How to recognize a quality flattop?

[Sellars]

Hi all!

A question about flattop mandolins. What are the characteristics of a quality flattop mandolin?

What sorts of bracing, wood, etc. would we be looking at?
How would you describe the sound of the instrument?

I'm just curious, because the majority of talk is about archtops, but I happen to like the old-fashioned http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif flattop

any ideas?

[fatt-dad]

Can't go wrong with a Flatiron.

f-d

[Sellars]

Thanks for your replys and good suggestions, both on the forum and PMmed. However, I should add that I am not currently in the market for a new mandolin. I'm just curious to hear about what you guys think about what characteristics a quality flattop should posses.

As I said, much talk is about archtops and what characteristics makes a good archtop a good archtop, and I am curious what the ideas are on flat top mandolins.

[Eugene]

I favor the pre-depression flat mandolins with canted tops a la Martin, Vega, the Larson bros., Lyon & Healy's various brands, etc. The good ones of that era almost universally have Brazilian rosewood backs and sides and simple transverse bars for bracing. The sound is very different than that of carved, f-holed instruments, but when strung and played correctly, the tone is of excellent quality, richer in sustain than f-holed mandolins.

[Bob DeVellis]

The "how to tell" part is tough. As Eugene suggested, brand is one way to tell, with those he mentioned being fine instruments. Things get complicated because some good makers supplied instruments that were badged under a different company's name. Ultimately, the best way to tell is to play the instrument. How it feels and how it sounds are the best indication of quality, although terrible, old, rusty, inappropriately gauged strings can make that hard to do. But if equipped with decent strings, it should be pretty clear from their feel and sound which flat-tops are good and which aren't. It's also beneficial to retune the strings a bit to see how well the tuners work and to do a careful visual inspection to see if there are any problems (like the neck heel separating from the body, indicating a possible neck misalignment, or cracks in the top or back). On canted-top instruments other than Vega's, the bridge should be on the sound hole side of the top crease, not behind it. If the bridge has been moved behind the crease, that may mean that something isn't right. This is not how it works with Vega, however. For Vega instruments, the bridge is properly positioned behind (i.e., on the tailpiece side of) the crease.

[fatt-dad]

I also offer for your consideration my Kalamazoo (http://home.comcast.net/~fatt-dad/kalamazoo-mandolin.html). Spruce top and mahagony sides and back.

f-d

[PCypert]

Generally I look for more exotic woods in a flattop. If I wanted an archtop sounding maple mandolin I'd get one. For a flattop I like the variety. Look at the stuff their doing at arches. Listen to an old Flatiron Koa mandolin. That's something I look for, you may be different. I don't know about bracing etc. Most don't lean towards tone bars.
Paul

[delsbrother]

I'll defer to the real experts here, but don't the canted topped instruments usually have a single brace (right before the bend)? The Flatirons I've seen have several large transverse braces as well as some lengthwise ones.. They also seem much thinner in depth than the canted ones (Martin, Larsons, et. al.). Don't know how much this contributes to the Flatiron's bright tone, but I suppose it does.. The Martins I've played have also been bright, but somehow richer - especially in the trebles..

Don't forget about the Brazilian bandolims - these are typically flat (uncanted) and pretty stoutly braced, but they also tend to be rosewood backed and deep. They have a sound all their own.. Almost "hollow" sounding, with a bit of reverb? My Djangolin (also uncanted, deep, and transverse braced) sounds closer to a bandolim than a Martin or a Flatiron..

Perhaps a tasting is in order? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[rtjack]

I went through this decision making process about 2 months ago. I bought an Arches flat top A mandolin and I could not be more pleased. Do yourself a favor, visit Arches Musical Instrument Companies web site, there is a wealth of good information there. Chris is easy to work with and is very quick to get back to you if you leave him an e-mail. I have no financial interest here, just trying to pass along good information on great mando's.

rtjack

[grandmainger]

How would you describe the sound of the instrument?
One more vote for Arches (http://www.archesmusic.com/).

Mine is very nice. To me, the sound is round and friendly. People who pick it up say: "it's really small", then they play it and they say "it's really loud". It's actually quite loud when you consider how small the air chamber is. I'd say that's a good sign.

Also, you may want to look out for builder who will "adapt" archtop features to flattops, like raised and radiused fingerboards. The playability changes quite a bit.

They're seemingly low-key instruments, but they're great!

[pickinNgrinnin]

[QUOTE]What are the characteristics of a quality flattop mandolin?

If it says Flatiron or Davis on the headstock, you know you have a good one http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[PhilGE]

Weber Aspens are a wonderful flat-top instrument, with great tone and sustain. I've strung mine up with T-I mittels and love it. I've had it strung with phosphor bronze and it was loud enough for jams.

Best,
Phil

[Bill Snyder]

I should add that I am not currently in the market for a new mandolin. I'm just curious to hear about what you guys think about what characteristics a quality flattop should posses.

... and I am curious what the ideas are on flat top mandolins.
As you can see most of the posters here are fixated on telling you what brand or builder to look for. If you are not in the market for a mandolin, just information on what woods, bracing, shape, etc., tend to do what you might want to post in the builders/repairs section.
Builders of flat top instruments are in the minority, but there are a few that frequent the forum.

[Chris Baird]

Nearly any instrument can be quantified quite simply; if it sounds and plays good, it is good!

[otterly2k]

Sellars--
I'd look for good fit and finish,decent hardware, etc. as with any mando. For me, I'd look for an instrument where the wood is nice and thin so it vibrates well, but not so fragile that it feels like you're playing an eggshell.

I'd also look for an induced arch design...where the flat piece of wood is glued to braces that have a little bit of an arch. In addition to deepening the sound chamber, this provides structural support to the top.

What woods? I don't know... I think that's all about personal preference, tonal and aesthetic. and of course, Chris' guideline is hard to argue with...

KE

[fatt-dad]

And, if it has the word "gibson" on the fake truss rod cover and bears a lable on the inside about OpryLand - don't buy it. Gibson has recently made a tourist version of a flattop mandolin that is made from laminated wood, but has the "look" of a flatiron-type flat-top mandolin. Avoid this mandolin.

f-d