auditory beauty, who made him question his career choice

We have lost a valuable asset to the eMando community.

Peace,

Guy Welles
What a pant-load.

Ron made his bed. He made promises he hasn't kept. HE chose these things, not those to whom he made promises.

He sounds like a complete boob who shouldn't be in business.

Oh well.

Love to all,
Ken

Matthew Welles
Jul-04-2006, 5:10pm
Nice reply. Thank you for your opinion. I like your comment by your name. "Don't Think". Seems appropriate.

I took the time to go meet Ron in person. I researched the comments and debates about him on-line. I knew exactly what to expect when I gave him my deposit. And what I recieved in return has far exceeded my expectations.

Guy

Matthew Welles
Jul-04-2006, 5:19pm
Ken,

Sorry - I shouldn't have lashed out at you personally. My humble apologies.

You are indeed correct. Ron made promises with regard to times to complete the instruments, which he did not live up to. There is absolutely no denying this.

It is simply my opinion that calling the police, involving the court, etc, is not the best way to get the best possible instrument. That was my goal. The means to that end, in my opinion, is to nurture the creative spirit.

If it is simply your goal to get your deposit back, then, by all means, do whatever you like.

All I am saying is that my method WORKED.

Guy

Ken Sager
Jul-04-2006, 5:35pm
Apology accepted. I can hardly take offense, but thank you.

My point was that taking Ron at his word hasn't worked, so others have resorted to ASKING him. To which he gives promises that he doesn't keep.

It really sounds like he has problems, and not problems SIMPLY MEETING HIS OWN DEADLINES. I was serious that maybe he shouldn't be in the instrument building business. He's created an atmosphere of mistrust. That isn't created by those to whom he made promises, those whose money he took. That's Ron's doing.

Congrats on getting your instrument Matthew, or Guy, or whatever your name is. If Ron had done for others what he did for you there wouldn't be a need for this type of thread.

He has made a bad name for himself and one instrument delivered on time hardly does anything to fix that. He could clear up a lot of this by simply contacting the people who are owed instruments.

Why can't he do that?

Matthew Welles
Jul-05-2006, 12:15am
I think its the same reason bands have managers.

There are so many creative people out there that can't, and shouldn't, run a business. There are painters that shouldn't sell their own work, and need reps, for example.

There are very few people, relatively, in the world that can do both.

I make no apologies for Ron.

I just wanted to share my positive experience with people. It was positive because of the way that I dealt with it.

Don't get mad at the storm, just deal with it.

Peace,

Guy

Brian Aldridge
Jul-05-2006, 6:01am
I don't know Guy, but if I were you, I would feel a bit bad that I got my mandolin when there were others who had ordered first and gave money to the guy before you, and just because you sweet talked him, or as you put it, it was positive because the way you dealt with it, and other people are out their deposits. I might feel like you got MY mandolin. I don't know that I would be bragging in a public forum that I kissed the guy's rear end while he was putting the shaft to some good people. I know if he had stolen my money, I wouldn't want to be hearing your message that it was all my fault because I didn't handle him right because I am not as smart as you, and you telling me not to get mad at the storm, just deal with it. I guess it will be decided in court, but it appears the guy has stolen some folk's money. That's what they call it when you take someone's money, and do not deliver the goods. I guess I do understand you being happy you got your mandolin, when there no doubt were times you probably thought you wouldn't.

JimW
Jul-05-2006, 6:30am
Seems to me the logical solution would be for Ron to build instruments and sell them ONLY when they are completed. This way, he would not take peoples money up front or have to meet deadlines, just build and sell when he gets one finished. However, I think it's far to late for this approach now.

If everything that has been said about him here is true, I personally think this guy belongs in jail. You know, speaking of his "creative genius", maybe he could use that to help design license plates.

Jim Watts

Matthew Welles
Jul-05-2006, 11:06am
He was finishing up a 4 string electric when I was there this past weekend. I assume that belongs to one of you.

I should feel bad? What? What planet are you from?

As I mentioned, I read this forum before I contacted Ron initially.

I knew how long it might take before I got my mando.

I went very long periods of time without hearing from, or hearing back from Ron.

It took 1 year 4 months to get it.

I didn't over-react, freak out, or call the cops when it passed the deadline, and I hadn't heard from him.

For those of you waiting, be patient!

I was, and it made for a better experience.

The guy didn't steal any money. He took a deposit, and is building it. He is taking longer than he said, but he was there working when I was there last weekend.

Like I said, I make no apologies for the guy. And I certainly am not apologizing for myself, Brian.

I am just advising you to be patient. The guy is a great builder. You'll be happy with your product. Just take a deep breath.

I feel very, very bad for those of you that had to suffer as a result of, as the subject says, Ron Oates' lack of customer service. It is true, and happens, apparently, to everyone that buys one of his instruments. It did to me, though for not as long as some.

Take solace in the fact that when you do finally get it, it will probably be the last one he ever builds. And as Kangs is selling for $7K (we'll see if that sells), and Kangs band is getting bigger, it is likely that it will appreciate in value, just as Trey's builder, Paul Languedoc's instruments have.

I, personally, don't think that someone should be in jail for this.

Actually, I think the DA would have a hard time putting a man in jail for this, when he would show up in court with a near-completed mandolin.

Anyway, try to be patient. I know its hard.

Peace,

Guy

Moose
Jul-05-2006, 12:12pm
Yeah..., right, what's the "big deal", anyhow!!?? - many of - us - probably just don't understand th' guy! - That RONO..., what a guy! - Moose - http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

dang
Jul-05-2006, 1:04pm
I think Rono just doesn't have a concept of "The time value of money (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_value_of_money)"

sorry-I just took an accounting class http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif