How long did it take? [Archive] - Mandolin Cafe Forum

TheOne-N-OnlyHomer

Jul-25-2015, 5:17pm

Fred Keller

Jul-25-2015, 5:22pm

For a given definition of "good"...forever ;) I've been playing, oh, 17 years I think and it seems like I can't do half of what I want or what I hear in my head.

MysTiK PiKn

Jul-25-2015, 6:59pm

How long?

How long does it take for the fun to stop?

Anything I want to learn can take 5 minutes or 5 months or 5 years. I drive the bus. I know it can take time to learn something else before I can learn what I want to learn. I don't really care. If it isn't fun, I am not going to learn it. Often, from what I learn, I realize I don't want to learn what I thought I did. The other day I played what could have been a new song; and it wasn't intentional; and it wasn't like anything I thought I wanted to learn. It was fun, and also exciting. I could call it a breakthrough; but that's more about comparison to someone else. Really it was just simple chord changing; but it had a sound that I liked, and you likely would have liked it too. I play along with radio stations often - chasing some monster mandolin breaks - I learn, they really aren't that difficult - but that's about me having gone through all these unusual processes, again, again - and then it 'breaks thru' into something unintentional. Learning is hard work; I like to have fun. Fun is easy. I bought my mando for me; not someone's idea of what I should do with it; and especially not for someone's idea of what music is. I didn't start 'here'; I 'got here' on my own path.
It's all a process; and I hope you enjoy yours; for your own sake - but if you have another path to follow, well, that's maybe even better, for you. Play the instrument, and it will reveal itself to you; I think you might enjoy that. ~o)

k0k0peli

Jul-25-2015, 7:11pm

After 10 years on guitar I wasn't bad.
After 30 years on mando I'm still not good.
That's OK; I'm even worse on dulcimer and banjo.

TheOne-N-OnlyHomer

Jul-25-2015, 9:11pm

:grin:~o):popcorn:

Astro

Jul-25-2015, 9:32pm

Timely subject for me. This is the cusp of my 3 year mandoliniversery.

I still consider myself a beginner. Probably an advanced beginner, but I'm not ready to call myself intermediate.

Where and when you call yourself what becomes a confidence thing from here forward. It has less to do with your ability than it does with your perception. I know musicians that sound worse than me but who think they are great. I know others who think they are nothing special who are many times more accomplished than I will ever be. In the end what difference does it make? Who cares? Its not a contest. Its just the extent that you find reward or self actualization in the process. Make good music. The method, means, complexity or instrument, matters not.

theCOOP

Jul-26-2015, 5:30am

I've had several mandolins at a time kicking around for five or six years now and I'm still on the lower end of mediocre.

TheOne-N-OnlyHomer

Jul-26-2015, 7:20am

theCOOP

Jul-26-2015, 7:33am

Well, hell, thanks ya'll lol. I know my wife recorded me on my new LM 220 and my old Rogue yesterday so I could listen to the difference and I sounded better (still not good) than I thought whilst I was playing.

The odd time In play in front of someone...they (say they) can't tell I'm not any good, lol.

UsuallyPickin

Jul-26-2015, 7:55am

Well .... it takes as long as it takes ...... There are people with excellent memories and incredibly good manual dexterity and I expect it takes them less time to learn then those of us with lesser gifts and talents. I have learned that when I play every day spending time on basics like scales and arpeggios , my warm up , work on a new tune or tunes spending about ten or fifteen minutes on each one, then play a few tunes I am familiar with to close out my session , the fun part, I continue to steadily improve. Play every day for a couple of months , even when you can only play for a half of an hour and then check your recording. You will hear and feel a difference. R/

Jon Hall

Jul-26-2015, 8:01am

In addition to taking lessons, you should find someone to play with. Those two things, along with daily practice will enable you to learn to play as quickly as you possibly can. Be patient and enjoy the process. Oh yeah...listen to as much good music as you possibly can, particularly the types of music you want to play with your mandolin. Immersing yourself in your music of choice will reap huge benefits.

Jim

Jul-26-2015, 8:09am

Well I've played guitar since 1967 and Mandolin since 1995. I don't know about "good" but I've had a lot of fun. Playing with others really helps with timing and dynamics and is enjoyable with the right group of people. It's a lifetime commitment .

fatt-dad

Jul-26-2015, 8:22am

On the path to excellence, enjoy mediocre!

f-d

Teak

Jul-26-2015, 8:29am

I have been playing mandolin since 1976 and know that the best that I will ever be will be on the day of my death. So, not anxious for arriving at my best, just enjoying what I can play in the here-and-now.

Bertram Henze

Jul-26-2015, 9:09am

How long does it take for the fun to stop?

This is, indeed, the question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWwgrjjIMXA

...and the answer, as we all know, is 42.
Since I started playing mandolin family instruments approx. 30 years ago, I've got a while to go yet.

Jackgaryk

Jul-26-2015, 9:59am

T.D.Nydn

Jul-26-2015, 10:17am

I feel to be truly an expert on anything,you must start as a young child,and with dedication,you start to understand mastery at about age 50...

Randi Gormley

Jul-26-2015, 10:51am

"Good" is a moving target ... what's "good" for someone who's played 3 months is a different thing from what's "good" for someone who has played 30 years. At a year and a half, I felt good about my playing if I could play through a piece of sheet music at a reasonable pace without too many mistakes. It was the same "good" as when I was a school kid in band and managed to play through, say, "Water Music" without too many errors and what errors there were were covered up by the rest of the band... these days, "good" means I can keep up at an ITM session and pick up some tunes or three on the fly and can start tunes at a reasonable pace ... so I'm "good" enough at what I play to think about the music and not the process. On the other hand, I'm not "good" at all at, say, chording; I can't improvise (much); I couldn't play a jazz riff or a bluegrass break to save my life. Being "good" at ITM doesn't translate as being "good" at all music or all styles. So you have to define what's "good" for yourself and then do that.

OTOH, I did find that my playing improved tremendously when I played a bit every day and began playing with others and began attending workshops. All that stuff built on what I knew and gave me the incentive to improve. Some people may be very good at self-motivation; I found that I needed the outside impetus in order to improve.

Carl Robin

Jul-26-2015, 11:12am

How long does it take to get good? When can I stop practicing? Two sides of the same coin. Forever, and never. It's the journey not the destination. Other people will have to be the ones that decide a player is "good". Just have fun.

mrmando2015

Jul-26-2015, 11:53am

I was excellent from the start... ... ... Haha not at all. But three years of almost daily practice has made a big difference in my ability to make the instrument do what I want it to. I'm decent at the songs I know and I'm learning to play with others. I find playing along with music I like to be a good gauge of how far I still have to go.... A long way lol. Playing along with a cd gives me chance to practice chords and accompaniment to lots of different types of music. Playing with my teacher helps me be a part of a larger musical picture and has helped me go further on the mandolin in three years than I ever got on the penny whistle and I've played that for 15 years. But yeah I guess 'good' is relative and for me the greatest reward of playing is playing itself. I love playing the mandolin and I feel lucky to have discovered that joy. Someday I'll be good at it, right now I'll just keep challenging myself to play harder music and get better at it.

TheOne-N-OnlyHomer

Jul-26-2015, 3:50pm

Thanks for the words of wisdom all, I may be in a conundrum. I believe I would have been more accurate to state how long did it take for you to feel comfortable playing in front of others, lol but I guess that's more of a confidence thing, and knowing how hard I am on myself I suppose I'll always hear mistakes and errors in my playing that only I or a trained musician will notice. I will say if T.D.Naydan is right I started about 25 years too late :))

jim simpson

Jul-26-2015, 4:06pm

As far as confidence, some folks never get it regardless of how good they become. You'll know you're getting good (or good enough) when others want to play with you (get invited to join a band) or be asked to fill in for someone in a band. It's always kind of tough to judge yourself. Most musicians that I know tend the be hard on themselves.

vic-victor

Jul-26-2015, 4:26pm

Thre is an old 1000 hours rule. If you'd put 1000 hours of your time into something, you are expected to be reasonably competent in it. Be it language, science, music or anything else. Put 10 times more in and it will lead you to mastery.

T.D.Nydn

Jul-26-2015, 5:16pm

"how do you get better than the next guy? You put in more time than him"..Bruce Lee...,mastery is the highest level,next down is expert,next is really great,than very good,than good,,at no level are you ever really satisfied.remember,sometimes you don't have to be the best,just the best till the best comes around....

TheOne-N-OnlyHomer

Jul-26-2015, 6:55pm

:grin:

Relio

Jul-26-2015, 10:49pm

2 years

Mark Wilson

Jul-27-2015, 7:43am

Just curious how long it took everyone to get "good" or at least play somewhat okay.I'm guessing there's a wide range of opinion on what 'getting good' or 'playing somewhat ok' means because a new players' goals, expectations, and musical background varies so much.

For years, I played bass in a band with some pretty good pickers so the sound in my head is a lot of work and a ways off yet.

But.. 2 years of steady playing and practice and my average practice speed has increased to 'somewhat ok' and my playing speed sounds pretty musical. I'm still shakey playing along with others but have just reached the point where I can take a break on a few songs at jam speeds.

*my practice speed is the speed that I can play and have a tick and not miss a beat or drop a measure. My playing speed is higher, but recovering at that speed is a bit shakey.

Shelagh Moore

Jul-27-2015, 7:52am

45 years so far because my idea of "good" is constantly evolving!

Joey Anchors

Jul-27-2015, 8:16am

I'll let you know..

objectsession

Jul-27-2015, 10:05am

But.. 2 years of steady playing and practice and my average practice speed has increased to 'somewhat ok' and my playing speed sounds pretty musical. I'm still shakey playing along with others but have just reached the point where I can take a break on a few songs at jam speeds.

I think that's a good reference of "good" from a beginner perspective: how long does it take before you can comfortably play along with a bluegrass jam in public (that is, with potential audience)? Or a slow ITM session. Or maybe a local mandolin orchestra. At least, I'm curious to know that.

DataNick

Jul-27-2015, 8:07pm

As others have pointed out, good is relative. I've been playing for 4 years, professionally for almost 3 years. I don't consider myself good, but I prefer to measure my playing in terms of competency. Yes, I am competent as a professional bluegrass mandolinist; but there are waaaaay too many hot shots out there to consider myself good. I use this analogy:

A competent cabbie can drive an automobile at fast speeds, make all the necessary tight turns, weave in and out of traffic, and might even be impressive in getting you to the airport in a crunch. But compared to a NASCAR driver, a hack cabbie? Please!

I'm just a hack...a competent one, but a hack nonetheless, LOL!...but I am having great fun playing the mandolin, and after all, isn't that what it's all about?

Mandoleisure

Jul-27-2015, 8:13pm

I've got just under a year until the next Fathers Day Bluegrass Festival in Grass Valley, Ca. I'm just a beginner but the gang I met last time are so awesome, jammin' til 4am or so. That experience is something else! So I'm working on my chops and licks but I have yet to learn the individual songs. It will come. My sis's bf is sending me a package of wonderful stuff to learn, primarily about tunes they play in their private jams. And there are tons. Good stuff!!! Ooops did I go off track of thread. Just excited I guess....

journeybear

Jul-28-2015, 12:08am

I'll let you know if I ever get there. ;)

Sometimes someone asks me, "How long have you been playing the mandolin?" My stock answer changes with time (naturally), but this year it's, "47 years. I figure if I stick with it, I'll get good someday." :grin:

Now, I know it's all good and well to be humble - so they say, though I wonder - and while this sounds like I'm kidding, I have to remember that the person asking me this is doing so because my playing impressed him/her enough to compel him/her to come up and talk to me. And even though I may have just played really well in his/her estimation, I am still recalling all the mistakes I made during the show, even the ones no one probably noticed. So I have to take compliments with a grain of salt, yet also have the grace not to be overly critical. Doing that might well belittle his/her feelings about his/her powers of perception. So I make my little joke, which usually lightens the mood, and hope he/she gets it. ;)

Dungbeetle

Jul-28-2015, 3:37am

Good? Hmm. As others have said 'good' is relative. If, like me, you have a natural tendency to self-assassination you will always let doubt get in the way of true self-appraisal. If, one the other hand (also like me) you are just playing for the love of playing and the sheer joy of making music, then what the hell...who cares whether it is 'good' or not (unless you're the poor bugger that has to listen to me!).

Different people have different expectations and levels of acceptance; one man's 'good' is another man's 'what the......?'.

Somedays I play stuff that makes me go 'whoa!' and it feels so natural that I am actually 'listening' to myself, rather than just playing. Other days it feels like the first time I've ever seen one of these things with strings and twiddly bits and things on.

I think it is incredibly helpful to record what you are doing (it's free and easy these days), because there are times when what I 'hear' isn't always what I just played. Just don't beat yourself up over your shortcomings.

In the end, I am 'good' because I enjoy what I am doing. It sounds nice, it feels great and that's why I do it, and that's why I always want to learn more and play better. Thats's my idea of 'good'.

Ultimately, it's supposed to be FUN. Have plenty of that and the rest can take care of itself...

mandocrucian

Jul-28-2015, 8:11am

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jGno09BIoqk/T2Nkp7SkmiI/AAAAAAAAAoE/7Kwn46xEnLc/s1600/Are-We-There-Yet.jpg

http://mypartyshirt.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/300x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/i/file_12_12.jpg

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/HPM/SM901~Are-We-There-Yet-Posters.jpg

mmukav

Jul-28-2015, 10:02am

Well .... it takes as long as it takes ......

I agree.

I taught beginner guitar for several years. I had over 80 students at one point, adults, teens, kids. They all progressed at different speeds. There were several factors in their development as I saw it. One was innate ability. I call it 'guitar hands'. How good they were with their hands. How they picked up proper fretting, left and right hand technique, etc.

Next is drive. How driven were they to learn. Did they practice a lot? Did they want to get better? Some people do it as a hobby, want to just play a few chords and that's it.

Everyone is different, you'll advance at the pace that you let yourself advance. Practice 4 hours a day for a few months, see how well you do. Not everyone will/can do that, but I'll guarantee that if you have any talent, you'll move along quickly. Work on it only 30 minutes here and there, it'll go slowly.

Talent and drive, I'd say they are the most important factors. Just my 2cts.;)

k0k0peli

Jul-28-2015, 1:44pm

Sometimes someone asks me, "How long have you been playing the mandolin?" My stock answer changes with time (naturally), but this year it's, "47 years. I figure if I stick with it, I'll get good someday." :grin:
Olde West humor: A grizzled one-blanket prospector (maybe Shorty Harris) was testifying in court. He was asked how long he'd been a gold prospector. "Nigh on 30 years," was his reply.

Opposing counsel, after other questions, asked, "How long have you been looking for gold?" and Shorty's response was, "a good five years". The lawyer pounced on the discrepancy. "How do you explain these contradictory answers? Come on, was it five years, or thirty?"

"Both, consarn you!" Shorty stormed. "I said I've been a prospector for thirty years, and that is the absolute truth. I said I've been looking for gold for five years, and that's also the truth. The rest of the time I spent chasing my blasted burros!"

Substitute "mandolin player" for prospector, and "playing mandolin" for seeking gold, and "changing strings and tuning" for chasing burros, and that's me. ;)

Lord of the Badgers

Jul-28-2015, 1:59pm

Do what I do, buy too many odd instruments and never get time to get really good at any of them! :)

k0k0peli

Jul-28-2015, 9:46pm

Do what I do, buy too many odd instruments and never get time to get really good at any of them! :) Story of my life. Will I *ever* internalize the Puerto Rican cuatro's BEADG tuning?

catmandu2

Jul-29-2015, 6:56am

Story of my life. Will I *ever* internalize the Puerto Rican cuatro's BEADG tuning?

4ths - just a portion of guitar (standard tuned) capoed at the 7th fret ..

EdHanrahan

Jul-29-2015, 7:10am

Started playing guitar in '63. By '65, I was in a startup rock band and my definition of a "good" player was somebody who's doing something that I don't easily recognize by sight & ear combined. In 2015, my definition of a "good" player is still the same.

JeffD

Jul-29-2015, 7:22am

it's always frustrating when you realize you're nowhere near as far along as you thought you were, then again I guess if we we're ever happy with where we're at we'd quit trying wouldn't we?

I have wrestled with this for years and years and will wrestle with this for years to come. It all depends, of course, what "good" means, what our goals are. And that is also a subject I have chewed on. What goals? (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/entry.php?802-Goals-and-Aspirations-and-Focusing-my-Perspiration)

Denny Gies

Jul-29-2015, 7:43am

It's the same for me as for a lot of posters; I still can't do all I want to do and have been pickin' for 40 some years. But, it remains the most rewarding and fun thing I do. Keep at it.

k0k0peli

Jul-29-2015, 7:49am

4ths - just a portion of guitar (standard tuned) capoed at the 7th fret .. Quite so, but I still must overcome a half-century of 44434 conditioning when approaching a 4444 fretboard. I find it easier to keep my 5ths fingerings distinct from my ingrained guitar habits -- the straight 4ths are *almost* but not quite what my fingers expect. The trick is to internalize the movements, to make the transitions automatic. I know: practice, practice, practice...

It's a process of mental mapping. That's good; a large portion of the human brain is devoted to mapping and I haven't totally burnt-out mine yet. So I have this old, embedded map of a standard guitar fretboard hanging before my mind's eye, alongside maps of variant open tunings. Hanging nearby are faded mental maps of dulcimer and 5-string banjo tunings. Up closer is my creaky mando map with a strong overlay of Irish GDAD tuning -- except it's CGDG on the mandola. My 'ukulele maps are tricky because they still feel like guitar maps even though I *know* they're a 5th off. I just haven't internalized that reality yet.

Then there are my mouth-organ mental maps, with Richter-vs-solo-vs-scale diatonic tunings, and solo-vs-Richter 'chromatic' tunings. And maps for single and double ocarinas, and clarinet-vs-recorder-vs-flageolet, and other stuff members here probably don't care about. My head is cluttered with mental maps. The challenge: pulling up the right map at the right time.

catmandu2

Jul-29-2015, 8:29am

I used to go crazy trying to remember all the tunings I liked to play - and that was just on guitar and banjo! Since then many more have come around - including harps with "sister"-tuning, archaic free-reed systems, what all .. Naturally, with time and exposure, things increasingly begin to look more alike (the David Lindley adage - it's all just a guitar [paraphr.] - is an efficacious model for me). Seems like every instrument - even among families - has a subtle difference, but they're more similar than dissimilar -

I once thought that I'd better develop some type of graphic document - a compendium to enable me to organize everything. I find that the music itself (and perhaps certain orientation) helps keep things organized for me -

catmandu2

Jul-29-2015, 8:39am

It's all a process; and I hope you enjoy yours ... Play the instrument, and it will reveal itself to you; I think you might enjoy that. ~o)

+1

k0k0peli

Jul-29-2015, 4:52pm

I used to go crazy trying to remember all the tunings I liked to play - and that was just on guitar and banjo! I cheat. I put stickers on each headstock telling me that axe's stringing/tuning. Not on standard guitars -- I remember EADGBE just fine after 50 years, and I pretty much have the straight mando's GDAE down pat after 30 on-off years. But I need to remind myself what's in Irish tuning, or straight 3rds or 4ths, or multiple drones. I even gave that up with the fretless Cümbüş o'ud -- I just tune to something comfortable and slide around. Maybe I need to simplify with a one-string instrument.

Naturally, with time and exposure, things increasingly begin to look more alike (the David Lindley adage - it's all just a guitar [paraphr.] - is an efficacious model for me). Seems like every instrument - even among families - has a subtle difference, but they're more similar than dissimilar Ah, but a 'subtle' difference like GDAE vs GDAD or EADGBE vs EADGCF can play havoc with muscle memory. And after I fix a cheap flattop Russian oval-mouth mando (the neck needs gluing) I plan to tune it as a chromatic dulcimer (dulcitar, really). That'll be a whole 'nother thang, yah? Look like one axe, play totally like another.

I once thought that I'd better develop some type of graphic document - a compendium to enable me to organize everything. I find that the music itself (and perhaps certain orientation) helps keep things organized for me I visualize a big chart, a maze actually, depicting my current armory of 124 string, wind, percussion, and electronic instruments, with a big YOU ARE HERE arrow pointing at the flyspeck that is me-self. But I would be a moving target. Guess it should be an animated GIF.

How to organize everything? I use spreadsheets with pages for instruments, tunings, string inventory, miscelleny. But I can't begin to catalog my sheet music and library, even the portion I'm not donating to a local school music department. (I'll never again need to read Harry Partch, or Rimsky on orchestration, or Debussy on harmony.) There's too much crud in my head to depend on mental-mapping all that stuff.

ObTopic: It doesn't take long to become 'good' enough to strum something. Advancing beyond that can be an infinite voyage. I'm musically tolerable on some things and far from good most everywhere else. Oh well, the only perfection comes with death, and I'm in no hurry.

catmandu2

Jul-29-2015, 7:56pm

Ah, but a 'subtle' difference ... can play havoc with muscle memory.

It can, and will. Here's where weening ourselves from the muscle memory can really help. Harmonically (theoretically), there's just not a great deal of difference between say a guitar and a cuatro, charango, banjo, or what have we.. I'm more conceiving of the fingerboard/tuning/temperament as an incidental aspect - and the physiognomy (and sound/deploymernt) of the instrument is where the essential differences are. IOW, the technical fingering of the instrument is the easy part (what we all start with and perhaps become more or less "dependent" on - chord shapes, scales, patterns etc in a familiar tuning/temperament); the real challenges for me are the stylistic and idiomatic deployment of the instrument: for example, a charango has some very idiomatic playing techniques - particularly with the right hand - as typically deployed in trad forms, while the fingering is essentially a double-course uke, etc. Same with a bass guitar - to a guitar, or banjo ... all just a "guitar" in the left hand.. It's one reason why music educators find it relatively easy to play ALL the orchestral strings, or woodwinds, or brass, etc.. Acquiring the technique/mechanics (of harmony - i.e., fingering the thing) is pretty straightforward procedure (given that we practice a lot ;) ), and the real challenge is in playing the thing (style, expression ..). While I play much of the same music on some instruments (ITM, blues, etc), some instruments I play only certain styles and repertoire ... so when I pick up an instrument, I'm thinking music and less - now, what was that pattern..? Maybe it's just immersing oneself in the idiom and the instrument sufficiently..

Anyway, this can relate to a "how long?.." thread - it involves a different type of approach and mastery ..

catmandu2

Jul-29-2015, 11:46pm

Anyway, it's just how I experience it - others have as efficacious methods.

Btw, my post above mentioning that m. educators rel easily play all the orch/band instruments of a family .. someone will no doubt point out that - "able to technically execute the basics of each instrument" may not amount to "proficiency or plays" - they as everyone have instruments of concentration, etc. I chose the wrong word there - just to clarify before someone gets excited ..

TheOne-N-OnlyHomer

Jul-30-2015, 7:32am

I agree.

I taught beginner guitar for several years. I had over 80 students at one point, adults, teens, kids. They all progressed at different speeds. There were several factors in their development as I saw it. One was innate ability. I call it 'guitar hands'. How good they were with their hands. How they picked up proper fretting, left and right hand technique, etc.

Next is drive. How driven were they to learn. Did they practice a lot? Did they want to get better? Some people do it as a hobby, want to just play a few chords and that's it.

Everyone is different, you'll advance at the pace that you let yourself advance. Practice 4 hours a day for a few months, see how well you do. Not everyone will/can do that, but I'll guarantee that if you have any talent, you'll move along quickly. Work on it only 30 minutes here and there, it'll go slowly.

Talent and drive, I'd say they are the most important factors. Just my 2cts.;)

4 hours a day?:disbelief: Hell I thought I was dedicated by practicing/playing 30 mins a day with frequent forays of playing a couple hours a day, lol. I'd say on average I play and hour and a half a day and make myself play at LEAST 30 mins a day even if I don't really feel like it or have to but that's rare I usually play at least an hour or two a day.

journeybear

Jul-30-2015, 8:18am

Well, I think about music at least two hours a day, sometimes as much as four, maybe more. Does that count? :confused: To some extent, I say yes. Training your mind to align in such a way as to think musically, so as to minimize or even eliminate the distance between thought and action, is important. It's often stated in interviews with musicians that they feel most successful about their playing when they can play the music they hear in their head. More of this is mental than one might think. (Yes, I said that.) One has to embrace the mental as well as physical aspects of playing music. Of course, the more you play the easier this should become. But somewhere along the line one must pay attention to the thought processes involved. When you get to where you can picture in your mind how you would physically play what is running through your head, you'll feel pretty good about how well you understand how the two interrelate.

TheOne-N-OnlyHomer

Jul-30-2015, 12:36pm

journeybear, I'd say your statement pretty accurately sums up what my current definition of "good" is. I'm at the point now where I can hear it in my head but can't actuate it on my mandolin lol. I want to play Mandolin, I love Bluegrass music but don't want to be limited solely to that, I'd take just as much pleasure in being able to play contemporary music on the Mando as well, has anyone heard Grissman's cover of "Hot for Teacher"? haha

JeffD

Jul-30-2015, 1:37pm

The hobby of mandolinning consists of practicing, long eons of practicing punctuated by occasional brief slices of time spent playing. I mean, other than changing strings, tuning up, repair, there is only practice and sometimes playing.

This (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/entry.php?859-What-does-one-do-with-a-mandolin).

Jeffff

Jul-30-2015, 7:13pm

^ That.

I will add that "good" can only be measured by your pleasure in playing.

ETA, But I too am a fly fisherman. That may skew things.

JeffD

Jul-30-2015, 7:16pm

Actually I would be dead in the water if I only enjoyed the playing. I have to like the practicing too. And I do mostly. Sometimes I fee like "oh lets get on with it", but I do like getting behind the mandolin and making sounds come out the front, no matter.

Jeffff

Jul-30-2015, 7:22pm

We all must find our own path. Without pleasure, whether from practice, playing, or just sounds. Each has it's own reward.

I have been playing the bass exclusively for months now. Last week I opened the mando case, picked it up, played, and GRINNED.

Life was good.

So are small mouth bass.

journeybear

Jul-30-2015, 7:37pm

I'm sorry - what's a small mouth bass? Is that like an oval hole mandolin? :confused: I thought it was customary for a bass to have f holes? :confused:

Jeffff

Jul-30-2015, 8:36pm

:grin:

Bertram Henze

Jul-31-2015, 12:35am

I'm sorry - what's a small mouth bass? Is that like an oval hole mandolin? :confused: I thought it was customary for a bass to have f holes? :confused:

It's a fish. Fish have oval holes in the front, but f holes in both sides...

Petrus

Jul-31-2015, 6:24am

I stopped calling it "practicing"; now I only play the dang thing, even though technically I may mostly be practicing. Somehow playing is a lot more fun than practicing even if you're doing mostly the same things.

Music is a lot like learning a new vocal language. Once you can internalize the fact that it is a language and that it is fundamentally very similar to a spoken language I think you'll "level up" to a new plateau in your mandolinmanship. You start thinking in musical phrases, emphases, sentences and so forth.

I play along with the radio when our local jazz station plays its standard three hour block of actual jazz a few nights a week (in between endless hours of NPR blathering about important stuff like cultivating daffodils in Lebanon or whatever) and find that it's much more important to catch the rhythm than the specific pitches. If you can get into the swing you can keep going and the notes will often straighten themselves out.

Emmett Marshall

Jul-31-2015, 4:40pm

If playing your mandolin makes you feel fantastic, then you're a fantastic player in my book. It's just a matter of practice and time before your fingers and right hand catch up with how fantastic you are! :mandosmiley:

John Flynn

Jul-31-2015, 5:17pm

I am coming up on 25 years of playing mandolin after about 20 years playing the guitar. Being "good" is a complex topic. I performed in public successfully and felt good about it the first week I had a mandolin. I was just playing rhythm like it was a little guitar and I thought is sounded great! But I went decades feeling I was not very good. Now I feel that I am coming into my own, but I had to accept something about myself to feel that way.

Here's the thing: Very few players are just "good" across the board. Mike Marshall, Chris Thile, etc. If that's your definition of good, be prepared to always be frustrated unless you are a very special person. I tried a lot of stuff I was really awful at, such as Classical, Jazz and Irish Trad. I tried stuff I got good at, but got bored with and lost my repertoire, like Bluegrass, Old-time and Rock. What I finally realized, and this revelation may only apply to me, is that I had to accept what kind of music really motivates me, practice the heck out of it and enjoy being good at it, without worrying about why I'm not good at all the other stuff.

So for me it's Contemporary Christian music. I play with a very good ensemble at church every Sunday. I really enjoy it, I'm really good at it, and people give me compliments on my playing all the time. I consider myself lucky to have gotten "good" at one thing in music. So find that for yourself, even if it is "17th Century Serbo Croatian Wedding Marches" and play the heck out of it!

journeybear

Jul-31-2015, 6:11pm

It's a fish. Fish have oval holes in the front, but f holes in both sides...

Took you a little while, but you got it. Well done! :mandosmiley:

TheOne-N-OnlyHomer

Aug-01-2015, 1:31pm

Stacey Morris

Aug-01-2015, 4:21pm

Life was good.

So are small mouth bass.

You got that right! Here in Arkansas, we have really great small mouth fishing in the Ozarks. Trout too. I am a newbie on Mandolin, but have been catching trout and small mouth (and large mouth) on flies for a pretty long time. People who don't fly fish don't realize what they are missing :). That is good, though, as it might get pretty crowded on the river if they knew.

It definitely makes you feel like life is good when they are really hitting.

Purdy Bear

Aug-29-2015, 12:59pm

As one teacher told me many years ago, some people are concert pianist, others just play the piano. I hope I have a relationship with the Mandolin and Uke for the remainder of my years here, and you never know in the next as well.

As I'm a complete novice with the Mandolin, I can only say from the flute, which took 5 years just to get sort of decent. I just hope to get a decent tune to sound like it should by that time with the string instruments I'm learning now.

Ddd

Aug-29-2015, 3:03pm

After a year and a half, I have become the best mandolin player (in my house).

Phil Goodson

Aug-30-2015, 11:20am

In the spirit of the question that was asked, and without philosophy, I'll tell you my experience.
Started mandolin at age 56 after simply strumming guitar for 40 years (no flatpicking).

Two, three, or four hours per day I'd spend picking and trying to learn, using internet stuff, a few DVDs, an occasional lesson with a local teacher. I started jamming in the back row and softly chopping chords as others played after maybe 3-4 months of mandolin experience. Mostly bluegrass or old country music. Felt comfortable with playing rhythm pretty quickly.

At about the 4th year, I started to feel 'ok' with trying a break on songs that I'd heard often but had never 'prepared' a break for.
At that point, my learning seemed to speed up a little in terms of gaining more skills more quickly than previously.

It's now been about a decade of mandolin, and I feel comfortable surviving breaks when playing with others. I'm seldom really proud of a break, although occasionally something approaching magic happens. Then doesn't happen again for a while.

It's still high on my list of 'most fun' things I do!:)

k0k0peli

Aug-30-2015, 12:52pm

In retrospect, I think that when I began playing guitar so very long ago, I should have been locked in a closet for the first two years. How long should y'all have been shut away (so nobody else had to hear you) when you started on mandolin?

journeybear

Aug-30-2015, 3:23pm

I'll let you know if I ever get the "All clear" sign. :whistling:

Mark Wilson

Aug-30-2015, 8:20pm

How long should y'all have been shut away (so nobody else had to hear you) when you started on mandolin?2 years is about right imo unless you're coming in from a high level on another lead instrument.

I have finally found a couple pickers at my level for practice sessions and if I had found that after 6 months I would be a far better picker now.

journeybear

Aug-30-2015, 9:08pm

Thing is, I had no one to play with when i was starting out. A couple friends played guitar, and i actually had a bass before the mandolin, but it's not like I was any good on it. Nor was I anywhere near ready to play mandolin with anyone else for a long time. Not by any serious standards, anyway. And I certainly was way too shy to try, either. I spent a lot of time in the field across the street from my house, where I wouldn't bother anyone, nor would anyone bother me. This didn't stop me from doing solitary things, mind you, such as learning songs and even writing song, but plying with others? That would have to wait.

Two years in, after high school, I found myself in a small town in Marin County. I was still banging away, in my own way, and maybe some people thought I was pretty good. I didn't, though, even though I didn't have much to compare myself to. "Maggie May" was still a year away, so very few people knew what a mandolin was. I got away with a lot of what I was doing because it was so different, no one knew how to judge it. Still I didn't feel confident in my ability. I met Paul Kantner and Grace Slick, who were living there at the time, but I was not ready to do anything with this bit of fortune. I had written some decent songs, but I had doubts of their being able to interest them. Even so, it was really cool to be in the room where they were recording what would become "Blows Against The Empire."

Three years in, my first year at college, I joined a folk dance group. The established approach was to dance along to records - Balkan and Israeli music, mostly. Somehow I got together with one of the other members, who played guitar, and added live music o the mix. This made our presentations more interesting to others. This was a pretty easy field to get into - tricky time signatures, some of them, but all I had to do was learn the tunes note for note. A little later I got asked to join a bluegrass group. I didn't know much about it, but I learned. I'm sure we were pretty ragged.

It really wasn't until I was nine or ten years in that I began to feel I was any good. That was the summer I spent in Boulder, busking on Pearl Street. There was a pick-up bluegrass band I got friendly with. I devised a way to get them to let me play with them. I figured, if I could get good at faking it, I would get to play along with people who were better than me, long enough to learn more. That worked.

roysboy

Aug-31-2015, 12:00am

Just curious how long it took everyone to get "good" or at least play somewhat okay. I've been playing for about a year and a half now but just started taking real lessons. I've kind of had to start over to get my technique in line but I think it's paying off, but it's always frustrating when you realize you're nowhere near as far along as you thought you were, then again I guess if we we're ever happy with where we're at we'd quit trying wouldn't we?

I've been playing about 4 years . I've pretty much accepted that mandolin is NOT my instrument . I play daily..at least 45 minutes or more but after all of this time I've seen relatively little improvement in my abilities . I still struggle with technique , speed , playing solid solos and playing clean . It just doesn't come together like guitar or drums came together for me . Some things are just natural , I think . For me mandolin isn't .
BUT saying this , I absolutely LOVE the sound of the instrument in the right hands and LOVE practicing and , more recently , doing gigs with it . Its my go-to fun-time musical diversion hands down . I rarely pick up my guitar . I look forward to spending time each evening after work with my mandolin and , in fact , its even MORE enjoyable having accepted that I will be less capable on it than I once had hoped . I knew early on that I had no mechanical aptitude when it came to repairing my vehicles , but I LOVE driving them . Its like there's no stress now . I just completely enjoy the company of my mandolin .

objectsession

Aug-31-2015, 12:34am

I've been playing about 4 years . I've pretty much accepted that mandolin is NOT my instrument

. . .

BUT saying this , I absolutely LOVE the sound of the instrument in the right hands and LOVE practicing and , more recently , doing gigs with it . Its my go-to fun-time musical diversion hands down . I rarely pick up my guitar . I look forward to spending time each evening after work with my mandolin and , in fact , its even MORE enjoyable having accepted that I will be less capable on it than I once had hoped .

I know what you're saying, but . . . it sounds like the mandolin *is* your instrument!

Knowing your ability is a kind of expertise, too, isn't it?

metrognome

Aug-31-2015, 2:59am

I'm glad that "somewhat ok" is a choice! It took me about 6 months to get somewhat ok (after many years of being somewhat ok on guitar). I don't know how long the dwell period last to reach a vision of "good" but "somewhat ok" on mandolin has been and continues to be very beneficial and enjoyable for me!

The main thing is to realize that there is not enough time in anyone's lifetime to learn and do everything that can be done with an instrument, so the main thing is to go with it where the music in your soul leads you.

fatt-dad

Aug-31-2015, 7:31am

if you have to ask, you can't afford it.

f-d

JeffD

Aug-31-2015, 7:56am

How long should y'all have been shut away (so nobody else had to hear you) when you started on mandolin?

I am not sure if there is a shut away period for mandolin. I mean even now there are tunes I should not even try in public, but there has always been something useful I could do on the thing, or at least something inoffensive.

Contrast this with the fiddle. On mandolin you can make nice sounds as soon as you are tuned up. On fiddle you can't make nice sounds for a long time. I think, all things being equal, the sequester period for a fiddle is at least a year. I still offend myself on that thing.