Wide nut ?

[Loubrava]

I'm thinking of getting another mandolin upgrading with a budget somewhere around 3k
I've seen some the high end mandos have option of a wide nut 1 3/16 vs 1 1/8. Is the entire fret board wider by 1/8" ? If so I guess you end up with a bit more space between strings which I could see being an advantage when grabbing those 4 finger chords. Is that the reason for the wider nut or something else ?
Thanks in advance
Lou

[Tailgate]

I orignially got a wide nut Weber Gallatin because I tend to like a chunkier neck... after playing it for a few weeks I realized that it's only the wider, chunkier neck that I like but I couldn't get used to the string spacing. I ended up cutting a new nut and getting a new saddle so I couldand respace the strings based on a standard nut / neck Collings MT. This is always an option... if the neck feels good, you can always adjust the string spacing to your liking.

[k0k0peli]

My cheap and/or old mandolins are 28mm at the nut but my Keith Coleman is 32mm which is 14% wider and makes a HUGE difference with my large fingers. I also like soprano 'uleleles at 35mm strung in 5ths with mando tuning -- they're 25% wider than standard and make for easy chording. I'd beware of a nut wider than the neck -- that gets painful -- and a nut with the strings close to the edges could be clumsy too. I have a problem there with another instrument whose strings tend to fall off the edge of the fretboard. No fun.

[Jesse Harmon]

I found the wide nut 3/16 Rigel just felt natural to me when I tried one. I can see some advantages either way so I suppose it is just a personal choice. Since I have played a while now I can switch back and forth to my bowlback without too much problems adjusting. Rigel is a definite great instrument if you happen to go for there great clarity in tone and lots of sustain.

[Jeff Hildreth]

A "wide " 32 mm nut is what I find to be the optimum for a mandolin nut.
Anything less for me is near unplayable. My hands and fingers are on the large
side but not overly so or fat. Some instruments with 1 3/16ths (approx 30mm)
can be ok but depends on the neck profile.

My custom made Seifferts were made with 32 mm nut width, a "standard option" offered.
Seiffert said many German and Euro players opt for the wider nut rather than the standard
30 mm. ( R Seiffert RIP)

What is ridiculous is Eastman's (and some other maker's) 1 1/16th inch width. I would
likely own one if not for that. How anyone can play those is a mystery to me unless you
have needle digits.

I believe Sam Bush uses 1 1/4" nut widths and others use wider.



Case by Case.

[Shelagh Moore]

I had to sell my otherwise excellent Daley A model due to its very narrow nut which I couldn't settle to. The Nava (30mm... about 1.18") and National RM-1 (1.25") mandolins that I now play are much wider at the nut and more comfortable for me personally.

[mandroid]

potentially the fingerboard can be the same width at the 12th fret,

just that 0.125" (or whatever) wider at the Nut /1st fret end.


the discussion with the builder before they start can sort all that out.

[Mandoplumb]

The Hutto that Dempsey Young played with the Lost and Found for years, had that narrow neck 1&1/16 I think, I played that mandolin in the white ( Johnny was playing with us at the time) and I didn't like it. It felt like the difference between a toothpick and a 2 by 4.

[DavidKOS]

I had to sell my otherwise excellent Daley A model due to its very narrow nut which I couldn't settle to. The Nava (30mm... about 1.18") and National RM-1 (1.25") mandolins that I now play are much wider at the nut and more comfortable for me personally.

About 30mm is wide enough for me too, and I'm like you - I am not comfortable on narrow nut widths.

[foldedpath]

One potential downside to wider necks (wider string course spacing, actually), is that it makes it harder to fret two adjacent notes with a single fingertip.

For example, the 22O0 "modal A" chord, or A5 dyad depending on your naming preference. Pressing down the G and D strings with just the tip of the index finger on the 2nd fret, opens up a lot of possibilities for the other fingers. It's basically a fiddle technique, and mandolin players often try to adapt what works on a fiddle, rather than trying to play it like a baby guitar.
:)

If you have very large or flat fingertips, it might be just as easy on a wider neck. Or as Tailgate mentioned above, if it's a question of the "neck feel" more than the actual string spacing, you could just cut a standard-spacing nut for the wider fingerboard. For me, the sweet spot is the standard width mandolin spacing. I find it a lot harder to fret two adjacent courses with a fingertip on my Weber OM, with its larger string spacing. It can be done, but I have to pay a lot more attention to hit it cleanly.

[Loubrava]

Thanks for info. everyone. So the fret board remains a standard width among builders/manufactures & just the nut width gets wider correct ? With that in mind I could buy the wider nut model & worst case is I can have it changed out if I don't like it. Now I just need to try and play a few nice mandos but no local dealer carries any thing I'm interested in. Most shops only have low end models one store has an Eastman that sells for around 1.2k but (IMO) it isn't any better than the Loar 600 I'm playing. I asked store owner about Webers & Northfield but he's never heard of them. I'm probably going used anyway but I'd sure like to play before buy.

[Upis Land]

So the fret board remains a standard width among builders/manufactures & just the nut width gets wider correct ?

No not standard. The fret width will vary with the nut width and also up the neck.

I started with a wide nut 1 3/6" and the extra string spacing was indeed helpful in making fewer mistakes. I recently purchased another mandolin with 1 1/6" nut width, and I am making more mistakes but also getting used to it. It can be easier to do 4 finger chop chords with the narrow nut if you have small hands. At this point I am enjoying both and not sure which I will prefer in the end.

I think it comes down to what you get used to or what you like and your playing style, etc. You almost have to play one for a while though to determine what works best for you.

[Dick Hutchings]

I asked store owner about Webers & Northfield but he's never heard of them.
:))
You need to find another store.

[darylcrisp]

Hello Lou
thru trial involving multiple name brand mandolins(Northfield, Collings, Weber, Pava), i've come to the conclusion that i have less hand stress/more fun overall , when i'm playing on a 1 3/16" nut width mandolin.

keep in mind the neck profile has a lot, a LOT, to do with how that wider width ends up feeling for a long period of time. in my mind, neck profile shape is/can be, just as important. nobody can tell you what will work for you best-its pretty much a hands on thing.

here are some measurements for you, from mandolins i've owned:

Northfield F5S custom with 1 3/16" nut width-string spacing at the saddle 1 7/16", neck profile was what i would call rounded oval with thick shoulders

Collings MTO with 1 3/16" nut width-string spacing at saddle 1 9/16", neck profile was very much like the Northfield

Collings MT with 1 3/16" nut width-string spacing at saddle 1 9/16", neck profile soft V
Collings MT2V-same as MT above

the above mandolins all have 13 7/8" scale(another spec to keep in mind)

Webers-our family has owned a couple Webers. All have had 14" scale.
the wide nut versions i've owned-1 3/16", all have 1 9/16" string spacing at the saddle, soft V neck profile.
the 1 1/8" nut width versions have less width of string spacing at the saddle but i cannot remember that spec at this moment-i do have my daughters at home and can measure that for you if you want to know that spec.

as others mentioned and you pointed out, the wider string spacing at the saddle offers different things for different people. of the mandolins i've personally experienced and owned-the Northfield with wider nut and 1 7/16" string spacing made things "less wide" to fret as you go up the neck, since that neck did not vector out as much as the Collings or Weber. that may or may not, be an issue for you.

one last spec to check in with is depth of the neck profile as it goes from the nut up the neck. a few mandolins i've experienced felt too thick/deep as the neck neared the heel. the standard Collings carve does not do that and fits my hands really well-Weber also fit me extremely well.

i love'm all, prefer the Collings overall for my hands and ears.

d

[DHopkins]

Both of my Breedloves are wide (1 3/16") and I play Legacy the most. I've very comfortable with both. I recently acquired a new (old, 1916) Gibson F4 and everything is smaller. I'm not having as much trouble playing it as I thought I would. I've noticed that, at least right now, I have to watch the fingering a lot more because of the spacing but it's getting better.

[Loubrava]

Hello Lou
thru trial involving multiple name brand mandolins(Northfield, Collings, Weber, Pava), i've come to the conclusion that i have less hand stress/more fun overall , when i'm playing on a 1 3/16" nut width mandolin.

keep in mind the neck profile has a lot, a LOT, to do with how that wider width ends up feeling for a long period of time. in my mind, neck profile shape is/can be, just as important. nobody can tell you what will work for you best-its pretty much a hands on thing.

here are some measurements for you, from mandolins i've owned:

Northfield F5S custom with 1 3/16" nut width-string spacing at the saddle 1 7/16", neck profile was what i would call rounded oval with thick shoulders

Collings MTO with 1 3/16" nut width-string spacing at saddle 1 9/16", neck profile was very much like the Northfield

Collings MT with 1 3/16" nut width-string spacing at saddle 1 9/16", neck profile soft V
Collings MT2V-same as MT above

the above mandolins all have 13 7/8" scale(another spec to keep in mind)

Webers-our family has owned a couple Webers. All have had 14" scale.
the wide nut versions i've owned-1 3/16", all have 1 9/16" string spacing at the saddle, soft V neck profile.
the 1 1/8" nut width versions have less width of string spacing at the saddle but i cannot remember that spec at this moment-i do have my daughters at home and can measure that for you if you want to know that spec.

as others mentioned and you pointed out, the wider string spacing at the saddle offers different things for different people. of the mandolins i've personally experienced and owned-the Northfield with wider nut and 1 7/16" string spacing made things "less wide" to fret as you go up the neck, since that neck did not vector out as much as the Collings or Weber. that may or may not, be an issue for you.

one last spec to check in with is depth of the neck profile as it goes from the nut up the neck. a few mandolins i've experienced felt too thick/deep as the neck neared the heel. the standard Collings carve does not do that and fits my hands really well-Weber also fit me extremely well.

i love'm all, prefer the Collings overall for my hands and ears.

d

Nice info. good advice makes total sense that nut width is only one factor in how the mando feels. So I measured my Loar 600 and my Godin A8 but now I'm not sure what is actually the nut width. The Loar measures 1 3/16 outside of nut string spacing is 31/32 and string spacing at bridge 1 7/16
The Godin nut is 1 1/8 string spacing 1" bridge string space 1 3/8 so it has a narrower nut but slightly wider string spacing. My question is when talking nut width is it the nut measurement or is it string spacing at the nut ? Obviously the actual nut measurement really dosent tell you what the string spacing is. I measured with digital micrometer so pretty accurate measurements.
The neck on the Loar seems like a pretty pronounced V shape and Godin has no V at all just a constant radius and that neck shape seems easier on the left hand than the Loar.

[darylcrisp]

Nice info. good advice makes total sense that nut width is only one factor in how the mando feels. So I measured my Loar 600 and my Godin A8 but now I'm not sure what is actually the nut width. The Loar measures 1 3/16 outside of nut string spacing is 31/32 and string spacing at bridge 1 7/16
The Godin nut is 1 1/8 string spacing 1" bridge string space 1 3/8 so it has a narrower nut but slightly wider string spacing. My question is when talking nut width is it the nut measurement or is it string spacing at the nut ? Obviously the actual nut measurement really dosent tell you what the string spacing is. I measured with digital micrometer so pretty accurate measurements.
The neck on the Loar seems like a pretty pronounced V shape and Godin has no V at all just a constant radius and that neck shape seems easier on the left hand than the Loar.

nut width is simply the outside to outside spec at the nut-string spacing within those boundries can be cut to ones choice-just as you've mentioned above.

and i always forget to mention that concerning the space of the string courses within the nut width. but it also is of importance to some folks. likewise, one can change the spacing of where the string courses fall at the saddle also-just recut new slots where you want-may need a new saddle area-i have filed down the top and recut new slots on a saddle(bridge top) where the wood was in plenty. also filed the correct areas there for the string to lay proper on top and intonated.

d