snakeheads!

[Nick Triesch]

I just had my old 23 Gibson set up with a new bridge saddle and Wow, does it sound great! It really does have a better sound to me than most really good new and old F types. When I play my A type for folks they always say the same thing......"now thats a fantastic sounding mandolin." The only drawback to the snakehead is the short little neck. Other than that it's one of the best sounding mandolins I have ever played. Folks don't talk about much this on the cafe but the old A mandolins really do have a sound that just can't be bought today at any price. Try this: put a blindfold on a friend and play your good F type then you old Gibson A and it will win the sound test every time. I've tried it on several folks. Nick

[danb]

Amen brother. My snake is a 22 brownface A.. I did the "blindfold" test of sorts at Gruhn's when I was there with Jack Schultz and his Loar! I was playing 71261 (my snake) in George's office to test it.. door ajar.. and my friend Chip (who was recording with me that week) was out in the shop. He got back and said "why did you just sit in there playing the Loar instead of trying out any of the stuff here?"..

Jack came back and asked the same question. So I bought that snakehead http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

In my opinion, the snakes have the D&A string tone you'll hear on a fine F5. The E string is about 80% the same, missing something or other that makes the classic "piano tone" sound. The G is a little more tonnggg than clonggg if that makes sense.

Setup is incredibly important. The adjustible saddles on the old Gibsons are quite often slightly droopy, which means small fractures in them somewhere.. which steal tone. From now on, any vintage Gibson I lay hands on will probably get a brand new one of Darryl's bridge copies installed and a health check on the nut as well. When you have the fretboard, nuts, bridge, and frets humming along on these babies they are just incredible. It's a good idea to figure up front that you will do that, it makes them sound almost new!

[tiltman]

Hey Dan,
I have a '25 Snakehead that sounds good but could use a little help. The bridge did have a little crack near the foot which I had repaired last year. I may go ahead and replace the bridge.
What did you mean by Darryl's bridge copies?
Also, the A-strings seem to hang up in the nut and go out of tune often. I've tried putting lead pencil shavings in there to lubricate but those strings still give me problems. The slots seem deeper compared to the other strings but I'm not getting any buzzing. Do you think I should replace the nut? If so, what would you suggest?
Thanks and sorry about the long post,
Kirk

[tiltman]

Anyone who could answer these questions please chime in.
Kirk

[Nick Triesch]

Kirk, you just need to spend a little cash on a few parts and a good setup. Setup should be about $35-50 bucks. New bridge with saddle installed maybe another $100.00 Nut repair or new nut maybe $75.00 more . So for about $225.00 you will have a super playing and sounding Gibson classic from the Loar era. Nick:)

[Ken Waltham]

I'll second that! I have 2 1923 snakehead A's, and they will really make you scratch your head about spending tens of thousands of dollars on an F5......
I will go out on a limb and even claim they sound better than the earlier, paddlehead A's, which I also think sound fantastic.
And I agree with the above statement, you can't get that sound in a new mandolin.. at any price!

[Nick Triesch]

An old friend of mine came into town a few years ago and I brought out my expensive Flatiron F5 that I had at the time. He really liked the construction and he liked the sound. ( He is a master wood worker) Then he wanted to hear my old simple snakehead and he said "wow!, in 80 years the F style may sound that good!" It's true. The snakehead brings a smile wherever it goes. Must be the age because I'm sure that many of todays A type mandolins are made to very close specs as the old ones. Other old A types seem to have that same sweet sound. Many folks say that the A type is best suited for celtic music but why if the old A sounds better. One reason may be because the F types are much faster to finger because of the longer neck....not because they sound better. IMHO please. Nick

[panhead]

Thank yall for this post, I agree with all the above.. 1925 Gibson 81532.

[tiltman]

Thanks for all of the replies.
What type of bridge should I get and from where?
DanB mentioned one of Daryl's bridge copies - anyone know what he's referring to?
What type of nut would you guys suggest?
Thanks again,
Kirk

[wdrysd]

Darryl's bridges are available on the F5 Journal website. Great bridges.

Loar reproductions bridges sound great - on f hole mandolins. The oval hole with their different bracing does not need a bridge that spans the tone bars.

For you experimenters try this - shorten the base on a bridge to 4 1/2 inches long. This is closer to the length of the one piece bridge. I prefer this length with the oval hole top that has one transverse brace on the fingerboard side of the bridge.

If you also separate the bottom of the bridge to two feet, you will find more of the top is free to vibrate. The G and E strings might sound better to you. This worked well on both my snakehead and a paddlehead.

Wilson Drysdale

[peter.coombe]

"And I agree with the above statement, you can't get that sound in a new mandolin.. at any price! "

I disagree. #I've been making them with that special sound for a few years now.

You might like to try a Brekke bridge. #They work well on oval hole mandos, especially after my mods.

Peter

[Nick Triesch]

My 1923 plain ol brown , bottom of the line Gibson A type does not need a Brekke bridge. # Just has the one that came with it with a repo saddle and it sounds wonderful...I'm sure that the Brekke is a terrific bridge. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Glassweb]

Ah yes... the Loar era snakeheads... to my way of thinking (and hearing) some of the finest mandolins you can play... including Loar F5's. I own an A4 Snake and an A2Z Snake and they both have amazing tone, balance, volume and presence. No, they don't do what a great F5 does... but a great F5 can't do what a great roundhole can do! And regarding the "short neck" on the Snakes... well, after you get to hear what Andy Statman does on his new mandolin CD (Andy has exclusively played an old A2Z Snake for nearly 30 years) you'll never be able to make an excuse for being technically handicapped by the shorter scale length of the Snakeheads. And I think they are very beautifully designed these Snakes - with a varnish finish to boot! Try it, you'll like it!

[danb]

Darryl makes bridge reproductions.. they are spot-on. We just put one on 76547!

[ethanopia]

I just finished putting a Gibson Loar repro bridge on my Snakehaed A JR 79191, and it made a huge difference. It had a cheap rosewood bridge on it when I bought it every time I picked it up I thought I hate that bridge.

This Gibson bridge is really high quality and a very precise, the machine work on it is perfect. And it really helped the sound, it is almost a different instrument.

Of course I switched from J73 to J74 and that helped a ton too. The 73s really drive the top like the 74s do. I hope she holds up to the added stress, but so far so good.

[Jim Garber]

Of course I switched from J73 to J74 and that helped a ton too. The 73s really drive the top like the 74s do. I hope she holds up to the added stress, but so far so good.
I never heard of J73s. I looked on the D'Addario site (http://www.daddariostrings.com/DADProducts.aspx?ID=5&CLASS=AFPA) and didn't see them. Are you thinking of another string?

Jim

[Nick Triesch]

I will never sell my snakehead because I love it and it was a gift from my wife 17 years ago. But I bet they will go up in value even more. When I bought mine I was told that it was worth $1000.00. I think a nice plain A will bring $2500 now. I bet in 10 years or so....$5000. Not signed by Loar but He was there when mine rolled off the line. Cool! Folks are always talking about F5 copy this and F5 copy that. Even the new Gibsons are called that. But not an old snakehead.... It's the real deal. And that is just cool. Nick

[ethanopia]

Ooooops sorry Jim for some reason I thought they were called J73 but in fact I think they were 80/20 Lights. I know the E was a .10 so I'm pretty sure thats what they were. I don't use my Snakehead for Gigs or jamming all that much so it gets negelected on string changes. But now that I'm using J74 on both of my instruments then perhaps I will start buying in bulk and changing them more offten.

The more I play the more I relalize that new strings play really easy...

[Jim Garber]

Ooooops sorry Jim for some reason I thought they were called J73 but in fact I think they were 80/20 Lights.
J62s.

Jim

[atetone]

Didn't Gibson change the finishes during the snakehead period from varnish of some sort to lacquer?
What year did that happen and did it make any difference to the tone?

[Bob A]

According to Gruhn's Guide, Gibson went to lacquer around 1929. I can't speak to the accuracy of George's observations, however.